Religions > Atheism > Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Simon Gardner" |
| Date: |
28 Mar 2005 10:53:47 PM |
| Object: |
Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
By forbidding the use of barrier contraceptives to the deluded, this pope
has caused the death of many people through otherwise avoidable AIDS
infection and the bereavement of many more during his period of office.
Has anyone seen any estimates of the numbers that the pope has personally
(a) caused to die through his policy on barrier contraceptives and (b)
caused to be bereaved [ie numbers of relatives who have lost a loved one
because of this pope's policy]?
Sources would be good...
.
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
28 Mar 2005 11:29:40 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:53:47 +0100, 666_@hack.powernet[dot]co[dot]uk (Simon
Gardner) wrote:
By forbidding the use of barrier contraceptives to the deluded, this pope
has caused the death of many people through otherwise avoidable AIDS
infection and the bereavement of many more during his period of office.
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God said.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jack Harrison" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
29 Mar 2005 08:00:48 PM |
|
|
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God said.
Is it little wonder that religion is held in such contempt when people
put out such pathetic statements such as "reporting what god said"?
That is rather sad.
If you used rational arguments, then we might take you people more
seriousoly. But surely.....?
Twenty first century man wants rather better than your "it is fact -
end of discussion" type of contribution. We think and don't just
"accept".
Jack
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Goldberg" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
29 Mar 2005 09:23:55 PM |
|
|
Jack Harrison wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God said.
Is it little wonder that religion is held in such contempt when people
put out such pathetic statements such as "reporting what god said"?
That is rather sad.
I may be displaying an unwarranted confidence in humanity, but I assumed
that duke was being facetious.
-j
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
29 Mar 2005 09:27:49 PM |
|
|
"Jeffrey Goldberg" <nobody@goldmark.org> wrote in message
news:114jhrchc546m70@news.supernews.com...
Jack Harrison wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God
said.
Is it little wonder that religion is held in such contempt when people
put out such pathetic statements such as "reporting what god said"?
That is rather sad.
I may be displaying an unwarranted confidence in humanity, but I assumed
that duke was being facetious.
Sadly, duke (or "puke" as he is often called) is dead serious ;P
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
| User: "Simon Gardner" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
29 Mar 2005 09:54:29 PM |
|
|
In article <3atvhlF6djdf4U1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
Sadly, duke (or "puke" as he is often called) is dead serious ;P
Errm. Out of curiousity and leaving moronic idiots aside, can anyone answer
the question with some figures?
.
|
|
|
| User: "jwk" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 04:57:47 PM |
|
|
Simon Gardner wrote:
In article <3atvhlF6djdf4U1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
Sadly, duke (or "puke" as he is often called) is dead serious ;P
Errm. Out of curiousity and leaving moronic idiots aside, can anyone
answer
the question with some figures?
How would such statistics ever be compiled? And, even if a method
could be found, what beauacrat would ever dare tread there?
jwk
.
|
|
|
| User: "Simon Gardner" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
02 Apr 2005 07:09:43 PM |
|
|
In article <1112288267.483828.156900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote:
even if a method
could be found, what beauacrat would ever dare tread there?
Why on earth not?
The man [this pope] is a wicked mass murderer who puts most mass murderers
in the shade. The deaths and misery he personally has caused with his
anti-reason policy will go on happening long after he dies. Surely that is
worthy of rational comment?
I don't understand why you think the figures aren't at least worth
estimating and publishing - not least to shame his successor as chief
catholic loony into valuing life more than this particular evil *****?
--
Die pope die
.
|
|
|
| User: "jwk" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
04 Apr 2005 12:46:26 PM |
|
|
Simon Gardner wrote:
In article <1112288267.483828.156900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote:
even if a method
could be found, what beauacrat would ever dare tread there?
Why on earth not?
The man [this pope] is a wicked mass murderer who puts most mass
murderers
in the shade. The deaths and misery he personally has caused with
his
anti-reason policy will go on happening long after he dies. Surely
that is
worthy of rational comment?
I don't understand why you think the figures aren't at least worth
estimating and publishing - not least to shame his successor as chief
catholic loony into valuing life more than this particular evil
*****?
That is not what I said. I said that I didn't think you could quantify
his atrocities. That is, I don't think you could look around and say
"OK, the Pope is personally responisble for 40 million cases of AIDS,
etcetera". That doesn't mean I don't think his crimes worth rational
comment. Knock yourself out.
Then I commented that those people pulling together statistics have no
motivation to even try. They would get some very hard knocks if they
did.
I thought that was fairly clear from what I wrote, but I guess I was
too terse. I hate over explaining things.
jwk
.
|
|
|
| User: "Simon Gardner" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
04 Apr 2005 08:41:32 PM |
|
|
In article <1112618786.294649.61460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Then I commented that those people pulling together statistics have no
motivation to even try.
I can't see this. If this sort of grossw crime against humanity by one evil
person is to be stopped, it must be recorded and quantified.
They would get some very hard knocks if they
did.
Really? Who from?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Simon Gardner" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 08:30:30 PM |
|
|
In article <1112288267.483828.156900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Errm. Out of curiousity and leaving moronic idiots aside, can anyone
answer
the question with some figures?
How would such statistics ever be compiled? And, even if a method
could be found, what beauacrat would ever dare tread there?
Well can we safely say that this pope has killed hundreds of thousands
during and after he [hopefully] dies, then - as a conservative estimate?
--
Die pope die.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "jwk" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 04:55:37 PM |
|
|
Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
Jack Harrison wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God
said.
Is it little wonder that religion is held in such contempt when
people
put out such pathetic statements such as "reporting what god said"?
That is rather sad.
I may be displaying an unwarranted confidence in humanity, but I
assumed
that duke was being facetious.
Yep. That's an unwarranted confidence in humanity alright. :) Or at
least in duke.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
29 Mar 2005 11:43:18 PM |
|
|
On 29 Mar 2005 12:00:48 -0800, (Jack Harrison) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God said.
Is it little wonder that religion is held in such contempt when people
put out such pathetic statements such as "reporting what god said"?
That is rather sad.
You don't believe that?????? Wow, stunning.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
29 Mar 2005 12:32:26 AM |
|
|
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:sp4h41lkq5f726o7cdnnos8020ntns80ht@4ax.com:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:53:47 +0100, 666_@hack.powernet[dot]co[dot]uk
(Simon Gardner) wrote:
By forbidding the use of barrier contraceptives to the deluded, this
pope has caused the death of many people through otherwise avoidable
AIDS infection and the bereavement of many more during his period of
office.
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God
said.
And where and when did god say this? Do you have objective evidence of
such?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
29 Mar 2005 11:42:46 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:32:26 GMT, Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote:
And where and when did god say this? Do you have objective evidence of
such?
Yep.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Goldberg" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
30 Mar 2005 02:52:26 AM |
|
|
duke wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:53:47 +0100, 666_@hack.powernet[dot]co[dot]uk (Simon
Gardner) wrote:
By forbidding the use of barrier contraceptives to the deluded, this pope
has caused the death of many people through otherwise avoidable AIDS
infection and the bereavement of many more during his period of office.
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God said.
Can you please elaborate for us heathens? When and where did God forbid
the use of barrier contraceptives?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Alan Ferris" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
30 Mar 2005 09:36:55 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:52:26 -0800, Jeffrey Goldberg
<nobody@goldmark.org> wrote:
duke wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:53:47 +0100, 666_@hack.powernet[dot]co[dot]uk (Simon
Gardner) wrote:
By forbidding the use of barrier contraceptives to the deluded, this pope
has caused the death of many people through otherwise avoidable AIDS
infection and the bereavement of many more during his period of office.
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God said.
Can you please elaborate for us heathens? When and where did God forbid
the use of barrier contraceptives?
He didn't, that is why it took the church till the 1960's to ban them.
Duke/Puke/Earl Webber only pretends to be Catholic, his ignorance of
the faith is appalling.
--
Alan "Ferrit" Ferris
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
.
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 11:02:54 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:36:55 GMT, Alan Ferris <alan@spamddandd.com> wrote:
Can you please elaborate for us heathens? When and where did God forbid
the use of barrier contraceptives?
He didn't, that is why it took the church till the 1960's to ban them.
Duke/Puke/Earl Webber only pretends to be Catholic, his ignorance of
the faith is appalling.
Interesting. Then why does the Church call artificial contraception a sin,
stinky?
Between you and me, I profess the Church words. You are the one out of kilter.
How's your rubber ducky roundup going?
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Goldberg" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 03:35:24 PM |
|
|
duke wrote:
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:36:55 GMT, Alan Ferris <alan@spamddandd.com> wrote:
Can you please elaborate for us heathens? When and where did God forbid
the use of barrier contraceptives?
He didn't, that is why it took the church till the 1960's to ban them.
Interesting. Then why does the Church call artificial contraception a
sin, stinky?
Duke, I would appreciate it if you answered my original question. When
and where did God forbid the use of barrier contraceptives?
-j
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 05:27:08 PM |
|
|
Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:36:55 GMT, Alan Ferris <alan@spamddandd.com>
wrote:
Can you please elaborate for us heathens? When and where did God
forbid the use of barrier contraceptives?
He didn't, that is why it took the church till the 1960's to ban
them.
Interesting. Then why does the Church call artificial contraception a
sin, stinky?
Duke, I would appreciate it if you answered my original question. When and
where did God forbid the use of barrier contraceptives?
He can't, the whole RCC ban is based on Onanism.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Simon Gardner" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 08:27:24 PM |
|
|
In article <MpW2e.1408$V62.1275@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
He can't, the whole RCC ban is based on Onanism.
Is that because the fraud jesus and his nutty gang were a bunch of complete
wankers or is it more to do with the intoduction (supposedly) of priestly
celibacy, nuns etc - with all the ghastly consequences we see today?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 10:59:28 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:52:26 -0800, Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody@goldmark.org>
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:53:47 +0100, 666_@hack.powernet[dot]co[dot]uk (Simon
Gardner) wrote:
By forbidding the use of barrier contraceptives to the deluded, this pope
has caused the death of many people through otherwise avoidable AIDS
infection and the bereavement of many more during his period of office.
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God said.
Can you please elaborate for us heathens? When and where did God forbid
the use of barrier contraceptives?
When we elect to use non-natural methods to avoid pregnancy during an act of
love between 1 man and 1 woman. An act of love given us by God thus becomes an
act not of love but of lust.
And now you know the rest of the story.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
| User: "Frank J Warner" |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 01:19:51 PM |
|
|
In article <ljln41d21lmlq460106cj8601glhvij0mb@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:52:26 -0800, Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody@goldmark.org>
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:53:47 +0100, 666_@hack.powernet[dot]co[dot]uk (Simon
Gardner) wrote:
By forbidding the use of barrier contraceptives to the deluded, this pope
has caused the death of many people through otherwise avoidable AIDS
infection and the bereavement of many more during his period of office.
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what God said.
Can you please elaborate for us heathens? When and where did God forbid
the use of barrier contraceptives?
When we elect to use non-natural methods to avoid pregnancy during an act of
love between 1 man and 1 woman. An act of love given us by God thus becomes
an
act not of love but of lust.
I'd be willing to bet that lust plays a bigger part than love in the
vast majority of conceptions.
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jon." |
|
| Title: Re: Barrier contraceptives and this pope's guilt - number estim |
31 Mar 2005 08:40:21 PM |
|
|
duke wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:52:26 -0800, Jeffrey Goldberg
<nobody@goldmark.org>
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:53:47 +0100,
666_@hack.powernet[dot]co[dot]uk (Simon
Gardner) wrote:
By forbidding the use of barrier contraceptives to the deluded,
this pope
has caused the death of many people through otherwise avoidable
AIDS
infection and the bereavement of many more during his period of
office.
Nope - he didn't do any such thing. He's merely reporting what
God said.
Can you please elaborate for us heathens? When and where did God
forbid
the use of barrier contraceptives?
When we elect to use non-natural methods to avoid pregnancy during an
act of
love between 1 man and 1 woman. An act of love given us by God thus
becomes an
act not of love but of lust.
And now you know the rest of the story.
Which is *not* in the Bible. As far as I can see, the closest the
Bible comes to condemning birth control is the story of Onan, who
breached a tribal custom by refusing to impregnate his dead brother's
widow. (Actually, since he was using the withdrawal method, he got
lucky there!) That leaves the argument Duke presents as purely human
in origin.
As for the argument itself, it is ridiculous. How is it that using
"natural" methods to avoid pregnancy (presumably the rhythm method)
makes sex an act of love but using a condom makes it an act of lust?
For that matter, as long as I love my wife and want to ensure her
happiness as a result of the act, why does a baby have to be a possible
outcome? I know that after sex with one another, we both feel our love
for one another more strongly. It is therefore an act of love, whether
we use birth control or not. And some old man in Rome can't tell me
any different.
Jon.
aa #703
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
