| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fred Stone" |
| Date: |
02 Feb 2005 07:55:47 AM |
| Object: |
Ayn Rand's Birthday |
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Where am I to go, now that I've gone too far?
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| User: "SReeseMe" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
03 Feb 2005 07:13:33 AM |
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<< Subject: Ayn Rand's Birthday
From: Fred Stone
Date: Wed, Feb 2, 2005 8:55 AM
Message-id: <Xns95F15ADF150E5fstone69@205.188.138.161>
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Where am I to go, now that I've gone too far?
<BR><BR>
When fundies claim that all atheists are lefties or commies I tend to bring up
Ayn's name as a rebuttal. Should I be surprised that not many fundies know who
she is and fewer have actually read her work?
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
03 Feb 2005 07:12:45 AM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
There is always scientology.
--
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
03 Feb 2005 01:14:08 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:12:45 -0600, wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> said
in alt.atheism:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
There is always scientology.
For Fred there's always brainlessness.
--
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "eyelessgame" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
02 Feb 2005 07:19:31 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
Hm, fairly off-topic for alt.atheism to talk about the centenary of
such a religious icon, eh?
(kidding, partly. My biggest complaint with Randroids is that they're
so, well, /religious/ about her, and so religiously defensive about her
rather naive ideas.)
Rand does provide a service -- she has has shaken many readers,
particularly young ones, loose from prior dogma. If only she hadn't
simply replaced their dogma with another.
But she's hardly without influence disproportionate to the shallowness
of her understanding of human nature. Indeed, it's entirely possible
that as Marx was to the 20th Century, Rand shall be to the 21st.
Enough, almost, to make me regret there is not a hell; for otherwise
Karl and Ayn might have met there, and perhaps discovered how much they
had in common.
eyelessgame
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
02 Feb 2005 08:05:33 PM |
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"eyelessgame" <aamp@oro.net> wrote in
news:1107393571.297876.149880@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
Hm, fairly off-topic for alt.atheism to talk about the centenary of
such a religious icon, eh?
(kidding, partly. My biggest complaint with Randroids is that they're
so, well, /religious/ about her, and so religiously defensive about
her rather naive ideas.)
Rand does provide a service -- she has has shaken many readers,
particularly young ones, loose from prior dogma. If only she hadn't
simply replaced their dogma with another.
IMO, her "dogma" is more due to the personality of the Randroids than
her own philosophical material. Given a little tempering with humanity,
her basic ideas are really quite workable. Galt and Roark were extremes,
not really practical examples of real humanity.
The Terry Goodkind "Wizard's First Rule" fantasy series has turned out
to be a sort of homage to Rand, with a little more humanity built in.
But she's hardly without influence disproportionate to the shallowness
of her understanding of human nature. Indeed, it's entirely possible
that as Marx was to the 20th Century, Rand shall be to the 21st.
Enough, almost, to make me regret there is not a hell; for otherwise
Karl and Ayn might have met there, and perhaps discovered how much
they had in common.
Them's fighting words. :-)
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Where am I to go, now that I've gone too far?
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
03 Feb 2005 10:12:58 AM |
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eyelessgame wrote:
< snip >
Enough, almost, to make me regret there is not a hell; for otherwise
Karl and Ayn might have met there, and perhaps discovered how much they
had in common.
I wonder if L. Ron Hubbard would be invited?
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
04 Feb 2005 11:59:19 PM |
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In article <36f0saF518ha6U2@individual.net>,
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
eyelessgame wrote:
< snip >
Enough, almost, to make me regret there is not a hell; for otherwise
Karl and Ayn might have met there, and perhaps discovered how much they
had in common.
I wonder if L. Ron Hubbard would be invited?
No, he would be completely below the ice and not able to talk to anyone.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
02 Feb 2005 08:47:14 PM |
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On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:55:47 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> thought hard and said:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
I must admit that, despite being a diehard capitalist, I have yet to
read any of Ayn Rand's works.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
03 Feb 2005 12:36:37 AM |
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"Daniel Kolle" <DKolle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b443019hplqmbqrpp9vasgptiisgthnpvv@4ax.com...
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:55:47 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> thought hard and said:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
I must admit that, despite being a diehard capitalist, I have yet to
read any of Ayn Rand's works.
The only one of her books that is worth the paper it's
printed on is 'Anthem". I totally loathe "The Fountainhead"
(which you would probably enjoy) and would like to hang
its main character, Howard Roarke, outside a ten story
window by his family jewels.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
alt.atheism atheist/agnostic list name collector
BAAWA Knight & EAC Bible thumper thumper
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr
Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
03 Feb 2005 11:50:55 AM |
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"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in news:hpKdneayf4_
0W5zfRVn-3A@comcast.com:
"Daniel Kolle" <DKolle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b443019hplqmbqrpp9vasgptiisgthnpvv@4ax.com...
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:55:47 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> thought hard and said:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
I must admit that, despite being a diehard capitalist, I have yet to
read any of Ayn Rand's works.
The only one of her books that is worth the paper it's
printed on is 'Anthem". I totally loathe "The Fountainhead"
(which you would probably enjoy) and would like to hang
its main character, Howard Roarke, outside a ten story
window by his family jewels.
Gee, I wonder why, Ellsworth, whoops I mean Michelle.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Where am I to go, now that I've gone too far?
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| User: "Glenn Arnold" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
03 Feb 2005 06:45:47 PM |
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Michelle Malkin wrote:
"Daniel Kolle" <DKolle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b443019hplqmbqrpp9vasgptiisgthnpvv@4ax.com...
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:55:47 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> thought hard and said:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000524.html
I must admit that, despite being a diehard capitalist, I have yet to
read any of Ayn Rand's works.
The only one of her books that is worth the paper it's
printed on is 'Anthem". I totally loathe "The Fountainhead"
(which you would probably enjoy) and would like to hang
its main character, Howard Roarke, outside a ten story
window by his family jewels.
Hear hear! But actually I did like the book, not for her
altruism-selfishness reinvention, but for the Architecture Trip.
I'd like to see the book rewritten with the definitions of altruism and
selfishness reassigned to their correct values.
Never read Anthem. Should I?
Glenn Arnold
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| User: "George Dance" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
28 Feb 2005 01:42:50 PM |
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Glenn Arnold wrote:
Hear hear! But actually I did like the book, not for her
altruism-selfishness reinvention, but for the Architecture Trip.
I'd like to see the book rewritten with the definitions of altruism
and
selfishness reassigned to their correct values.
The words are merely labels; it's the concepts that they stand for that
are important. So let me ask you a related question, about those.
If you were doing a remake of /The Fountainhead/ movie, would you allow
the key line of Roark's climactic speech - "I am a man who does not
exist for others" - to appear? Or would you cut it as too
controversial, as it was cut in the original?
hers"
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
02 Feb 2005 11:01:10 PM |
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Daniel Kolle wrote:
I must admit that, despite being a diehard capitalist, I hav=ADe yet to
read any of Ayn Rand's works.
Ayn Rand is full of *****. Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations" is a far
more intelligent work on economics and capitalism.
-----
Yang
a=2Ea. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a=2Ea. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee =AD=ADKelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka oleka2
..=2E.@ya=ADhoo. com aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and wor=ADsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12 million FEWER job=ADs than
Clin=ADton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1437 GIs, one friend's
co-worker's son=AD and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
03 Feb 2005 05:03:02 PM |
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On 2 Feb 2005 21:01:10 -0800, "Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's
Cocaine Snorting *****" <eacmole@mail.com> thought hard and said:
Daniel Kolle wrote:
I must admit that, despite being a diehard capitalist, I have yet to
read any of Ayn Rand's works.
Ayn Rand is full of *****.
So I have heard. Her followers are quite fanatical, are they not?
Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations" is a far
more intelligent work on economics and capitalism.
As is von Mises "Human Action".
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
04 Feb 2005 02:31:20 AM |
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Daniel Kolle wrote:
On 2 Feb 2005 21:01:10 -0800, "Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's
Cocaine Snorting *****" <eacm...@mail.com> thought hard and said:
Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations" is a far
more intelligent work on economics and capitalism.
As is von Mises "Human Action".
Economists would take Von Mises more seriously were it not for his
position that empirical facts are un-needed for his conclusion. This is
why Neo-Classical economists won out and the Austrians school, in
particular the current von Mises wing, became and obscure brance in the
discipline, despite the fact that the two agree on many things and that
the marginal utility concept had originally come from the Austrian
school.
In a way, there is some analogy between Rand and von Mises- my
watertight syllogism and to hell with the real world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_school
"Austrian economists reject observation as a tool applicable to
economics, saying that while it is appropriate in the natural sciences
where factors can be isolated in laboratory conditions, acting human
beings are too complex for this treatment. Instead one should isolate
the logical processes of human action - a discipline named praxeology
by Ludwig von Mises."
-----
Yang
a=2Ea. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a=2Ea. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee =ADKelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka oleka2...@ya=ADhoo.com
aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12 million FEWER jobs than
Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1441 GIs, one friend's
co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
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| User: "LisaKay" |
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| Title: Re: Ayn Rand's Birthday |
28 Feb 2005 03:17:16 PM |
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You'd like her... particularly Atlas Shrugged. It's looooong, but
worth it. Of course, you have to take her with a grain of salt. If
you can do that, her books are very good, imo.
-LisaKay
aa #2054
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