| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Susanne" |
| Date: |
30 Apr 2007 05:31:07 PM |
| Object: |
Authentic Science |
All scientists have a responsibility to broaden their comprehension of
the human situation. An astute skepticism is necessary in the pursuit
of truth, but it must be flexible and open to varied possibilities,
unhampered by a narrow materialistic orientation. Despite the
excessive naivety rife within the New Age movement, the intelligent
scientist can't toss the entire 5,000 year history of mysticism aside,
for a century of valid empirical research clearly reveals deeper
dimensions of human existence do exist.
Science can never provide us with a total grasp of existence, and any
"theory of everything" based on empirical evidence alone would not be
all encompassing. The intuitive insights of poets, the visions of
mystics and saints, the explorations of shamans, plus the
psychological and psychedelic research of different fields of science,
certainly count in any attempt at total description. But, though
science cannot provide us with an understanding of the whole, it can
assist us in cultivating a greater radius of comprehension. Though not
the royal road to wisdom many have thought it to be, science is a fine
tool and an important avenue toward self-knowledge and overall
knowledge of our existential-cosmic situation, Unfortunately, far too
many use science to build a bulwark against the insights brought forth
by explorations of the mind's archetypal depths and transcendent
dimensions. Scientists and skeptics of materialistic persuasion tend
toward a bias similar to religious fundamentalists zealously defending
their belief system.
According to Lew Paz, author of the recently published book, PUSHING
ULTIMATES: Fundamentals of Authentic Self-knowledge, the solution to
this predicament begins with an approach to the quest for genuine
wisdom centered around the cultivation of self-knowledge. As Socrates
clarified, to "know thyself" is the most significant task of all, and
Paz's remarkable book gives us the ways and means to pursue this task,
taking us on a challenging and enriching journey encompassing both
prehistory and history of consciousness, skillfully weaving mysticism,
theology, alchemy, psychology, philosophy, quantum physics, neurology,
anthropology, music, art, into meaningful and relevant patterns of
clarification. Throughout this amazing odyssey, Paz never loses sight
of the central theme - the quest to realize bottom line truths
concerning our place amid the wild wonder of it all, and he
accomplishes this without succumbing to New Age credulity or sterile
scientific skepticism.
Paz set out forty years ago to pursue a life of Zorba the Greek
adventure merged with Socratic questioning of all knowledges, which
developed into a spiritual quest of the most compelling sort. Years of
hard road travel over half the earth, including countless sunup to
sunset days in libraries great and small, deeply delving for truth and
wisdom, has given him the ability to transfer scholarly and esoteric
knowledges into layman's terms. PUSHING ULTIMATES skillfully condenses
the essential elements of all vital fields of knowledge into 400
clarifying pages. It is a "must read" for anyone seeking firm cohesive
answers to ultimate questions.
.
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| User: "ike milligan" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
30 Apr 2007 09:41:57 PM |
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"Susanne" <plumbell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1177972267.355512.101290@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
All scientists have a responsibility to broaden their comprehension of
the human situation. An astute skepticism is necessary in the pursuit
of truth, but it must be flexible and open to varied possibilities,
unhampered by a narrow materialistic orientation. Despite the
excessive naivety rife within the New Age movement, the intelligent
scientist can't toss the entire 5,000 year history of mysticism aside,
for a century of valid empirical research clearly reveals deeper
dimensions of human existence do exist.
Deeper than what? Deeper than your understanding? Understanding of what?
Science?
Science can never provide us with a total grasp of existence, and any
"theory of everything" based on empirical evidence alone would not be
all encompassing.
So you have a different theory of everything.
The intuitive insights of poets, the visions of
mystics and saints, the explorations of shamans, plus the
psychological and psychedelic research of different fields of science,
certainly count in any attempt at total description. But, though
science cannot provide us with an understanding of the whole, it can
assist us in cultivating a greater radius of comprehension. Though not
the royal road to wisdom many have thought it to be, science is a fine
tool and an important avenue toward self-knowledge and overall
knowledge of our existential-cosmic situation, Unfortunately, far too
many use science to build a bulwark against the insights brought forth
by explorations of the mind's archetypal depths and transcendent
dimensions. Scientists and skeptics of materialistic persuasion tend
toward a bias similar to religious fundamentalists zealously defending
their belief system.
unfortunately there are no examples of this since it is a fallacy designed
to promote whatever belief system you are selling. Straw man argument in
other words.
According to Lew Paz, author of the recently published book, PUSHING
ULTIMATES: Fundamentals of Authentic Self-knowledge, the solution to
this predicament begins with an approach to the quest for genuine
wisdom centered around the cultivation of self-knowledge.
Uh-oh. A predicament. What SHALL we do now?
As Socrates
clarified, to "know thyself" is the most significant task of all, and
Paz's remarkable book gives us the ways and means to pursue this task,
taking us on a challenging and enriching journey encompassing both
prehistory and history of consciousness, skillfully weaving mysticism,
theology, alchemy, psychology, philosophy, quantum physics, neurology,
anthropology, music, art, into meaningful and relevant patterns of
clarification. Throughout this amazing odyssey, Paz never loses sight
of the central theme - the quest to realize bottom line truths
concerning our place amid the wild wonder of it all, and he
accomplishes this without succumbing to New Age credulity or sterile
scientific skepticism.
Oh noo. We mustn't succumb to new age credulity or sterile scientific
skepticism, must we?
Paz set out forty years ago to pursue a life of Zorba the Greek
adventure merged with Socratic questioning of all knowledges, which
developed into a spiritual quest of the most compelling sort.
And he wasn't on drugs?
Years of
hard road travel over half the earth, including countless sunup to
sunset days in libraries great and small, deeply delving for truth and
wisdom, has given him the ability to transfer scholarly and esoteric
knowledges into layman's terms. PUSHING ULTIMATES skillfully condenses
the essential elements of all vital fields of knowledge into 400
clarifying pages. It is a "must read" for anyone seeking firm cohesive
answers to ultimate questions.
I'd like to know one answer. What's an ultimate question?
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
01 May 2007 04:05:43 AM |
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On Tue, 01 May 2007 02:41:57 GMT, "ike milligan"
<accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
- Refer: <VNxZh.5693$Ut6.5406@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
"Susanne" <plumbell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1177972267.355512.101290@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
All scientists have a responsibility to broaden their comprehension of
the human situation. An astute skepticism is necessary in the pursuit
of truth, but it must be flexible and open to varied possibilities,
unhampered by a narrow materialistic orientation. Despite the
excessive naivety rife within the New Age movement, the intelligent
scientist can't toss the entire 5,000 year history of mysticism aside,
for a century of valid empirical research clearly reveals deeper
dimensions of human existence do exist.
Deeper than what? Deeper than your understanding? Understanding of what?
Science?
Science can never provide us with a total grasp of existence, and any
"theory of everything" based on empirical evidence alone would not be
all encompassing.
So you have a different theory of everything.
The intuitive insights of poets, the visions of
mystics and saints, the explorations of shamans, plus the
psychological and psychedelic research of different fields of science,
certainly count in any attempt at total description. But, though
science cannot provide us with an understanding of the whole, it can
assist us in cultivating a greater radius of comprehension. Though not
the royal road to wisdom many have thought it to be, science is a fine
tool and an important avenue toward self-knowledge and overall
knowledge of our existential-cosmic situation, Unfortunately, far too
many use science to build a bulwark against the insights brought forth
by explorations of the mind's archetypal depths and transcendent
dimensions. Scientists and skeptics of materialistic persuasion tend
toward a bias similar to religious fundamentalists zealously defending
their belief system.
unfortunately there are no examples of this since it is a fallacy designed
to promote whatever belief system you are selling. Straw man argument in
other words.
According to Lew Paz, author of the recently published book, PUSHING
ULTIMATES: Fundamentals of Authentic Self-knowledge, the solution to
this predicament begins with an approach to the quest for genuine
wisdom centered around the cultivation of self-knowledge.
Uh-oh. A predicament. What SHALL we do now?
As Socrates
clarified, to "know thyself" is the most significant task of all, and
Paz's remarkable book gives us the ways and means to pursue this task,
taking us on a challenging and enriching journey encompassing both
prehistory and history of consciousness, skillfully weaving mysticism,
theology, alchemy, psychology, philosophy, quantum physics, neurology,
anthropology, music, art, into meaningful and relevant patterns of
clarification. Throughout this amazing odyssey, Paz never loses sight
of the central theme - the quest to realize bottom line truths
concerning our place amid the wild wonder of it all, and he
accomplishes this without succumbing to New Age credulity or sterile
scientific skepticism.
Oh noo. We mustn't succumb to new age credulity or sterile scientific
skepticism, must we?
Paz set out forty years ago to pursue a life of Zorba the Greek
adventure merged with Socratic questioning of all knowledges, which
developed into a spiritual quest of the most compelling sort.
And he wasn't on drugs?
Years of
hard road travel over half the earth, including countless sunup to
sunset days in libraries great and small, deeply delving for truth and
wisdom, has given him the ability to transfer scholarly and esoteric
knowledges into layman's terms. PUSHING ULTIMATES skillfully condenses
the essential elements of all vital fields of knowledge into 400
clarifying pages. It is a "must read" for anyone seeking firm cohesive
answers to ultimate questions.
I'd like to know one answer. What's an ultimate question?
"What's six times nine?"
--
.
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| User: "ike milligan" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
03 May 2007 02:05:59 PM |
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"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:jm0e33hbokqp9tp121e85172gtg2848dcg@4ax.com...
On Tue, 01 May 2007 02:41:57 GMT, "ike milligan"
<accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
- Refer: <VNxZh.5693$Ut6.5406@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
"Susanne" <plumbell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1177972267.355512.101290@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
All scientists have a responsibility to broaden their comprehension of
the human situation. An astute skepticism is necessary in the pursuit
of truth, but it must be flexible and open to varied possibilities,
unhampered by a narrow materialistic orientation. Despite the
excessive naivety rife within the New Age movement, the intelligent
scientist can't toss the entire 5,000 year history of mysticism aside,
for a century of valid empirical research clearly reveals deeper
dimensions of human existence do exist.
Deeper than what? Deeper than your understanding? Understanding of what?
Science?
Science can never provide us with a total grasp of existence, and any
"theory of everything" based on empirical evidence alone would not be
all encompassing.
So you have a different theory of everything.
The intuitive insights of poets, the visions of
mystics and saints, the explorations of shamans, plus the
psychological and psychedelic research of different fields of science,
certainly count in any attempt at total description. But, though
science cannot provide us with an understanding of the whole, it can
assist us in cultivating a greater radius of comprehension. Though not
the royal road to wisdom many have thought it to be, science is a fine
tool and an important avenue toward self-knowledge and overall
knowledge of our existential-cosmic situation, Unfortunately, far too
many use science to build a bulwark against the insights brought forth
by explorations of the mind's archetypal depths and transcendent
dimensions. Scientists and skeptics of materialistic persuasion tend
toward a bias similar to religious fundamentalists zealously defending
their belief system.
unfortunately there are no examples of this since it is a fallacy designed
to promote whatever belief system you are selling. Straw man argument in
other words.
According to Lew Paz, author of the recently published book, PUSHING
ULTIMATES: Fundamentals of Authentic Self-knowledge, the solution to
this predicament begins with an approach to the quest for genuine
wisdom centered around the cultivation of self-knowledge.
Uh-oh. A predicament. What SHALL we do now?
As Socrates
clarified, to "know thyself" is the most significant task of all, and
Paz's remarkable book gives us the ways and means to pursue this task,
taking us on a challenging and enriching journey encompassing both
prehistory and history of consciousness, skillfully weaving mysticism,
theology, alchemy, psychology, philosophy, quantum physics, neurology,
anthropology, music, art, into meaningful and relevant patterns of
clarification. Throughout this amazing odyssey, Paz never loses sight
of the central theme - the quest to realize bottom line truths
concerning our place amid the wild wonder of it all, and he
accomplishes this without succumbing to New Age credulity or sterile
scientific skepticism.
Oh noo. We mustn't succumb to new age credulity or sterile scientific
skepticism, must we?
Paz set out forty years ago to pursue a life of Zorba the Greek
adventure merged with Socratic questioning of all knowledges, which
developed into a spiritual quest of the most compelling sort.
And he wasn't on drugs?
Years of
hard road travel over half the earth, including countless sunup to
sunset days in libraries great and small, deeply delving for truth and
wisdom, has given him the ability to transfer scholarly and esoteric
knowledges into layman's terms. PUSHING ULTIMATES skillfully condenses
the essential elements of all vital fields of knowledge into 400
clarifying pages. It is a "must read" for anyone seeking firm cohesive
answers to ultimate questions.
I'd like to know one answer. What's an ultimate question?
"What's six times nine?"
The answer to the utlimate question is nine times six.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
03 May 2007 07:21:06 PM |
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On Thu, 03 May 2007 19:05:59 GMT, "ike milligan"
<accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
- Refer: <roq_h.11436$3P3.4858@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:jm0e33hbokqp9tp121e85172gtg2848dcg@4ax.com...
On Tue, 01 May 2007 02:41:57 GMT, "ike milligan"
<accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
- Refer: <VNxZh.5693$Ut6.5406@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
:
I'd like to know one answer. What's an ultimate question?
"What's six times nine?"
The answer to the utlimate question is nine times six.
Dang!
Now you've gone and spoiled it for all those mystics out there.
--
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
10 May 2007 08:04:04 PM |
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On 30 Apr 2007 15:31:07 -0700, Susanne <plumbell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
All scientists have a responsibility to broaden their comprehension of
the human situation. An astute skepticism is necessary in the pursuit
of truth, but it must be flexible and open to varied possibilities,
unhampered by a narrow materialistic orientation.
Translation: You're whining because your ***** bronze age pig
ignorance has been shown for the bull ***** it is. Please don't breed,
there's already too much theistic assininity about.
[]
--
Atheist n A person to be pitied in that he is
unable to believe things for which there is
no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of
a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
—Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
30 Apr 2007 08:30:41 PM |
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On 30 Apr 2007 15:31:07 -0700, Susanne <plumbell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
- Refer: <1177972267.355512.101290@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
All scientists have a responsibility to broaden their comprehension of
the human situation. An astute skepticism is necessary in the pursuit
of truth, but it must be flexible and open to varied possibilities,
unhampered by a narrow materialistic orientation. Despite the
excessive naivety rife within the New Age movement, the intelligent
scientist can't toss the entire 5,000 year history of mysticism aside,
:
I am a scientist, and I can say that have now descended into tosh made
from straw.
--
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
04 May 2007 08:01:23 PM |
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On 30 Apr 2007 15:31:07 -0700, Susanne <plumbell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
All scientists have a responsibility to broaden their comprehension of
the human situation. An astute skepticism is necessary in the pursuit
of truth, but it must be flexible and open to varied possibilities,
unhampered by a narrow materialistic orientation. Despite the
excessive naivety rife within the New Age movement, the intelligent
scientist can't toss the entire 5,000 year history of mysticism aside,
for a century of valid empirical research clearly reveals deeper
dimensions of human existence do exist.
Science can never provide us with a total grasp of existence, and any
"theory of everything" based on empirical evidence alone would not be
all encompassing. The intuitive insights of poets, the visions of
mystics and saints, the explorations of shamans, plus the
psychological and psychedelic research of different fields of science,
certainly count in any attempt at total description. But, though
science cannot provide us with an understanding of the whole, it can
assist us in cultivating a greater radius of comprehension. Though not
the royal road to wisdom many have thought it to be, science is a fine
tool and an important avenue toward self-knowledge and overall
knowledge of our existential-cosmic situation, Unfortunately, far too
many use science to build a bulwark against the insights brought forth
by explorations of the mind's archetypal depths and transcendent
dimensions. Scientists and skeptics of materialistic persuasion tend
toward a bias similar to religious fundamentalists zealously defending
their belief system.
According to Lew Paz, author of the recently published book, PUSHING
ULTIMATES: Fundamentals of Authentic Self-knowledge, the solution to
this predicament begins with an approach to the quest for genuine
wisdom centered around the cultivation of self-knowledge. As Socrates
clarified, to "know thyself" is the most significant task of all, and
Paz's remarkable book gives us the ways and means to pursue this task,
taking us on a challenging and enriching journey encompassing both
prehistory and history of consciousness, skillfully weaving mysticism,
theology, alchemy, psychology, philosophy, quantum physics, neurology,
anthropology, music, art, into meaningful and relevant patterns of
clarification. Throughout this amazing odyssey, Paz never loses sight
of the central theme - the quest to realize bottom line truths
concerning our place amid the wild wonder of it all, and he
accomplishes this without succumbing to New Age credulity or sterile
scientific skepticism.
Paz set out forty years ago to pursue a life of Zorba the Greek
adventure merged with Socratic questioning of all knowledges, which
developed into a spiritual quest of the most compelling sort. Years of
hard road travel over half the earth, including countless sunup to
sunset days in libraries great and small, deeply delving for truth and
wisdom, has given him the ability to transfer scholarly and esoteric
knowledges into layman's terms. PUSHING ULTIMATES skillfully condenses
the essential elements of all vital fields of knowledge into 400
clarifying pages. It is a "must read" for anyone seeking firm cohesive
answers to ultimate questions.
And you thought atheists would be interested in this book why,
exactly?
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
05 May 2007 01:56:27 AM |
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On Fri, 04 May 2007 21:01:23 -0400, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <0qln33dm3ksv2pdlm3al5fp037o9e31r5c@4ax.com>
On 30 Apr 2007 15:31:07 -0700, Susanne <plumbell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
All scientists have a responsibility to broaden their comprehension of
:
And you thought atheists would be interested in this book why,
exactly?
A very poor grasp on reality, I expect.
--
.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
30 Apr 2007 05:38:16 PM |
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On Apr 30, 3:31 pm, Susanne <plumb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Despite the
excessive naivety rife within the New Age movement, the intelligent
scientist can't toss the entire 5,000 year history of mysticism aside,
This phrase reveals the fact that you don't know what the ***** you're
talking about. Mysticism is *way* older than 5,000 years.
And dearie, if you want to lecture on what science is and isn't,
kindly take this over to talk.origins, which is just lousy with
*actual* *scientists* who practice *actual* *science*. The guys who
do it get to define it, not you nutcakes.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
30 Apr 2007 07:00:36 PM |
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skyeyes wrote:
And dearie, if you want to lecture on what science is and isn't,
kindly take this over to talk.origins, which is just lousy with
*actual* *scientists* who practice *actual* *science*. The guys who
do it get to define it, not you nutcakes.
I doubt Suzanne is actually interested in what science is or
isn't...she seems to be more interested in selling a book.
and anyone who thinks that there are " firm cohesive answers to
ultimate questions" probably deserves to get their money taken by the
scam artist who wrote it
Jim
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| User: "Hatter" |
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| Title: Re: Authentic Science |
03 May 2007 02:30:50 PM |
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On Apr 30, 6:31 pm, Susanne <plumb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
All scientists have a responsibility to broaden their comprehension of
the human situation. An astute skepticism is necessary in the pursuit
of truth, but it must be flexible and open to varied possibilities,
unhampered by a narrow materialistic orientation.
Materialistic = Matter oriented
Energy = fast matter
Matter plus Energy = Everything that exists
No actually they must by hampered by a "narrow materialisic
orientation," if they weren't they would accept nonsense, like what is
in the book you are about to peddle.
Despite the excessive naivety rife within the New Age movement, the intelligent
scientist can't toss the entire 5,000 year history of mysticism aside
As an anthropogist, that is true...as a Physicist that is what they
are eternally determined to do....by definition.
for a century of valid empirical research clearly reveals deeper
dimensions of human existence do exist.
Citation?
Science can never provide us with a total grasp of existence, and any
"theory of everything" based on empirical evidence alone would not be
all encompassing.
Yes, it wouldn't be all encompassing, it would just be all
encompassing of everything that actually exists....got it.
The intuitive insights of poets, the visions of
mystics and saints, the explorations of shamans,
plus the
psychological and psychedelic research of different fields of science,
certainly count in any attempt at total description.
They only count towards the description of the psyche....not matter or
energy. I think you are conflagrigating the two....on purpose.
But, though
science cannot provide us with an understanding of the whole
only the whole of matter and energy....you already said so, but in
genuine stage magician fashion are trying to redirect us
it can assist us in cultivating a greater radius of comprehension.
??????????????????????????????????????
Though not the royal road to wisdom many have thought it to be, science is a fine
tool and an important avenue toward self-knowledge and overall
knowledge of our existential-cosmic situation, Unfortunately, far too
many use science to build a bulwark against the insights brought forth
by explorations of the mind's archetypal depths and transcendent
dimensions.
Ah what you are referring to is "making ***** up" although in a more
postive and poetic matter. In fact, science's entire job is to
seperate the real way things work versus "making ***** up"
Scientists and skeptics of materialistic persuasion tend
toward a bias similar to religious fundamentalists zealously defending
their belief system.
Yes Scientists and Skeptic do get Zealous, they can't understand why
everyone else insists on "making ***** up."
According to Lew Paz, author of the recently published book, PUSHING
ULTIMATES: Fundamentals of Authentic Self-knowledge, the solution to
this predicament begins with an approach to the quest for genuine
wisdom centered around the cultivation of self-knowledge. As Socrates
clarified, to "know thyself" is the most significant task of all, and
Paz's remarkable book gives us the ways and means to pursue this task,
taking us on a challenging and enriching journey encompassing both
prehistory and history of consciousness, skillfully weaving mysticism,
theology, alchemy, psychology, philosophy, quantum physics, neurology,
anthropology, music, art, into meaningful and relevant patterns of
clarification. Throughout this amazing odyssey, Paz never loses sight
of the central theme - the quest to realize bottom line truths
concerning our place amid the wild wonder of it all, and he
accomplishes this without succumbing to New Age credulity or sterile
scientific skepticism.
Paz set out forty years ago to pursue a life of Zorba the Greek
adventure merged with Socratic questioning of all knowledges, which
developed into a spiritual quest of the most compelling sort. Years of
hard road travel over half the earth, including countless sunup to
sunset days in libraries great and small, deeply delving for truth and
wisdom, has given him the ability to transfer scholarly and esoteric
knowledges into layman's terms. PUSHING ULTIMATES skillfully condenses
the essential elements of all vital fields of knowledge into 400
clarifying pages. It is a "must read" for anyone seeking firm cohesive
answers to ultimate questions.
Ahh we get now to the peddle. Which might have merit, but it smells
all lot like "making ***** up"
Hatter
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