| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
25 Jul 2007 04:54:43 AM |
| Object: |
Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state
http://jinchi.blogspot.com/2007/07/barack-obama-supports-separation-of.html
OBAMA: I am proud of my Christian faith. And it informs what I do. And
I don't think that people of any faith background should be prohibited
from debating in the public square.
But I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state, and
I think that we've got to translate...
By the way, I support it not just for the state but also for the
church, because that maintains our religious independence and that's
why we have such a thriving religious life.
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
26 Jul 2007 09:57:56 PM |
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In article <1185357283.900709.280850
@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, maff said...
Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state
<Shrug> Barack Obama is trying to appeal to a
wide spectrum of voters. His true beliefs
regarding many issues will never be made public.
The gullibility of Americans seems to be
boundless. George W. Bush and his cadre of war
criminals have provided us a festering, stinking
example of the foolishness at taking a politician
at his word. But now -- poof! -- millions of
voters are acting as if Bush is just an
aberration, that "their" candidate surely is
different.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
30 Jul 2007 05:57:22 AM |
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On Jul 27, 3:57 am, Brian E. Clark <re...@newsgroup.only.please>
wrote:
In article <1185357283.900709.280850
@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, maff said...
Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state
<Shrug> Barack Obama is trying to appeal to a
wide spectrum of voters. His true beliefs
regarding many issues will never be made public.
The gullibility of Americans seems to be
boundless. George W. Bush and his cadre of war
criminals have provided us a festering, stinking
example of the foolishness at taking a politician
at his word. But now -- poof! -- millions of
voters are acting as if Bush is just an
aberration, that "their" candidate surely is
different.
He writes about his personal beliefs in his first book, after he was
made the first African-American president of Havard Law Review, long
before he entered politics.
First Black Elected to Head Harvard's Law Review
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE2DC1631F935A35751C0A966958260&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fO%2fObama%2c%20Barack
Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance (Hardcover)
http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father-Story-Inheritance/dp/0307383415/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-6765788-8988958?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185792897&sr=1-2
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
25 Jul 2007 11:01:23 AM |
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maff wrote:
Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state
http://jinchi.blogspot.com/2007/07/barack-obama-supports-separation-of.html
OBAMA: I am proud of my Christian faith. And it informs what I do. And
I don't think that people of any faith background should be prohibited
from debating in the public square.
But I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state, and
I think that we've got to translate...
By the way, I support it not just for the state but also for the
church, because that maintains our religious independence and that's
why we have such a thriving religious life.
"I don't think that people of any faith background should be
prohibited from debating in the public square."
So what about people of no faith at all? Has Obama ever stated how he
feels about atheists?
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
30 Jul 2007 05:41:38 AM |
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On Jul 25, 5:01 pm, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
maff wrote:
Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state
http://jinchi.blogspot.com/2007/07/barack-obama-supports-separation-o...
OBAMA: I am proud of my Christian faith. And it informs what I do. And
I don't think that people of any faith background should be prohibited
from debating in the public square.
But I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state, and
I think that we've got to translate...
By the way, I support it not just for the state but also for the
church, because that maintains our religious independence and that's
why we have such a thriving religious life.
"I don't think that people of any faith background should be
prohibited from debating in the public square."
So what about people of no faith at all? Has Obama ever stated how he
feels about atheists?
"Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the
dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once
were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish
nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a
nation of nonbelievers."
My Spiritual Journey
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1546579,00.html
By Barack Obama
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
25 Jul 2007 11:11:43 PM |
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On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:01:23 -0700, Conspiracy of Doves
<mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote:
So what about people of no faith at all? Has Obama ever stated how he
feels about atheists?
Most theists don't have the first hint of a clue about what atheism
is, so they can have feelings about their straw men, but not about
atheists.
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| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
25 Jul 2007 11:46:40 PM |
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On Jul 26, 12:11 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:01:23 -0700, Conspiracy of Doves
<mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
So what about people of no faith at all? Has Obama ever stated how he
feels about atheists?
Most theists don't have the first hint of a clue about what atheism
is, so they can have feelings about their straw men, but not about
atheists.
So what are his feelings about his strawman? If they are at least
civil, then we might be able to inform him of what atheists are really
like.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
26 Jul 2007 09:40:57 AM |
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On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:46:40 -0700, Conspiracy of Doves
<mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 26, 12:11 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:01:23 -0700, Conspiracy of Doves
<mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
So what about people of no faith at all? Has Obama ever stated how he
feels about atheists?
Most theists don't have the first hint of a clue about what atheism
is, so they can have feelings about their straw men, but not about
atheists.
So what are his feelings about his strawman? If they are at least
civil, then we might be able to inform him of what atheists are really
like.
He hasn't addressed it, to my knowledge, so who knows?
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
30 Jul 2007 05:42:36 AM |
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On Jul 26, 5:11 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:01:23 -0700, Conspiracy of Doves
<mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
So what about people of no faith at all? Has Obama ever stated how he
feels about atheists?
Most theists don't have the first hint of a clue about what atheism
is, so they can have feelings about their straw men, but not about
atheists.
His father was an atheist.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
26 Jul 2007 04:40:50 AM |
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:11:43 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:01:23 -0700, Conspiracy of Doves
<mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote:
So what about people of no faith at all? Has Obama ever stated how he
feels about atheists?
Most theists don't have the first hint of a clue about what atheism
is, so they can have feelings about their straw men, but not about
atheists.
They're incapable of it.
An analogy I've used before:
The theists' world revolves around the fairies at the bottom of the
garden, that are orders of magnitude more important than anything
else.
They can't understand anybody not giving them a thought. So they
invent positions we don't even have about them but they insist we do.
Which fit their self-image.
Which denigrate and demean us.
But are their very definition of us.
So there is something inherently wrong with us.
After all, there couldn't be anything wrong with the normal, ordinary,
decent majority who believe in fairies, could there?
That's just the start.
It goes downhill from there.
We have to be made to believe in them. Obviously nobody has told us
about them before because otherwise we would believe. After all the
fairies are self-evident and supremely important.
They amateur-psychologise what is wrong with us for having the
positions they invented for us.
Because the fairies are what stop people doing bad things there is
nothing to stop us raping, pillaging etc.
And we believe this root source of all that is good doesn't exist.
We shouldn't even be citizens because the country was founded by the
influence of the fairies.
In short it is impossible for us to be ordinary decent, functioning
members of society.
And we're accused of being obsessed by the fairies? We don't believe
in them so we should ignore fairy-belief?
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
26 Jul 2007 09:43:55 AM |
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:40:50 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
An analogy I've used before:
To save bandwidth, <http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php> or any of the
other more than 300 sites it's playing on.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
26 Jul 2007 09:54:07 AM |
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:43:55 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:40:50 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
An analogy I've used before:
To save bandwidth, <http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php> or any of the
other more than 300 sites it's playing on.
That's a good one.
There's a video of it at
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6632687078883055082&q=kissing+hank%27s+*****&total=21&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
But all these analogies are way over their heads.
It's real to them and they are incapable of grasping how others see it
from outside.
The last time I used the analogy I was accused of demeaning theists.
If they don't like it they should start thinking, and keep it to
themselves.
Then we wouldn't need to show them what it's like.
Just like we shouldn't need to say things like sky-pixie, pretend
friend etc.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
27 Jul 2007 04:08:35 PM |
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:54:07 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
The last time I used the analogy I was accused of demeaning theists.
If they don't like it they should start thinking, and keep it to
themselves.
Then we wouldn't need to show them what it's like.
Just like we shouldn't need to say things like sky-pixie, pretend
friend etc.
You're expecting children to act as if they were adults. They're not -
they're children. No analogy - I mean it literally.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
27 Jul 2007 04:42:24 PM |
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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:08:35 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:54:07 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
The last time I used the analogy I was accused of demeaning theists.
If they don't like it they should start thinking, and keep it to
themselves.
Then we wouldn't need to show them what it's like.
Just like we shouldn't need to say things like sky-pixie, pretend
friend etc.
You're expecting children to act as if they were adults. They're not -
they're children. No analogy - I mean it literally.
I know. but it's hardly rocket science.
It's the same as the first time one of them told me that without his
god there was nothing to stop me killing his wife, raping him (or was
it the other way round) and eating his kids so he was always wary of
atheists.
Yet he got mortally offended when I told him that if that was all that
stopped him I hoped he never got within a thousand miles of my loved
ones.
It's OK to tell us we can't be moral though. But reflect it back on
them and it's unprovoked nastiness.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
29 Jul 2007 06:29:53 PM |
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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:42:24 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:08:35 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:54:07 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
The last time I used the analogy I was accused of demeaning theists.
If they don't like it they should start thinking, and keep it to
themselves.
Then we wouldn't need to show them what it's like.
Just like we shouldn't need to say things like sky-pixie, pretend
friend etc.
You're expecting children to act as if they were adults. They're not -
they're children. No analogy - I mean it literally.
I know. but it's hardly rocket science.
It's the same as the first time one of them told me that without his
god there was nothing to stop me killing his wife, raping him (or was
it the other way round) and eating his kids so he was always wary of
atheists.
Yet he got mortally offended when I told him that if that was all that
stopped him I hoped he never got within a thousand miles of my loved
ones.
It's OK to tell us we can't be moral though. But reflect it back on
them and it's unprovoked nastiness.
It's still many levels above their ability to comprehend.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Barack Obama supports the separation of church and state |
30 Jul 2007 05:59:36 AM |
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On Jul 30, 12:29 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:42:24 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:08:35 -0400, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:54:07 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
The last time I used the analogy I was accused of demeaning theists.
If they don't like it they should start thinking, and keep it to
themselves.
Then we wouldn't need to show them what it's like.
Just like we shouldn't need to say things like sky-pixie, pretend
friend etc.
You're expecting children to act as if they were adults. They're not -
they're children. No analogy - I mean it literally.
I know. but it's hardly rocket science.
It's the same as the first time one of them told me that without his
god there was nothing to stop me killing his wife, raping him (or was
it the other way round) and eating his kids so he was always wary of
atheists.
Yet he got mortally offended when I told him that if that was all that
stopped him I hoped he never got within a thousand miles of my loved
ones.
It's OK to tell us we can't be moral though. But reflect it back on
them and it's unprovoked nastiness.
It's still many levels above their ability to comprehend
Why? He was brought up in a nonreligious household.
..- Hide quoted text -
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