On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 01:46:43 GMT, homer wrote:

Oh dear, you obviously meant for the bleater groups, so the follow ups are
set accordingly.
Now, if you had meant it for the atheist group , then the following would
be more appropriate, history versus preaching, which is against the FAQ of
the AA group, not that you care. Or your posting history indicates that
anyway.

This is from the Jewish mythology, one of the supporting documents. No
doubt you will not recognise it, which would not be a shock either.

Where in at the age of 20 days he was flapping his lips.


Thus Abraham was deserted in the cave, without a nurse, and he began to
wail. God sent Gabriel down to give him milk to drink, and the angel made
it to flow from the little finger of the baby's right hand, and he sucked
at it until he was ten days old. Then he arose and walked about, and he
left the cave, and went along the edge of the valley. When the sun sank,
and the stars came forth, he said, "These are the gods!" But the dawn came,
and the stars could be seen no longer, and then he said, "I will not pay
worship to these, for they are no gods." Thereupon the sun came forth, and
he spoke, "This is my god, him will I extol." But again the sun set, and he
said, "He is no god," and beholding the moon, he called her his god to whom
he would pay Divine homage. Then the moon was obscured, and he cried out:
"This, too, is no god! There is One who sets them all in motion."

He was still communing with himself when the angel Gabriel approached him
and met him with the greeting, "Peace be with thee," and Abraham returned,
"With thee be peace," and asked, "Who art thou?" And Gabriel answered, and
said, "I am the angel Gabriel, the messenger of God," and he led Abraham to
a spring of water near by, and Abraham washed his face and his hands and
feet, and he prayed to God, bowing down and prostrating himself.

Meantime the mother of Abraham thought of him in sorrow and tears, and she
went forth from the city to seek him in the cave in which she had abandoned
him. Not finding her son, she wept bitterly, and said, "Woe unto me that I
bore thee but to become a prey of wild beasts, the bears and the lions and
the wolves!" She went to the edge of the valley, and there she found her
son. But she did not recognize him, for he had grown very large. She
addressed the lad, "Peace be with thee!" and he returned, "With thee be
peace!" and he continued, "Unto what purpose didst thou come to the
desert?" She replied, "I went forth from the city to seek my son." Abraham
questioned further, "Who brought thy son hither?" and the mother replied
thereto: "I had become pregnant from my husband Terah, and when the days of
my delivery were fulfilled, I was in anxiety about my son in my womb, lest
our king come, the son of Canaan, and slay him as he had slain the seventy
thousand other men children. Scarcely had I reached the cave in this valley
when the throes of travailing seized me, and I bore a son, whom I left
behind in the cave, and I went home again. Now am I come to seek him, but I
find him not."

Abraham then spoke, "As to this child thou tellest of, how old was it?"

The mother: "It was about twenty days old."

Abraham: "Is there a woman in the world who would forsake her new-born son
in the desert, and come to seek him after twenty days?"

The mother: "Peradventure God will show Himself a merciful God!"

Abraham: "I am the son whom thou hast come to seek in this valley!"

The mother: "My son, how thou art grown! But twenty days old, and thou
canst already walk, and talk with thy mouth!"

Abraham: "So it is, and thus, O my mother, it is made known unto thee that
there is in the world a great, terrible, living, and ever-existing God, who
doth see, but who cannot be seen. He is in the heavens above, and the whole
earth is full of His glory."

The mother: "My son, is there a God beside Nimrod?"

Abraham: "Yes, mother, the God of the heavens and the God of the earth, He
is also the God of Nimrod son of Canaan. Go, therefore, and carry this
message unto Nimrod."

The mother of Abraham returned to the city and told her husband Terah how
she had found their son. Terah, who was a prince and a magnate in the house
of the king, betook himself to the royal palace, and cast himself down
before the king upon his face. It was the rule that one who prostrated
himself before the king was not permitted to lift up his head until the
king bade him lift it up. Nimrod gave permission to Terah to rise and state
his request. Thereupon Terah related all that had happened with his wife
and his son. When Nimrod heard his tale, abject fear seized upon him, and
he asked his counsellors and princes what to do with the lad. They
answered, and said: "Our king and our god! Wherefore art thou in fear by
reason of a little child? There are myriads upon myriads of princes in thy
realm, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and
rulers of tens, and overseers without number. Let the pettiest of the
princes go and fetch the boy and put him in prison." But the king
interposed, "Have ye ever seen a baby of twenty days walking with his feet,
speaking with his mouth, and proclaiming with his tongue that there is a
God in heaven, who is One, and none beside Him, who sees and is not seen?"
All the assembled princes were horror struck at these words.

At this time Satan in human form appeared, clad in black silk garb, and he
cast himself down before the king. Nimrod said, "Raise thy head and state
thy request." Satan asked the king: "Why art thou terrified, and why are ye
all in fear on account of a little lad? I will counsel thee what thou shalt
do: Open thy arsenal and give weapons unto all the princes, chiefs, and
governors, and unto all the warriors, and send them to fetch him unto thy
service and to be under thy dominion."

This advice given by Satan the king accepted and followed. He sent a great
armed host to bring Abraham to him. When the boy saw the army approach him,
he was sore afraid, and amid tears he implored God for help. In answer to
his prayer, God sent the angel Gabriel to him, and he said: "Be not afraid
and disquieted, for God is with thee. He will rescue thee out of the hands
of all thine adversaries." God commanded Gabriel to put thick, dark clouds
between Abraham and his assailants. Dismayed by the heavy clouds, they
fled, returning to Nimrod, their king, and they said to him, "Let us depart
and leave this realm," and the king gave money unto all his princes and his
servants, and together with the king they departed and journeyed to
Babylon.



Herein one can note a common theme from ANE mythology, the signs of
miracles, in this case, 20 days & talking, intelligently talking if the
myth is to be believed. In the following we notice similarity's between the
Greek based xianity & the Jewish myth. Pay attention Homer, & learn from
the parent myth your's claims to draw the authority for its existence from.


Abraham whelped, & the heavens sing, as does he.

Terah married Emtelai, the daughter of Karnabo, and the offspring of their
union was Abraham. His birth had been read in the stars by Nimrod, for this
impious king was a cunning astrologer, and it was manifest to him that a
man would be born in his day who would rise up against him and triumphantly
give the lie to his religion. In his terror at the fate foretold him in the
stars, he sent for his princes and governors, and asked them to advise him
in the matter. They answered, and said: "Our unanimous advice is that thou
shouldst build a great house, station a guard at the entrance thereof, and
make known in the whole of thy realm that all pregnant women shall repair
thither together with their midwives, who are to remain with them when they
are delivered. When the days of a woman to be delivered are fulfilled, and
the child is born, it shall be the duty of the midwife to kill it, if it be
a boy. But if the child be a girl, it shall be kept alive, and the mother
shall receive gifts and costly garments, and a herald shall proclaim, 'Thus
is done unto the woman who bears a daughter!' "

The king was pleased with this counsel, and he had a proclamation published
throughout his whole kingdom, summoning all the architects to build a great
house for him, sixty ells high and eighty wide. After it was completed, he
issued a second proclamation, summoning all pregnant women thither, and
there they were to remain until their confinement. Officers were appointed
to take the women to the house, and guards were stationed in it and about
it, to prevent the women from escaping thence. He furthermore sent midwives
to the house, and commanded them to slay the men children at their mothers'
breasts. But if a woman bore a girl, she was to be arrayed in byssus, silk,
and embroidered garments, and led forth from the house of detention amid
great honors. No less than seventy thousand children were slaughtered thus.
Then the angels appeared before God, and spoke, "Seest Thou not what he
doth, yon sinner and blasphemer, Nimrod son of Canaarl, who slays so many
innocent babes that have done no harm?" God answered, and said: "Ye holy
angels, I know it and I see it, for I neither slumber nor sleep. I behold
and I know the secret things and the things that are revealed, and ye shall
witness what I will do unto this sinner and blasphemer, for I will turn My
hand against him to chastise him."

It was about this time that Terah espoused the mother of Abraham, and she
was with child. When her body grew large at the end of three months of
pregnancy, and her countenance became pale, Terah said unto her, "What ails
thee, my wife, that thy countenance is so pale and thy body so swollen?"
She answered, and said, "Every year I suffer with this malady." But Terah
would not be put off thus. He insisted: "Show me thy body. It seems to me
thou art big with child. If that be so, it behooves us not to violate the
command of our god Nimrod." When he passed his hand over her body, there
happened a miracle. The child rose until it lay beneath her breasts, and
Terah could feel nothing with his hands. He said to his wife, "Thou didst
speak truly," and naught became visible until the day of her delivery.

When her time approached, she left the city in great terror and wandered
toward the desert, walking along the edge of a valley, until she happened
across a cave. She entered this refuge, and on the next day she was seized
with throes, and she gave birth to a son. The whole cave was filled with
the light of the child's countenance as with the splendor of the sun, and
the mother rejoiced exceedingly. The babe she bore was our father Abraham.

His mother lamented, and said to her son: "Alas that I bore thee at a time
when Nimrod is king. For thy sake seventy thousand men children were
slaughtered, and I am seized with terror on account of thee, that he hear
of thy existence, and slay thee. Better thou shouldst perish here in this
cave than my eye should behold thee dead at my breast." She took the
garment in which she was clothed, and wrapped it about the boy. Then she
abandoned him in the cave, saying, "May the Lord be with thee, may He not
fail thee nor forsake thee."



Of course, the lessons in the above are missed by xians, but without them.,
t'is unlikely that the ploy to tie the invisible man would be so miracle
ridden, & so obviously false to those that actually do study myths,, their
history, era location. The why stands out, just not the gods, Course I
could be wrong, but I don't think so. Anyone having evidence is free to
present it for examination & evaluation.
& no, the grimorie is not evidence of facts claimed by either the Jewish or
xian mythology.

Luke 1:57-66,80

Snip pretending that claims of a false mythology have any meaning outside
that myth & its followers.

(My comments are always meant as just my personal opinions and
observations on the passages I quote, and I fully recognize may be
wrong and always incomplete. Other competing, and contradictory, views
from atheists or christians or others are always welcome.)

walksalone who has observed that the bleater brigade is not really here for
factual discussion, so will continue to return these to the proper venue.

and why do you feel it's necessary to dump your superstitious
crap on people in alt.atheism?

homer <xxx@xxx.com> wrote in news:ihkpd0p00l2evi1vq3bcf5ujjnnbjkd07j@
4ax.com:

(snip *****)

and why do you feel it's necessary to dump your superstitious crap on
people in alt.atheism?

homer wrote:

Luke 1:57-66,80

57 Now the time came for Elizabeth to be delivered, and
she gave birth to a son....

Big fucking deal. Women have been giving birth to boys for
millions of years.