| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"har har" |
| Date: |
12 Jul 2004 08:11:24 AM |
| Object: |
Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
Whether we're pro or con, the often heard argument that a ban of
same-sex marriages constitutes discrimination of gay couples needs
rectification:
Two heterosexuals of the same sex are also not allowed to marry.
;-)
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
16 Jul 2004 01:39:11 PM |
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On 16 Jul 2004 11:30:56 -0700, (Jonathan Swift)
wrote:
Then why are so many Christians all of these, when their own
definition of Christianity id trying to do the things Jesus did?
Romans 3:23 "For all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of
god"
We're in the real world now. If all you can do is spout bible verses
then you have nothing to say.
We all sin,
Speak for yourself, bleater.
Im not hear to debate religion,
Neither are we, moron.
I am just supporting my
views backed by my beliefs
Which are irrelevant. You have to support them using reality instead
of talking AT us as though your beliefs were rue.
You all should put down the "How an atheaist can argue against
christianity" book and answer my questions to you, you guys are all
What "how an atheist can argue against Christianity" book would that
be, liar?
inteligent in some way I know you can say more than Christianity isn't
true, how about answering a few of my questions from the post bellow
How about backing up your ridiculous religious bleating, from reality.
And when you realise you can't, shutting up?
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
17 Jul 2004 05:58:27 PM |
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:15:20 -0700 in episode
<1675067a.0407150415.21470a60@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift):
I have scene 2 male dogs humping, but I just figured they were sex
driven.
Um... sex driven sex?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
.
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| User: "Jonathan Swift" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 12:17:16 PM |
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Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent
make it right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans
to kill each other, have inbreaded sex?
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal
sex, and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you. Also I
have stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay,
please state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your
darwin beliefs.
Also the bible says when a man lies with another man in the way he
lies with a woman it is an abomination(follwing up a post bellow)
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| User: "Dennis Kemmerer" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 12:37:16 PM |
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"Jonathan Swift" <swift_83@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1675067a.0407180917.161b7233@posting.google.com...
Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent
make it right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans
to kill each other, have inbreaded sex?
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal
sex, and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you. Also I
have stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay,
please state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your
darwin beliefs.
Also the bible says when a man lies with another man in the way he
lies with a woman it is an abomination(follwing up a post bellow)
Grow a fucking brain.
[plonk]
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| User: "Jonathan Swift" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 07:25:02 PM |
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Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be accepted as
what they "are", what about people who like to kill, have sex with
their family, cut themselves, touch children, etc. obviously something
is wrong with these people, many killers are said to have brain
disorders, based on your beliefs a person of that nature should be
allowed to practice what they "are." I am sorry but in no way could I
ever believe that homosexuality is natural and not a choice(or in some
way emotional implied by a person convincing themselves they are gay)
I have seen people grow up normal, no signs of homosexuality and then
they turn that way, I have seen many people turn away from
homosexuality. I have even heard homosexuals say they choose to do
what they do because it arouses them or they like the sexuality. Given
my experiences and my beliefs its just something I can never say is
natural, you can call me narrow minded, a bigot or whatever, but I
would argue that you all think only in one way also based on your
beliefs and experiences. There is absolutely no evidence that people
are born gay, you can research through your DNA, genes, brain, It is
something that happens to people while they are alive, it could be a
lack of a father figure, a great feeling of insecurity, feelings of
rejection, who knows, (I believe some people are more susceptible than
others)but I think to say that people are born in such a way is wrong.
Although you people would most likely love anarchy where we had no
laws, through out history there has been law and order, we have never
seen such immorality ever, I blame it on society, I think if
homosexuality was illegal, there would be far-far-far less cases. It
would still exist on the reasoning that people choose to do what they
want to, face it although homosexuality has existed for thousands of
years, it has always been looked at as a crime and usually lead to a
punishment of death. Now in today's America we could never do such a
thing, I say if its not illegal let people do what they want but I
just hate seeing homosexuals perform homosexual acts in my presence or
in front of children, and although there is a separation of church and
state, the lord was mentioned in the constitution, bill of rights, and
as "our creator" in the deceleration, so it is a fact that this
country was built by christians, however the laws and constitution
have too many loop holes that have given this extreme behavior and
extreme left wing views room to enter into society. I would die for my
country and consider myself a very patriotic individual, however
lately I have questioned what the flag represents, I would not feel
like America would be the same as it was if such things as
gay-marriage were legalized, I think it would have the founding
fathers turning in their graves. However on the bright side of things
for me, I remain a larger majority, more people oppose gay marriage
than support it, more people believe in God than don't, and as long as
the majority stays in those views I should not have to worry too much.
I say put the question on a ballot, let the people decide. I am just
frustrated that 5 appointed judges can make a decision against the
views of the majority of the people. Please reason with me here and
see why I think it is unfair. Also what about my pursue of happiness,
homosexuals don't make me happy. They don't make a majority of people
happy. I just hate seeing small minorities of people trying to
re-write history when the majority of people oppose it.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 10:12:40 PM |
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"Jonathan Swift" <swift_83@yahoo.com> wrote
Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be
accepted as what they "are",
"Are."
what about people who like to kill, have sex with [...]
"Do."
"What they are." "What they do."
We punish people for actions. We punish people for actions which
hurt other people.
Robbing a bank or murder hurts someone. Being gay does not. Acting
on your homosexual attractions does not.
Please get over yourself. Now.
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| User: "Letao" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
19 Jul 2004 04:59:32 PM |
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In article <1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com>,
(Jonathan Swift) wrote:
Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be accepted as
what they "are", what about people who like to kill, have sex with
their family, cut themselves, touch children, etc. obviously something
is wrong with these people, many killers are said to have brain
disorders, based on your beliefs a person of that nature should be
allowed to practice what they "are."
In each of the examples you mention someone is hurt.
I am sorry but in no way could I
ever believe that homosexuality is natural and not a choice(or in some
way emotional implied by a person convincing themselves they are gay)
You would rather wallow in your willful ignorance.
I have seen people grow up normal, no signs of homosexuality and then
they turn that way, I have seen many people turn away from
homosexuality. I have even heard homosexuals say they choose to do
what they do because it arouses them or they like the sexuality.
Liar.
Given
my experiences and my beliefs its just something I can never say is
natural, you can call me narrow minded, a bigot or whatever, but I
would argue that you all think only in one way also based on your
beliefs and experiences.
Tell us about your homosexual experiences.
There is absolutely no evidence that people
are born gay, you can research through your DNA, genes, brain, It is
something that happens to people while they are alive, it could be a
lack of a father figure, a great feeling of insecurity, feelings of
rejection, who knows, (I believe some people are more susceptible than
others)but I think to say that people are born in such a way is wrong.
Why does it matter to you so much that being gay is a choice rather than
an inherent trait? I've asked you this before...so what if it were a
choice? You haven't offered a single coherent reason for why it is an
invalid/bad/wrong choice.
Although you people would most likely love anarchy where we had no
laws, through out history there has been law and order, we have never
seen such immorality ever, I blame it on society, I think if
homosexuality was illegal, there would be far-far-far less cases.
You need a remedial course in human history.
It
would still exist on the reasoning that people choose to do what they
want to, face it although homosexuality has existed for thousands of
years, it has always been looked at as a crime and usually lead to a
punishment of death.
Still longing for the "good ol' days" are you?
Now in today's America we could never do such a
thing, I say if its not illegal let people do what they want but I
just hate seeing homosexuals perform homosexual acts in my presence or
in front of children,
What acts do homosexuals perform that heterosexuals don't also perform?
and although there is a separation of church and
state, the lord was mentioned in the constitution, bill of rights, and
as "our creator" in the deceleration, so it is a fact that this
country was built by christians, however the laws and constitution
have too many loop holes that have given this extreme behavior and
extreme left wing views room to enter into society.
Face it. Freedom is not for your benefit only. It applies to everyone.
I would die for my
country and consider myself a very patriotic individual,
When are you heading to Iraq or Afghanistan? (Personally, I believe
you're a liar and would never sacrifice your life or anything else for
your country, which includes your fellow gay citizens by the way.)
however
lately I have questioned what the flag represents, I would not feel
like America would be the same as it was if such things as
gay-marriage were legalized, I think it would have the founding
fathers turning in their graves.
I think it's safe to say that your "feelings" are irrelevant to how your
fellow law-abiding citizens conduct their lives.
However on the bright side of things
for me, I remain a larger majority, more people oppose gay marriage
than support it, more people believe in God than don't, and as long as
the majority stays in those views I should not have to worry too much.
You're not part of the "majority." You're part of a small band of vocal
religious whack jobs who think they have the divine right to dictate how
other people should live their lives. Good thing we have a Constitution
and a Bill of Rights that limit your abuse and inteference.
I say put the question on a ballot, let the people decide. I am just
frustrated that 5 appointed judges can make a decision against the
views of the majority of the people.
Add a remedial civics class to that one on history. You have some
serious delusions about our form of government.
Please reason with me here and
see why I think it is unfair.
I'd love to reason with you, but you're incapable.
Also what about my pursue of happiness,
It doesn't include dictating how others live their lives.
homosexuals don't make me happy. They don't make a majority of people
happy. I just hate seeing small minorities of people trying to
re-write history when the majority of people oppose it.
I hate seeing small minorities such as yours trying to rewrite history.
I also hate seeing the appalling ignorance you've displayed since you
began posting. I blame it on your poor education and religious
brainwashing that have resulted in your willful ignorance.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
19 Jul 2004 05:36:13 PM |
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On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:59:32 +0000 in episode
<letao-078DC4.17593119072004@netnews.comcast.net> we saw our hero Letao
<letao@fire.and.fishing.net>:
In article <1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com>,
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift) wrote:
I have seen people grow up normal, no signs of homosexuality and then
they turn that way, I have seen many people turn away from
homosexuality. I have even heard homosexuals say they choose to do what
they do because it arouses them or they like the sexuality.
Liar.
Or just stupid. What, after all, are "signs of homosexuality?" I bet he's
thinking in pure stereotypes.
Far as gays "choosing to do what they because it arouses them or they like
the sexuality," well... DUH. <g>
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
20 Jul 2004 07:07:32 PM |
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On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:36:13 -0500, Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:59:32 +0000 in episode
<letao-078DC4.17593119072004@netnews.comcast.net> we saw our hero Letao
<letao@fire.and.fishing.net>:
In article <1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com>,
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift) wrote:
I have seen people grow up normal, no signs of homosexuality and then
they turn that way, I have seen many people turn away from
homosexuality. I have even heard homosexuals say they choose to do what
they do because it arouses them or they like the sexuality.
Liar.
Or just stupid. What, after all, are "signs of homosexuality?" I bet he's
thinking in pure stereotypes.
Gawrsch....What are the 'signs of a christian?'
Matt 24 (kjv)
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,
if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mark 16
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe;
In my name shall they cast out devils; they
shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they
drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
they shall lay hands on the sick, and they
shall recover.
Based on the Bible, there are no believers.
Based on the Bible, "Jesus" is a false prophet.
Far as gays "choosing to do what they because it arouses them or they like
the sexuality," well... DUH. <g>
Just as the Christian clergy do with little boys.
Just as "Jonathan" does with his wife.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 08:22:04 PM |
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In article <1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com>, swift_83
@yahoo.com says...
Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be accepted as
what they "are", what about people who like to kill, have sex with
their family, cut themselves, touch children, etc.
[snip irrelevant crap]
Not the same at all. Sane adult humans are able to give informed
consent to be party to a relationship, and to remove that consent. Your
straw men fall.
--
"Go forth, and be excellent to each other"
- Bill & Ted
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
19 Jul 2004 12:32:35 AM |
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In our last thrilling episode, (Jonathan Swift) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 18 Jul 2004 17:25:02 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be accepted as
what they "are", what about people who like to kill, have sex with
their family, cut themselves, touch children, etc.
Well, killing people and molesting kids have nothing to do with
consenting relationships between adults, so we can discard them. I
know people who get scars for decoration. That is their choice. I
myself have a tattoo, and am planning on getting more. My choice.
The fact that I choose to decorate my skin with colored ink does not
cause you any harm.
What kind of incest? Consenting relationships between adults? As
long as they take precautions against pregnancy, I have no objection.
obviously something
is wrong with these people, many killers are said to have brain
disorders, based on your beliefs a person of that nature should be
allowed to practice what they "are."
*Some*. Not all. Most killings come from moments of anger, or over
money (legal or illegal), or for other stupid reasons. The number of
people who just kill for fun is tiny.
I am sorry but in no way could I
ever believe that homosexuality is natural and not a choice(or in some
way emotional implied by a person convincing themselves they are gay)
I have seen people grow up normal, no signs of homosexuality and then
they turn that way,
That's called coming out of the closet. I didn't emerge until I was
29. That's a decade of adulthood, in the Army and in life, not
admitting to anyone (even myself) that I was bi.
I have seen many people turn away from
homosexuality.
Really? Or did they just go back into the closet? Stopping sexual
activity doesn't change orientation!
Ever heard of Exodus Ministries? The biggest of the so-called ex-gay
movements. Studies have shown that they don't change anyone, but just
encourage them to remain celibate and lie. Two of the founders,
Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper, fell in love and lived together until
Cooper's death in 1991. (Amusingly enough, Bussee and Cooper's
ex-wives now run Exodus.)
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id529/pg1/
I have even heard homosexuals say they choose to do
what they do because it arouses them or they like the sexuality.
Why do you have sex? It feels good! You get aroused by women, by
certain parts of them, or the total thing. Your body responds by
given you an erection, and opening ducts to allow semen to pass
through the urethra. Sex is pleasurable, to encourage us to keep
doing it!
Homo- and bisexuals simply react to different or more stimuli. You an
I both have the same reaction to a nice set of tits. I also
appreciate a guy's *****. Simple as that.
Given
my experiences and my beliefs its just something I can never say is
natural, you can call me narrow minded, a bigot or whatever, but I
would argue that you all think only in one way also based on your
beliefs and experiences. There is absolutely no evidence that people
are born gay, you can research through your DNA, genes, brain, It is
something that happens to people while they are alive, it could be a
lack of a father figure,
My father was there for my entire life. A former soldier, he gave me
love of military history and football.
a great feeling of insecurity,
Pretty safe, normal childhood. We lived in the same house from the
time I was 2, My family never had any shocks, pretty boring life, to
be honest.
feelings of rejection,
Other than being dump once in high school, nope.
who knows,
Try some scientists doing research on the subject.
(I believe some people are more susceptible than
others)but I think to say that people are born in such a way is wrong.
I'm left handed, like about 1/5th of population. There is no gene, no
genetic link known. In fact, the best theory seems to be that our
brains have a larger link between the two halves.
Do you think that I chose to be left-handed?
Although you people would most likely love anarchy where we had no
laws, through out history there has been law and order, we have never
seen such immorality ever,
I guess you missed the parts where American citizens were killed for
trying to vote, had dogs set on them for assembling peaceably, and it
took federal troops to let little kids go to school.
Maybe you'll remember when we rounded up American citizens and herded
them into concentration camps?
We've done a lot worse than letting adults live their lives.
I blame it on society, I think if
homosexuality was illegal, there would be far-far-far less cases.
No, we'd just hide. Did it before.
It
would still exist on the reasoning that people choose to do what they
want to, face it although homosexuality has existed for thousands of
years, it has always been looked at as a crime and usually lead to a
punishment of death.
Wrong. So very, very wrong.
Now in today's America we could never do such a
thing, I say if its not illegal let people do what they want but I
just hate seeing homosexuals perform homosexual acts in my presence or
in front of children,
If people are performing sexual acts in front of you, call the cops..
oh, you mean things like holding hands? hugging? Quick kisses? Tell
you what, make that a death penalty offense for *everyone* and you'll
be in the right. Equal laws for all.
and although there is a separation of church and
state, the lord was mentioned in the constitution, bill of rights, and
as "our creator" in the deceleration,
Wrong. The only mention of the "Lord: in the Constitution is in the
date. And that was the standard practice in formal documents. Today,
we use "AD".
The Bill of Rights does not mention "Jesus", "th Lord", or "God."
The mention in the Declaration is an invocation to "Nature's God", a
Deist phrasing that has nothing to do with Christianity.
so it is a fact that this
country was built by christians, however the laws and constitution
have too many loop holes that have given this extreme behavior and
extreme left wing views room to enter into society.
That was how it was designed. The "loopholes" you talk about are the
9th and 10th Amendments. Those were written by the founding fathers
to insure that we would enjoy all out rights, not just the ones they
could think of.
I would die for my
country and consider myself a very patriotic individual, however
lately I have questioned what the flag represents,
Freedom. Which means putting up with the freedom of others.
I would not feel
like America would be the same as it was if such things as
gay-marriage were legalized, I think it would have the founding
fathers turning in their graves.
Since most of them were slave owners, I think they started spinning in
1863. Would you like to have slavery back? The Constitution was
written so it could grow and change over time. The Founders were
smart cookies; they understood that times and cultures change.
However on the bright side of things
for me, I remain a larger majority, more people oppose gay marriage
than support it, more people believe in God than don't, and as long as
the majority stays in those views I should not have to worry too much.
Actually, the majority supports some form of legal recognition of gay
partnerships.
I say put the question on a ballot, let the people decide. I am just
frustrated that 5 appointed judges can make a decision against the
views of the majority of the people. Please reason with me here and
see why I think it is unfair.
If we put the question of integrating the schools in Arkansas in 1954
to the vote.. does Little Rock signal the end of "Separate But Equal"?
If we put it to the vote in Mississippi, do blacks have an rights yet?
Civil rights *cannot* be voted on. They exist to protect the minority
from the majority. Judges get to rule, based on the Constitution and
precedent, on these matters because that is their *job.* We gave it
to them when we ratified the Constitution in 1788.
Also what about my pursue of happiness,
homosexuals don't make me happy. They don't make a majority of people
happy. I just hate seeing small minorities of people trying to
re-write history when the majority of people oppose it.
We're not rewriting history, we're writing a new chapter.
As for you happiness. Since you are not King, you don't get make
others unhappy so you get to be happy. You are allowed to pursue
happiness.. you are not guaranteed happiness. Neither am I. But I
am guaranteed rights under the Constitution.
I plan to fight for them, and for everyone else who deserves them.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
20 Jul 2004 06:58:31 PM |
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On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 05:32:35 +0000, Douglas Berry wrote:
In our last thrilling episode, (Jonathan Swift) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 18 Jul 2004 17:25:02 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be accepted as
what they "are", what about people who like to kill, have sex with
their family, cut themselves, touch children, etc.
Well, killing people and molesting kids have nothing to do with
consenting relationships between adults, so we can discard them. I
know people who get scars for decoration. That is their choice. I
myself have a tattoo, and am planning on getting more. My choice.
The fact that I choose to decorate my skin with colored ink does not
cause you any harm.
What kind of incest? Consenting relationships between adults? As
long as they take precautions against pregnancy, I have no objection.
obviously something
is wrong with these people, many killers are said to have brain
disorders, based on your beliefs a person of that nature should be
allowed to practice what they "are."
*Some*. Not all. Most killings come from moments of anger, or over
money (legal or illegal), or for other stupid reasons. The number of
people who just kill for fun is tiny.
I am sorry but in no way could I
ever believe that homosexuality is natural and not a choice(or in some
way emotional implied by a person convincing themselves they are gay)
I have seen people grow up normal, no signs of homosexuality and then
they turn that way,
That's called coming out of the closet. I didn't emerge until I was
29. That's a decade of adulthood, in the Army and in life, not
admitting to anyone (even myself) that I was bi.
I have seen many people turn away from
homosexuality.
Really? Or did they just go back into the closet? Stopping sexual
activity doesn't change orientation!
Ever heard of Exodus Ministries? The biggest of the so-called ex-gay
movements. Studies have shown that they don't change anyone, but just
encourage them to remain celibate and lie. Two of the founders,
Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper, fell in love and lived together until
Cooper's death in 1991. (Amusingly enough, Bussee and Cooper's
ex-wives now run Exodus.)
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id529/pg1/
I have even heard homosexuals say they choose to do
what they do because it arouses them or they like the sexuality.
Why do you have sex? It feels good! You get aroused by women, by
certain parts of them, or the total thing. Your body responds by
given you an erection, and opening ducts to allow semen to pass
through the urethra. Sex is pleasurable, to encourage us to keep
doing it!
Homo- and bisexuals simply react to different or more stimuli. You an
I both have the same reaction to a nice set of tits. I also
appreciate a guy's *****. Simple as that.
(big grin) shake shake shake.....
(couldn't resist the straight line)
.
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| User: "Icarus" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 07:56:44 PM |
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Jonathan Swift wrote:
Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be
accepted as what they "are", what about people who like to
kill, have sex with their family, cut themselves, touch
children, etc. obviously something is wrong with these people,
many killers are said to have brain disorders, based on your
beliefs a person of that nature should be allowed to practice
what they "are." I am sorry but in no way could I ever believe
that homosexuality is natural and not a choice(or in some way
emotional implied by a person convincing themselves they are
gay)...
<snip>
Also what about my pursue of happiness, homosexuals
don't make me happy. They don't make a majority of people
happy. I just hate seeing small minorities of people trying to
re-write history when the majority of people oppose it.
I have a suggestion: Why don't you (and everyone else who is
uncomfortable with homosexuality) make a genuine effort to change, so
that homosexuality no longer bothers you? That way you'll be happy,
the homosexuals will be happy, the whole thing will become a big
non-issue, and we can all worry about things that really matter, like
child abuse and wars and hunger, rather than whether Joe down the road
happens to fancy men or women, which (let's face it) is really none of
your business. Does that sound like a good plan?
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
19 Jul 2004 01:39:34 AM |
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On 18 Jul 2004 17:25:02 -0700, (Jonathan Swift)
wrote:
Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be accepted as
what they "are",
No one said that or implied that.
snip
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 08:20:27 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:25:02 -0700 in episode
<1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift):
Also
what about my pursue of happiness, homosexuals don't make me happy. They
don't make a majority of people happy.
Blacks being slaves made quite a few people happy once. Does that mean we
should have allowed slavery to continue?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
20 Jul 2004 07:10:49 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:20:27 -0500, Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:25:02 -0700 in episode
<1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift):
Also
what about my pursue of happiness, homosexuals don't make me happy. They
don't make a majority of people happy.
Blacks being slaves made quite a few people happy once. Does that mean we
should have allowed slavery to continue?
And other Christian sects were very happy slaughtering each other.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 08:18:00 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:25:02 -0700 in episode
<1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift):
Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be accepted as what
they "are", what about people who like to kill, have sex with their
family, cut themselves, touch children, etc. obviously something is wrong
with these people, many killers are said to have brain disorders, based on
your beliefs a person of that nature should be allowed to practice what
they "are."
Listen you dishonest little twerp, YOU brought up the naturalistic
fallacy. Take some goddamned responsibility for a change.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
20 Jul 2004 07:09:56 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:18:00 -0500, Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:25:02 -0700 in episode
<1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift):
Based upon your explanations, any type of human should be accepted as what
they "are", what about people who like to kill, have sex with their
family, cut themselves, touch children, etc. obviously something is wrong
with these people, many killers are said to have brain disorders, based on
your beliefs a person of that nature should be allowed to practice what
they "are."
Listen you dishonest little twerp, YOU brought up the naturalistic
fallacy. Take some goddamned responsibility for a change.
It can't. It's superstition won't let it.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 08:23:31 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:25:02 -0700 in episode
<1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift):
However on the bright side of things for me, I
remain a larger majority, more people oppose gay marriage than support it
Sorry but more than half the population now supports some form of legal
recognition for gay unions. Half of those favor marriage, half favor civil
unions. But the *majority favors legal recognition.
And the number of people that support some kind of legal recognition goes
*up as you move into younger age groups. Which means as the next
generations come up, support for legal recognition will increase.
By the way, before you get all hyped up about the number of people who
oppose gay marriage, keep in mind that when the first state court ruled
that you had to allow blacks and whites to marry, *90%* of the population
was against interracial marriages.
But look where we are now.
In a generation, people like you will be considered bigoted old farts and
nobody will care what you think.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
20 Jul 2004 07:09:00 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:23:31 -0500, Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:25:02 -0700 in episode
<1675067a.0407181625.11745976@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift):
However on the bright side of things for me, I
remain a larger majority, more people oppose gay marriage than support it
Sorry but more than half the population now supports some form of legal
recognition for gay unions. Half of those favor marriage, half favor civil
unions. But the *majority favors legal recognition.
And the number of people that support some kind of legal recognition goes
*up as you move into younger age groups. Which means as the next
generations come up, support for legal recognition will increase.
By the way, before you get all hyped up about the number of people who
oppose gay marriage, keep in mind that when the first state court ruled
that you had to allow blacks and whites to marry, *90%* of the population
was against interracial marriages.
But look where we are now.
In a generation, people like you will be considered bigoted old farts and
nobody will care what you think.
Jonathan doesn't think and many people don't give a ***** what clerical
jism he drools.
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| User: "Letao" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 02:36:41 PM |
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In article <1675067a.0407180917.161b7233@posting.google.com>,
(Jonathan Swift) wrote:
Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent
make it right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans
to kill each other, have inbreaded sex?
If homosexuality among animals is irrelevant, then why did you bring it
up in the first place? You were the one claiming that such a thing
didn't exist, therefore humans shouldn't be homosexual either. Maybe
you should do a little more thinking before spouting irrelevant
justifications, don't you think?
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal
sex, and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you.
Sex acts themselves are not love. Love exists as part of the emotional
bond between two people. Sex and love often overlap, and both serve to
reinforce the emotional bond betwen people, but they are not the same.
Anal sex is one of the great pleasures and privileges of being a gay
man, though it isn't everyone's cup of tea. If you haven't tried it, I
highly recommend doing so before offering up your ignorant opinion.
Also I
have stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay,
"My deity says so," isn't much of a case or explanation. You also keep
confusing the word "unnatural" with "wrong." And you have never made a
case for homosexuality being "wrong."
please state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your
darwin beliefs.
It is natural because it exists in nature and has existed among humans
for as long as we can see back into human history, and in relatively
constant percentages of population.
Also the bible says...
....absolutely nothing of interest to me.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 12:30:33 PM |
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In article <1675067a.0407180917.161b7233@posting.google.com>, swift_83
@yahoo.com says...
Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent
make it right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans
to kill each other, have inbreaded sex?
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal
sex, and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you. Also I
have stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay,
please state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your
darwin beliefs.
Many things have been pointed out to you. Just because YOU are to
bigoted and stupid to understand something means the rest of us can't
understand.
Also the bible says when a man lies with another man in the way he
lies with a woman it is an abomination(follwing up a post bellow)
And here we have the perfect example. You are too stupid and bigoted to
understand that arguments from the Bible carry no weight with those who
don't believe it is true, and arguments from the Bible carry no weight
in a secular country where freedom of religion is a cornerstone.
People like you who are to stupid to think shouldn't try.
--
"Go forth, and be excellent to each other"
- Bill & Ted
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| User: "Unsilent Lamb" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
19 Jul 2004 08:49:51 AM |
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Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote in message
And here we have the perfect example. You are too stupid and bigoted to
understand that arguments from the Bible carry no weight with those who
don't believe it is true, and arguments from the Bible carry no weight
in a secular country where freedom of religion is a cornerstone.
Bravo.
The Bible was written by people hearing voices. If we are supposed to
believe that, then why are mentally ill who hear voices dissed?
Whatever the laws were at one time, they were based on the
constituency at that time. Times have changed and the small minds
should get over it.
Instead we have ministers now trying to convince us that proponents of
gay marriage are in some way committing terrorism on American...
Idjut.
As in:
PASTOR apologizes for gay-marriage remarks
San Luis Obispo Tribune - San Luis Obispo,CA,USA
Rev. Eastman of SLO's Church of the Nazarene says use of words
'terrorist
attack on family' was wrong, but he still opposes same-sex unions. ...
<http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/9189361.htm>
"My best friend was gay, and he died of AIDS," Eastman said.
... or so he said when back peddling from his earlier comments.
--
Doesn't that sound a little like the "some of my best friends are
black" remark?
And I can't help but wonder if he felt he had tacit support for such
remarks from the heads of the Naz denom who this past week issued a
statement on one
of their sanctioned websites.
Seen July, 17, 2004 on NCNNews.Org
"We ask you to encourage your pastors to call upon the people of the
Church of the Nazarene to communicate with the members of the United
States
Congress and Senate who are their representatives. We encourage them
to express very clearly their support for a constitutional amendment
that would ban
gay marriages and that would preserve the social structure of marriage
as it is designed and affirmed in the scriptures...
..... –General Secretary's Office"
ncnnews.org/gnews.html
That seems perilously close to violating 501(c)(3) regulations on
churches and politics, to me.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
20 Jul 2004 06:55:34 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:30:33 -0700, Enkidu wrote:
In article <1675067a.0407180917.161b7233@posting.google.com>, swift_83
@yahoo.com says...
Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent
make it right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans
to kill each other, have inbreaded sex?
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal
sex, and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you. Also I
have stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay,
please state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your
darwin beliefs.
Many things have been pointed out to you. Just because YOU are to
bigoted and stupid to understand something means the rest of us can't
understand.
Also the bible says when a man lies with another man in the way he
lies with a woman it is an abomination(follwing up a post bellow)
And here we have the perfect example. You are too stupid and bigoted to
understand that arguments from the Bible carry no weight with those who
don't believe it is true, and arguments from the Bible carry no weight
in a secular country where freedom of religion is a cornerstone.
People like you who are to stupid to think shouldn't try.
It doesn't.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 06:15:46 PM |
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In our last thrilling episode, (Jonathan Swift) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 18 Jul 2004 10:17:16 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent
make it right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans
to kill each other, have inbreaded sex?
You know, I used to be a soldier. I got paid and awarded for killing
my fellow humans. I was pretty good at it.
Incest happens. Read Oedipus Rex.
Sex with bakery goods? eww...
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal
sex, and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you. Also I
have stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay,
please state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your
darwin beliefs.
Again. Not all gay/bi men have, or even like anal sex. There are
other ways to have fun! Secondly, a *large* percentage of straights
enjoy anal sex. Go figure.
Also the bible says when a man lies with another man in the way he
lies with a woman it is an abomination(follwing up a post bellow)
The Bible also says you are to make burnt offerings to god and never
shave your beard. Do you do that?
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
19 Jul 2004 01:39:33 AM |
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On 18 Jul 2004 10:17:16 -0700, (Jonathan Swift)
wrote:
Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent
make it right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans
to kill each other, have inbreaded sex?
It is your side that argues homosexuality is bad because it is
unnatural. When it is pointed out that it is quite natural, you then
begin the routine above.
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal
sex,
As you said above, animals killing each other is natural; that doesn't
make it right - or wrong for that matter.
Ever hear about a concept called "consistency"?
and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you.
Why is it sick? Furthermore no kind of sex is love, but it can be an
expression of love, anal sex included.
Also I
have stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay,
please state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your
darwin beliefs.
You have also said that just because it is natural doesn't make it
right. That being the case there really is no reason for you to care.
Also the bible says when a man lies with another man in the way he
lies with a woman it is an abomination(follwing up a post bellow)
We do not care what a book in your religion says. That is hard for
you to grasp apparently. Of course that is not surprising, since
simple consistency seems to be an unknown concept to you.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
18 Jul 2004 12:35:02 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:17:16 -0700 in episode
<1675067a.0407180917.161b7233@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift):
Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent make it
right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans to kill
each other, have inbreaded sex?
The point was *you introduced the naturalistic fallacy.
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal sex,
I don't think anyone has pointed out to you what is natural about using a
computer.
and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you.
Your personal distaste for the habits of others has no bearing on their
rights.
Frankly I find your butchering of English appalling. Should I be able to
restrict your rights? I also find Christianity to be barbaric. Does that
mean I should be able to get the 1st Amendment repealed?
Also I have
stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay, please
state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your darwin
beliefs.
You're funny. You want the natural world explained but without naturalism.
Idiotic but funny.
Also the bible says when a man lies with another man in the way he lies
with a woman it is an abomination(follwing up a post bellow)
Who cares what the bible says?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
20 Jul 2004 07:16:02 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 12:35:02 -0500, Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:17:16 -0700 in episode
<1675067a.0407180917.161b7233@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
swift_83@yahoo.com (Jonathan Swift):
Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent make it
right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans to kill
each other, have inbreaded sex?
The point was *you introduced the naturalistic fallacy.
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal sex,
I don't think anyone has pointed out to you what is natural about using a
computer.
and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you.
Your personal distaste for the habits of others has no bearing on their
rights.
Frankly I find your butchering of English appalling. Should I be able to
restrict your rights? I also find Christianity to be barbaric. Does that
mean I should be able to get the 1st Amendment repealed?
Also I have
stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay, please
state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your darwin
beliefs.
You're funny. You want the natural world explained but without naturalism.
Idiotic but funny.
Also the bible says when a man lies with another man in the way he lies
with a woman it is an abomination(follwing up a post bellow)
Who cares what the bible says?
Jonathan doesn't. He, like all other Christians, don't pay attention to
the silly thing, but get their panties in twists when others flat indicate
its irrelevant.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
20 Jul 2004 06:54:59 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:17:16 -0700, Jonathan Swift wrote:
Also the homosexual animal population is irrelivant, animals also kill
each other, some offsping have sex with their mothers, that dosent
make it right, is it natural and should be acceptable for among humans
to kill each other, have inbreaded sex?
Ask that question of "Noah." Based on the 'flood story' the human family
tree doesn't fork.
Ask that question of "Adam and Eve." Based on the 'garden story' the
human family tree doesn't fork.
Mr. Not-So-Swift, have you *ever* read your Bible? "God" orders all sorts
of genocide, infantcide, patricide, rapine, theft, and more.
According to your superstition, the responsibility all lies with "God."
I dont think anyone has pointed out to me, what is natual about anal
sex, and how can such a sick act be called love by many of you.
Ask the ladies, and gents, in your church. There's a lot of ladies that
like taking it up the *****, some gents too via lady with a strap-on.
Anal sex is natural, such is observed in the animal kingdom.
Also I
have stated my case why i think it is unnatural for someone to be gay,
please state to me why you people think it is natural, excluding your
darwin beliefs.
Man, did you ever go to school? You don't *think;* that's a hefty part of
the problem. "Darwin Beliefs(tm)?" /me shakes head sadly. Please repeat
from grade school on up, you've got a lot to learn-including written
English.
Also the bible says when a man lies with another man in the way he
lies with a woman it is an abomination(follwing up a post bellow)
And a Superman(tm) comic book indicates he can leap tall buildings in a
single bound, and is more powerful than a locomotive.
Fictional works say all sorts of things. You really need to learn to
separate fact from fiction.
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| User: "lensman1955" |
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| Title: Re: Ban on same-sex marriages isn't discrimination of gays |
15 Jul 2004 05:04:52 AM |
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Jim Burns <burns.87@osu.edu> wrote in message news:<40F5C07C.89980DC8@osu.edu>...
lensman1955 wrote:
nph@mailinator.com (har har) wrote in message
news:<5e7c4a9f.0407120511.300c2350@posting.google.com>...
Whether we're pro or con, the often heard argument that a ban
of same-sex marriages constitutes discrimination of gay couples
needs rectification:
Two heterosexuals of the same sex are also not allowed to marry.
;-)
"The law is truly just. It forbids the rich and the poor from
sleeping under the bridge."
Damn! I was too slow.
<nit pick/> A web search turned up this version, and its author:
The law, in its infinite majesty, prohibits rich and poor alike from
stealing bread and sleeping under bridges. - Anatole France
-- Jim Burns
Yep, that sounds like the original. Thanks for clearing it up.
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