Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?

Religions > Atheism > Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?

LINK TO THIS PAGE

rating : 0 | 0

Page 64 of 119

Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Jim Spaza"
Date:	10 Jun 2005 04:20:04 PM
Object:	Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?

This challenge was issued by GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825.
What is wrong with the Christian apologetic website
www.answersingenesis.com ???
Please be courteous and specific.
.

User: "655321"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	17 Aug 2005 07:48:59 PM

On 2005-08-17 08:11:00 -0700, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> said:

On 17 Aug 2005 07:56:22 -0700, in talk.origins , "Cyde Weys"
<cyde@umd.edu> in
<1124290582.197776.218470@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

655321 wrote:

On 2005-08-15 20:16:11 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> said:

What is troubling me a little is why snakes and spiders would have
venom and fangs, sharks seemed to be designed perfectly for being a
predator, and some animals teeth designed to puncture not grind. The
more I think about it, the more it seems reasonable that God intended
animals to be vegetarian, but over the years (for some reason) some
evolved into carnivorous life forms. On a theological note, with all
those fallen angels (demons) roaming the earth, I could see them
screwing with the animal kingdom (modifying genetics, if that is
possible for them) and causing God's vegetarian plan to be attacked.

Still loopy after all these months, eh, Spaza?

Ah, so you've been following him around from somewhere? Where else was
this somewhere? If it was on Usenet, I'm surprised it wasn't brought
to talk.origins before.

Fillin' in the biblical cracks with the spackle of speculation, I see.
Guess the Bible kinda shorted you a bit.

It's not his fault the book is millennia old. It IS his fault, though,
that he's trying to integrate its knowledge with current scientific
discoveries. It's not even fair. It's like trying to race a boxcar
against a space shuttle in orbit.

Demons tinkerin' with genetics?

I must admit, that idea is rather funny ... God doesn't come down and
interfere with the affairs of men, but demons sure do! That doesn't
speak well of God.

"Genocide is used sparingly by God in only extreme circumstances." -Jim Spaza

As long as we are on the issue of morality and genocide I have a few
questions, particularly for 655321. What have you done to try to stop
the genocide in the Sudan or the mass starvation in Niger? And what is
your blood donor status?

I deal with these ridiculous questions posting from my Google account
(as dipthot), further down the thread.

Christ he actually said THAT?!

Read it in context. Jim seems to do a better job of directly facing
issues that any of the creationists I have seen.

So, celebrating unapologetically a deity that "uses" genocide is facing
the issue in a good way?
--
GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825 --

"Genocide is used sparingly by God in only extreme circumstances." -Jim Spaza
.

User: "655321"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	17 Aug 2005 10:16:37 AM

On 2005-08-17 07:56:22 -0700, "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> said:

655321 wrote:

On 2005-08-15 20:16:11 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> said:

Still loopy after all these months, eh, Spaza?

Ah, so you've been following him around from somewhere? Where else was
this somewhere? If it was on Usenet, I'm surprised it wasn't brought
to talk.origins before.

He's actually been on alt.atheism for a while. He started this thread
at my urging when I told him I was too lazy to attack the claims on
answersingenesis myself.

Fillin' in the biblical cracks with the spackle of speculation, I see.
Guess the Bible kinda shorted you a bit.

It's not his fault the book is millennia old. It IS his fault, though,
that he's trying to integrate its knowledge with current scientific
discoveries.

Not integrate. He is trying to hammer the round peg of science into
the triangular pinhole of Genesis.
It's not even fair. It's like trying to race a boxcar

against a space shuttle in orbit.

No doubt.
Demons tinkerin' with genetics?

I must admit, that idea is rather funny ... God doesn't come down and
interfere with the affairs of men, but demons sure do! That doesn't
speak well of God.

This god sure is wimpy.
"Genocide is used sparingly by God in only extreme circumstances." -Jim Spaza

Christ he actually said THAT?!

Yup. That was his defense of the genocidal acts sanctioned by his god
in the OT.
--
GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825 --

"Genocide is used sparingly by God in only extreme circumstances." -Jim Spaza
.

User: "Cyde Weys"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	17 Aug 2005 10:28:43 AM

655321 wrote:

On 2005-08-17 07:56:22 -0700, "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> said:

Ah, so you've been following him around from somewhere? Where else was
this somewhere? If it was on Usenet, I'm surprised it wasn't brought
to talk.origins before.

He's actually been on alt.atheism for a while. He started this thread
at my urging when I told him I was too lazy to attack the claims on
answersingenesis myself.

Discussion of creationism versus science does not belong on
alt.atheism. You should have brought it here as quickly as possible;
we're actually used to dealing with it.

It's not his fault the book is millennia old. It IS his fault, though,
that he's trying to integrate its knowledge with current scientific
discoveries.

Not integrate. He is trying to hammer the round peg of science into
the triangular pinhole of Genesis.

Agreed. It is possible to integrate science with religion in general
(i.e. science says nothing about the possibility of a God). When you
try to compare science and specific parts of specific religions such as
Genesis is when you get in trouble.

"Genocide is used sparingly by God in only extreme circumstances." -Jim Spaza

Christ he actually said THAT?!

Yup. That was his defense of the genocidal acts sanctioned by his god
in the OT.

This is very scary to me. Whatever genocide happened in the past was
not a tool of God; it was something horrible that one group of humans
committed upon another. That religion does not recognize this and
instead sanctions it as an act of God is, for lack of a better word,
evil. It's also proof that history is written by the victors, and the
victors in this case were free to write their own account of history,
excuse their genocide by saying that they were on the side of God, and
then have people thousands of years in the future still believe their
*****.
.

User: "Mark VandeWettering"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	15 Aug 2005 11:58:45 PM

["Followup-To:" header set to talk.origins.]
On 2005-08-16, Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Cary Kittrell wrote:

In article <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes:

{...}

TomS wrote:

And, then I'd like to hear something about the ecology of this
new creation -- how the new form of life fares in its environment,
dealing with food, predators, parasites, others of the same kind,
the physical environment. How the new kind manages to survive and
pass on its genes to the next generation. Whether the environment
had to be shaped to fit this new kind, or whether there was a
vacant niche before this appeared.

Just like today, except before Adam and Eve screwed up in the Garden of
Eden, all animals were vegetarian.

Are you envisioning things such that there were, say, lions and snakes,
lions and snakes with the same teeth and digestive tracts as today's
lions and snakes, but eating vegetation?

I honestly do not know exactly what was occurring at the time
concerning the diet of the animals. I am beginning to think that the
teeth and digestive tracts of carnivorous animals were actually put to
good use at that time. I read Genesis 1:29-30 again. It says that it
was God's design for animals to be vegetarian. Now, did those animals
ever deviate from God's will? Perhaps. Maybe these animals'
evolutionary ancestors were vegetarian but became carnivorous over
time. Thus, by the time of Adam and Eve, some animals sometimes ate
meat. I really don't know.

What is troubling me a little is why snakes and spiders would have
venom and fangs, sharks seemed to be designed perfectly for being a
predator, and some animals teeth designed to puncture not grind. The
more I think about it, the more it seems reasonable that God intended
animals to be vegetarian, but over the years (for some reason) some
evolved into carnivorous life forms.

How do these simple animals, without the benefit of consciousness
and free will, work to subvert God's plan for them? Are you saying
that God could not make sharks do what he wished for them? If that
were true, do you think it particularly prudent that God designed
them with a countinously replenishing supply of razor sharp teeth?

On a theological note, with all
those fallen angels (demons) roaming the earth, I could see them
screwing with the animal kingdom (modifying genetics, if that is
possible for them) and causing God's vegetarian plan to be attacked.

Oh, so it is the angels (another one of God's creation) who now have
power over him?
I'd criticize your religion for not making any sense, but that seems
strangely superfluous.
Mark

-- cary

User: "Ernest Major"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	08 Aug 2005 03:44:30 PM

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Just like today, except before Adam and Eve screwed up in the Garden of
Eden, all animals were vegetarian. Without predators, every animal
would flourish. I would think that the animals reproduced much like
today, including how DNA is passed on. I would think that the
environment supported each life much like today. I don't believe that
God would place a group in a habitat that was unsuitable for them.

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: 04/08/2005
.

User: "Jim Spaza"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	15 Aug 2005 09:40:19 PM

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: 04/08/2005

User: "Ernest Major"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	16 Aug 2005 12:55:55 PM

In message <1124160019.089551.276390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

Lots and lots of animals with predatory adaptions.
More directly coprolites containing animal material; fossils with
stomach contents consisting of other animals; fossil shells with holes
drilled by predatory snails; fish fossilised in the act of swallowing
other fish, bones with teeth marks ...
I expect a palaeontologist can give you a few more.
--
alias Ernest Major
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.10/73 - Release Date: 15/08/2005
.

User: "DanielSan"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	15 Aug 2005 10:12:39 PM

Jim Spaza wrote:

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

....evidence of evolution?
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.

User: "Matt Silberstein"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	15 Aug 2005 11:12:48 PM

On 15 Aug 2005 19:40:19 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124160019.089551.276390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

Dinosaurs with T. Rex teeth marks, for example.
--
Matt Silberstein
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
Jim Steinman
.

User: "Nantko Schanssema"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	16 Aug 2005 08:56:54 AM

Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com>:

On 15 Aug 2005 19:40:19 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124160019.089551.276390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ernest Major wrote:

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.

What evidence is that?

Dinosaurs with T. Rex teeth marks, for example.

How about a 500 million year old fossil Ottoia with several
Haplophrentis in its gut:
<http://www.nmnh.si.edu/paleo/shale/pottoia.htm>.
regards,
Nantko
--
FDR calmed a nation when he said, "We have nothing to fear but fear
itself." But the Bush and Blair slogan is, "We have nothing to sell
but fear itself." - Greg Palast
http://www.xs4all.nl/~nantko/
.

User: "Jim Spaza"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	16 Aug 2005 12:14:23 PM

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 15 Aug 2005 19:40:19 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124160019.089551.276390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

Dinosaurs with T. Rex teeth marks, for example.

Good point. Given such evidence, it would be a very flimsy argument
indeed to say that these animals were vegetarian. I can still say that
God originally desired them to be vegetarian and that they didn't turn
out that way as time went along. But, such would be more of a
theological argument and not biological.

--
Matt Silberstein

And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!

Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light

Jim Steinman

Your previous Cheers tagline was better. Sorry that I screwed it for
you.
.

User: "Matt Silberstein"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	16 Aug 2005 12:59:27 PM

On 16 Aug 2005 10:14:23 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124212463.570906.120090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 15 Aug 2005 19:40:19 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124160019.089551.276390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

Dinosaurs with T. Rex teeth marks, for example.

And a pretty dangerous theological one as well. Do animals have the
ability to disobey God? Do animals as well as humans have free will? A
yes answer puts you outside Christianity. Or are you suggesting that
God failed in his desire, that he was unable to make them/keep them
vegetarian? You are building some seriously deep theological traps for
yourself.

And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!

Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light

Jim Steinman

Your previous Cheers tagline was better. Sorry that I screwed it for
you.

No problem, it was too long anyway. I use this one because we saw
Meatloaf in concert last week. Astounding concert, just astounding. 2
hours long with maybe 3 seconds between songs. We were on our feet
singing along for half the songs. *AND WE GOT TO GO BACK STAGE*! It
was astounding. We chatting with the band, including the fabulous Miss
Patricia Russo, and even got to talk a bit with Meat himself. Wow oh
wow oh wow.
--
Matt Silberstein
Will you hold me sacred?
Will you hold me tight?
Can you colorize my life I'm so sick of black and white?
Can you make it all a little less old?
_I would do anything for love_ by Jim Steinman
.

User: "Jim Spaza"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	17 Aug 2005 10:52:37 AM

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 16 Aug 2005 10:14:23 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124212463.570906.120090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 15 Aug 2005 19:40:19 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124160019.089551.276390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

Dinosaurs with T. Rex teeth marks, for example.

Animals, other than purpoises, dolphins, and some whales, have no free
will. They are not conscious; therefore, they cannot obey or disobey.
They just are. I am not sure that the self-aware animals have enough
intelligence still to comprehend a Supreme Being.
I am not saying that God failed at anything, just that God allowed His
creation to deviate from His perfect will. Why? I don't know.
Why did God still create Adam and Eve when He knew trillions of years
before creating them that they would disobey Him and throw the world
into chaos? I don't know. Perhaps, you are the one to whom God would
grant such wisdom if you were to accept Jesus as Lord and ask Him.

Your previous Cheers tagline was better. Sorry that I screwed it for
you.

To play music and sing for that long without ANY kind of break is
impressive. Did the band members act...different or are they just
everyday people like us?

--
Matt Silberstein

Will you hold me sacred?
Will you hold me tight?
Can you colorize my life I'm so sick of black and white?
Can you make it all a little less old?

_I would do anything for love_ by Jim Steinman

User: "Ernest Major"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	17 Aug 2005 12:49:41 PM

In message <1124293957.845813.312460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Point of order; several primate species have been demonstrated to be
self-aware.
--
alias Ernest Major
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.10/73 - Release Date: 15/08/2005
.

User: "AC"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	17 Aug 2005 12:51:35 PM

On 17 Aug 2005 08:52:37 -0700,
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 16 Aug 2005 10:14:23 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124212463.570906.120090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 15 Aug 2005 19:40:19 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124160019.089551.276390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

Dinosaurs with T. Rex teeth marks, for example.

Animals, other than purpoises, dolphins, and some whales, have no free
will.

Huh?

They are not conscious; therefore, they cannot obey or disobey.

Define "conscious" here. What neuron count do we reach before we reach
consciousness? Is a dog conscious? How about a planarian? Just how
substantial must the ganglia be before we call an organism conscious?

They just are. I am not sure that the self-aware animals have enough
intelligence still to comprehend a Supreme Being.

Judging by the odd ways in which humans try to explain supreme beings, I'm
nost sure humans have the capacity.

I am not saying that God failed at anything, just that God allowed His
creation to deviate from His perfect will. Why? I don't know.

This is the problem with literal interpretations of Genesis, at some point
or another you hit either the "holy mystery" or it just looks absurd. It's
a holy mystery to you. To us it's just absurd.

Why did God still create Adam and Eve when He knew trillions of years
before creating them that they would disobey Him and throw the world
into chaos? I don't know. Perhaps, you are the one to whom God would
grant such wisdom if you were to accept Jesus as Lord and ask Him.

Or perhaps the whole notion of an omnipotent, omniscient creator deity is so
filled with paradoxes that one ends up with a lot of handwaving. In any
case, you seem to coming to the point of view that perhaps God is not a
scientific quantity.
<snip>
--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
.

User: "Matt Silberstein"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	17 Aug 2005 11:59:14 AM

On 17 Aug 2005 08:52:37 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124293957.845813.312460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 16 Aug 2005 10:14:23 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124212463.570906.120090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 15 Aug 2005 19:40:19 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124160019.089551.276390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

Dinosaurs with T. Rex teeth marks, for example.

You have better think about this. The normal answer is that he gave
humans free will and then the possibility of salvation. But you are
not proposing that animals lacking free will deviated from God's plan.
I can't see how that is anything but a limitation on God's ability.

Why did God still create Adam and Eve when He knew trillions of years
before creating them that they would disobey Him and throw the world
into chaos?

This is a very different question. This gets us to free will and sin
and salvation and all that. You don't have that out with (other)
animals.

I don't know. Perhaps, you are the one to whom God would
grant such wisdom if you were to accept Jesus as Lord and ask Him.

ROTFLMAO. Sorry, but that is a funny response. I know you don't mean
it that way at all, but it seems like a burden shift and hand wave all
at once.
[snip]

Your previous Cheers tagline was better. Sorry that I screwed it for
you.

To play music and sing for that long without ANY kind of break is
impressive. Did the band members act...different or are they just
everyday people like us?

It was a disturbingly normal scene. Oh so very 'Oughts. A tiny bit of
drinking, but lots of people bringing their little kids by to say
hello. And people sharing baby pictures. And platters of sliced turkey
and veggies. But Miss Patricia Russo (that is how Meatloaf introduces
here and it fits) was elegant and charming and sexy. If I was not
married and was just a bit younger, oh wow!
20 years ago the band and the scene was very different. But evolution
happens. The people that survived have, it seems, mostly given up the
things that kill.
--
Matt Silberstein
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
Jim Steinman
.

User: "Mark VandeWettering"
Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?	17 Aug 2005 11:40:10 AM

["Followup-To:" header set to talk.origins.]
On 2005-08-17, Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 16 Aug 2005 10:14:23 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124212463.570906.120090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On 15 Aug 2005 19:40:19 -0700, in talk.origins , "Jim Spaza"
<spaza9@yahoo.com> in
<1124160019.089551.276390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ernest Major wrote:

In message <1123532572.853084.57840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Jim
Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> writes

Even if you ignore morphology the fossil record contains evidence of
carnivory/predation going back a long long way.
--
alias Ernest Major

What evidence is that?

Dinosaurs with T. Rex teeth marks, for example.

I think it's obvious. Because to accept any other contradictions would
push you beyond a level of self-contradiction that you are comfortable
in trying to accept, however epic the levels you are willing to accept
might be.

Or, perhaps we should just discard the question as absurd.

Your previous Cheers tagline was better. Sorry that I screwed it for
you.

To play music and sing for that long without ANY kind of break is
impressive. Did the band members act...different or are they just
everyday people like us?