| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"L. Raymond" |
| Date: |
15 Apr 2006 02:43:44 AM |
| Object: |
Believe the obvious - It's a miracle |
Another fool chimes in on the walking on ice theory recently put
forth. It's an amusing read for those who aren't yet sick to death of
Christians who say "that stuff is superstition, but our stuff is real":
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/122006mc.asp
It's hard to believe any such theories are ever taken seriously. Yet
they often are. Why? Why is it so incredibly hard for some to believe
the obvious -- a miracle took place?
....
Still another reason why some people have a hard time accepting the
miracles described in the Bible is because they compare them to Greek
and Roman mythology -- tales of pagan miracle accounts that are clearly
superstition. The difference, however, between the miraculous events
recorded in the Bible and those in pagan religions are the firsthand
accounts. In the Bible, miraculous events are always validated by the
testimony of eyewitnesses.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Ken" |
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| Title: Re: Believe the obvious - It's a miracle |
15 Apr 2006 03:19:44 PM |
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 02:43:44 -0500, L. Raymond wrote:
It's hard to believe any such theories are ever taken seriously. Yet they
often are. Why? Why is it so incredibly hard for some to believe the
obvious -- a miracle took place?
Isn't it easier to believe someone just lied?
- --
Ken
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Believe the obvious - It's a miracle |
17 Apr 2006 07:55:54 PM |
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:19:44 -0500, Ken <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 02:43:44 -0500, L. Raymond wrote:
It's hard to believe any such theories are ever taken seriously. Yet they
often are. Why? Why is it so incredibly hard for some to believe the
obvious -- a miracle took place?
Isn't it easier to believe someone just lied?
Not when the individual's not gibbering in terror only because of their
'security blankie.'
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Believe the obvious - It's a miracle |
15 Apr 2006 04:37:34 AM |
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 02:43:44 -0500, "L. Raymond"
<badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
- Refer: <nfl31cdpayra.1txa2dgi610mw$.dlg@40tude.net>
Another fool chimes in on the walking on ice theory recently put
forth. It's an amusing read for those who aren't yet sick to death of
Christians who say "that stuff is superstition, but our stuff is real":
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/122006mc.asp
It's hard to believe any such theories are ever taken seriously. Yet
they often are. Why? Why is it so incredibly hard for some to believe
the obvious -- a miracle took place?
...
Still another reason why some people have a hard time accepting the
miracles described in the Bible is because they compare them to Greek
and Roman mythology -- tales of pagan miracle accounts that are clearly
superstition. The difference, however, between the miraculous events
recorded in the Bible and those in pagan religions are the firsthand
accounts. In the Bible, miraculous events are always validated by the
testimony of eyewitnesses.
It is called "grasping at straws", as any terminally drowning
individual is prone to do.
--
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Believe the obvious - It's a miracle |
15 Apr 2006 05:28:32 AM |
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 02:43:44 -0500, "L. Raymond"
<badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Another fool chimes in on the walking on ice theory recently put
forth. It's an amusing read for those who aren't yet sick to death of
Christians who say "that stuff is superstition, but our stuff is real":
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/122006mc.asp
It's hard to believe any such theories are ever taken seriously. Yet
they often are. Why? Why is it so incredibly hard for some to believe
the obvious -- a miracle took place?
Why do they imagine it is obvious?
...
Still another reason why some people have a hard time accepting the
miracles described in the Bible is because they compare them to Greek
and Roman mythology -- tales of pagan miracle accounts that are clearly
superstition.
Just like the Christian ones.
The difference, however, between the miraculous events
recorded in the Bible and those in pagan religions are the firsthand
accounts. In the Bible, miraculous events are always validated by the
testimony of eyewitnesses.
Whom do they imagine they fool with these imaginary eye witnesses in
a book of mythology, apart from themselves?
It's an insult to the intelligence that they expect us to be even more
gullible than they are with such transparent stupidity.
Couple that with the fact that they lie about us rather than grant the
reasons we give them.
Is it any wonder they get treated as the rude, dishonest idiots they
show themselves to be?
Here's a real reason not to accept these alleged miracles: they
describe impossibilities.
And then there's Hume's maxim which summarises the way people who
haven't even heard of the Scottish philosopher, think:
"no testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the
testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more
miraculous, than the fact which it endeavours to establish"
An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, David Hume, 1748
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Believe the obvious - It's a miracle |
15 Apr 2006 07:55:08 AM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism
L. Raymond <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Still another reason why some people have a hard time accepting the
miracles described in the Bible is because they compare them to Greek
and Roman mythology -- tales of pagan miracle accounts that are clearly
superstition.
Just like the Christian ones.
Why can't they see that?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Believe the obvious - It's a miracle |
17 Apr 2006 07:54:37 PM |
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:55:08 GMT, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net>
wrote in alt.atheism
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism
L. Raymond <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Still another reason why some people have a hard time accepting the
miracles described in the Bible is because they compare them to Greek
and Roman mythology -- tales of pagan miracle accounts that are clearly
superstition.
Just like the Christian ones.
Why can't they see that?
Fear and terror. They need their 'security blankie' to regain some
operational capacity.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Believe the obvious - It's a miracle |
16 Apr 2006 04:48:57 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
"L. Raymond" wrote:
The difference, however, between the miraculous events
recorded in the Bible and those in pagan religions are the firsthand
accounts. In the Bible, miraculous events are always validated by the
testimony of eyewitnesses.
Whom do they imagine they fool with these imaginary eye witnesses in
a book of mythology, apart from themselves?
If I thought for one second an email about this would have been read,
I would've written to point out that logically all the "pagan" miracles
had eyewitnesses, too, else they could not have been told to others.
And then there's Hume's maxim which summarises the way people who
haven't even heard of the Scottish philosopher, think:
"no testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the
testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more
miraculous, than the fact which it endeavours to establish"
An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, David Hume, 1748
I'll match that with the closing paragraphs of one of my favorite
essays, "A Tale of a Tub", by Bergen Evans (1946):
Obscurantism and tyranny go together as naturally as skepticism and
democracy. It is very convenient for anyone who profits by the docility
of the masses to have them believe that they are not the masters of
their fate and that the evils they must endure are beyond human control.
It was not surprising to find the author of Man the Unknown
collaborating with the Nazis. The mist of mysticism has always provided
good cover for those who do not want their actions too closely looked
into.
From the time of the Peasants' Rebellion on, all true democratic
movements have been branded as anti-religious. In part this has been an
effort to discredit them, and in part it has been a perception that
democracy is essentially antiauthoritarian--that it not only demands the
right but imposes the responsibility of thinking for ourselves. And
belief is the antithesis to thinking. A refusal to come to an
unjustified conclusion is an element of an honest man's religion. To him
the call to blind faith is really a call to barbarism and slavery. In
being asked to believe without evidence, he is being asked to abdicate
his integrity. Freedom of speech and freedom of action are meaningless
without freedom to think. And there is no freedom of thought without
doubt. The civilized man has a moral obligation to be skeptical, to
demand the credentials of all statements that claim to be facts. An
honorable man will not be bullied by a hypothesis. For in the last
analysis all tyranny rests on fraud, on getting someone to accept false
assumptions, and any man who for one moment abandons or suspends the
questioning spirit has for that moment betrayed humanity.
(Whole thing at http://www.christianitymeme.org/tub.html)
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Believe the obvious - It's a miracle |
16 Apr 2006 05:13:02 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:48:57 -0500, "L. Raymond"
<badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
"L. Raymond" wrote:
The difference, however, between the miraculous events
recorded in the Bible and those in pagan religions are the firsthand
accounts. In the Bible, miraculous events are always validated by the
testimony of eyewitnesses.
Whom do they imagine they fool with these imaginary eye witnesses in
a book of mythology, apart from themselves?
If I thought for one second an email about this would have been read,
I would've written to point out that logically all the "pagan" miracles
had eyewitnesses, too, else they could not have been told to others.
Or they made them up. Or they spread like urban legends. Or they were
just stories.
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