| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
03 Oct 2005 04:15:34 PM |
| Object: |
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/science/04cnd-nobel.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9264
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Two Australian scientists who discovered a bacterium that causes
stomach inflammation, ulcers and cancer won the 2005 Nobel Prize for
Physiology or Medicine today.
Nobel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a01dcb7b9f988d2c
A Time For McCain?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100200810.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1791.7205
By Sebastian Mallaby
Monday, October 3, 2005; Page A17
In the 2000 presidential campaign, George W. Bush promised to bring a
tone of probity to Washington. He said this despite having demolished
his honorable rival in the primaries, Sen. John McCain, with the help
of dishonorable slanders. Now that government corruption, as measured
by the number of pork projects enacted, has more than doubled on Bush's
watch, and now that Bush's chief procurement officer and chief
congressional ally have both been indicted, Bush's promise of probity
has become a hollow joke. If there is any justice in the world, McCain
and McCainism should benefit.
The Road to Riches
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/5ba95f4634dec9cd
and thread
The Road to Riches
http://tinyurl.com/55nzo
A Blueprint for the Future
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/59c28cd6dfe6f60f
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
03 Oct 2005 11:36:32 PM |
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maff wrote:
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/science/04cnd-nobel.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9264
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Two Australian scientists who discovered a bacterium that causes
stomach inflammation, ulcers and cancer won the 2005 Nobel Prize for
Physiology or Medicine today.
Nobel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a01dcb7b9f988d2c
....
These guys did do good work, but Nobel Laureate Level? They identified and
comnvinced people that a bacterium causes ulcers. In contrast, the last [ever]
guy to discover the function of an entire *organ* - Jacques Miller who worked
out what the thymus did (generates t-cells) - or his colleague Don Metcalf who
isolated colony stimulating factor, thereby saving the lives, literally, of
tens of millions of cancer patients - fail to get awarded.
Ulcers comparable to these achievements? I think not. The Nobel has become a
shadow of itself.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
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| User: "Simon_24-7" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
04 Oct 2005 11:32:23 AM |
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Seems the laureates share your sentiments:
(from the BBC news website
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4307826.stm)
Mr Warren said he was a "little overcome" by the award.
"It is nice to be officially recognised and it gives some sort of a
stamp of approval, but we believed it within a few months because it
was so bloody obvious," he told reporters.
Mr Marshall said he was shocked.
"I thought it was a new and exciting discovery but I did not believe it
was the type of discovery that one got the Nobel prize for," the
researcher at the University of Western Australia in Nedlands, south of
Perth, said.
Simon
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| User: "Paul J Gans" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
04 Oct 2005 10:32:49 AM |
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In talk.origins John Wilkins <john@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
maff wrote:
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/science/04cnd-nobel.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9264
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Two Australian scientists who discovered a bacterium that causes
stomach inflammation, ulcers and cancer won the 2005 Nobel Prize for
Physiology or Medicine today.
Nobel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a01dcb7b9f988d2c
...
These guys did do good work, but Nobel Laureate Level? They identified and
comnvinced people that a bacterium causes ulcers. In contrast, the last [ever]
guy to discover the function of an entire *organ* - Jacques Miller who worked
out what the thymus did (generates t-cells) - or his colleague Don Metcalf who
isolated colony stimulating factor, thereby saving the lives, literally, of
tens of millions of cancer patients - fail to get awarded.
Ulcers comparable to these achievements? I think not. The Nobel has become a
shadow of itself.
I think that part of the problem is that awards must be
made every year and you have to be alive to collect one.
That means that in years of scarcity of top-quality
attainments they can't even go back and rectify some of
the major omissions of the past.
As for ignoring the thymus, doesn't everyone?
I've not spoken to mine in years.
----- Paul J. Gans
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| User: "VBM" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
04 Oct 2005 10:50:59 AM |
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"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message news:dhu7b1
Gans, it is great to see you here, but I am fearful you will drag Hines
along with you! :0)
So far, this group seems to be blissfully Hines-free, but he follows you
around like a little dog growling ineffectively at your heels.
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| User: "Paul J Gans" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
04 Oct 2005 08:49:49 PM |
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In talk.origins VBM <v.mcalister@nospam.ejgd.com> wrote:
"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message news:dhu7b1
Gans, it is great to see you here, but I am fearful you will drag Hines
along with you! :0)
So far, this group seems to be blissfully Hines-free, but he follows you
around like a little dog growling ineffectively at your heels.
I've been here for over ten years. Here being talk.origins.
He's been here on occasion. It took talk.origins about
four days to drive him away the first time. It's been
even quicker on succeeding visits.
He hardly comes around any more.
---- Paul J. Gans
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| User: "VBM" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
05 Oct 2005 10:20:32 AM |
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"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dhvbft$h0v$2@reader1.panix.com...
In talk.origins VBM <v.mcalister@nospam.ejgd.com> wrote:
"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message news:dhu7b1
Gans, it is great to see you here, but I am fearful you will drag Hines
along with you! :0)
So far, this group seems to be blissfully Hines-free, but he follows you
around like a little dog growling ineffectively at your heels.
I've been here for over ten years. Here being talk.origins.
He's been here on occasion. It took talk.origins about
four days to drive him away the first time. It's been
even quicker on succeeding visits.
He hardly comes around any more.
Ah, good to hear it. Stands to reason that he could not stand up to reason.
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| User: "Paul J Gans" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
05 Oct 2005 11:34:53 AM |
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In talk.origins VBM <v.mcalister@nospam.ejgd.com> wrote:
"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dhvbft$h0v$2@reader1.panix.com...
In talk.origins VBM <v.mcalister@nospam.ejgd.com> wrote:
"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message news:dhu7b1
Gans, it is great to see you here, but I am fearful you will drag Hines
along with you! :0)
So far, this group seems to be blissfully Hines-free, but he follows you
around like a little dog growling ineffectively at your heels.
I've been here for over ten years. Here being talk.origins.
He's been here on occasion. It took talk.origins about
four days to drive him away the first time. It's been
even quicker on succeeding visits.
He hardly comes around any more.
Ah, good to hear it. Stands to reason that he could not stand up to reason.
You've got *that* right!
----- Paul J. Gans
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| User: "Noone Inparticular" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
04 Oct 2005 11:14:16 AM |
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VBM wrote:
"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message news:dhu7b1
Gans, it is great to see you here, but I am fearful you will drag Hines
along with you! :0)
So far, this group seems to be blissfully Hines-free, but he follows you
around like a little dog growling ineffectively at your heels.
Hines? Wade? Surely you jest -anything but ineffective.
Or is this that Spencer nutjob from some medievalist group (name
escapes me)?
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| User: "Paul J Gans" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
04 Oct 2005 08:50:52 PM |
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In talk.origins Noone Inparticular <unreve89@hotmail.com> wrote:
VBM wrote:
"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message news:dhu7b1
Gans, it is great to see you here, but I am fearful you will drag Hines
along with you! :0)
So far, this group seems to be blissfully Hines-free, but he follows you
around like a little dog growling ineffectively at your heels.
Hines? Wade? Surely you jest -anything but ineffective.
Or is this that Spencer nutjob from some medievalist group (name
escapes me)?
The nutjob. Certainly not Wade.
---- Paul J. Gans
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| User: "VBM" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
05 Oct 2005 10:21:05 AM |
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"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dhvbhs$h0v$3@reader1.panix.com...
In talk.origins Noone Inparticular <unreve89@hotmail.com> wrote:
VBM wrote:
"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message news:dhu7b1
Gans, it is great to see you here, but I am fearful you will drag Hines
along with you! :0)
So far, this group seems to be blissfully Hines-free, but he follows
you
around like a little dog growling ineffectively at your heels.
Hines? Wade? Surely you jest -anything but ineffective.
Or is this that Spencer nutjob from some medievalist group (name
escapes me)?
The nutjob. Certainly not Wade.
Yes, yes, sorry about any slight to Wade. I was indeed talking about D.
Spenser Hines.
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| User: "Ron O" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
07 Oct 2005 05:10:15 AM |
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John Wilkins wrote:
maff wrote:
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/science/04cnd-nobel.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9264
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Two Australian scientists who discovered a bacterium that causes
stomach inflammation, ulcers and cancer won the 2005 Nobel Prize for
Physiology or Medicine today.
Nobel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a01dcb7b9f988d2c
...
These guys did do good work, but Nobel Laureate Level? They identified and
comnvinced people that a bacterium causes ulcers. In contrast, the last [ever]
guy to discover the function of an entire *organ* - Jacques Miller who worked
out what the thymus did (generates t-cells) - or his colleague Don Metcalf who
isolated colony stimulating factor, thereby saving the lives, literally, of
tens of millions of cancer patients - fail to get awarded.
Ulcers comparable to these achievements? I think not. The Nobel has become a
shadow of itself.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
Figuring out who gets the award isn't an exact science.;-) In a way
you expect our notions of what is the best "Nobel" caliber science to
take a hit over time. You have to be alive to get the Nobel, and they
limit it to three people in a category when big science requires
hundreds and thousands of people today.
Just limiting the award to living scientists means that pretty soon the
award will basically go to the best science of the year in given
category. How many years go by where nothing extrodinary is
discovered? A lot of interesting stuff is discovered every year, but
Nobel calilber? Limiting it to three people will mean that it will be
limited to small topics or that they will have to short change someone
with a significant contribution. Look at Roslin Franklin, they had to
wait until she died to move forward on the DNA structure award.
Who is going to get the human genome award? The last three guys
surviving that made a significant contribution? Have you ever looked
at author lists on papers today? Journals accept just the first couple
of authors and et al. in the reference section where you had to list
all the authors before.
We all got spoiled by living during a time when amazing things were
being discovered by a handful of people. That isn't the future of
science.
Ron Okimoto
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
04 Oct 2005 07:48:09 AM |
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John Wilkins wrote:
maff wrote:
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/science/04cnd-nobel.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9264
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Two Australian scientists who discovered a bacterium that causes
stomach inflammation, ulcers and cancer won the 2005 Nobel Prize for
Physiology or Medicine today.
Nobel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a01dcb7b9f988d2c
...
These guys did do good work, but Nobel Laureate Level? They identified and
comnvinced people that a bacterium causes ulcers. In contrast, the last [ever]
guy to discover the function of an entire *organ* - Jacques Miller who worked
out what the thymus did (generates t-cells) - or his colleague Don Metcalf who
isolated colony stimulating factor, thereby saving the lives, literally, of
tens of millions of cancer patients - fail to get awarded.
Ulcers comparable to these achievements? I think not. The Nobel has become a
shadow of itself.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
Well, I don't know about saving a -lot- of lives, but my life was
pretty miserable (along with hosptital stays) for bleeding peptic
ulcers until I was placed on a regimem of antibiotics.
Also, note that a bleeding ulcer was the cause of death of my maternal
grandmother. Ulcers can kill.
.
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
04 Oct 2005 09:17:44 AM |
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wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
maff wrote:
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/science/04cnd-nobel.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9264
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Two Australian scientists who discovered a bacterium that causes
stomach inflammation, ulcers and cancer won the 2005 Nobel Prize for
Physiology or Medicine today.
Nobel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a01dcb7b9f988d2c
...
These guys did do good work, but Nobel Laureate Level? They identified and
comnvinced people that a bacterium causes ulcers. In contrast, the last [ever]
guy to discover the function of an entire *organ* - Jacques Miller who worked
out what the thymus did (generates t-cells) - or his colleague Don Metcalf who
isolated colony stimulating factor, thereby saving the lives, literally, of
tens of millions of cancer patients - fail to get awarded.
Ulcers comparable to these achievements? I think not. The Nobel has become a
shadow of itself.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
Well, I don't know about saving a -lot- of lives, but my life was
pretty miserable (along with hosptital stays) for bleeding peptic
ulcers until I was placed on a regimem of antibiotics.
Also, note that a bleeding ulcer was the cause of death of my maternal
grandmother. Ulcers can kill.
I don't deny that - I knew some. But I knew a lot more people who died from
leukaemia (including my best friend at age 5) who would now live because CSF
allows one to harvest stem blood cells from the bone marrow to rescue the
patient after an otherwise fatal dose of chemo. It was estimated that well
over the population of my country owed their lives to Don's years of really
hard, good, science.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
.
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
06 Oct 2005 10:13:12 PM |
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In article <dhu2u7$o59$2@bunyip2.cc.uq.edu.au>,
John Wilkins <john@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
zawadzki@yahoo.com wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
maff wrote:
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/science/04cnd-nobel.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9264
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Two Australian scientists who discovered a bacterium that causes
stomach inflammation, ulcers and cancer won the 2005 Nobel Prize for
Physiology or Medicine today.
Nobel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a01dcb7b9f988d2c
...
These guys did do good work, but Nobel Laureate Level? They identified and
comnvinced people that a bacterium causes ulcers. In contrast, the last
[ever]
guy to discover the function of an entire *organ* - Jacques Miller who
worked
out what the thymus did (generates t-cells) - or his colleague Don Metcalf
who
isolated colony stimulating factor, thereby saving the lives, literally, of
tens of millions of cancer patients - fail to get awarded.
Ulcers comparable to these achievements? I think not. The Nobel has become
a
shadow of itself.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
Well, I don't know about saving a -lot- of lives, but my life was
pretty miserable (along with hosptital stays) for bleeding peptic
ulcers until I was placed on a regimem of antibiotics.
Also, note that a bleeding ulcer was the cause of death of my maternal
grandmother. Ulcers can kill.
I don't deny that - I knew some. But I knew a lot more people who died from
leukaemia (including my best friend at age 5) who would now live because CSF
allows one to harvest stem blood cells from the bone marrow to rescue the
patient after an otherwise fatal dose of chemo. It was estimated that well
over the population of my country owed their lives to Don's years of really
hard, good, science.
Lets see. They treat some patients by giving them a fatal does of
poison, and then save them by implanting new cells? Heroic medicine
indeed.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
.
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
06 Oct 2005 11:40:02 PM |
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Walter Bushell wrote:
In article <dhu2u7$o59$2@bunyip2.cc.uq.edu.au>,
John Wilkins <john@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
zawadzki@yahoo.com wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
maff wrote:
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/science/04cnd-nobel.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9264
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Two Australian scientists who discovered a bacterium that causes
stomach inflammation, ulcers and cancer won the 2005 Nobel Prize for
Physiology or Medicine today.
Nobel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a01dcb7b9f988d2c
...
These guys did do good work, but Nobel Laureate Level? They identified and
comnvinced people that a bacterium causes ulcers. In contrast, the last
[ever]
guy to discover the function of an entire *organ* - Jacques Miller who
worked
out what the thymus did (generates t-cells) - or his colleague Don Metcalf
who
isolated colony stimulating factor, thereby saving the lives, literally, of
tens of millions of cancer patients - fail to get awarded.
Ulcers comparable to these achievements? I think not. The Nobel has become
a
shadow of itself.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
Well, I don't know about saving a -lot- of lives, but my life was
pretty miserable (along with hosptital stays) for bleeding peptic
ulcers until I was placed on a regimem of antibiotics.
Also, note that a bleeding ulcer was the cause of death of my maternal
grandmother. Ulcers can kill.
I don't deny that - I knew some. But I knew a lot more people who died from
leukaemia (including my best friend at age 5) who would now live because CSF
allows one to harvest stem blood cells from the bone marrow to rescue the
patient after an otherwise fatal dose of chemo. It was estimated that well
over the population of my country owed their lives to Don's years of really
hard, good, science.
Lets see. They treat some patients by giving them a fatal does of
poison, and then save them by implanting new cells? Heroic medicine
indeed.
If you know a better way to kill rapidly dividing cells and leave the
undivided ones intact, let someone know - you'll win a Nobel just for that.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work |
04 Oct 2005 12:41:05 AM |
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On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:36:32 +1000, John Wilkins <john@wilkins.id.au>
wrote:
maff wrote:
Australians Receive Nobel for Bacterium Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/science/04cnd-nobel.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9264
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Two Australian scientists who discovered a bacterium that causes
stomach inflammation, ulcers and cancer won the 2005 Nobel Prize for
Physiology or Medicine today.
Nobel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a01dcb7b9f988d2c
...
These guys did do good work, but Nobel Laureate Level? They identified and
comnvinced people that a bacterium causes ulcers. In contrast, the last [ever]
guy to discover the function of an entire *organ* - Jacques Miller who worked
out what the thymus did (generates t-cells) - or his colleague Don Metcalf who
isolated colony stimulating factor, thereby saving the lives, literally, of
tens of millions of cancer patients - fail to get awarded.
Ulcers comparable to these achievements? I think not. The Nobel has become a
shadow of itself.
Don't forget that Nobel have always had a prize for Voodoo.
Specifically, for the branch of Voodoo popularly called "Economics".
The bizarre beliefs of Economists, even outstrip most theists for
implausibility, actually achieving outright impossibility in many
cases.
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