| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"johac" |
| Date: |
13 Sep 2007 12:52:31 AM |
| Object: |
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
Neanderthals were a dead-end offshoot of the human line who inhabited
Europe and parts of west and central Asia.
Despite their image as club-carrying hairy brutes, research suggests
they were expert tool-makers, used animal skins to keep warm and cared
for each other.
Most researchers believe Neanderthals survived in Europe until the
arrival of fully modern humans about 30,000 years ago but controversial
findings last year indicated they might have survived to as recently as
24,000 years ago.
Some have used the more recent date to link the disappearance of the
Neanderthals with drastic climate changes during the destruction of ice
shelves that allowed modern humans to thrive, the researchers wrote.
But using radiocarbon dating on sediment samples collected from deep
beneath the sea off Venezuela, the team painted a climate picture during
the time of the last Neanderthals and found they died out long before
such severe climate events.
The team found that even though temperatures were fluctuating 30,000
years ago, the swings were not severe and similar to climate changes
Neanderthals previously withstood.
Additionally, none of the dates ranging from 24,000 to 32,000 years ago
that the researchers tested corresponded with any big climate changes.
This makes it likely that a combination of climate change and the impact
of humans was responsible for the disappearance of Neanderthals,
Tzedakis said.
One theory is that colder weather in northern regions spurred a
migration of Neanderthals and modern-day humans to southern Europe where
the last known Neanderthals lived.
"They went through these climate events before and bounced back,"
Tzedakis said. "Climate on its own may not be the most parsimonious
explanation."
---
http://tinyurl.com/26xyxl
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 07:24:34 AM |
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On 13 sep, 07:52, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
Neanderthals were a dead-end offshoot of the human line who inhabited
Europe and parts of west and central Asia.
Despite their image as club-carrying hairy brutes, research suggests
they were expert tool-makers, used animal skins to keep warm and cared
for each other.
Most researchers believe Neanderthals survived in Europe until the
arrival of fully modern humans about 30,000 years ago but controversial
findings last year indicated they might have survived to as recently as
24,000 years ago.
Some have used the more recent date to link the disappearance of the
Neanderthals with drastic climate changes during the destruction of ice
shelves that allowed modern humans to thrive, the researchers wrote.
But using radiocarbon dating on sediment samples collected from deep
beneath the sea off Venezuela, the team painted a climate picture during
the time of the last Neanderthals and found they died out long before
such severe climate events.
The team found that even though temperatures were fluctuating 30,000
years ago, the swings were not severe and similar to climate changes
Neanderthals previously withstood.
Additionally, none of the dates ranging from 24,000 to 32,000 years ago
that the researchers tested corresponded with any big climate changes.
This makes it likely that a combination of climate change and the impact
of humans was responsible for the disappearance of Neanderthals,
Tzedakis said.
One theory is that colder weather in northern regions spurred a
migration of Neanderthals and modern-day humans to southern Europe where
the last known Neanderthals lived.
"They went through these climate events before and bounced back,"
Tzedakis said. "Climate on its own may not be the most parsimonious
explanation."
---http://tinyurl.com/26xyxl
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
Sorry, you mean to say that they found the LAST Neanderthal?
How do they know, did he leave a testimony?
Did Cro-Magnon's erect a tombstone "Here lies the last Neanderthal
(wo)man?"
I suspect - as usual - we don't get any information about the real
data being handled, but only a lot of interpretation.
Alas!
Peter van Velzen
September 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 05:42:47 PM |
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In article <1189686274.222896.81390@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
"pbamvv@worldonline.nl" <pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
On 13 sep, 07:52, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
Neanderthals were a dead-end offshoot of the human line who inhabited
Europe and parts of west and central Asia.
Despite their image as club-carrying hairy brutes, research suggests
they were expert tool-makers, used animal skins to keep warm and cared
for each other.
Most researchers believe Neanderthals survived in Europe until the
arrival of fully modern humans about 30,000 years ago but controversial
findings last year indicated they might have survived to as recently as
24,000 years ago.
Some have used the more recent date to link the disappearance of the
Neanderthals with drastic climate changes during the destruction of ice
shelves that allowed modern humans to thrive, the researchers wrote.
But using radiocarbon dating on sediment samples collected from deep
beneath the sea off Venezuela, the team painted a climate picture during
the time of the last Neanderthals and found they died out long before
such severe climate events.
The team found that even though temperatures were fluctuating 30,000
years ago, the swings were not severe and similar to climate changes
Neanderthals previously withstood.
Additionally, none of the dates ranging from 24,000 to 32,000 years ago
that the researchers tested corresponded with any big climate changes.
This makes it likely that a combination of climate change and the impact
of humans was responsible for the disappearance of Neanderthals,
Tzedakis said.
One theory is that colder weather in northern regions spurred a
migration of Neanderthals and modern-day humans to southern Europe where
the last known Neanderthals lived.
"They went through these climate events before and bounced back,"
Tzedakis said. "Climate on its own may not be the most parsimonious
explanation."
---http://tinyurl.com/26xyxl
--
Sorry, you mean to say that they found the LAST Neanderthal?
How do they know, did he leave a testimony?
Did Cro-Magnon's erect a tombstone "Here lies the last Neanderthal
(wo)man?"
I suspect - as usual - we don't get any information about the real
data being handled, but only a lot of interpretation.
That's what a lot of science is though. We gather what evidence is
available, try to make a reasonable hypothesis out of it, then argue
about it until some more evidence comes along.
Alas!
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
14 Sep 2007 07:23:33 AM |
|
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On 14 sep, 00:42, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <1189686274.222896.81...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
"pba...@worldonline.nl" <pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote:
On 13 sep, 07:52, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
Neanderthals were a dead-end offshoot of the human line who inhabited
Europe and parts of west and central Asia.
Despite their image as club-carrying hairy brutes, research suggests
they were expert tool-makers, used animal skins to keep warm and cared
for each other.
Most researchers believe Neanderthals survived in Europe until the
arrival of fully modern humans about 30,000 years ago but controversial
findings last year indicated they might have survived to as recently as
24,000 years ago.
Some have used the more recent date to link the disappearance of the
Neanderthals with drastic climate changes during the destruction of ice
shelves that allowed modern humans to thrive, the researchers wrote.
But using radiocarbon dating on sediment samples collected from deep
beneath the sea off Venezuela, the team painted a climate picture during
the time of the last Neanderthals and found they died out long before
such severe climate events.
The team found that even though temperatures were fluctuating 30,000
years ago, the swings were not severe and similar to climate changes
Neanderthals previously withstood.
Additionally, none of the dates ranging from 24,000 to 32,000 years ago
that the researchers tested corresponded with any big climate changes.
This makes it likely that a combination of climate change and the impact
of humans was responsible for the disappearance of Neanderthals,
Tzedakis said.
One theory is that colder weather in northern regions spurred a
migration of Neanderthals and modern-day humans to southern Europe where
the last known Neanderthals lived.
"They went through these climate events before and bounced back,"
Tzedakis said. "Climate on its own may not be the most parsimonious
explanation."
---http://tinyurl.com/26xyxl
--
Sorry, you mean to say that they found the LAST Neanderthal?
How do they know, did he leave a testimony?
Did Cro-Magnon's erect a tombstone "Here lies the last Neanderthal
(wo)man?"
I suspect - as usual - we don't get any information about the real
data being handled, but only a lot of interpretation.
That's what a lot of science is though. We gather what evidence is
available, try to make a reasonable hypothesis out of it, then argue
about it until some more evidence comes along.
I wasn't complaining about the science
I was complaining about journalism,
which nowadays gives you about everything, except the facts):
Peter van Velzen
September 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
14 Sep 2007 05:33:32 PM |
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In article <1189772613.761184.221050@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
"pbamvv@worldonline.nl" <pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
On 14 sep, 00:42, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <1189686274.222896.81...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
"pba...@worldonline.nl" <pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote:
On 13 sep, 07:52, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
Neanderthals were a dead-end offshoot of the human line who inhabited
Europe and parts of west and central Asia.
Despite their image as club-carrying hairy brutes, research suggests
they were expert tool-makers, used animal skins to keep warm and cared
for each other.
Most researchers believe Neanderthals survived in Europe until the
arrival of fully modern humans about 30,000 years ago but controversial
findings last year indicated they might have survived to as recently as
24,000 years ago.
Some have used the more recent date to link the disappearance of the
Neanderthals with drastic climate changes during the destruction of ice
shelves that allowed modern humans to thrive, the researchers wrote.
But using radiocarbon dating on sediment samples collected from deep
beneath the sea off Venezuela, the team painted a climate picture during
the time of the last Neanderthals and found they died out long before
such severe climate events.
The team found that even though temperatures were fluctuating 30,000
years ago, the swings were not severe and similar to climate changes
Neanderthals previously withstood.
Additionally, none of the dates ranging from 24,000 to 32,000 years ago
that the researchers tested corresponded with any big climate changes.
This makes it likely that a combination of climate change and the impact
of humans was responsible for the disappearance of Neanderthals,
Tzedakis said.
One theory is that colder weather in northern regions spurred a
migration of Neanderthals and modern-day humans to southern Europe where
the last known Neanderthals lived.
"They went through these climate events before and bounced back,"
Tzedakis said. "Climate on its own may not be the most parsimonious
explanation."
---http://tinyurl.com/26xyxl
--
Sorry, you mean to say that they found the LAST Neanderthal?
How do they know, did he leave a testimony?
Did Cro-Magnon's erect a tombstone "Here lies the last Neanderthal
(wo)man?"
I suspect - as usual - we don't get any information about the real
data being handled, but only a lot of interpretation.
That's what a lot of science is though. We gather what evidence is
available, try to make a reasonable hypothesis out of it, then argue
about it until some more evidence comes along.
I wasn't complaining about the science
I was complaining about journalism,
which nowadays gives you about everything, except the facts):
I see. Science journalism, especially in the US stinks. Unfortunately
much of the original papers are published in subscription only journals,
so we have to rely on the hacks to get the story. (Some are better than
others.)
Peter van Velzen
September 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 08:35:11 AM |
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On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 05:39:49 PM |
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In article <1189690511.574016.284080@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
If the early Homo sapiens were anything like us, they probably killed
the Neanderthals because they weren't them.
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 10:14:46 PM |
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"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-E515CD.15394913092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <1189690511.574016.284080@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international
team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
If the early Homo sapiens were anything like us, they probably killed
the Neanderthals because they weren't them.
Neanderthals believed in the wrong god(s)!
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 11:36:56 PM |
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|
In article <G0nGi.29286$ka7.22470@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-E515CD.15394913092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <1189690511.574016.284080@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international
team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
If the early Homo sapiens were anything like us, they probably killed
the Neanderthals because they weren't them.
Neanderthals believed in the wrong god(s)!
Of course. And they were terrorists too!
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
|
|
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
14 Sep 2007 10:40:53 AM |
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|
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-3F2B10.21365613092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <G0nGi.29286$ka7.22470@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-E515CD.15394913092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <1189690511.574016.284080@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on
Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international
team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and
less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years
ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds,
who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
If the early Homo sapiens were anything like us, they probably killed
the Neanderthals because they weren't them.
Neanderthals believed in the wrong god(s)!
Of course. And they were terrorists too!
Were they flying Pterodacals into tall rocks? ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
14 Sep 2007 07:33:55 PM |
|
|
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:5kvo9hF5nti3U1@mid.individual.net...
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-3F2B10.21365613092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <G0nGi.29286$ka7.22470@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-E515CD.15394913092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <1189690511.574016.284080@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior
Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on
Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international
team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a
major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and
less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years
ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds,
who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
If the early Homo sapiens were anything like us, they probably killed
the Neanderthals because they weren't them.
Neanderthals believed in the wrong god(s)!
Of course. And they were terrorists too!
Were they flying Pterodacals into tall rocks? ;)
Nah. They just rolled a big boulder in front of the Sapiens' cave entrance
to block it off.
They came back three days later and found that the bodies had all gone.
According to the Neanderthals, they'd all ascended the heaven.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
15 Sep 2007 12:46:02 AM |
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In article <TLFGi.63120$sI3.32412@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:5kvo9hF5nti3U1@mid.individual.net...
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-3F2B10.21365613092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <G0nGi.29286$ka7.22470@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-E515CD.15394913092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <1189690511.574016.284080@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior
Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on
Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international
team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a
major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and
less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years
ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds,
who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
If the early Homo sapiens were anything like us, they probably killed
the Neanderthals because they weren't them.
Neanderthals believed in the wrong god(s)!
Of course. And they were terrorists too!
Were they flying Pterodacals into tall rocks? ;)
Nah. They just rolled a big boulder in front of the Sapiens' cave entrance
to block it off.
They came back three days later and found that the bodies had all gone.
According to the Neanderthals, they'd all ascended the heaven.
Ook! Rapture come! Ook! Ook!
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
14 Sep 2007 05:36:51 PM |
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In article <5kvo9hF5nti3U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-3F2B10.21365613092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <G0nGi.29286$ka7.22470@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-E515CD.15394913092007@news.giganews.com...
In article <1189690511.574016.284080@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on
Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international
team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and
less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years
ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds,
who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
If the early Homo sapiens were anything like us, they probably killed
the Neanderthals because they weren't them.
Neanderthals believed in the wrong god(s)!
Of course. And they were terrorists too!
Were they flying Pterodacals into tall rocks? ;)
LOL! And they tried suicide bombers too. They fed one tribe member lots
of beans and told him to go into the other tribe's cave and 'explode'.
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 06:42:52 PM |
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On Sep 13, 3:39 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <1189690511.574016.284...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
If the early Homo sapiens were anything like us, they probably killed
the Neanderthals because they weren't them.
I've been hearing the theory that we killed off the Neanderthals
because they were rivals for years, but it never sounded quite right
to me. We don't kill other animals because they aren't us, we kill
them for food (generally, at least, and probably always when we were
still hunter gatherers). I think males would have killed off/chased
off sexual rivals (typical chimplike behaviour), and since
Neanderthals were not sexual rivals, the only reason to kill them
would have been for food. Maybe we killed them because they were
competing for the same food sources, but I have a hard time imagining
an early human, getting a kill, would just leave a meat uneaten. That
is too much work for no return when meals would have been somewhat
sporadic. I also imagine the Neanderthals as maybe being gentle
giants, not really equipped for the ultra-aggression of the homo
sapiens, because they sure look as if they could have wrung our puny
necks.
Which makes me wonder, do you know if anyone's ever studied Bonobos
together with Chimpanzees? I'd be curious about what might happen if
they did. Would the chimps wipe the bonobos out?
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 11:46:06 PM |
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In article <1189726972.123467.212480@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 13, 3:39 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <1189690511.574016.284...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international team
found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a major
change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and less
severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000 years ago,
said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University of Leeds, who
led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
If the early Homo sapiens were anything like us, they probably killed
the Neanderthals because they weren't them.
I've been hearing the theory that we killed off the Neanderthals
because they were rivals for years, but it never sounded quite right
to me. We don't kill other animals because they aren't us, we kill
them for food (generally, at least, and probably always when we were
still hunter gatherers). I think males would have killed off/chased
off sexual rivals (typical chimplike behaviour), and since
Neanderthals were not sexual rivals, the only reason to kill them
would have been for food. Maybe we killed them because they were
competing for the same food sources, but I have a hard time imagining
an early human, getting a kill, would just leave a meat uneaten. That
is too much work for no return when meals would have been somewhat
sporadic. I also imagine the Neanderthals as maybe being gentle
giants, not really equipped for the ultra-aggression of the homo
sapiens, because they sure look as if they could have wrung our puny
necks.
I think competition might have been an important factor. At least in
Europe, it is believed that the Neanderthals were there first. they
probably had all of the good hunting areas and food sources staked out
for themselves. When Sapiens came along, they wanted those areas for
themselves so they fought.
Which makes me wonder, do you know if anyone's ever studied Bonobos
together with Chimpanzees? I'd be curious about what might happen if
they did. Would the chimps wipe the bonobos out?
I don't know. A long long time ago, I read an account of an
anthropologist who captured a wild monkey and painted it green. When he
released it back among the other monkeys of the group from which he was
taken, they immediately attacked him and killed him. I don't have a
reference.
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 10:48:51 AM |
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Neil Kelsey wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on
Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international
team found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a
major change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and
less severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000
years ago, said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University
of Leeds, who led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
Why do you think they weren't interfertile?
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
13 Sep 2007 04:45:10 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:48:51 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com>
wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
On Sep 12, 10:52 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
So it looks like we did it.
---
Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals
By Michael KahnWed Sep 12, 2:20 PM ET
Neanderthals probably fell victim to taller and superior Cro-Magnons
rather than catastrophic climate change, researchers said on
Wednesday.
Using a new method to calibrate carbon-14 dating, the international
team found the last Neanderthals died at least 3,000 years before a
major change in temperatures occurred.
This suggests either modern humans or a combination of humans and
less severe climate change caused the species' demise some 30,000
years ago, said Chronis Tzedakis, a paleoecologist at the University
of Leeds, who led the study published in the journal Nature.
"What clearly emerges from our study is we can eliminate abrupt,
catastrophic climate change," he said in a telephone interview.
"It does point toward humans being involved as a factor."
I think we viewed Neanderthals as a food source and hunted them into
extinction. If you can't mate with them, then they must be food.
Why do you think they weren't interfertile?
There are no signs of Neanderthal genes in current humans.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"A myth is a fixed way of looking at the world which cannot be destroyed
because, looked at through the myth, all evidence supports the myth."
- Edward De Bono
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Big climate change did not kill Neanderthals |
14 Sep 2007 12:55:24 AM |
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Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
There are no signs of Neanderthal genes in current
humans.
That's not exactly correct.
If I asked you how you'd want to go about testing
such a theory, for example, nothing being done
today would come close to your idea of a good test.
I'll spell it out:
In order to truly rule out (or "Prove") interbreeding,
what we'd need is...
#1. DNA from modern humans before they left Africa.
#2. DNA from Neanderthals before modern humans left
Africa.
#3. DNA from modern Europeans today.
Thus far we have managed #3.
I'd also add a #4: A better understanding of DNA.
Currently, DNA is accepted as gospel. Problem is,
there are other forms of evidence, and they often
conflict with the DNA evidence. The present fad is
to set aside all other forms of evidence when it
conflicts with our interpretations of the DNA, but
that may change in the future.
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