Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Budikka666"
Date:	02 Apr 2006 07:31:45 AM
Object:	Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm
Budikka
.

User: "Mindfucked"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	14 Apr 2006 03:00:33 PM

If you had answered the question you would be falling over yourself to
prove it.
Instead - not one link to prove that you answered.
You have just proved that you are an inveterate liar as well as an
idiot who can do nothing but sling insults and run away.
Just keep on running...
.

User: "Michael Gray"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	09 Apr 2006 01:46:59 AM

On 8 Apr 2006 21:04:24 -0700, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1144555464.089294.160710@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>

Mindfucked wrote:

If you addressed the issues, supply the proof - follow up this post with a
link to the message wherein you addressed the issues, or at least supply the
message id.

What's the point of getting into it *again* when you're too mind-fucked
to grasp it the first few times? The reason I don't address it any
more is that you're the most tedious ***** on Usenet. Get it,
dimwit?

Now please seek help for your pathetic obsession with me before you're
compulsorily assigned to an institution, you psycho *****.

My recollection is different and I have proof.

Like I care about your tedious, vacuous, endless *****. What you
have is sour grapes and all you could make from it is whine.
Contratulations, you've just been mind-fucked.

Again.

Budikka

Ah, so I see that his sycophantic cheersquad of mindless reactionary
sock-puppets have not yet suffocated up Mr. Blah's backside.
JW cretins, I bet.
--
.

User: "Mindfucked"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	09 Apr 2006 06:27:17 PM

"Michael Gay" <fleetg@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:hbbh32le5vv3i73pkmmrk7crj6bv9436qj@4ax.com...

On 8 Apr 2006 21:04:24 -0700, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1144555464.089294.160710@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>

Mindfucked wrote:

If you addressed the issues, supply the proof - follow up this post with
a
link to the message wherein you addressed the issues, or at least supply
the
message id.

My recollection is different and I have proof.

Like I care about your tedious, vacuous, endless *****. What you
have is sour grapes and all you could make from it is whine.
Contratulations, you've just been mind-fucked.

Again.

Budikka

Ah, so I see that his sycophantic cheersquad of mindless reactionary
sock-puppets have not yet suffocated up Mr. Blah's backside.

I see your alleged 'BSc' does not mean you have the intellect to discuss
specifics without resorting to puerile ad hominems.
Why does agreeing with another poster on one or two points make someone a
'sycophantic cheersquad'?
How many alleged 'sycophants' does it take to be considered a 'cheersquad'?
What has been said that is 'mindless'? (apart from the ad hominem filled
responses you are both adept at)
What justification do you base accusations of 'reactionary-ism' on? - feel
free to be specific.
What basis do you have for alleging that I am a 'sock-puppet'? (You do know
what a sock puppet is, I assume?)
Feel free to provide 'sources and references' - LOL!

JW cretins, I bet.

You bet wrongly - I bet that you don't realize that you are clearly an
educated
idiot.
; - )
.

User: "Mindfucked"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	09 Apr 2006 08:22:19 AM

"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:hbbh32le5vv3i73pkmmrk7crj6bv9436qj@4ax.com...

Ah, so I see that his sycophantic cheersquad of mindless reactionary
sock-puppets have not yet suffocated up Mr. Blah's backside.
JW cretins, I bet.

Ah - I see the 'educated idiot' is back.
.

User: "Mr. Bla"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	06 Apr 2006 11:34:01 AM

- go easy on her - she gets upset easily...

Still waiting on you finding the guts and the sicence to go into the
ring with me. Of course, if you had even a modicum of either, if you
had anything at all to offer, you wouldn't be obsessively-compulsively
indulging yourself in this pathetic juvenile masturbation and whining
because I kicked your ***** seven ways from sundown and never said sorry.

Budikka

Wow, there is an empty spot deep inside you and that's obvious from your
posting. Nobody "goes into the ring" with anyone when they're having a
Usenet discussion. Do you ever read your postings after you post them? You
talk about "going into the ring", "kicking someone's *****", as well as other
references to physical combat. Are you that internally in turmoil? I can't
make any sort of psychiatric diagnoses based on someone's Usenet postings.
For all I know you take a hit of peyote prior to all of your postings. But
I would suggest that it's quite possible that your difficulty is not with
technical information, biology, or any other science. Let me ask you a
simple questions; are you happy? Do you feel internally at peace? You may
not like God, you may not agree with all that he has done or the way that he
has done it. But it's pretty obvious from your postings that you are very
angry person. I'm not against heated discussion. I'm not even against
taking an occasional insult. But it's clear that you have difficulty with
anything that confronts your preset beliefs. I have a lot of beliefs and a
lot of theology in my head. But the most important theology to me is the
fact that when I lay down my head at night I FEEL the presence of God in my
life and it affects my work, my marriage, my friendships, and everything
that I do. I realize that is not something that you would probably claim
that you want in your life but it is my earnest Hope and prayer that by some
way God will see fit to visit you in a personal way. I don't wish evil on
you I don't want to "kick your butt" or hope that you spend eternity in
hell. What I hope is that God gives you the greatest gift in the world.
With all sincerity
Mr. Bla
.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	07 Apr 2006 10:50:27 PM

Mr. Bla wrote:

- go easy on her - she gets upset easily...

Wow, there is an empty spot deep inside you

No, the empty deep spot is inside your head. You cannot respond to the
hard facts so now it's time to ad hom. Well, let's get to it. It's
what your ilk does best, after all. Let's see what you've got. I hope
it's stronger than your non-speciation "argument".

and that's obvious from your
posting.

What's obvious is that you don't have a shred of support for your
wild-***** claims, whereas I do. I posted mine and **YOU RAN AWAY**.
Now all you can do is *pretend* you're somehow superior. Do you have
*any* idea how pathetic you are?
Those are the facts. Deal with them. Try removing the plank from your
own eye before you imagine you can see a mote in mine.

Nobody "goes into the ring" with anyone when they're having a
Usenet discussion.

Well I figured that metaphor was appropriate since you came out
swinging. Unfortunately, you had marshmallows instead of gloves. They
were very cute, though. But pink? really?

Do you ever read your postings after you post them?

Yep. I can read. You obviously can't, judged by your "responses".

You
talk about "going into the ring", "kicking someone's *****", as well as other
references to physical combat. Are you that internally in turmoil?

Nope. But you obviously are,. First you claim you're "outta here"
then you come back. Clearly you're the one in turmoil. Or maybe you
*like* getting your ***** kicked. Perhaps you feel it's a cure for your
bla's.
(BTW, you asked if I know the difference between genotype and
phenotype. Yes I do. Do you know the difference between metaphor and
your *****? Apparently not).

I can't

I know.

make any sort of psychiatric diagnoses based on someone's Usenet postings.

Yet that doesn't stop you, does it? The fact is you can't even
understand Usenet postings. You attack people rather than the argument
and when they blast your weak messages, you start in on the ad hom
instead of addressing the weakness that have been pointed out to you.
Is that what Jesus would do?

For all I know you take a hit of peyote prior to all of your postings.

Why would I waste time with that when I can get an incomparable high
off the sheer idiocy I see in responses like yours?
You ever going to get around to addressing the weaknesses in your
claims, or shall we just keep going at it? I find it rather curious
that someone who disparaged the boxing metaphor is now swinging blindly
at me. Or do you feel so much like god that you think your fiat alone
should settle any argument?

But

As in "You're talking out of it rather than using your brain"?

I would suggest that it's quite possible that your difficulty is not with
technical information, biology, or any other science.

Finally you nailed one.

Let me ask you a
simple questions; are you happy?

A lot happier than you since I don't need to get my jollies by means of
going into newsgroups with the sole intention of dictating the law and
abusing those who disagree. Is that what Jesus would do?

Do you feel internally at peace?

Absolutely. What's your excuse? And why ask these dumb-***** questions?
If you don't believe me when I talk about speciation, why on Earth
would any even begin to imagine you have any interest at all in the
answers to these juvenile and shallow questions, you vacuous dimwit?

You may
not like God,

It's not possible to meaningfully like or dislike something that
doesn't exist.
What I don't like is people who try to dictate to others how things
should be, based not on common sense, science, or any kind of
rationale, but purely on their blind belief in an ancient idiotic myth
for which no logical, useful or scientific support can be found.

you may not agree with all that he has done

Blind assumption. Talking of psychiatry, have you ever thought you
maybe ought to get treatment for this delusion of yours - you know, the
one you call "God"?

or the way that he
has done it.

He didn't do diddly. But I am sure you will present scientific support
for your argument if you wish to dispute that.

But it's pretty obvious from your postings that you are very
angry person.

LoL! You have no idea what I am. Get that part right, first. Then
get this part right: this is not real life, it's a Usenet group where
you came out abusively and swinging, you failed to make a case for your
wild-***** claims, and I put you in your place. Get that right before
you blindly and arrogantly pontificate any more.

I'm not against heated discussion.

No, you're just against offering a shred of rational for your claims,
and when someone *****-slaps you with your impotence, you start whining
like some schoolyard bully who got his come-uppance. And now you're
projecting all of your issues onto me, like this will somehow fix
*you*. Yeah. Right. Dream on.

I'm not even against
taking an occasional insult.

You'd better not be with your attitude because you're begging for them
in a.a.

But it's clear that you have difficulty with
anything that confronts your preset beliefs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
**MY** preset beliefs? LoL! Do you have even the first clue how
fucked-up you truly are? My preset beliefs? After you come in here
without a shred of support and start arrogantly asserting all your god
crap, and when someone trips you up you start pissing and moaning like
a three-year old?
What a piece of work *you* are. Go read about the plank and the mote.
Seriously. Get a clue. Examine yourself before you project your
defects onto others.
I was willing to be convinced if you could have presented a valid,
supported argument. *You* were never willing to be swayed at all. But
instead of discussing it, you start in the the *****
psycho-analysis. Clearly you have *lost* the position and don't have
the decency to admit it.

I have a lot of beliefs and a
lot of theology in my head.

That's your problem right there. I'm willing to change my position
based on evidence and rationale. You clearly are not. You're
incapable of doing so because you're a blind theist. You're not even
willing to **LISTEN** to the opposing view. Instead, you'd rather come
out swinging and compare your opposition to Adolf Hitler. What if I am
Jewish? Is calling me "mein Fuhrer" an appropriate thing to do? Is
that what Jesus would do?

But the most important theology to me is the
fact that when I lay down my head at night I FEEL the presence of God in my
life and it affects my work, my marriage, my friendships, and everything
that I do.

When I lay down my head at night I FEEL that your ilk are completely
deluded. So which of us is right? Is your "FEEL" better than mine?
NO. Does it have any mroe validity? NO. Does it ahve any mroe
support? NO.
That's why it comes down to evidence and rationale. I have it, you
don't. It really is that simple. But cling to your security blanket.
Call it god.

I realize that is not something that you would probably claim
that you want in your life but it is my earnest Hope and prayer that by some
way God will see fit to visit you in a personal way.

There is no god to visit. Get that right before you arrogantly try to
impose your bizarre insecurities on those who are perfectly secure.
Do you *seriously* believe that I would want any part of the god of the
Bible even if it were real? You ask if I read my posts, but what's far
more to the point, do you read the Bible? Do you read about the god
who created evil and about the massive abuses and slaughter your god
has personally perpetrated and ordered and sanctioned? If that god
were real, would you seriously want to spend an eternity with a
psychotic, insecure, schizophrenic child-abusing loser like that? If
you do, you're *seriously* in need of psychiatric attention. Do you
have **ANY** conception at all as to what **ETERNITY** even is?

I don't wish evil on
you

But you'll go so far as to label someone as Hitler and then tell them
that you love them in the name of a 2,000 year old myth? You're sick
in the head. Seriously sick in the head. You dump this kind of
***** onto someone and wonder why they react so negatively? Get a
clue.

I don't want to "kick your butt" or hope that you spend eternity in
hell.

There is no Hell and if there were, it would be a better place to be
than with this god the Bible scribes invented.

What I hope is that God gives you the greatest gift in the world.

LoL! You mean you want this myth of yours to stay away from me? That
would be wonderful.

With all sincerity

Yeah, hypocrite. Sincerity. After your messages? Uh-huh. Get a
clue.
Budikka
.

User: "Michael Gray"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	08 Apr 2006 02:47:38 AM

On 7 Apr 2006 20:50:27 -0700, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1144468227.790289.247220@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>

Mr. Bla wrote:

:
<random *****>
:

With all sincerity

Yeah, hypocrite. Sincerity. After your messages? Uh-huh. Get a
clue.

Budikka

But didn't you know that Mr. Blah is a world-famous doctor, upon whom
hundreds of lives depend???
How could anyone like that be wrong?
(Unless he is lying about it, of course...)
Ask to see his medical degree, I'm sure he'd jump at the chance.
--
.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	08 Apr 2006 11:25:28 PM

Michael Gray wrote:

On 7 Apr 2006 20:50:27 -0700, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1144468227.790289.247220@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>

Mr. Bla wrote:

:
<random *****>
:

With all sincerity

Yeah, hypocrite. Sincerity. After your messages? Uh-huh. Get a
clue.

Budikka

I don't think he'd understand the question!
He failed to understand that the series of questions I posted to
Jabriol were derived from the ***** that Jabriol has been posting
since I've known him. Instead, he proceeded to blah blah through them
himself!
When I pointed out the problems with his "answers" he ran away with
"sincere" wishes that I find god before, in another message, he started
paradoxically jabbing at me again! Then he tried to deride my boxing
metaphor! And he thinks *I'm* missing something in the logic
department?!
He failed to understand my request that he support his argument that
this thread's opening message isn't a case of speciation. I would have
bought his argument if he'd been able to validate it, since, unlike
him, I do understand and accept good arguments that defeat mine.
Instead of taking that opportunity, he launched into a series of
diatribes about my "qualifications" to have an opinion! He'd probably
have heart failure if I challenged his med cred! LoL!
But this is why I dug my feet in and stood behind my claim. It's not
because I'm blindly convinced that it's irrefutable, it's because I
think it's valid and his postion fully and solely appears to consist of
the absurd preposition that I lay down and roll over on nothing more
than his unsupported and insulting demand.
Ironically, it was this attitude of his that actually made me believe
he does have an MD. I'm sure his med school history was that of seeing
a parade of weak-willed women roll over for him *exactly* like that
when he "revealed his credentials" to them! LoL! Now he can't get
through life without assuming a superior attitude.
But the bottom line is that attacking his med cred would buy into his
argumentum ad verecundiam when the bottom line is that it does not
matter a jot if he has fifteen PhD's and I'm Elmer Phud. If his
argument is lousy or unsupported, or based simply on him saying "yes it
is", it's fallacious and that's all there is to it.
B.
.

User: "Michael Gray"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	09 Apr 2006 01:44:47 AM

On 8 Apr 2006 21:25:28 -0700, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1144556728.186390.254620@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>

Michael Gray wrote:

On 7 Apr 2006 20:50:27 -0700, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1144468227.790289.247220@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>

Mr. Bla wrote:

:
<random *****>
:

With all sincerity

Yeah, hypocrite. Sincerity. After your messages? Uh-huh. Get a
clue.

Budikka

I don't think he'd understand the question!

He failed to understand that the series of questions I posted to
Jabriol were derived from the ***** that Jabriol has been posting
since I've known him. Instead, he proceeded to blah blah through them
himself!

When I pointed out the problems with his "answers" he ran away with
"sincere" wishes that I find god before, in another message, he started
paradoxically jabbing at me again! Then he tried to deride my boxing
metaphor! And he thinks *I'm* missing something in the logic
department?!

He failed to understand my request that he support his argument that
this thread's opening message isn't a case of speciation. I would have
bought his argument if he'd been able to validate it, since, unlike
him, I do understand and accept good arguments that defeat mine.

Instead of taking that opportunity, he launched into a series of
diatribes about my "qualifications" to have an opinion! He'd probably
have heart failure if I challenged his med cred! LoL!

But this is why I dug my feet in and stood behind my claim. It's not
because I'm blindly convinced that it's irrefutable, it's because I
think it's valid and his postion fully and solely appears to consist of
the absurd preposition that I lay down and roll over on nothing more
than his unsupported and insulting demand.

Ironically, it was this attitude of his that actually made me believe
he does have an MD. I'm sure his med school history was that of seeing
a parade of weak-willed women roll over for him *exactly* like that
when he "revealed his credentials" to them! LoL! Now he can't get
through life without assuming a superior attitude.

But the bottom line is that attacking his med cred would buy into his
argumentum ad verecundiam when the bottom line is that it does not
matter a jot if he has fifteen PhD's and I'm Elmer Phud. If his
argument is lousy or unsupported, or based simply on him saying "yes it
is", it's fallacious and that's all there is to it.

B.

Yes, I can see your position, but was attempting to inject some
humour, coupled with a very large dash of realism, into this debate
from your side, vs his logorrhea of logical fallacies from the other
side.
In fact, I think he may have invented one currently unknown to modern
science.
His sycophantic cheersquad seems to have gone quiet.
Or is it simply that I have plonked the drooling cretins?
But as has been remarked upon previously, he is certainly "on the
mark" with his chosen moniker!!
--
.

User: "Mindfucked"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	09 Apr 2006 08:32:12 AM

"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:muah329m5vf4o6f3rmkdvu9s3sedk99197@4ax.com...

His sycophantic cheersquad seems to have gone quiet.
Or is it simply that I have plonked the drooling cretins?

If you 'plonk' someone you will not see their posts - I would have thought
someone with a Bsc would have known that!
you are obviously an idiot - an 'educated' idiot - but an idiot nevertheless
.

User: "Michael Gray"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	06 Apr 2006 05:03:20 AM

On 5 Apr 2006 20:07:30 -0700, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1144292850.068063.131600@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>

No Mind, Completely Fucked wrote:

"Mr. Bla" <bla@bla.com> wrote in message
news:Dc2dnYvaDIx9qK7ZRVn-gw@comcast.com...

"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1144187670.041389.258430@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Mr. Bla wrote:

are these 2 variants within a cluster or related viruses?(yes),

This after you hypocritically accuse me of claiming to be the final
authority? Back up your case and I'll buy it, but spittle and bluster
doesn't sell with me.

Call it a sub species if you like but it is definitely not the *same*
as you are insisting. If you want to argue that it is, then you need
to make your case. You have failed to do this so far.

I will call it what legitimate virologists call it; the same species. Do
you
know the difference between genotype and phenotype?

Your taking a definition from Wiki and then leapfrogging from that to
dictating on nothing more than your own authority that it directly
applies to the flu strains under discussion is not going to convince me
unless you back it up or present your viral credentials. Are you a
virologist? I thought not.

I certainly have a much better understanding of virology than you. I deal
with viruses DAILY. You are such an incredible poser. The wiki definition
is
taken from a legitimate source. If you think I am going to track down the
original source for someone like yourself who doesn't even understand the
most rudimentry points of genetics then you are as daft as you sound.

Are gorillas and chimpanzees in a cluster of related primates? Yes.

do they
occupy the same ecological niche?(yes)

Do gorillas and chimpanzees occupy the same ecological niche? Yes.

are they so similar (they are
functionally identical) that it is best for them to have the same

name?(yes)

Pretty darned near. Does that make gorillas and chimpanzees the same
species? No!

wow! your ignorance of some of the most basic tenets of taxonomy is
astounding! You cannot compare special differences in animals with that in
viruses. If I would have known that your level of knowledge were sub-high
school I would have given a bit more background data to clarify it for
you.

Mr Bla

You are discussing with someone who

a) - Thinks a simple plural (meaning 'more than one') means 'all'
b) - thinks that saying: "How is standing next to a nuclear missile about to
detonate like
refusing to take the perceptual leap required to believe that because
something concievably or demonstrably could have occurred a certain
way, it did happen that way?"

is inconsistent with saying:

"evolution (which is an abstract noun) is a provisional
understanding, subject to revision if and when a more cogent understanding
is arrived at."?

Yet cannot point out why.
c) - Does not understand what an abstract noun is.
d) - Predicts that someone she is arguing with will run away and then
promptly runs away herself.

- go easy on her - she gets upset easily...

At least "mindfucked" had the mental wherewhithal to confess to me
that his alias is an entirely appropriate one.
--
.

User: "R. Nunnely"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	06 Apr 2006 01:40:16 PM

"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:eop932t8bja5rclkkedm51b7fihpulgfs1@4ax.com...

At least "mindfucked" had the mental wherewhithal to confess to me
that his alias is an entirely appropriate one.
--

That's what a high-control religious cult does to people. I'm glad he wised
up and left the Org.
--
Nu....
All the JWs wish for is walking around the COUNTRYSIDE (never any towns
pictured in the WT rags) smiling like the village idiot and carrying
baskets of veggies and fruit with them. Also note they all live in suit
pants and dress shirts. The women live in housedresses of 1952 vintage.....
and they call that paradise? Any normal human being would rapidly be bored
to death looking at trees, grass, each other's ever smiling faces and eating
a vegetarian diet.
They'd soon be longing for a good book, a movie, a Mall or a steak
dinner..... (Carol)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	07 Apr 2006 11:21:34 PM

Mr. Bla wrote:

"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1144187670.041389.258430@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Mr. Bla wrote:

are these 2 variants within a cluster or related viruses?(yes),

I will call it what legitimate virologists call it; the same species. Do you
know the difference between genotype and phenotype?

Which part of "support your claims" is it that's above your reading
comprehension level? Is there any other way I can express that to you
that will help you to grasp it?

I certainly have a much better understanding of virology than you. I deal
with viruses DAILY.

Don't we all.

You are such an incredible poser.

This from the guy who claims a virus is exactly the same as another
virus from which it is "genetically distinct"?
LoL!

The wiki definition is
taken from a legitimate source.

I'm not disputing Wiki. Which part of that is it that you didn't get?
But Wiki didn't address the issue of the new strain - the genetically
distinct strain in question, just viruses in general. What you did is
leapfrog from that to your rather desperate and needy attempt to impose
your will on others. Your interns probably loved you. Instead of
taking a golden opportunity to build a case, just dictate to them what
the "truth" is and under no circimstances whatsoever allow any thought
or discussion to take place.
You picked the right screen handle.

If you think I am going to track down the
original source for someone like yourself who doesn't even understand the
most rudimentry points of genetics then you are as daft as you sound.

I love that excuse. That's very good. Mind if I use it some time if I
ever find I'm so backed against a wall that I feel blindly compelled to
abandon all attempts to make any sort of a case and simply resort to
argument from authority, ad hom, and unsupported assertion? I *love*
the way you become apoplectic when someone actually questions your
blind dictates.
But no, don't let me waste any more of your valuable time, because
you're God Almighty (TM) and I'm just a miserable sinner who has gone
astray and fallen short of the Glory of God (TM). You have an
important agenda to impose overwhelming mind-control over others, so
please, don't let me get in your way.

Are gorillas and chimpanzees in a cluster of related primates? Yes.

do they
occupy the same ecological niche?(yes)

Do gorillas and chimpanzees occupy the same ecological niche? Yes.

are they so similar (they are
functionally identical) that it is best for them to have the same

name?(yes)

Pretty darned near. Does that make gorillas and chimpanzees the same
species? No!

Uh-huh. That's what I asked you for - to support your case. And no, I
don't imagine species distinction is **EXACTLY THE SAME** in virsues as
it is in vertebrate mammals. But I read Wiki and my position is that
your divine leap from Wiki generalisation to specific case failed.
**WHICH PART OF THAT IS IT THAT I NEED TO DUMB DOWN BEFORE YOU'LL GRASP
IT?** All you're doing **AGAIN** is claiming you're god almighty and
therefore your will be done.

And upon what authority are you claiming that the two strains of virus
are functionally identical? Are you a virologist? I thought not. Flu
viruses may appear very similar - so similar that yoru average
creationist (and they're all average) is prepared to consider them one
"kind", but they're not as any cursory reading of the literature will
confirm. They're quite different in their make-up and significantly
different in their "function".

Your ignorance seems to grow as I read. What trait does the second virus
have which the first didn't?

Ask the people who determined that the new variant is **GENETICALLY
DISTINCT** from the old one. No, never mind. I forgot. You have
already declared by divine fiat that "genetically" distinct is simply
another phrase for "exactly the same". Please do forgive me and don't
strike me down with a bolt of lightning, O Lord Bla Almighty.
Why Oh why, when you're blundering around this like a BSE cow, am I
somehow not convinced of your...dare I say, "sincerity"?

Note that I said trait not gene. Being
genetically different doesn't imply functional difference. In the article
referred to I saw not information referring to any phenotypical difference.
Cursory reading of "the literature" Are you referring to Batman comic books
because I see nothing in your post which leads me to believe you read
anything else

This from one who is supposed to turn the other cheek and do unto
others as he'd be done by? This from somone who signed another post
with "sincerity"? Uh-huh. yeah. Right.

The new strain doesn't have the same name, unless you're definining
"HIV" as the "name". That's why it's called a new strain. But again
if this is your claim, what is your authority for this?

is this ultimately the same virus within the same niche causing the same
symptoms in the same animals by using the same genes and the same
proteins(yes)

So you say. And *your* qualifications for authoritatively stating this
are? I note your slipping in the word "ultimately". Where does that
appear in any scientific definition of species?

if so then these 2 variants are ONE VIRAL SPECIES.

Well I'm still open. Clearly you've declared it decided based on
nothing more than your own authority - which, again, is what? You seem
to have failed to note that the article specifically said, "...a
genetically distinct variant which appears to have emerged last year,
infecting people in Indonesia.

Read the definition which is agreed upon by virologists!

Which part of "You leapfrogged from the generic definition to the
specific case of the new strain" is it you're not quite comprehending?

So the key phrases here are "genetically distinct" (in itself a useable
definition of species in the circumstances), and "in Indonesia",
meaning your claims regarding the "same ecological niche" are voided.
The set "Indonesia" <> the set "hemisphere".

here is an excellent example of your deception "in itself a useable
definition of species in the circumstances" WHAT? the definition of species
is established

No, here is an *excellent* example of you either not understanding or
not even reading and then rolling right over it with your own arrogant
unsupported argument from leapfrog and authority. So until and unless
you can do **BETTER** than this, you can kiss my *****. I invited you to
make your case. You blew it. You're flushed.
Budikka
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	02 Apr 2006 10:07:39 PM

Previously, on alt.atheism, Mr. Bla in episode
<NJ6dnehtzZ2g663ZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com>...

By the way, how is a genetically distinct

That's how.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.

User: "Mr. Bla"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	03 Apr 2006 01:26:02 PM

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:gPGdnQK48bnmDK3ZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@megapath.net...

Previously, on alt.atheism, Mr. Bla in episode
<NJ6dnehtzZ2g663ZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com>...

By the way, how is a genetically distinct

That's how.

--
Mark K. Bilbo

Brilliant response
Bla
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	05 Apr 2006 04:05:01 PM

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:47:40 +0300, SeppoP
<seppo_pietikainen@xyahoox.com> wrote in alt.atheism

Tim K. wrote:

"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1143981105.109033.295080@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Interesting, and scary.
I've got to quibble over the verb though - I just can't accept the "species
concept" when applied to viruses.

False! God created just *two* copies of of H5N1 and they were fed on the Ark and released afterwards.
(I know, I know, viruses are not male or female, but I doubt that Noah and his happy band knew that)

What do you mean *happy?* They got stuck with a massive ***** detail for
over a year breathing noxious fumes.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.

User: "SlammerPendragon"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	05 Apr 2006 04:45:24 PM

stoney wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:47:40 +0300, SeppoP
<seppo_pietikainen@xyahoox.com> wrote in alt.atheism

Tim K. wrote:

"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1143981105.109033.295080@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Interesting, and scary.
I've got to quibble over the verb though - I just can't accept the "species
concept" when applied to viruses.

What do you mean *happy?* They got stuck with a massive ***** detail for
over a year breathing noxious fumes.

ever heard of recycling green waste. These guys had a floating farm as
well. They had the best fertilizer on the planet.
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	06 Apr 2006 12:34:53 PM

On 5 Apr 2006 14:45:24 -0700, "SlammerPendragon" <JhemHaddar@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

stoney wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:47:40 +0300, SeppoP
<seppo_pietikainen@xyahoox.com> wrote in alt.atheism

Tim K. wrote:

"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1143981105.109033.295080@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Interesting, and scary.
I've got to quibble over the verb though - I just can't accept the "species
concept" when applied to viruses.

What do you mean *happy?* They got stuck with a massive ***** detail for
over a year breathing noxious fumes.

ever heard of recycling green waste.

How and to where?

These guys had a floating farm as
well. They had the best fertilizer on the planet.

No farm on board. The best they could do was to shovel it all out the
one tiny window 24/7. They didn't *dare* strike a spark.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.

User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?0G/Wb1o=?="
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	06 Apr 2006 03:48:32 PM

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:n6ka32djgqljgv2jml2hc0mi75t275lelj@4ax.com...

On 5 Apr 2006 14:45:24 -0700, "SlammerPendragon" <JhemHaddar@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

stoney wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:47:40 +0300, SeppoP
<seppo_pietikainen@xyahoox.com> wrote in alt.atheism

Tim K. wrote:

"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1143981105.109033.295080@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Interesting, and scary.
I've got to quibble over the verb though - I just can't accept the
"species
concept" when applied to viruses.

False! God created just *two* copies of of H5N1 and they were fed on
the Ark and released afterwards.
(I know, I know, viruses are not male or female, but I doubt that Noah
and his happy band knew that)

What do you mean *happy?* They got stuck with a massive ***** detail for
over a year breathing noxious fumes.

ever heard of recycling green waste.

How and to where?

These guys had a floating farm as
well. They had the best fertilizer on the planet.

No farm on board. The best they could do was to shovel it all out the
one tiny window 24/7. They didn't *dare* strike a spark.

===========================
No need for a flood as the urine from all those animals would have either
drowned them all or killed them with ammonia fumes. Ever smell a baby's wet
diaper? A compost heap outside a barn?
Please remove the NGs where this is off-topic.
--
Do.......
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
========================================
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	07 Apr 2006 02:14:55 PM

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:48:32 -0500, �o�oZ <watch@thistime.net> wrote in
alt.atheism

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:n6ka32djgqljgv2jml2hc0mi75t275lelj@4ax.com...

On 5 Apr 2006 14:45:24 -0700, "SlammerPendragon" <JhemHaddar@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

stoney wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:47:40 +0300, SeppoP
<seppo_pietikainen@xyahoox.com> wrote in alt.atheism

Tim K. wrote:

"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1143981105.109033.295080@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Interesting, and scary.
I've got to quibble over the verb though - I just can't accept the
"species
concept" when applied to viruses.

False! God created just *two* copies of of H5N1 and they were fed on
the Ark and released afterwards.
(I know, I know, viruses are not male or female, but I doubt that Noah
and his happy band knew that)

What do you mean *happy?* They got stuck with a massive ***** detail for
over a year breathing noxious fumes.

ever heard of recycling green waste.

How and to where?

These guys had a floating farm as
well. They had the best fertilizer on the planet.

No farm on board. The best they could do was to shovel it all out the
one tiny window 24/7. They didn't *dare* strike a spark.

That's true, a double ended whammy.

Please remove the NGs where this is off-topic.

I didn't notice the sci.bio...group until you pointed it out. I'll
remove it from any future post. Cheers.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.

User: "Terraz Barabel"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	02 Apr 2006 05:08:04 PM

Budikka666 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Let me guess. A virus evoled into a virus, and it is now called... a
virus. I see
.

User: "Tim K."
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	02 Apr 2006 05:46:34 PM

"Terraz Barabel" <Xabriol@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144015684.197586.246250@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Budikka666 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Let me guess. A virus evoled into a virus, and it is now called... a
virus. I see

The important part is that you get that it evolved.
.

User: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F4ze_N._Kr=E2nz?="
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	02 Apr 2006 07:12:01 PM

"Tim K." <timkozz@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:evYXf.89151$_c.13229@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...

"Terraz Barabel" <Xabriol@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144015684.197586.246250@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Budikka666 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Let me guess. A virus evoled into a virus, and it is now called... a
virus. I see

The important part is that you get that it evolved.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Do you keep fish and aquariums in your home? If so, we would love to hear
about them. If not, then please remove the "rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc" NG
from your replies to this cross-posted off-topic thread. Our fish are
nonsectarian. :-)
Thanks
.

User: "The Watch Dog"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	02 Apr 2006 06:50:08 PM

Terraz Barabel wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Let me guess. A virus evoled into a virus, and it is now called... a
virus. I see

Then you can accept evolution. An animal evolved into an animal and is
now called... an animal. But of another species.
A primate evolved into a primate and is now called... a primate. Homo
sapiens.
That's evolution. You seem comfortable with it.
.

User: "R. Nunnely"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	02 Apr 2006 09:48:52 PM

"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144021808.515876.65200@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Terraz Barabel wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Let me guess. A virus evoled into a virus, and it is now called... a
virus. I see

Then you can accept evolution. An animal evolved into an animal and is
now called... an animal. But of another species.

A primate evolved into a primate and is now called... a primate. Homo
sapiens.

That's evolution. You seem comfortable with it.

=================
A Jehovah's Witness can be DFed and shunned like a Leper for agreeing that
evolution may have happened. The Watchtower teaches that there was a
magical fantastical CREATION and no one better question that... er,... WTS
fact.
Since this is off-topic for the aquarium people I removed that NG.
--
Nu........
http://silentlambs.org
www.freeminds.org
http://dbhome.dk/carlo/ secret Elder's Manual
"Where two or three are gathered together in MY name, I am in their midst:"
[Matt 18:20] No Watchtower Society needed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~~<{@
.

User: "Terraz Barabel"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	03 Apr 2006 09:27:24 AM

The Watch Dog wrote:

Terraz Barabel wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Let me guess. A virus evoled into a virus, and it is now called... a
virus. I see

Then you can accept evolution. An animal evolved into an animal and is
now called... an animal. But of another species.

sure a bird evoled into a donkey, not a problem since they are both
animals..yup.
.

User: "The Watch Dog"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	03 Apr 2006 01:26:31 PM

Terraz Barabel wrote:

The Watch Dog wrote:

Terraz Barabel wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Let me guess. A virus evoled into a virus, and it is now called... a
virus. I see

Then you can accept evolution. An animal evolved into an animal and is
now called... an animal. But of another species.

sure a bird evoled into a donkey, not a problem since they are both
animals..yup.

Of course, I didn't say that. But if a virus evolving into another
virus is unobjecionable because they're "both viruses," then what's the
problem with a chimp-like animal evolving into a human being, since
they're "both primates"?
.

User: "R. Nunnely"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	03 Apr 2006 03:05:45 PM

"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144088791.613117.137020@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...

Terraz Barabel wrote:

The Watch Dog wrote:

Terraz Barabel wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Let me guess. A virus evoled into a virus, and it is now called... a
virus. I see

Then you can accept evolution. An animal evolved into an animal and is
now called... an animal. But of another species.

sure a bird evoled into a donkey, not a problem since they are both
animals..yup.

====================
You can't rationalize or reason with a Jehovah's Witness CREATIONIST
(JABRIOL aka Terraz Barabel). If the bible said Goddidit, then by George
god created everything as you now see it!
BTW snip the irrelevant NGs like the *aquarium and fishkeepers* groups he
keeps adding to these cross-posted evolution/religion threads.
Thanks
--
Nu......
THE LIST OF AMAZING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CLAIMS, BELIEFS & PREDICTIONS
Prepared by "PB" may be found at the following websites:-
http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
http://www.concordance.com/watchtower.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~~{@
.

User: "Terraz Barabel"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	03 Apr 2006 02:11:24 PM

The Watch Dog wrote:

Terraz Barabel wrote:

The Watch Dog wrote:

Terraz Barabel wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4828078.stm

Budikka

Let me guess. A virus evoled into a virus, and it is now called... a
virus. I see

Then you can accept evolution. An animal evolved into an animal and is
now called... an animal. But of another species.

sure a bird evoled into a donkey, not a problem since they are both
animals..yup.

Defintions: A virus is unique and singular. Like a Chimp is. your
anology is misleading.
now if yousaid a virus is a germ, and bateria are germs and they
evolved, or a virus evolved into a bacteria or viceversa, then you got
something there.
I can take it farhter, Bananas have about 50% of genetic material that
humans do, therfore people are fruits...And fruit will evolve into
primates.
.

User: "The Watch Dog"
Title: Re: Avian Flu Speciates - Macroevolution in Action	04 Apr 2006 02:11:55 AM

Terraz Barabel wrote:

Defintions: A virus is unique and singular. Like a Chimp is. your
anology is misleading.

Absolute nonsense. "Virus" is an enormous category of very different
things. In fact, it covers a far, far greater range than "primate." If
you actually look at different viruses (under an electron microscope,
say), you'll see that they differ from each other far more than any two
primates do.
"Virus" is no more "unique and singular" than "animal" or "primate" is.
If one virus can mutate into a different virus, than there's no reason
why one primate can't evolve into a different primate.
.

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