Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Jim Spaza"
Date:	10 Jun 2005 04:20:04 PM
Object:	Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?

This challenge was issued by GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825.
What is wrong with the Christian apologetic website
www.answersingenesis.com ???
Please be courteous and specific.
.

User: "Cary Kittrell"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	14 Jun 2005 04:49:05 PM

In article <1118784613.350915.120200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes:

Cary Kittrell wrote:

In article <1118781112.983966.252200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes:

Cary Kittrell wrote:

In article <1118778317.794208.291870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes:

Attila wrote:

On 12 Jun 2005 20:50:37 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118634637.602813.170430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.

Why?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.

Yet you accept some supernatural creature that was created from
nothing and who can create from nothing. Amazing.

Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see.

How did you do these 'tests'?

Example, one of the witchcraft books stated in detail how to make a
pentagram and chant certain spells out loud. It said that X would
happen if Y was done as specified. Well, X didn't happen when Y was
done.

Did you try the mountain-flinging bit Christianity offers? I'd LOVE
to see that one done.

From a safe distance, of course.

Good question.

You are probably referring to:

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have
faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the
fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed,
and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done." - Matthew 21:21

Sure. I tried having faith and asking God for all sorts of things and
powers per my own personal desires. Nothing ever happened.

Then I read this verse:

"And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take
away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou
wilt." - Mark 14:36 (Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane the night before
his execution)

Jesus has all the faith in the world. However, it was all correctly
anchored to God the Father's will, not his own desires.

The bottom line is that we can do nothing on our own, God has all
power, and He will give us the power to do anything that we need to do
in order to obey Him. If it is God's will that I move a mountain using
one spoken word and I have the faith that it will happen, then the
mountain will be moved. If it is not God's will, then the mountain
will remain in place regardless of my faith in God and desire to see it
moved.

Just like a student should never take one or two statements of a
scientific white paper or manual out of context, neither should anyone
studying the Bible.

By the way, this is why those "prosperity" preachers on TV are liars.
God is not some galactic ATM or bank. You cannot just "name it and
claim it". It is not God's will that everyone be materially wealthy,
physically healthly, and emotionally happy. All that will occur in
Heaven.

OK. Fair enough. Although to be honest, this reply does remind me a bit
of the "psychic" who when asked "So if you see-all-know-all-etc-all, how come
you ain't rich?", inevitably answers "I will use my powers only for
good".

That said, thank you for your thoughtful reply.

-- cary

I understand your concerns. Honestly, sometimes I doubt that God
exists. I really do. Sometimes, it seems so unlikely that the God of
the Bible is looking upon us, angels and demons are fighting over our
souls, and everything else in the Bible really is accurate.

I have the evidence of my existence, my experiences (both natural and
supernatural), and the experiences of others. Yet, I want concrete,
scientific proof too. It's not as if the atheistic scientists who post
in here are the only ones who would like to see proof of God.

And I know that there will be answers to skeptics' questions which seem
just too convenient. I can't help that. I guess all I really know for
absolute certainty is the kind of man I was before accepting Jesus as
Lord and the kind of man that I am now.

Thanks for keeping this thread civil. Even though we may disagree
about everything, we can still talk back and forth with respect.

Indeed. And your candor is appreciated.
-- cary
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	14 Jun 2005 03:21:16 PM

On 14 Jun 2005 12:45:17 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118778317.794208.291870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 12 Jun 2005 20:50:37 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118634637.602813.170430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.

Why?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

Yet you accept some supernatural creature that was created from
nothing and who can create from nothing. Amazing.

Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see.

How did you do these 'tests'?

How did you test other religions? Your own?

The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.

In your opinion. Which does not matter to anyone else.

That's a little arrogant, don't you think?

Not based on your comments here.

Maybe my experiences just
might matter to someone else. Perhaps they do not matter to you; but,
who are you to declare that no one else would take any interest? Do
you speak for anyone other than yourself?

Nope. I simply point out facts.

Either you are having an emotional, non-logical reaction to my posts or
you really do know, in absolute terms, what everyone else is thinking.
If you are opposed to what I say for emotional reasons, then please
understand that we're just talking here. It's not that big a deal.

I am opposed to your position because of the statements you have made
in the past.

And that was before I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. Then, the
supernatural things began to happen.

Talk about mental conditioning!

No. It is mental conditioning when one has been trained to think of
and see materials and concepts only through the tinted glasses of
testable, provable science and NOTHING more.

What else is there? Remember, verification and repeatable results are
a must.

It is mental conditioning
which restricts all imagination, investigation, and inquiry to that
which can fit under a microscope...a microscope made by limited,
fallible human hands and designed by limited, fallible humans minds.

Which is better than accepting as valid that which as not been proven.
.

User: "Jim Spaza"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	14 Jun 2005 03:41:12 PM

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 12:45:17 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118778317.794208.291870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 12 Jun 2005 20:50:37 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118634637.602813.170430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.

Why?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

Yet you accept some supernatural creature that was created from
nothing and who can create from nothing. Amazing.

Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see.

How did you do these 'tests'?

How did you test other religions? Your own?

Did the religious predictions and promises come true when acted on?
Only Christianity was found to be reliable in that aspect.
"Your own?" My religion at the time was Roman Catholicism, which was
found to be partially reliable. The reliable parts were the one's
based on the Bible. The unreliable ones were the ones based on church
traditions.

The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.

In your opinion. Which does not matter to anyone else.

That's a little arrogant, don't you think?

Not based on your comments here.

Nope. I simply point out facts.

I am opposed to your position because of the statements you have made
in the past.

And that was before I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. Then, the
supernatural things began to happen.

Talk about mental conditioning!

No. It is mental conditioning when one has been trained to think of
and see materials and concepts only through the tinted glasses of
testable, provable science and NOTHING more.

What else is there? Remember, verification and repeatable results are
a must.

I know what you are saying. I guess my level of acceptability and
comfort is much less than yours.

Which is better than accepting as valid that which as not been proven.

Allow me to disagree. Then again, the word "better" is tied to one's
subjective beliefs and desires. Thus, the need for your level of
scientific validation works best for you, at least in your own mind.
So, as far as that aspect is concerned, one could say that you are
doing the right thing.
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	14 Jun 2005 06:35:32 PM

On 14 Jun 2005 13:41:12 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118781672.830906.171760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 12:45:17 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118778317.794208.291870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 12 Jun 2005 20:50:37 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118634637.602813.170430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.

Why?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

Yet you accept some supernatural creature that was created from
nothing and who can create from nothing. Amazing.

Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see.

How did you do these 'tests'?

How did you test other religions? Your own?

Did the religious predictions and promises come true when acted on?
Only Christianity was found to be reliable in that aspect.

Consistently? Can this be repeated by anyone? With the exact same
results? If you do it exactly the same 100 times will you get the
exact same results 100 times?

"Your own?" My religion at the time was Roman Catholicism, which was
found to be partially reliable. The reliable parts were the one's
based on the Bible. The unreliable ones were the ones based on church
traditions.

I lump all of these under christian. The details do not matter.

No. It is mental conditioning when one has been trained to think of
and see materials and concepts only through the tinted glasses of
testable, provable science and NOTHING more.

What else is there? Remember, verification and repeatable results are
a must.

I know what you are saying. I guess my level of acceptability and
comfort is much less than yours.

If you accept any part of religion they are a lot less.

Which is better than accepting as valid that which as not been proven.

And anyone who does less is not correct.
.

User: "Jim Spaza"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	20 Jun 2005 09:12:35 AM

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 13:41:12 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118781672.830906.171760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 12:45:17 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118778317.794208.291870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 12 Jun 2005 20:50:37 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118634637.602813.170430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.

Why?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

Yet you accept some supernatural creature that was created from
nothing and who can create from nothing. Amazing.

Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see.

How did you do these 'tests'?

How did you test other religions? Your own?

Did the religious predictions and promises come true when acted on?
Only Christianity was found to be reliable in that aspect.

Consistently? Can this be repeated by anyone? With the exact same
results? If you do it exactly the same 100 times will you get the
exact same results 100 times?

Yes, consistently. Anyone can repeat this test of the Bible's promises
and will get the same results in general since everyone's life is
different.
If I did the test 100 times, and I have, then the results are the same.

I lump all of these under christian. The details do not matter.

No. It is mental conditioning when one has been trained to think of
and see materials and concepts only through the tinted glasses of
testable, provable science and NOTHING more.

What else is there? Remember, verification and repeatable results are
a must.

I know what you are saying. I guess my level of acceptability and
comfort is much less than yours.

If you accept any part of religion they are a lot less.

Which is better than accepting as valid that which as not been proven.

And anyone who does less is not correct.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	21 Jun 2005 08:55:17 PM

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

Did the religious predictions and promises come true when acted on?
Only Christianity was found to be reliable in that aspect.

Consistently? Can this be repeated by anyone? With the exact same
results? If you do it exactly the same 100 times will you get the
exact same results 100 times?

Yes, consistently. Anyone can repeat this test of the Bible's promises
and will get the same results in general since everyone's life is
different.

If I did the test 100 times, and I have, then the results are the same.

Hmmm. We note that despite the payers of hundreds of millions of
people, Pope John Paul II still died.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Ricky Ticket"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	21 Jun 2005 11:10:31 PM

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:55:17 -0400, Ray Fischer wrote
(in message <d9age4$l7k$1@bolt.sonic.net>):

Hmmm. We note that despite the payers of hundreds of millions of
people, Pope John Paul II still died.

How do you know they were not praying for him to die? :o)
--
"Anytime an inmate escapes, it is justification for deadly force." --Osprey
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	21 Jun 2005 11:30:08 PM

Ricky Ticket <not@given.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote

Hmmm. We note that despite the payers of hundreds of millions of
people, Pope John Paul II still died.

How do you know they were not praying for him to die? :o)

Certainly a possibility, but I assume that the majority of people
either are catholics or don't care. Of the people praying I figure
that most are catholics.
It doesn't seem to have made any discernable difference. Popes still
die, Mother Theresa is still dead.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	23 Jun 2005 08:47:46 PM

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 04:30:08 GMT,

(Ray
Fischer) wrote:

Ricky Ticket <not@given.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote

Hmmm. We note that despite the payers of hundreds of millions of
people, Pope John Paul II still died.

How do you know they were not praying for him to die? :o)

Certainly a possibility, but I assume that the majority of people
either are catholics or don't care. Of the people praying I figure
that most are catholics.

It doesn't seem to have made any discernable difference. Popes still
die, Mother Theresa is still dead.

Still??? But I thought ....
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	21 Jun 2005 10:17:17 PM

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:55:17 GMT,

(Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <d9age4$l7k$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

Did the religious predictions and promises come true when acted on?
Only Christianity was found to be reliable in that aspect.

Consistently? Can this be repeated by anyone? With the exact same
results? If you do it exactly the same 100 times will you get the
exact same results 100 times?

Yes, consistently. Anyone can repeat this test of the Bible's promises
and will get the same results in general since everyone's life is
different.

If I did the test 100 times, and I have, then the results are the same.

Hmmm. We note that despite the payers of hundreds of millions of
people, Pope John Paul II still died.

And there are millions of other examples.
.

User: "Ricky Ticket"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	21 Jun 2005 11:11:21 PM

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:17:17 -0400, Attila wrote
(in message <71mhb15otugl37m78bf53q9697ek0r6ak4@4ax.com>):

Hmmm. We note that despite the payers of hundreds of millions of
people, Pope John Paul II still died.

And there are millions of other examples.

It's all part of gods plan silly. :o)
I just wonder what god is thinking when a busload of 2nd graders goes over a
cliff. :o)
--
"Anytime an inmate escapes, it is justification for deadly force." --Osprey
.

User: "Mark Sebree"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	20 Jun 2005 09:34:27 AM

Jim Spaza wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 13:41:12 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118781672.830906.171760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 12:45:17 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118778317.794208.291870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 12 Jun 2005 20:50:37 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118634637.602813.170430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.

Why?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

Yet you accept some supernatural creature that was created from
nothing and who can create from nothing. Amazing.

Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see.

How did you do these 'tests'?

How did you test other religions? Your own?

Did the religious predictions and promises come true when acted on?
Only Christianity was found to be reliable in that aspect.

Consistently? Can this be repeated by anyone? With the exact same
results? If you do it exactly the same 100 times will you get the
exact same results 100 times?

Yes, consistently. Anyone can repeat this test of the Bible's promises
and will get the same results in general since everyone's life is
different.

If I did the test 100 times, and I have, then the results are the same.

Will those tests work WITHOUT faith and belief in your deity? Could
they also be explained without invoking your deity as an explanation?
Would a Hindu, a Muslim, a Wiccan, and an atheist get the same results
and come up with the same explanations?
If you answer "no" to the first and third questions, and/or "yes" to
the second, then your test is biased and subjective rather than
objective. And I think that it is biased and subjective because the
results are dependent on "faith" in your particular deity, and require
the same interpretation that you use.
Mark Sebree

I lump all of these under christian. The details do not matter.

No. It is mental conditioning when one has been trained to think of
and see materials and concepts only through the tinted glasses of
testable, provable science and NOTHING more.

What else is there? Remember, verification and repeatable results are
a must.

I know what you are saying. I guess my level of acceptability and
comfort is much less than yours.

If you accept any part of religion they are a lot less.

Which is better than accepting as valid that which as not been proven.

And anyone who does less is not correct.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	20 Jun 2005 02:20:41 PM

On 20 Jun 2005 07:12:35 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1119276755.019350.167580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 13:41:12 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118781672.830906.171760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 12:45:17 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118778317.794208.291870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 12 Jun 2005 20:50:37 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118634637.602813.170430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.

Why?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

Yet you accept some supernatural creature that was created from
nothing and who can create from nothing. Amazing.

Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see.

How did you do these 'tests'?

How did you test other religions? Your own?

Did the religious predictions and promises come true when acted on?
Only Christianity was found to be reliable in that aspect.

Consistently? Can this be repeated by anyone? With the exact same
results? If you do it exactly the same 100 times will you get the
exact same results 100 times?

Yes, consistently. Anyone can repeat this test of the Bible's promises
and will get the same results in general since everyone's life is
different.

Not good enough. Results must agree absolutely. In general is not
good enough because that means the results must be 'interpreted' in
order to fit.

If I did the test 100 times, and I have, then the results are the same.

Exactly what test?

I lump all of these under christian. The details do not matter.

No. It is mental conditioning when one has been trained to think of
and see materials and concepts only through the tinted glasses of
testable, provable science and NOTHING more.

What else is there? Remember, verification and repeatable results are
a must.

I know what you are saying. I guess my level of acceptability and
comfort is much less than yours.

If you accept any part of religion they are a lot less.

Which is better than accepting as valid that which as not been proven.

And anyone who does less is not correct.

User: "Jim Spaza"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	21 Jun 2005 09:45:48 PM

Attila wrote:

On 20 Jun 2005 07:12:35 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1119276755.019350.167580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 13:41:12 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118781672.830906.171760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 14 Jun 2005 12:45:17 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118778317.794208.291870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 12 Jun 2005 20:50:37 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1118634637.602813.170430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.

Why?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

Yet you accept some supernatural creature that was created from
nothing and who can create from nothing. Amazing.

Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see.

How did you do these 'tests'?

How did you test other religions? Your own?

Did the religious predictions and promises come true when acted on?
Only Christianity was found to be reliable in that aspect.

Consistently? Can this be repeated by anyone? With the exact same
results? If you do it exactly the same 100 times will you get the
exact same results 100 times?

Yes, consistently. Anyone can repeat this test of the Bible's promises
and will get the same results in general since everyone's life is
different.

Not good enough. Results must agree absolutely. In general is not
good enough because that means the results must be 'interpreted' in
order to fit.

Well, if everyone were to engineer their life exactly the same, then
the results would be exactly the same...if God's will was like that of
a computer.
I know that this answer will in no way suffice and may actually confuse
rather than help. Therefore, let me use an example if I can of how the
Bible says that God interacts with people.
Let's take two men who both look at pornography, lust after women to
whom they are not married, and abuse their wives. The men want to stop
but the temptations are always too overwhelming. The Bible says that
if these men, regardless of their situation in life, will pray to God
and ask for strength to change, then God will give them the strength
that they need to stop doing all of these things. Man #1 may be given
a revealing dream of what he is doing. Man #2 may be influenced by a
new friend who coincidentally shows up when the man is needing help.
The specifics of how God gives them the strength and how fast things
turn around will usually be different. Yet, they both now seemingly
have the strength to stop. I understand fully that such situations are
not scientifically testable using the same controlled conditions with
peer review, and thus will not be accepted as evidence. Yet, one
cannot deny the results. The process remains a mystery to science but
the results can be seen quite easily.

If I did the test 100 times, and I have, then the results are the same.

Exactly what test?

I'll just use the one to which 99% of men can relate - desire to look
at pornography. Whenever I have an urge to look at pictures of naked
women, I have a choice. I can look, I can try to resist on my own, or
I can pray to God for strength to resist. Obviously, giving in and
looking is not what God intends for any man. Resisting on my own
results in a 25% chance of success and my walking away. Praying to God
for strength ALWAYS results in my being able to easily walk away. It's
like my desires to lust diminish and my mental strength increases
almost immediately upon praying, sometimes even before the prayer to
God is finished. This happens every single time I face this
temptation. Sometimes, when the strength comes on suddenly, I find
myself looking around to see if some angel is behind me. That's how
powerful it is and, to be honest, makes me a little fearful of what is
happening.
This is a test that you too can try in the privacy of your own home.
Next time you are tempted to look at pornography and have the
opportunity to do so (who doesn't with internet access everywhere?),
try praying to God for strength in the Name of Jesus. Try walking away
without praying. Try walking away after praying to God. Of course,
this is bordering on using God as a galactic dispensing machine of
strength without even the basic acknowledgment of His existence.
Try this test, then. This is right from the Bible.
"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty
things, which thou knowest not." - Jeremiah 33:3
If you are even slightly open to the possibility that God could exist
and pray this honestly to the God of the Bible, then God will reveal
Himself to you in some fashion. Be ready. Not sure how God will
reveal Himself? There are hundreds of different examples in the Bible.
I am sorry that such does not lend itself to scientific testing as you
would have it. But, will you not be at least somewhat open to the
existence of material and entities in this universe that are not
scientifically provable right now?
Thank you for your response.

I lump all of these under christian. The details do not matter.

No. It is mental conditioning when one has been trained to think of
and see materials and concepts only through the tinted glasses of
testable, provable science and NOTHING more.

What else is there? Remember, verification and repeatable results are
a must.

I know what you are saying. I guess my level of acceptability and
comfort is much less than yours.

If you accept any part of religion they are a lot less.

Which is better than accepting as valid that which as not been proven.

And anyone who does less is not correct.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	23 Jun 2005 11:29:11 PM

Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

I know that this answer will in no way suffice and may actually confuse
rather than help. Therefore, let me use an example if I can of how the
Bible says that God interacts with people.

Let's take two men who both look at pornography, lust after women to
whom they are not married, and abuse their wives. The men want to stop
but the temptations are always too overwhelming.

Stop what? Beating people? Or looking at naked babes?

The Bible says that
if these men, regardless of their situation in life, will pray to God
and ask for strength to change, then God will give them the strength
that they need to stop doing all of these things.

Unless He doesn't.

If I did the test 1