| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
30 Apr 2004 07:16:04 PM |
| Object: |
Before god begat Jesus, |
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Officially, Jesus is supposed to be "eternally begotten" -- don't
expect me to make any sense out of that. It makes almost as much sense
as the Trinity.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
30 Apr 2004 09:19:21 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Officially, Jesus is supposed to be "eternally begotten" -- don't
expect me to make any sense out of that. It makes almost as much sense
as the Trinity.
Good thing christianity has lost a lot of power. A comment like that would
have got you burned in the old days, maybe about six feet from a carefully
tended fire so it would be slow.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
03 May 2004 06:26:33 AM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Officially, Jesus is supposed to be "eternally begotten" -- don't
expect me to make any sense out of that. It makes almost as much sense
as the Trinity.
Here goes........
Origens position about Jesus' origins............
'Origen's theology was biblically rooted from start to finish.
He subscribed to the notion that 'God' was the creator of all things. And
he belived that to mean ALL things, including Christ. The essence of Christ
came into being at some point in eternity past. In fact, it came into being
when
all the intelligent beings of the divine realm came into being-angels,
arch-angels,demons, the Devil, humal souls. All these creatures of 'God'
were
originally disembodied minds, created to adore 'God' forever, and yet they
were given
the free will to choose to do otherwise. Some minds chose to depart from
'God'-for
example, the devil and his demons, whose lust for power led to their "fall".
Others
simply could not sustain the worship of 'God' for eternity; these, too, fell
from
their divine place and became souls that were placed in human bobies as a
discipline and punishment, prior to redemtion. One mind, however, stayed in
direct and
intensely focused contact with 'God', from eternity past. So connected with
'God' was
this mind that it became one with 'God'. Just as the iron placed in a hot
fire
eventually takes on all the characteristics of the fire, this one took on
all the
characteristics of 'God', became so infused with 'God's' wisdom that it
became 'Gods' wisdom,
so infused with 'Gods' word, that it became 'Gods' word. In a very real
sense, then, to
all outward appearances and to the depth of it's being, this mind was 'God'.
This mind then became a soul that took on human flesh and dwelt among us in
the
form of a human. Christ is the incarnation of this divine being that came
into
existance in eternity past; Christ ig 'God's' Word made flesh; Christ is
'God', one
with the Father, distinct in person, but equal in substance, the one through
whom
'God' made the world (Origen On first principles 2:6). But-this is a key
point-he
is equal with 'God' by the transference of 'Gods' being; ultimately, he is
subordinate to 'God' and is 'Less than the Father' (On first principles
1:3)' -Ehrman 'Lost
Christianities' p 155
Mind you Origen was eventually condemned as an heretic.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
30 Apr 2004 08:41:05 PM |
|
|
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel when He was born onto
the earth, which is His name in heaven. Michael, was the first created
angel, that came from God's own being. For lack of a better way to describe
it, God burped up from deep inside Himself, and Michael was created. Thus
Michael being a part of God, was thus then with Him from eternity and they
were ALWAYS ONE.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Officially, Jesus is supposed to be "eternally begotten" -- don't
expect me to make any sense out of that. It makes almost as much sense
as the Trinity.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
.
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| User: "Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 09:05:22 AM |
|
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"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ReDkc.45622$2v.13613@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel when He was born
onto
the earth, which is His name in heaven. Michael, was the first created
angel, that came from God's own being. For lack of a better way to
describe
it, God burped up from deep inside Himself, and Michael was created. Thus
Michael being a part of God, was thus then with Him from eternity and they
were ALWAYS ONE.
"If god can create angels, why bother with man?"
Joe
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 03:41:40 PM |
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Dore wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel when He was born
onto the earth, which is His name in heaven.
This is amazing stupid even for a woman known to be amazingly stupid.
--
"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun
in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to
Canada. So I chose to better myself and learn to fly airplanes."
- George W. Bush May 1984 to the Houston Chronicle
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
02 May 2004 11:20:08 PM |
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Dore wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel when He was born onto
the earth, which is His name in heaven. Michael, was the first created
angel, that came from God's own being. For lack of a better way to describe
it, God burped up from deep inside Himself, and Michael was created. Thus
Michael being a part of God, was thus then with Him from eternity and they
were ALWAYS ONE.
so when god farts is anything special produced?
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Officially, Jesus is supposed to be "eternally begotten" -- don't
expect me to make any sense out of that. It makes almost as much sense
as the Trinity.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
.
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| User: "Daniel Hoehr" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 09:03:56 AM |
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Dore wrote:
Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel when He was born onto
the earth, which is His name in heaven. Michael, was the first created
angel, that came from God's own being. For lack of a better way to describe
it, God burped up from deep inside Himself, and Michael was created. Thus
Michael being a part of God, was thus then with Him from eternity and they
were ALWAYS ONE.
*****.
DH
--
"Littera gesta docet, quid credas allegoria,
Moralis quid agas, quo tendas anagogia."
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
30 Apr 2004 10:43:16 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Dore:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before
God begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then
how could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel when He was
born onto the earth, which is His name in heaven. Michael, was the
first created angel, that came from God's own being. For lack of a
better way to describe it, God burped up from deep inside Himself, and
Michael was created. Thus Michael being a part of God, was thus then
with Him from eternity and they were ALWAYS ONE.
What an interesting visual. I wonder what happens when you feed the god
a Jalapeno?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 09:42:24 AM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94DBD2F1A3F44vicman@204.127.199.17...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Dore:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before
God begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then
how could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel when He was
born onto the earth, which is His name in heaven. Michael, was the
first created angel, that came from God's own being. For lack of a
better way to describe it, God burped up from deep inside Himself, and
Michael was created. Thus Michael being a part of God, was thus then
with Him from eternity and they were ALWAYS ONE.
What an interesting visual. I wonder what happens when you feed the god
a Jalapeno?
Satan ?
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 08:20:28 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Jez:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94DBD2F1A3F44vicman@204.127.199.17...
What an interesting visual. I wonder what happens when you feed the god
a Jalapeno?
Satan ?
Cesar Chavez?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 08:47:45 PM |
|
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:94DCB97CDvicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Jez:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94DBD2F1A3F44vicman@204.127.199.17...
What an interesting visual. I wonder what happens when you feed the
god
a Jalapeno?
Satan ?
Cesar Chavez?
Jalapeno's are mild. How about an Habanera?
Or something from the little bottle I have that has a Scofield number of
1,000,000?
It's oily and when I wash the almost invisible residue left over from two or
three drops off a spoon under hot water I am aware of the fumes.
Do not touch certain areas of your body after getting some on your hands.
Not even if you've washed them...
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 11:04:29 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Mike Painter:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:94DCB97CDvicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Jez:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94DBD2F1A3F44vicman@204.127.199.17...
What an interesting visual. I wonder what happens when you feed
the
god
a Jalapeno?
Satan ?
Cesar Chavez?
Jalapeno's are mild. How about an Habanera?
Or something from the little bottle I have that has a Scofield number
of 1,000,000?
It's oily and when I wash the almost invisible residue left over from
two or three drops off a spoon under hot water I am aware of the
fumes.
Do not touch certain areas of your body after getting some on your
hands. Not even if you've washed them...
I ate a Habanero pepper with lunch just before leaving Cancun for
Houston. What a horrible flight! The rush through Bush Intercontinental
to make our connecting flight involved several stops, and I spent most of
the 3.5 hour flight to LA on the toilet. It stayed with me for a week.
I'm usually not shy of peppers, but man! That's a spicy meatball!
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
.
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| User: "peter" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
30 Apr 2004 08:46:07 PM |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_060A_01C42EFC.B5609AE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
NO WONDER WHY SO MANY CHRISTIANS TURN TO ISLAM.
--=20
PETER
If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more =
violence.
If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message =
news:ReDkc.45622$2v.13613@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before =
God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There =
had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and =
God
the Son.
Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel when He was =
born onto
the earth, which is His name in heaven. Michael, was the first created
angel, that came from God's own being. For lack of a better way to =
describe
it, God burped up from deep inside Himself, and Michael was created. =
Thus
Michael being a part of God, was thus then with Him from eternity and =
they
were ALWAYS ONE.
--=20
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before =
God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There =
had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and =
God
the Son.
Officially, Jesus is supposed to be "eternally begotten" -- don't
expect me to make any sense out of that. It makes almost as much =
sense
as the Trinity.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
------=_NextPart_000_060A_01C42EFC.B5609AE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG>NO WONDER WHY SO MANY CHRISTIANS TURN TO =
ISLAM.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>PETER</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more=20
violence.<BR>If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no =
more=20
Israel.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Dore" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:dorewilliamson@verizon.net">dorewilliamson@verizon.net</A>=
>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:ReDkc.45622$2v.13613@nwrdny02.gnilink.net">news:ReDkc.45622$=
2v.13613@nwrdny02.gnilink.net</A>...</DIV>"Truth=20
Hunter" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:hunter77099@yahoo.com">hunter77099@yahoo.com</A>> =
wrote in=20
message<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com">news:e164e7=
83.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com</A>...<BR>>=20
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before =
God<BR>>=20
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then =
how<BR>>=20
could he be a son?<BR>><BR>> Jesus cannot be a son if he always =
existed,=20
along with god. There had<BR>> to have been a point at which god =
brought=20
him into existence,<BR>> otherwise it would be meaningless to call =
them God=20
the Father and God<BR>> the Son.<BR><BR>Jesus is the human name =
given to=20
Michael the archangel when He was born onto<BR>the earth, which is His =
name in=20
heaven. Michael, was the first created<BR>angel, that came from God's =
own=20
being. For lack of a better way to describe<BR>it, God burped up from =
deep=20
inside Himself, and Michael was created. Thus<BR>Michael being a part =
of God,=20
was thus then with Him from eternity and they<BR>were ALWAYS =
ONE.<BR><BR>--=20
<BR>Dore<BR><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.dorewilliamson.com">www.dorewilliamson.com</A><BR><BR>=
<BR><BR>"Truth=20
Hunter" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:hunter77099@yahoo.com">hunter77099@yahoo.com</A>> =
wrote in=20
message<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com">news:e164e7=
83.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com</A>...<BR>>=20
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before =
God<BR>>=20
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then =
how<BR>>=20
could he be a son?<BR>><BR>> Jesus cannot be a son if he always =
existed,=20
along with god. There had<BR>> to have been a point at which god =
brought=20
him into existence,<BR>> otherwise it would be meaningless to call =
them God=20
the Father and God<BR>> the Son.<BR>><BR>> Officially, Jesus =
is=20
supposed to be "eternally begotten" -- don't<BR>> expect me to make =
any=20
sense out of that. It makes almost as much sense<BR>> as the=20
Trinity.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html">http://www.jew=
sforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML=
------=_NextPart_000_060A_01C42EFC.B5609AE0--
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 11:13:06 AM |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C42F75.A9001310
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"peter" <peterusa@optonline.net> wrote in message =
news:zjDkc.66530$Gd3.15590250@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
NO WONDER WHY SO MANY CHRISTIANS TURN TO ISLAM.
If they do they have chosen death over life.=20
--=20
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"peter" <peterusa@optonline.net> wrote in message =
news:zjDkc.66530$Gd3.15590250@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
NO WONDER WHY SO MANY CHRISTIANS TURN TO ISLAM.
--=20
PETER
If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more =
violence.
If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more =
Israel.
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message =
news:ReDkc.45622$2v.13613@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before =
God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There =
had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and =
God
the Son.
Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel when He was =
born onto
the earth, which is His name in heaven. Michael, was the first =
created
angel, that came from God's own being. For lack of a better way to =
describe
it, God burped up from deep inside Himself, and Michael was created. =
Thus
Michael being a part of God, was thus then with Him from eternity =
and they
were ALWAYS ONE.
--=20
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before =
God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There =
had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and =
God
the Son.
Officially, Jesus is supposed to be "eternally begotten" -- don't
expect me to make any sense out of that. It makes almost as much =
sense
as the Trinity.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C42F75.A9001310
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<DIV>"peter" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:peterusa@optonline.net">peterusa@optonline.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
href=3D"news:zjDkc.66530$Gd3.15590250@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net">news:zjDkc=
..66530$Gd3.15590250@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>NO WONDER WHY SO MANY CHRISTIANS TURN TO =
ISLAM.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If they do they have chosen death over life. </DIV>
<DIV>-- <BR>Dore</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"http://www.dorewilliamson.com">www.dorewilliamson.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"peter" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:peterusa@optonline.net">peterusa@optonline.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
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href=3D"news:zjDkc.66530$Gd3.15590250@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net">news:zjDkc=
..66530$Gd3.15590250@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>NO WONDER WHY SO MANY CHRISTIANS TURN TO =
ISLAM.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>PETER</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more =
violence.<BR>If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be =
no more=20
Israel.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Dore" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:dorewilliamson@verizon.net">dorewilliamson@verizon.net</A>=
>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:ReDkc.45622$2v.13613@nwrdny02.gnilink.net">news:ReDkc.45622$=
2v.13613@nwrdny02.gnilink.net</A>...</DIV>"Truth=20
Hunter" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:hunter77099@yahoo.com">hunter77099@yahoo.com</A>> =
wrote in=20
message<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com">news:e164e7=
83.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com</A>...<BR>>=20
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before=20
God<BR>> begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all =
along, then=20
how<BR>> could he be a son?<BR>><BR>> Jesus cannot be a son =
if he=20
always existed, along with god. There had<BR>> to have been a =
point at=20
which god brought him into existence,<BR>> otherwise it would be=20
meaningless to call them God the Father and God<BR>> the=20
Son.<BR><BR>Jesus is the human name given to Michael the archangel =
when He=20
was born onto<BR>the earth, which is His name in heaven. Michael, =
was the=20
first created<BR>angel, that came from God's own being. For lack of =
a better=20
way to describe<BR>it, God burped up from deep inside Himself, and =
Michael=20
was created. Thus<BR>Michael being a part of God, was thus then with =
Him=20
from eternity and they<BR>were ALWAYS ONE.<BR><BR>-- =
<BR>Dore<BR><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.dorewilliamson.com">www.dorewilliamson.com</A><BR><BR>=
<BR><BR>"Truth=20
Hunter" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:hunter77099@yahoo.com">hunter77099@yahoo.com</A>> =
wrote in=20
message<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com">news:e164e7=
83.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com</A>...<BR>>=20
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before=20
God<BR>> begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all =
along, then=20
how<BR>> could he be a son?<BR>><BR>> Jesus cannot be a son =
if he=20
always existed, along with god. There had<BR>> to have been a =
point at=20
which god brought him into existence,<BR>> otherwise it would be=20
meaningless to call them God the Father and God<BR>> the=20
Son.<BR>><BR>> Officially, Jesus is supposed to be "eternally=20
begotten" -- don't<BR>> expect me to make any sense out of that. =
It makes=20
almost as much sense<BR>> as the =
Trinity.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html">http://www.jew=
sforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C42F75.A9001310--
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| User: "AR Hall" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
30 Apr 2004 10:38:39 PM |
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1st we choose to believe in God an entity we couldn't begin to explain.
Then we try to fit it into our human rules.
Sensible?
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404301616.16912dfe@posting.google.com...
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
Jesus cannot be a son if he always existed, along with god. There had
to have been a point at which god brought him into existence,
otherwise it would be meaningless to call them God the Father and God
the Son.
Officially, Jesus is supposed to be "eternally begotten" -- don't
expect me to make any sense out of that. It makes almost as much sense
as the Trinity.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 06:24:09 AM |
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On 30 Apr 2004 17:16:04 -0700, (Truth Hunter) wrote:
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
You're really getting easy now, th. Jesus was both fully human and fully divine, hence
Son of Man and Son of God.
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| User: "Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 09:13:03 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:r12790p5ghhrhg0vt66v9mrd8nk1da724e@4ax.com...
On 30 Apr 2004 17:16:04 -0700, (Truth Hunter) wrote:
There was a point in time when Jesus and God were not one - before God
begat Jesus, Jesus didn't exist. If he existed all along, then how
could he be a son?
You're really getting easy now, th. Jesus was both fully human and fully
divine, hence
Son of Man and Son of God.
Jesus was not fully divine otherwise he would not have lied to his apostles
when he said that "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who
will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
He was not fully human because he supposedly walked away from death. Humans
don't walk away from death. My guess is that he was just human, only history
has no record of the man, so in chances are he is probably just a myth.
Joe
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 11:21:12 AM |
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On Sat, 1 May 2004 09:13:03 -0500, "Joe" <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jesus was not fully divine otherwise he would not have lied to his apostles
when he said that "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who
will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
He was not fully human because he supposedly walked away from death. Humans
don't walk away from death. My guess is that he was just human, only history
has no record of the man, so in chances are he is probably just a myth.
Joe
Sure he is.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 11:10:14 AM |
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On Sat, 1 May 2004 09:13:03 -0500, "Joe" <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote:
You're really getting easy now, th. Jesus was both fully human and fully
divine, hence
Son of Man and Son of God.
Jesus was not fully divine otherwise he would not have lied to his apostles
when he said that "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who
will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
But that was true. It happened on the 3rd day after his resurrection.
He was not fully human because he supposedly walked away from death. Humans
don't walk away from death. My guess is that he was just human, only history
has no record of the man, so in chances are he is probably just a myth.
Actually he didn't walk away. He died on the cross.
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| User: "Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 06:12:56 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1ti790pdj53eo7gdmhsgmmg7s9i7q7q3ki@4ax.com...
On Sat, 1 May 2004 09:13:03 -0500, "Joe" <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote:
You're really getting easy now, th. Jesus was both fully human and
fully
divine, hence
Son of Man and Son of God.
Jesus was not fully divine otherwise he would not have lied to his
apostles
when he said that "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who
will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his
kingdom."
But that was true. It happened on the 3rd day after his resurrection.
Do you really suppose that Jesus expected most of his audience to be dead in
3 days. hahahahah.
Joe
He was not fully human because he supposedly walked away from death.
Humans
don't walk away from death. My guess is that he was just human, only
history
has no record of the man, so in chances are he is probably just a myth.
Actually he didn't walk away. He died on the cross.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
02 May 2004 07:02:15 AM |
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On Sat, 1 May 2004 18:12:56 -0500, "Joe" <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jesus was not fully divine otherwise he would not have lied to his
apostles
when he said that "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who
will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his
kingdom."
But that was true. It happened on the 3rd day after his resurrection.
ps - shucks - I meant "on the 3rd day after his death on the cross". Did you miss that?
Do you really suppose that Jesus expected most of his audience to be dead in
3 days. hahahahah.
Joe
No, he said the opposite.
You don't know much about the Christian faith, do you? How can you be an atheist?
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| User: "Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
02 May 2004 08:22:54 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ulo990h6crhtsm6lg7jm9bb41m814ud1ju@4ax.com...
On Sat, 1 May 2004 18:12:56 -0500, "Joe" <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jesus was not fully divine otherwise he would not have lied to his
apostles
when he said that "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here
who
will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his
kingdom."
But that was true. It happened on the 3rd day after his resurrection.
ps - shucks - I meant "on the 3rd day after his death on the cross". Did
you miss that?
Its rather mute don't you think?
Do you really suppose that Jesus expected most of his audience to be dead
in
3 days. hahahahah.
Joe
No, he said the opposite.
If Jesus said "some of you" will not taste death then he assumed that "most
would be dead". Or am I missing something.
You don't know much about the Christian faith, do you? How can you be an
atheist?
On the contrary.
Joe
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| User: "mich" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
23 May 2004 06:42:29 AM |
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"Joe" <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1099q0it1vvrh42@corp.supernews.com...
If Jesus said "some of you" will not taste death then he assumed that
"most
would be dead". Or am I missing something.
Joe
Catholics will use this text when speaking of the assumption of Mary, as
well as the
belief that John would not die till the return of Jesus. The latter teaching
is not an article of faith.
Andre
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
02 May 2004 08:17:51 AM |
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Joe <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
Joe <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jesus was not fully divine otherwise he would not have lied to his
apostles when he said that "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing
here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in
his kingdom."
But that was true. It happened on the 3rd day after his resurrection.
ps - shucks - I meant "on the 3rd day after his death on the cross". Did
you miss that?
Its rather mute don't you think?
Moot, actually, but nevermind that...
Do you really suppose that Jesus expected most of his audience to be
dead in 3 days. hahahahah.
No, he said the opposite.
If Jesus said "some of you" will not taste death then he assumed that "most
would be dead". Or am I missing something.
Perhaps you're not asking enough questions, like what does
"see the Son of man coming in his kingdom," or "in the clouds," as
some verses say, really mean???
Matthew 24:30
"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and
all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man
coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory."
Perhaps duke can explain how Jesus might appear in the sky
and the clouds, with great power and glory at the same time?
Sounds like the perfect launching pad for a UFO cult to me.
Once it was realized that Jesus coming back in the clouds on a
flying white horse like Pegasus was ancient fiction, the Raelians
scarfed up that part of the Jesus myth, and off they went...
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
02 May 2004 01:37:32 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:0rr990paptq9ip9timi4avfqrmtfo121i2@4ax.com...
Joe <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
Joe <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jesus was not fully divine otherwise he would not have lied to his
apostles when he said that "Truly, I say to you, there are some
standing
here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming
in
his kingdom."
But that was true. It happened on the 3rd day after his
resurrection.
ps - shucks - I meant "on the 3rd day after his death on the cross".
Did
you miss that?
Its rather mute don't you think?
Moot, actually, but nevermind that...
Do you really suppose that Jesus expected most of his audience to be
dead in 3 days. hahahahah.
No, he said the opposite.
If Jesus said "some of you" will not taste death then he assumed that
"most
would be dead". Or am I missing something.
Perhaps you're not asking enough questions, like what does
"see the Son of man coming in his kingdom," or "in the clouds," as
some verses say, really mean???
Matthew 24:30
"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and
all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man
coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory."
Perhaps duke can explain how Jesus might appear in the sky
and the clouds, with great power and glory at the same time?
Sounds like the perfect launching pad for a UFO cult to me.
Once it was realized that Jesus coming back in the clouds on a
flying white horse like Pegasus was ancient fiction, the Raelians
scarfed up that part of the Jesus myth, and off they went...
Earl can't explain any of it and he will not admit that the early christian
sects fully expected the second coming in their lifetime just as many do
today.
While claiming to be a catholic he is just another salad bar christian where
a bible verse can mean one thing to answer one question and something else
for another question.
We've all experienced that type of stubborn denial even though we see the
problem and know we are wrong. For most of us it's gone by the teen age
years.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
02 May 2004 03:00:49 PM |
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On Sun, 2 May 2004 08:22:54 -0500, "Joe" <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote:
ps - shucks - I meant "on the 3rd day after his death on the cross". Did
you miss that?
Its rather mute don't you think?
Well, even I gave you credit for catching that one. My mistake.
Do you really suppose that Jesus expected most of his audience to be dead
in
3 days. hahahahah.
Joe
No, he said the opposite.
If Jesus said "some of you" will not taste death then he assumed that "most
would be dead". Or am I missing something.
You're missing something.
You don't know much about the Christian faith, do you? How can you be an
atheist?
On the contrary.
Nope, you're missing it.
duke
*****
John 6
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless
you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his
blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my
flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I
will raise him up at the last day.
*****
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
01 May 2004 08:24:36 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach duke:
On Sat, 1 May 2004 09:13:03 -0500, "Joe" <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote:
You're really getting easy now, th. Jesus was both fully human and
fully
divine, hence
Son of Man and Son of God.
Jesus was not fully divine otherwise he would not have lied to his
apostles when he said that "Truly, I say to you, there are some
standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man
coming in his kingdom."
But that was true. It happened on the 3rd day after his resurrection.
The people he was talking to died. Jesus lied.
He was not fully human because he supposedly walked away from death.
Humans don't walk away from death. My guess is that he was just human,
only history has no record of the man, so in chances are he is probably
just a myth.
Actually he didn't walk away. He died on the cross.
You, of all people should recognize a metaphor. He transcended death.
Supposedly. No man did that before, and no man has done it since.
Unfortunately for xianity, there is more evidence than not that this story
is fictional.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
02 May 2004 07:05:39 AM |
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On Sat, 01 May 2004 20:24:36 -0500, (Vic Sagerquist) wrote:
But that was true. It happened on the 3rd day after his resurrection.
The people he was talking to died. Jesus lied.
Not on the 3rd day after his own death on the cross. You missed it too, didn't you vic.
Actually he didn't walk away. He died on the cross.
You, of all people should recognize a metaphor. He transcended death.
Supposedly. No man did that before, and no man has done it since.
Nope, sorry. Jesus the man died on the cross, and the glorified Lord rose on the 3rd day.
Wow, another atheist that doesn't know why he's an atheist.
Unfortunately for xianity, there is more evidence than not that this story
is fictional.
Fact is fact. Forget the total lack of evidence to your thoughts.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
04 May 2004 05:36:26 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:oqo990trmpbcr5vqe31jjolvfg60jq54kl@4ax.com...
On Sat, 01 May 2004 20:24:36 -0500, (Vic Sagerquist)
wrote:
Nope, sorry. Jesus the man died on the cross, and the glorified Lord rose
on the 3rd day.
Wow, another atheist that doesn't know why he's an atheist.
Urmmm.....actually, all you need to do to become an atheist is
to NOT BELIVE IN A 'GOD'.
No Christian theology needed !
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Before god begat Jesus, |
02 May 2004 09:30:21 AM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach duke:
On Sat, 01 May 2004 20:24:36 -0500, (Vic
Sagerquist) wrote:
But that was true. It happened on the 3rd day after his resurrection.
The people he was talking to died. Jesus lied.
Not on the 3rd day after his own death on the cross. You missed it too,
didn't you vic.
Yup. I wasn't born until 1956.
Actually he didn't walk away. He died on the cross.
You, of all people should recognize a metaphor. He transcended death.
Supposedly. No man did that before, and no man has done it since.
Nope, sorry. Jesus the man died on the cross, and the glorified Lord
rose on the 3rd day.
So says the book. Since the book is full of refutable garbage, why should
I believe this part?
Wow, another atheist that doesn't know why he's an atheist.
As if yours is the only religion. I don't subscribe to Judaism, Mithraism,
Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Mormonism, Voodoo or any of the Tribal religions
either.
Unfortunately for xianity, there is more evidence than not that this
story is fictional.
Fact is fact. Forget the total lack of evidence to your thoughts.
I agree, fact is fact. Unfortunately for you, xianity is based on fantasy.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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