Belief in God in Europe



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "david ford"
Date: 01 Mar 2005 11:14:38 AM
Object: Belief in God in Europe
I'm trying to make sense of [Polzer]"The belief in God does not
necessarily mean that Germans regard him as a personal being. For 83
percent of all believers God is present in nature, 75 percent regard him
as their creator...."
From
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/s05020143.htm
Friday, February 25, 2005
SURVEY: WHAT EUROPEANS BELIEVE
Seven out of Ten Believe in God -- But What About Life After Death?
By Wolfgang Polzer
Special to ASSIST News Service
STUTTGART (ANS) -- Seven out ten Europeans believe in God. That is one
result of a representative survey conducted on behalf of Reader’s Digest
Germany. 8,600 persons in 14 European countries were interviewed
November through January. The results are published in the March issue
of the magazine.
Poland came out on top with 97 percent of the interviewees saying they
believe in God, followed by Portugal (90) and Russia (87). At the
bottom of the list are Belgium (58), the Netherlands (51) and the Czech
Republic (37).
The fact that someone believes in God does not necessarily mean that he
or she also believes in life after death. 53 percent of all Europeans
are convinced that physical death is not the end -- 18 percent fewer
than those who believe in God.
For 43 percent of all Europeans religion is necessary to be able to
distinguish between right and wrong. This conviction is strongest in
Poland (86), Russia (78) and Switzerland (54), whereas relatively few
people subscribe to this view in the Czech Republic (27), the
Netherlands (25) and France (24).
79 percent of the Portuguese are convinced that religion is a positive
force in the world. 78 percent of the Poles and 72 percent of the
Spaniards agree. Belgians (39), Russians (36) and the Dutch (34) are
not so sure.
Even 15 years after re-unification Germany is still a deeply divided
country as far as religion is concerned. In the former Communist East
77 percent are convinced that God does not exist compared to 22 percent
in the West.
The belief in God does not necessarily mean that Germans regard him as a
personal being. For 83 percent of all believers God is present in
nature, 75 percent regard him as their creator and 70 percent describe
him as an ever-present source in their life.
Religious faith is widely appreciated as giving a sense of protection
(45) or meaning in life (39). Only one percent say that faith
intimidates them. Almost one in five regards natural disasters,
epidemics or other catastrophes as expressions of God’s displeasure.
65 percent of all believers resort to prayer to get in touch with God.
Two thirds of all prayers are concerned with "people who are important
to me". Second on the list are peace and justice in the world. Only
relatively few prayers have to do with "my sins and my salvation" (13)
or "my work and my job" (11).
According to the survey churches are losing their influence. Faith is
regarded as a matter for the individual. 61 percent of all Germans say
that churches do not have any decisive say in matters of faith.
==================================================================.
Compare
Sagan, Carl. 1996. _The Demon-Haunted World: Science
as a Candle in the Dark_ (New York: Random House), 327.
Cited in Phillip E. Johnson, _Defeating Darwinism by
Opening Minds_ (Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1997), 131pp.,
47.
I meet many people who are offended by evolution, who
passionately prefer to be the personal handicraft of God
than to arise by blind physical and chemical forces over
aeons from slime. They also tend to be less than
assiduous in exposing themselves to the evidence.
Evidence has little to do with it. What they wish to be
true, they believe is true. Only nine percent of
Americans accept the central finding of modern biology
that human beings (and all the other species) have
slowly evolved by natural processes from a succession
of more ancient beings with no divine intervention
needed along the way.
Huba, Stephen. 22 Aug 1998. "Americans lead industrial
world in belief of creationism" _The Washington Times_, C5:
Citing Gallup and other public opinion polls since the early 1980s,
Mr. [George] Bishop said [in the Aug/Sept _Public Perspective_]
about 45 percent of Americans believe that God created man "pretty
much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years."
Another 40 percent believe that man developed over millions of
years from less advanced forms of life but that God guided this
process--what Mr. Bishop calls "theistic evolution." And 10
percent of Americans hold the Darwinist evolution position that man
developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life
but that God had no part in the process. .... Only 5 percent of
American natural and physical scientists believe in the biblical
creationist view, according to one survey. Fifty-five percent
endorse the Darwinist position, and 40 percent accept theistic
evolution.
In short,
10% of the American general public accepts the blindwatchmaking
position.
55% of American scientists accept the blindwatchmaking position.
45% of American scientists accept the seeingwatchmaking position.
85% of the American general public accepts the seeingwatchmaking
position.
.

User: "Danny Kodicek"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 01 Mar 2005 05:24:56 PM
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-38jm7kF5nte9eU1@individual.net...

Poland came out on top with 97 percent of the interviewees saying they
believe in God, followed by Portugal (90) and Russia (87). At the
bottom of the list are Belgium (58), the Netherlands (51) and the Czech
Republic (37).

Woo! Woo! Go my team!
Interesting that my Czech brethren and their Polish next-door-neighbours are
at opposite ends of the spectrum - given the number of quite regularly
attended churches in the Czech Republic, I can't help feeling that there
must be a flaw somewhere in the poll, though. Certainly the Czechs I know
have a distinct turn for the esoteric, even if they're not 'religious' in
the 'bow your head with great respect and / genuflect, genuflect, genuflect'
sense of the term. You can't heave a brick in Prague without hitting an
amateur alchemist.
Danny
.
User: "Rolf"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 02 Mar 2005 03:19:20 AM
Danny Kodicek <usenet@well-spring.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cR6Vd.4701$p62.1092@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...


"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-38jm7kF5nte9eU1@individual.net...

Poland came out on top with 97 percent of the interviewees saying they
believe in God, followed by Portugal (90) and Russia (87). At the
bottom of the list are Belgium (58), the Netherlands (51) and the Czech
Republic (37).


Woo! Woo! Go my team!

Interesting that my Czech brethren and their Polish next-door-neighbours

are

at opposite ends of the spectrum - given the number of quite regularly
attended churches in the Czech Republic, I can't help feeling that there
must be a flaw somewhere in the poll, though. Certainly the Czechs I know
have a distinct turn for the esoteric, even if they're not 'religious' in
the 'bow your head with great respect and / genuflect, genuflect,

genuflect'

sense of the term. You can't heave a brick in Prague without hitting an
amateur alchemist.

Danny

But nobody asks the questions: Which God? What God? God Who?
Why do they all take their own, limited concept of God for granted?
Rolf
.
User: "Brett Aubrey"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 02 Mar 2005 11:16:40 AM
"Rolf" <rolf.aalberg@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:syfVd.2580$4c.307024@juliett.dax.net...


Danny Kodicek <usenet@well-spring.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cR6Vd.4701$p62.1092@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...


"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-38jm7kF5nte9eU1@individual.net...

Poland came out on top with 97 percent of the interviewees saying they
believe in God, followed by Portugal (90) and Russia (87). At the
bottom of the list are Belgium (58), the Netherlands (51) and the
Czech Republic (37).


Woo! Woo! Go my team!

Interesting that my Czech brethren and their Polish next-door-neighbours
are at opposite ends of the spectrum - given the number of quite

regularly

attended churches in the Czech Republic, I can't help feeling that there
must be a flaw somewhere in the poll, though. Certainly the Czechs I

know

have a distinct turn for the esoteric, even if they're not 'religious'

in

the 'bow your head with great respect and / genuflect, genuflect,
genuflect' sense of the term. You can't heave a brick in Prague
without hitting an amateur alchemist.

Danny

But nobody asks the questions: Which God? What God? God Who?
Why do they all take their own, limited concept of God for granted?

Rolf

Indoctrination, or put more bluntly, brainwashing. Regards, Brett.
.


User: "John Wilkins"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 01 Mar 2005 06:13:03 PM
Danny Kodicek <usenet@well-spring.co.uk> wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-38jm7kF5nte9eU1@individual.net...

Poland came out on top with 97 percent of the interviewees saying they
believe in God, followed by Portugal (90) and Russia (87). At the
bottom of the list are Belgium (58), the Netherlands (51) and the Czech
Republic (37).


Woo! Woo! Go my team!

Interesting that my Czech brethren and their Polish next-door-neighbours are
at opposite ends of the spectrum - given the number of quite regularly
attended churches in the Czech Republic, I can't help feeling that there
must be a flaw somewhere in the poll, though. Certainly the Czechs I know
have a distinct turn for the esoteric, even if they're not 'religious' in
the 'bow your head with great respect and / genuflect, genuflect, genuflect'
sense of the term. You can't heave a brick in Prague without hitting an
amateur alchemist.

Danny

Much original architecture in the same place it was built? Alchemists
tend to rearrange the scenery, according to Pratchett...
--
John S. Wilkins
AA#2207
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
Fiat lunch!
.
User: "Danny Kodicek"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 02 Mar 2005 09:12:17 AM
"John Wilkins" <johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au> wrote in message
news:1gsslmz.1332gxfc0stmzN%johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au...

Danny Kodicek <usenet@well-spring.co.uk> wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-38jm7kF5nte9eU1@individual.net...

Poland came out on top with 97 percent of the interviewees saying they
believe in God, followed by Portugal (90) and Russia (87). At the
bottom of the list are Belgium (58), the Netherlands (51) and the

Czech

Republic (37).


Woo! Woo! Go my team!

Interesting that my Czech brethren and their Polish next-door-neighbours

are

at opposite ends of the spectrum - given the number of quite regularly
attended churches in the Czech Republic, I can't help feeling that there
must be a flaw somewhere in the poll, though. Certainly the Czechs I

know

have a distinct turn for the esoteric, even if they're not 'religious'

in

the 'bow your head with great respect and / genuflect, genuflect,

genuflect'

sense of the term. You can't heave a brick in Prague without hitting an
amateur alchemist.

Danny


Much original architecture in the same place it was built? Alchemists
tend to rearrange the scenery, according to Pratchett...

The ones I know are more the 'metaphorical alchemy as transmutation of the
soul' types, although there's a fair few labs too (hence the reason that the
Czechs have always been world leaders in the glass industry). Any scenery
rearrangement is going to be of the metaphysical rather than explosive kind
:)
Danny
.


User: "Steve Mading"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 01 Mar 2005 06:08:59 PM
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 23:24:56 GMT,
Danny Kodicek <usenet@well-spring.co.uk> wrote:

Interesting that my Czech brethren and their Polish next-door-neighbours are
at opposite ends of the spectrum - given the number of quite regularly
attended churches in the Czech Republic, I can't help feeling that there
must be a flaw somewhere in the poll, though. Certainly the Czechs I know
have a distinct turn for the esoteric, even if they're not 'religious' in
the 'bow your head with great respect and / genuflect, genuflect, genuflect'

Arrg! Damn You. Now I have that song stuck inside my head.
Tom Lehrer was awesome.
.


User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 01 Mar 2005 07:49:37 PM
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:14:38 -0500, david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu>
said in alt.atheism:

10% of the American general public accepts the blindwatchmaking
position.
55% of American scientists accept the blindwatchmaking position.

45% of American scientists accept the seeingwatchmaking position.
85% of the American general public accepts the seeingwatchmaking
position.

Reality is not a popularity contest.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he
unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."
-- Bertrand Russell.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.

User: "Chris Thompson"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 01 Mar 2005 11:39:56 AM
david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
news:dford3-38jm7kF5nte9eU1@individual.net:
snip


In short,
10% of the American general public accepts the blindwatchmaking
position.
55% of American scientists accept the blindwatchmaking position.

45% of American scientists accept the seeingwatchmaking position.
85% of the American general public accepts the seeingwatchmaking
position.

Actually, if you conducted a poll in the US and asked people how they
felt about "blindwatchmaking", I expect 99% of people would think you're
an idiot.
Meaning, there's hope for America.
--
Chris
aa#2186
Black helicopter mind-control-ray door-gunner
=====
"We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and
then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so
as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry
on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that
sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually
on a battlefield." --George Orwell, 1946, "Under Your Nose"
.

User: "Friar Broccoli"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 01 Mar 2005 06:25:55 PM
david ford wrote:

I'm trying to make sense of [Polzer]"The belief in God does not
necessarily mean that Germans regard him as a personal being. For 83
percent of all believers God is present in nature, 75 percent regard

him

as their creator...."

[...]

The belief in God does not necessarily mean that Germans regard him

as a

personal being. For 83 percent of all believers God is present in
nature, 75 percent regard him as their creator and 70 percent

describe

him as an ever-present source in their life.
Religious faith is widely appreciated as giving a sense of

protection

(45) or meaning in life (39). Only one percent say that faith
intimidates them. Almost one in five regards natural disasters,
epidemics or other catastrophes as expressions of God's displeasure.

65 percent of all believers resort to prayer to get in touch with

God.
In my OPINION the phrase:

Religious faith is widely appreciated as giving a sense of

protection

(45) or meaning in life (39).

provides the most meaningful information with respect to God as a
non-personal being. If people don't think God provides them with any
"protection" they probably don't believe that God has an interest in
their personal well being.
This makes sense of the idea that 83% think God is "in nature". That
can mean all sorts of things, but in many cases it is likely to mean
that people see God and nature as one and the same thing. Few people
believe that nature has a personal interest in them.
To the best of my knowledge, belief in a Christian god is quite low in
Western Europe, maybe below 30% or even lower. I suspect that most of
the believers in Europe are talking in a kind of vague general sense.
God is in The Great Broccoli !!
Cordially;
Friar Broccoli
Robert Keith Elias, Quebec, Canada Email: kelias (from) clic * net
Best programmer's & all purpose text editor: http://www.semware.com
--------- I consider ALL arguments in support of my views ---------
.

User: "Thomas Faller"

Title: Re: Belief in God in Europe 01 Mar 2005 12:04:23 PM
david ford wrote:

I'm trying to make sense of [Polzer]"The belief in God does not
necessarily mean that Germans regard him as a personal being. For 83
percent of all believers God is present in nature, 75 percent regard him
as their creator...."

From
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/s05020143.htm

Friday, February 25, 2005

SURVEY: WHAT EUROPEANS BELIEVE
Seven out of Ten Believe in God -- But What About Life After Death?

By Wolfgang Polzer
Special to ASSIST News Service

STUTTGART (ANS) -- Seven out ten Europeans believe in God. That is one
result of a representative survey conducted on behalf of Reader?s Digest
Germany. 8,600 persons in 14 European countries were interviewed
November through January. The results are published in the March issue
of the magazine.

Poland came out on top with 97 percent of the interviewees saying they
believe in God, followed by Portugal (90) and Russia (87). At the
bottom of the list are Belgium (58), the Netherlands (51) and the Czech
Republic (37).

The fact that someone believes in God does not necessarily mean that he
or she also believes in life after death. 53 percent of all Europeans
are convinced that physical death is not the end -- 18 percent fewer
than those who believe in God.

For 43 percent of all Europeans religion is necessary to be able to
distinguish between right and wrong. This conviction is strongest in
Poland (86), Russia (78) and Switzerland (54), whereas relatively few
people subscribe to this view in the Czech Republic (27), the
Netherlands (25) and France (24).

79 percent of the Portuguese are convinced that religion is a positive
force in the world. 78 percent of the Poles and 72 percent of the
Spaniards agree. Belgians (39), Russians (36) and the Dutch (34) are
not so sure.

Even 15 years after re-unification Germany is still a deeply divided
country as far as religion is concerned. In the former Communist East
77 percent are convinced that God does not exist compared to 22 percent
in the West.

The belief in God does not necessarily mean that Germans regard him as a
personal being. For 83 percent of all believers God is present in
nature, 75 percent regard him as their creator and 70 percent describe
him as an ever-present source in their life.
Religious faith is widely appreciated as giving a sense of protection
(45) or meaning in life (39). Only one percent say that faith
intimidates them. Almost one in five regards natural disasters,
epidemics or other catastrophes as expressions of God?s displeasure.

65 percent of all believers resort to prayer to get in touch with God.
Two thirds of all prayers are concerned with "people who are important
to me". Second on the list are peace and justice in the world. Only
relatively few prayers have to do with "my sins and my salvation" (13)
or "my work and my job" (11).

According to the survey churches are losing their influence. Faith is
regarded as a matter for the individual. 61 percent of all Germans say
that churches do not have any decisive say in matters of faith.

==================================================================.
Compare

Sagan, Carl. 1996. _The Demon-Haunted World: Science
as a Candle in the Dark_ (New York: Random House), 327.
Cited in Phillip E. Johnson, _Defeating Darwinism by
Opening Minds_ (Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1997), 131pp.,
47.
I meet many people who are offended by evolution, who
passionately prefer to be the personal handicraft of God
than to arise by blind physical and chemical forces over
aeons from slime. They also tend to be less than
assiduous in exposing themselves to the evidence.
Evidence has little to do with it. What they wish to be
true, they believe is true. Only nine percent of
Americans accept the central finding of modern biology
that human beings (and all the other species) have
slowly evolved by natural processes from a succession
of more ancient beings with no divine intervention
needed along the way.

Huba, Stephen. 22 Aug 1998. "Americans lead industrial
world in belief of creationism" _The Washington Times_, C5:
Citing Gallup and other public opinion polls since the early 1980s,
Mr. [George] Bishop said [in the Aug/Sept _Public Perspective_]
about 45 percent of Americans believe that God created man "pretty
much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years."
Another 40 percent believe that man developed over millions of
years from less advanced forms of life but that God guided this
process--what Mr. Bishop calls "theistic evolution." And 10
percent of Americans hold the Darwinist evolution position that man
developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life
but that God had no part in the process. .... Only 5 percent of
American natural and physical scientists believe in the biblical
creationist view, according to one survey. Fifty-five percent
endorse the Darwinist position, and 40 percent accept theistic
evolution.

In short,
10% of the American general public accepts the blindwatchmaking
position.
55% of American scientists accept the blindwatchmaking position.

45% of American scientists accept the seeingwatchmaking position.
85% of the American general public accepts the seeingwatchmaking
position.

Dave, it looks like the answer to your question at the top, as well as a personal
comment on your last paragraph, is found in the sentence you included from
Sagan:
"What they wish to be true, they believe is true."
The Europeans you are puzzled about do not accord with your own beliefs
because they don't want to believe in a personal God. They doubtless find
you as irrational as you find them. Neither of you has the burden of proof
on your side.
Your statistics prove Sagan's maxim again. You accept statistics that bolster
your own beliefs and ignore those which don't. You don't find any
discontinuities in your arguments because you don't wish to believe they
are there. And with the Web, you can always find someone, somewhere,
who will agree with you, and you apparently delight in demonstrating
that fact to us.
Tom Faller
.


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