Religions > Atheism > Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"words of truth" |
| Date: |
30 Oct 2005 07:06:15 PM |
| Object: |
Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
http://www.livejournal.com/users/holyoffice/43067.html
Magormissabib
Some of Fred Phelps' crew were in my neighborhood today, protesting at
the funeral of a Marine killed in Iraq. I couldn't manage to attend,
but a friend of mine covered it for his newspaper, and I'm interested
to hear the report.
Fred Phelps, in case you don't know, is the pastor of a small church
called Westboro Baptist, based in Kansas. "Church" is perhaps a
charitable assessment of what is basically a collection of his extended
family members.
Phelps and his family have become nationally famous for the sheer
vitriol of their hatred of gays, and all things they believe are
related to gays. They came to prominence by protesting the funeral of
Matthew Shephard, a gay University of Wyoming student whose murder
sparked nationwide outcry. Phelps and Co. stood outside the funeral
home, holding signs aloft bearing messages that Shephard was in Hell,
that God hated gays, and other things you might not expect to see at a
funeral.
I had always just assumed that Phelps represented the furthest outreach
of extremism on the subject of homosexuality and its relation to
traditional Christianity. But today, doing some reading, I discovered
that there's nothing remotely "traditional" about Westboro Baptist.
In fact, it appears that Westboro has created not just an incredibly
vulgar and non-Christlike approach to homosexuality, but that it's
working on a new religion altogether, complete with new scriptures.
Members of WBC generally avoid the name "Christian" when referring to
themselves, preferring the mysterious term "Tachmonite." This
apparently refers to a servant of King David's, but I'm not sure of the
derivation or the intention.
The Tachmonites believe Phelps is "the last prophet," with the power to
determine who will be damned and who will be saved. They themselves, as
followers of Phelps, also have the power to condemn souls to hell. Most
people are destined for hell, but "Good Samaritans" who help the
Tachmonites (for example, police officers who prevent
counter-protesters from assaulting them) may be offered an
indeterminate "reward" for their good conduct. Apparently "sola fide"
is not part of the Tachmonites' creed.
The new scriptures consist of the group's own writings, which are
divided into two categories: "delectable epics" and "letters to
heretics."
The "delectable epics" (the term is the group's) are based loosely on
Acts in the New Testament. The epics detail the Tachmonites' various
protests against gays, President Bush, Elton John concerts, and the
military and portray the Tachmonites alternately as invincible "super
heroes" and defenseless victims of brutal rage. Some of the epics are
in prose, and some in poetry.
"Letters to heretics" are meant to emulate St. Paul's letters to the
Corinthians. They are responses to people who have allegedly written to
the web site, although these people are never identified by name, but
rather by childish nicknames like "Mr. Goofy Pants" and "Suzy Vulgar."
There are also "letters to heretics" addressed to politicians and
celebrities like Goldie Hawn and Sam Waterston.
Some of the flavor of the writings can be found in this Wikipedia
article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writings_by_Westboro_Baptist_Church
The writings are fascinating. They are slang-ridden, often composed by
the teenage members of the church (the group literally consists of
Phelps, his extended family, and their extended families, with a few
hangers-on not related to him by blood), and they bear almost no
relation to the usual writings of religious fanatics.
To begin with, they are usually well-written, or at least conscious of
an idiom other than the religious fanatic's favored Bizarre Rant. They
are readable, at least, which is more than I can say for the stack of
newsletters I got in the mail yesterday from Tridentine Bishop James
Dolan's group.
The tone of most religious fanatics is dead serious. By contrast, here
is a Tachmonite describing a protest in Louisiana:
"Our first protest was outside First Presbyterian Church. It was small
and there wasn't much traffic, which made it a perfect podium to preach
some gospel truth to these desperately deprived dingbats. There were
three hail-fellow-well-met greeters who heard way more than they wanted
to hear from these saucy Tishbites ["Tishbite" is an uncommonly-used
equivalent to "Tachmonite," apparently]. Ten minutes after we arrived,
an effeminate Catholic in a 'Stop Hatred' t-shirt kneeled down on the
sidewalk fifteen feet from us and started rotely praying to Mary. So,
we broke out in 'The Pope, the Pope, the Pope is on fire - He don't get
no water, let that heretic burn,' each of us in turn correcting his
misguided, hypocritical religious farce. Also, we had to give a
remedial course in Professionalism 101 to a state trooper for saying,
'It's a good day to be Catholic.'"
For anyone who has experienced the sleep-inducing power of a
sedevacantist explaining why the pope is a heretic, or of a Calvinist
explaining eternal depravity for Catholics based on 500 Bible verses,
this is very different stuff.
In this "epic,"
(http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/epics/20050207_real-patriots-inauguration.pdf)
detailing their protest at Bush's 2005 inauguration, the Tachmonite
doesn't even use the word "God" until the eighth of nine pages. Most of
the work is taken up with describing the annoying plane flight into
Washington, the agonies of waiting in line to use the women's bathroom,
and the overpowering police presence at the inauguration. Until the
last page, where the boilerplate kicks in, it could have been the
journal of a liberal protester at the inauguration.
Many of the "epics" don't contain Bible citations, or contain only a
few. The language in many of them recalls deliberate parody, as if a
liberal critic were writing a fanciful account of the "fundamentalist"
mind:
"I also suggested, in love, that it would have been infinitely less
filthy for these phony, crop-headed heifers to have stayed at home and
wallowed around in a bath tub full of their own crap than to have
stepped over the threshold of such an evil place," the Tachmonite
writes, "in love," of an encounter with some Franciscan Friars of the
Renewal in Massachusetts.
To be honest, I have long suspected that Fred Phelps is some kind of
demented performance artist, and that his "ministry" is an elaborate
joke. It's simply too over the top, too ridiculous (one of his many web
sites features a computer game in which the player tries to keep
"sodomites" - represented by pink swastikas - from "raping children,"
represented by milk bottles) to be genuine.
After the reading I did today, though, I sort of worry that this isn't
performance art, that it's dead serious. The stuff about Tachmonites
and "the last prophet" and their code word "magormissabib" ("terror on
all sides," an obscure reference to a king condemned by Jeremiah - but
in Tachmonite usage, "magormissabib" is a word of praise) is the real
stuff of religious fanaticism.
That means there is a group of maybe 60 people, including a large
number of children, which has created a new religion based on scattered
references in the Bible to homosexuality. As an amateur student of
heresy, I'm riveted; as a Christian and a human being, I'm depressed.
.
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
30 Oct 2005 09:54:41 PM |
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So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Paul
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| User: "Jesus is the way" |
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| Title: Liberal outrage! |
31 Oct 2005 05:31:54 AM |
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Liberal Democrats Vote Against America
Christian Community Crier
Monday, October 31, 2005
(Washington) Despite economic weaknesses and an
obvious need to protect the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans,
not a single Democratic member of the House Agricultural
Committee voted with the Republicans to throw 300,000 Americans
off of food stamps. [link: http://tinyurl.com/bg2g4 ]
The vote, which took place Friday, occured on the same day in
which a USDA report was released demonstrating that hunger
was on the rise in America. The USDA report, released by the
Bush administration, found that 11.9% of U.S. households had
some difficulty providing enough food for all their members, at
some point during the year. This report, insisted top Christian
Republicans, together with an earlier government report
showing that poverty had also risen every year of the Bush
administration, only serves to demonstrate the present weaknesses
in the economy, and the need to subsidize large corporations and
millionaires on the backs of ordinary Americans.
One liberal Democrat, G.K. Butterfield, not only shamelessly
defended his vote to preserve food assistance at a time when
hunger is on the rise in America, but mocked his patriotic
Christian Republican opponents with his secular reasoning.
"That is not moral. That is not American," Representative
Butterfield said, refering to the decisive Republican vote to
cut benefits to the needy while protecting the Bush
administration's give-aways to the rich. However, when cornered
and pressed on the matter, even Representative Butterfield had
to admit that the food stamp program does not provide a lot of
benefit.
"This is not a giveaway program that results in windfall
profits," Representative Butterfield conceded.
Another liberal Democrat, Earl Pomeroy of North Dakota,
whined about 40,000 children losing free meals at
school because of these cuts, as if that were a bad thing.
"You have not even come clean that kids are going to lose
school breakfast and school lunch under this," Representative
Pomeroy said, apparently forgetting that he was speaking to
Republicans, the true representatives of Christ on Earth.
Vote Christ! Vote Republican!
More information: http://tinyurl.com/88kfu
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| User: "The Secretary of HomInt3rn" |
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| Title: Re: Liberal outrage! |
31 Oct 2005 06:46:44 AM |
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I was busily flonking away in alt.politics.homosexuality, when The Goddess
Eris Herself suddenly made me reply to Jesus is the way:
"You have not even come clean that kids are going to lose
school breakfast and school lunch under this," Representative
Pomeroy said, apparently forgetting that he was speaking to
Republicans, the true representatives of Christ on Earth.
Oh, you've gotta be taking the *****.
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! "The personal _is_ political."
Bent Depraved N. Deviant *****-Smoker, Esq., Superfaggot; Cross-Poster for
Goddess
"Stupidity excuses nothing. It's only a reason...." -- Phxbrd
Economic Left/Right: -7.63 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
"The whining has just begun." -- John Wentzky
Killfiled by: directory; Anim8rfsk
"It's not nice to misrepresent Mother Nature."
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| User: "Treasurer of AnarchIntern" |
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| Title: Re: Liberal outrage! |
31 Oct 2005 07:12:22 AM |
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The Secretary of HomInt3rn wrote:
I was busily flonking away in alt.politics.homosexuality, when The Goddess
Eris Herself suddenly made me reply to Jesus is the way:
"You have not even come clean that kids are going to lose
school breakfast and school lunch under this," Representative
Pomeroy said, apparently forgetting that he was speaking to
Republicans, the true representatives of Christ on Earth.
Oh, you've gotta be taking the *****.
Yup. It's <gymraven> again...
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! "The personal _is_ political."
Bent Depraved N. Deviant *****-Smoker, Esq., Superfaggot; Cross-Poster
for
Goddess
"Stupidity excuses nothing. It's only a reason...." -- Phxbrd
Economic Left/Right: -7.63 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
"The whining has just begun." -- John Wentzky
Killfiled by: directory; Anim8rfsk
"It's not nice to misrepresent Mother Nature."
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Liberal outrage! |
31 Oct 2005 10:25:32 AM |
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"Treasurer of AnarchIntern" <popesnarky@gmail.com> wrote
Yup. It's <gymraven> again...
Well thank goodness you said something!
After all, we wouldn't want anyone's ideas to be challenged.
At least not during a time like this when everything is going
so great!
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Liberal outrage! |
31 Oct 2005 05:26:03 PM |
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in article NeidnTaUjKm_Y_jeRVn-qg@comcast.com, Jesus is the way at
gymraven@hotmail.com wrote on 10/31/05 6:31 AM:
Liberal Democrats Vote Against America
Christian Community Crier
Monday, October 31, 2005
(Washington) Despite economic weaknesses and an
obvious need to protect the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans,
not a single Democratic member of the House Agricultural
Committee voted with the Republicans to throw 300,000 Americans
off of food stamps. [link: http://tinyurl.com/bg2g4 ]
The vote, which took place Friday, occured on the same day in
which a USDA report was released demonstrating that hunger
was on the rise in America. The USDA report, released by the
Bush administration, found that 11.9% of U.S. households had
some difficulty providing enough food for all their members, at
some point during the year. This report, insisted top Christian
Republicans, together with an earlier government report
showing that poverty had also risen every year of the Bush
administration, only serves to demonstrate the present weaknesses
in the economy, and the need to subsidize large corporations and
millionaires on the backs of ordinary Americans.
One liberal Democrat, G.K. Butterfield, not only shamelessly
defended his vote to preserve food assistance at a time when
hunger is on the rise in America, but mocked his patriotic
Christian Republican opponents with his secular reasoning.
"That is not moral. That is not American," Representative
Butterfield said, refering to the decisive Republican vote to
cut benefits to the needy while protecting the Bush
administration's give-aways to the rich. However, when cornered
and pressed on the matter, even Representative Butterfield had
to admit that the food stamp program does not provide a lot of
benefit.
"This is not a giveaway program that results in windfall
profits," Representative Butterfield conceded.
Another liberal Democrat, Earl Pomeroy of North Dakota,
whined about 40,000 children losing free meals at
school because of these cuts, as if that were a bad thing.
"You have not even come clean that kids are going to lose
school breakfast and school lunch under this," Representative
Pomeroy said, apparently forgetting that he was speaking to
Republicans, the true representatives of Christ on Earth.
Vote Christ! Vote Republican!
You're going over the heads of folks like Duke...they make so much
money, their wives can stay home and feed their kids at lunch, while home
schooling them in godly ways and pie-in-the-sky rewards.
Paul
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Liberal outrage! |
31 Oct 2005 06:26:42 PM |
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"Paul Duca" <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote
You're going over the heads of folks like Duke...
Oh, like that's an accomplishment. After all, there are not
many Saturday morning cartoons the people like that
could understand, even if you explained it to them.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
30 Oct 2005 10:13:16 PM |
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Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus' own
definition.
TCross
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
30 Oct 2005 10:29:41 PM |
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"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus' own
definition.
TCross
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he turned
and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters. Yea, and his
own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
30 Oct 2005 10:58:32 PM |
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Woden wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus' own
definition.
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he turned
and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters. Yea, and his
own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
Such a difference a word makes:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
25 Now huge crowds were going along with [Jesus], and He turned and
said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother
[[a]in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in
comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and
children and brothers and sisters--[yes] and even his own life also--he
cannot be My disciple.
TCross
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
31 Oct 2005 03:18:12 PM |
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"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130734712.094134.71420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Woden wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus'
own definition.
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he
turned and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his
father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and
sisters. Yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
Such a difference a word makes:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
25 Now huge crowds were going along with [Jesus], and He turned and
said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother
[[a]in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in
comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and
children and brothers and sisters--[yes] and even his own life
also--he cannot be My disciple.
TCross
So, tell me how to decide which version of the bible is the real and true
word of god? Just the one that agrees with you?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
31 Oct 2005 02:26:21 PM |
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"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130734712.094134.71420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Woden wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus'
own definition.
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he turned
and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters. Yea, and
his own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
Such a difference a word makes:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
25 Now huge crowds were going along with [Jesus], and He turned and
said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother
[[a]in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in
comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and
children and brothers and sisters--[yes] and even his own life also--he
cannot be My disciple.
TCross
Right, when you don't like what your book says just change it to say what
you would prefer it to say. Forget it. To be a true(tm) christian you have
to be able to drink poison without being harmed and give all your money to
the church. I have never heard of anyone who qualifies on both counts.
klazmon.
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
30 Oct 2005 11:03:43 PM |
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"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130734712.094134.71420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Woden wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus'
own definition.
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he
turned and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his
father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and
sisters. Yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
Such a difference a word makes:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
What the hell is an "Amplified Bible"? Somebody corrects God? Somebody
gets to be God's editor?
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
The moral and religious teachings of no bible reach a higher altitude
than the intelligence and mental development of the age and country which
produced it.
-- Kersey Graves
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
31 Oct 2005 08:47:28 AM |
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Enkidu the Atheist wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130734712.094134.71420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Woden wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus'
own definition.
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he
turned and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his
father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and
sisters. Yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
Such a difference a word makes:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
What the hell is an "Amplified Bible"? Somebody corrects God? Somebody
gets to be God's editor?
Yup. The Amplified Bible and the Living Bible (Paraphrased) are where they
throw away what Scriptures *really* say and make it say exactly what they
*want* it to say. It is the logical progression of what Christians have been
doing for centuries.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[W]e have never held that moral disapproval, without any other asserted
state interest, is a sufficient rationale under the Equal Protection
Clause to justify a law that discriminates among groups of persons."
- Sandra Day O`Conner, _Lawrence v Texas_
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=02-102
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
01 Nov 2005 12:19:30 AM |
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On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:47:28 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
Enkidu the Atheist wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130734712.094134.71420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Woden wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus'
own definition.
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he
turned and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his
father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and
sisters. Yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
Such a difference a word makes:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
What the hell is an "Amplified Bible"? Somebody corrects God? Somebody
gets to be God's editor?
Yup. The Amplified Bible and the Living Bible (Paraphrased) are where they
throw away what Scriptures *really* say and make it say exactly what they
*want* it to say. It is the logical progression of what Christians have been
doing for centuries.
Sort of like what both political extremes do with the Constitution.
<G>
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| User: "Piranha tank missionaries" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
31 Oct 2005 02:12:13 AM |
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It started with a Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is
Not A Christian.
Who (other than "Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com>) would have
guessed it would end like:
Woden wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus' own
definition.
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he turned
and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters. Yea, and his
own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
Such a difference a word makes:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
25 Now huge crowds were going along with [Jesus], and He turned and
said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother
[[a]in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in
comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and
children and brothers and sisters--[yes] and even his own life also--he
cannot be My disciple.
TCross
IOW, to be a true Christian, you must first make sure all your family
are at home, and then suicide bomb them.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
01 Nov 2005 12:17:27 AM |
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On 30 Oct 2005 20:58:32 -0800, "Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Woden wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus' own
definition.
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he turned
and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters. Yea, and his
own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
Such a difference a word makes:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
25 Now huge crowds were going along with [Jesus], and He turned and
said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother
[[a]in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in
comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and
children and brothers and sisters--[yes] and even his own life also--he
cannot be My disciple.
"I'm sure you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you
understand that what you heard was not what I meant."
So Jesus was an ancestor of Richard Nixon. Who'da thought? <G>
TCross
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
31 Oct 2005 10:31:39 AM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
Woden wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1130731996.195195.254230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Paul Duca wrote:
So...you say TRUE Christians don't hate gays?
Or it's simply enough to love bomb them straight?
Followers of Jesus do not indulge in hatred of any kind - by Jesus' own
definition.
Luke14:25-26. And there went great multitudes with him, and he turned
and said unto them, "If any man come to me and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters. Yea, and his
own life also, he cannot be my disciple"
Sounds like your bible contradicts what you think.
Such a difference a word makes:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
25 Now huge crowds were going along with [Jesus], and He turned and
said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother
[[a]in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in
comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and
children and brothers and sisters--[yes] and even his own life also--he
cannot be My disciple.
Ah. So that's another instance of the bible not meaning what it says.
You'd think an omniscient god would have made more of an effort to
avoid the problem.
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
31 Oct 2005 10:42:42 AM |
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"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort"
<jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1130776299.370172.189520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Terry Cross wrote:
Luke 14:25-26 (Amplified Bible)
25 Now huge crowds were going along with [Jesus], and He turned and
said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother
[[a]in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in
comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and
children and brothers and sisters--[yes] and even his own life also--he
cannot be My disciple.
Ah. So that's another instance of the bible not meaning what it says.
It's translated as 'hate' in Young's Literal Translation, too. But,
obviously, that's 'hate' in the sense of 'still being quite fond of, not at
all feeling hostility or detestation towards...'. You know, the sense people
normally use it -- like when they say 'Mom, I can't talk on the phone right
now, because I have to be off to church; but I'll be round to see you and
Dad for lunch because I really fucking hate you both...'
You'd think an omniscient god would have made more of an effort to
avoid the problem.
Indeeed. Like providing a *toll-free number* for people to call, maybe...??
Katt.
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
31 Oct 2005 12:01:23 AM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> plays the bagpipes.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
30 Oct 2005 09:53:46 PM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote in
news:1130720775.739483.56750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/holyoffice/43067.html
Of course he can't be a "true xian", he doesn't believe the same things you
believe.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "• Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
31 Oct 2005 12:17:40 PM |
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How is Phelp's teachings on homosexuality any different from YOURS?
--
Pax Christi,
• Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
Jesus is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
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| User: "The Secretary of HomInt3rn" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
30 Oct 2005 10:05:08 PM |
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I was busily flonking away in alt.politics.homosexuality, when The Goddess
Eris Herself suddenly made me reply to words of truth:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/holyoffice/43067.html
I hear bagpipes...
Magormissabib
<snip>
The "delectable epics" (the term is the group's) are based loosely on
Acts in the New Testament. The epics detail the Tachmonites' various
protests against gays, President Bush, Elton John concerts, and the
military and portray the Tachmonites alternately as invincible "super
heroes" and defenseless victims of brutal rage. Some of the epics are
in prose, and some in poetry.
Incidentally, you ought to be aware that the opposite of a fanatic is not a
liberal, or a conservative. It's another fanatic. Hence, Bush and Phelps
*can* be opposites, while at the same time both being conservative extreme
right-wingers.
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! "The personal _is_ political."
Bent Depraved N. Deviant *****-Smoker, Esq., Superfaggot; Cross-Poster for
Goddess
"Stupidity excuses nothing. It's only a reason...." -- Phxbrd
Economic Left/Right: -7.63 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
"The whining has just begun." -- John Wentzky
Killfiled by: directory; Anim8rfsk
"It's not nice to misrepresent Mother Nature."
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
30 Oct 2005 10:14:51 PM |
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The Secretary of HomInt3rn wrote:
I was busily flonking away in alt.politics.homosexuality, when The Goddess
Eris Herself suddenly made me reply to words of truth:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/holyoffice/43067.html
I hear bagpipes...
Magormissabib
<snip>
The "delectable epics" (the term is the group's) are based loosely on
Acts in the New Testament. The epics detail the Tachmonites' various
protests against gays, President Bush, Elton John concerts, and the
military and portray the Tachmonites alternately as invincible "super
heroes" and defenseless victims of brutal rage. Some of the epics are
in prose, and some in poetry.
Incidentally, you ought to be aware that the opposite of a fanatic is not a
liberal, or a conservative. It's another fanatic. Hence, Bush and Phelps
*can* be opposites, while at the same time both being conservative extreme
right-wingers.
Would you say that George Bush and Fred Phelps are from opposite sects?
TCross
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| User: "The Secretary of HomInt3rn" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
30 Oct 2005 11:19:45 PM |
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I was busily flonking away in alt.politics.homosexuality, when The Goddess
Eris Herself suddenly made me reply to Terry Cross:
The Secretary of HomInt3rn wrote:
I was busily flonking away in alt.politics.homosexuality, when The
Goddess Eris Herself suddenly made me reply to words of truth:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/holyoffice/43067.html
I hear bagpipes...
Magormissabib
<snip>
The "delectable epics" (the term is the group's) are based loosely on
Acts in the New Testament. The epics detail the Tachmonites' various
protests against gays, President Bush, Elton John concerts, and the
military and portray the Tachmonites alternately as invincible "super
heroes" and defenseless victims of brutal rage. Some of the epics are
in prose, and some in poetry.
Incidentally, you ought to be aware that the opposite of a fanatic is not
a liberal, or a conservative. It's another fanatic. Hence, Bush and
Phelps *can* be opposites, while at the same time both being conservative
extreme right-wingers.
Would you say that George Bush and Fred Phelps are from opposite sects?
Uh, no. The opposite of one fanatic is always another fanatic, and, indeed,
all other fanatics who don't explicitly agree with hir. This does make it
rather difficult to depict such an array of opponents, mind you, without at
least a holographic projector, or possibly even a tesseract, since there
are so many fanatics disagreeing with one another...
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! "The personal _is_ political."
Bent Depraved N. Deviant *****-Smoker, Esq., Superfaggot; Cross-Poster for
Goddess
"Stupidity excuses nothing. It's only a reason...." -- Phxbrd
Economic Left/Right: -7.63 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
"The whining has just begun." -- John Wentzky
Killfiled by: directory; Anim8rfsk
"It's not nice to misrepresent Mother Nature."
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Bad News For Liberals: "Pastor" Fred Phelps Is Not A Christian |
31 Oct 2005 08:51:03 AM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, words of truth poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/holyoffice/43067.html
Magormissabib
Gesundheit.
Play us a tune, McTavish.
....
Regards,
Josef
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.
-- Oscar Wilde
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