| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
24 Nov 2006 10:00:25 PM |
| Object: |
Bill May Give Husbands Veto Over Abortion |
Who'd have thought that Russia would take the lead in exhibiting common
sense? God bless them!
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2006/11/24/014.html
State Duma deputies will consider a bill barring a wife from having an
abortion without her husband's consent.
"Above all, the bill is based on the concept of parental equality," its
author, Alexander Krutov of the nationalist Rodina party, said Thursday.
"The decision to give birth to or murder a baby is an enormous one and it
should be made by the parents together," he said by telephone.
The bill would require a wife to obtain her husband's written consent in the
presence of a doctor before having an abortion. A doctor who allows an
abortion without the written consent could face murder charges, Krutov said.
The bill will have to clear the State Duma's Public Health Committee before
being sent to the floor of the Duma for discussion, a process that could
take three weeks, Krutov said.
Women had more than 1.6 million abortions in 2005, roughly equal to the
number of births, Health and Social Development Minister Mikhail Zurabov
told the Duma in February.
The abortion rate, while still comparatively high, has declined over the
past decade. In 1993, it peaked at 235 per 100 live births. Around 46
million women worldwide have abortions each year, with the highest rates in
Romania, Cuba and Vietnam and the lowest rates in Belgium, the Netherlands
and Germany
--
--
----------
J Yöung
youngopinions@aol.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 07:13:28 PM |
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In article <lgekm2tfea706uhrmn6ehb60ujml40u1mr@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:35:23 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <444km25qtim5l7jhgrv1etfnnn4512t7m5@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:54:44 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
yet she gets a choice and he doesn't.
nonsense. did she rape him?
The choice to have sex is in most cases mutual. Neither has the upper
hand
in that one, except where nature has given it.
exactly, any pregnancy that results from mutual sex may be terminated
by the pregnant party.
Yup. The pregnant party may terminate her impending role as a parent at any
time and without consequence. The male still doesn't have that choice.
if he is pregnant, he does.
.
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| User: "Uncle Clover" |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 07:27:30 PM |
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On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:13:28 -0500, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <lgekm2tfea706uhrmn6ehb60ujml40u1mr@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:35:23 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <444km25qtim5l7jhgrv1etfnnn4512t7m5@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:54:44 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
yet she gets a choice and he doesn't.
nonsense. did she rape him?
The choice to have sex is in most cases mutual. Neither has the upper
hand
in that one, except where nature has given it.
exactly, any pregnancy that results from mutual sex may be terminated
by the pregnant party.
Yup. The pregnant party may terminate her impending role as a parent at any
time and without consequence. The male still doesn't have that choice.
if he is pregnant, he does.
So in other words, you admit that he doesn't but you refuse to put it quite that
way. Thanks for agreeing, at least, I -knew- I could talk some sense into you
if I tried hard enough. ;-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
***********************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is that its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
***********************************************************
I would rather call you darling than defendant in the case.
But lovers left here long ago and clients took their place
***********************************************************
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 07:39:39 PM |
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In article <rmfkm2tfehsvll1v7ljgtn3uv29hnsedkd@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:13:28 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <lgekm2tfea706uhrmn6ehb60ujml40u1mr@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:35:23 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <444km25qtim5l7jhgrv1etfnnn4512t7m5@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:54:44 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
yet she gets a choice and he doesn't.
nonsense. did she rape him?
The choice to have sex is in most cases mutual. Neither has the
upper
hand
in that one, except where nature has given it.
exactly, any pregnancy that results from mutual sex may be terminated
by the pregnant party.
Yup. The pregnant party may terminate her impending role as a
parent at any time and without consequence. The male still
doesn't have that choice.
if he is pregnant, he does.
So in other words, you admit that he doesn't but you refuse to put it quite
that way.
i see your reading skills are as honed as your social ones. *smirk*
.
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| User: "Uncle Clover" |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 07:41:49 PM |
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On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:39:39 -0500, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <rmfkm2tfehsvll1v7ljgtn3uv29hnsedkd@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:13:28 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <lgekm2tfea706uhrmn6ehb60ujml40u1mr@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:35:23 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <444km25qtim5l7jhgrv1etfnnn4512t7m5@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:54:44 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
yet she gets a choice and he doesn't.
nonsense. did she rape him?
The choice to have sex is in most cases mutual. Neither has the
upper
hand
in that one, except where nature has given it.
exactly, any pregnancy that results from mutual sex may be terminated
by the pregnant party.
Yup. The pregnant party may terminate her impending role as a
parent at any time and without consequence. The male still
doesn't have that choice.
if he is pregnant, he does.
So in other words, you admit that he doesn't but you refuse to put it quite
that way.
i see your reading skills are as honed as your social ones. *smirk*
If you say so. *smirk*
;-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
***********************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is that its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
***********************************************************
I would rather call you darling than defendant in the case.
But lovers left here long ago and clients took their place
***********************************************************
.
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| User: "Robert" |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
27 Nov 2006 10:58:50 AM |
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On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:07:53 -0500, Uncle Clover
<UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
exactly, any pregnancy that results from mutual sex may be terminated
by the pregnant party.
Yup. The pregnant party may terminate her impending role as a parent at any
time and without consequence. The male still doesn't have that choice.
But if men could get pregnant, there would be no controversy
regarding abortion. It would be freely available, at no cost to the
pregnant. And contraceptives would be readily available.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "Uncle Clover" |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
27 Nov 2006 05:23:08 PM |
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On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:58:50 -0800, Robert <robpar@netportusa.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:07:53 -0500, Uncle Clover
<UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
exactly, any pregnancy that results from mutual sex may be terminated
by the pregnant party.
Yup. The pregnant party may terminate her impending role as a parent at any
time and without consequence. The male still doesn't have that choice.
But if men could get pregnant, there would be no controversy
regarding abortion. It would be freely available, at no cost to the
pregnant. And contraceptives would be readily available.
I agree completely, and think that would be a condition worth shooting for. I
in no way fault anyone for the inequality which I perceive in the parenthood
situation - women have more choices than men, but neither the women nor the men
are to "blame" for this. It's just the way it is, and the way it has to be -
unless and until we can find another alternative.
I said it somewhere awhile back in this thread, but I will repeat my stance: If
and when the time comes that an embryo/foetus can be transplanted from the
mother into the father, and the woman is required to surrender it in the event
that she doesn't want it but he does, -then- the two positions will be
functionally equal.
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
***********************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is that its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
***********************************************************
I would rather call you darling than defendant in the case.
But lovers left here long ago and clients took their place
***********************************************************
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 05:38:56 PM |
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james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <bgqjm2l23b41onin5cotrdfkp1uje0aqkk@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:38:07 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <danjm2h8sago7pakg8kvk20i6i4elr5l12@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:22:31 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is
doing, I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
Silly, silly man. They're not equal, but it's not really anything
society's doing that's causing this inequality. The woman can
terminate the pregnancy because it's her body - that is as it
should be. But the man doesn't have the same freedom of choice as
to whether or not he's ready, willing or able to become a parent.
of course he does!!! no one forced him to impregnate the woman, did
they?
Nor did they force her to get impregnated.
so you're claiming she got pregnant by herself?
So the playing field is levelled in that regard.
no, it is not.
Are you claiming that she got pregnant without her involvement?
Once the pregnancy has taken hold, the woman has the freedom to
make choices with regard to her status as a parent that the man
does not.
you responded without reading what i said next: "the distinction is
that the man can prevent the pregnancy from happening.
So can the woman.
The woman can
terminate the pregnancy.
The man cannot.
sounds fair to me."
You anti-choicers always thinks it's "fair" that people do as you say.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 06:08:25 PM |
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In article <456a2590$0$34510$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <bgqjm2l23b41onin5cotrdfkp1uje0aqkk@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
you responded without reading what i said next: "the distinction is
that the man can prevent the pregnancy from happening.
So can the woman.
The woman can
terminate the pregnancy.
The man cannot.
sounds fair to me."
You anti-choicers always thinks it's "fair" that people do as you say.
i knew you'd start lying, although i hoped you would not.
something muriel once said comes to mind when i see people like ray
fischer argue the right of the fetus.
"You have confirmed my suspicion that those who argue the rights of
the fetus view the woman as a container." Muriel Nelson
<1992Jun22.123409.5...@hemlock‚.cray.com>
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 06:15:44 PM |
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james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
you responded without reading what i said next: "the distinction is
that the man can prevent the pregnancy from happening.
So can the woman.
The woman can
terminate the pregnancy.
The man cannot.
sounds fair to me."
You anti-choicers always thinks it's "fair" that people do as you say.
i knew you'd start lying, although i hoped you would not.
Smirk. You really have been taking lessons from Heishman.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 07:16:17 PM |
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In article <456a2e30$0$34529$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
you responded without reading what i said next: "the distinction is
that the man can prevent the pregnancy from happening.
So can the woman.
The woman can
terminate the pregnancy.
The man cannot.
sounds fair to me."
You anti-choicers always thinks it's "fair" that people do as you say.
i knew you'd start lying, although i hoped you would not.
i restored the text you deleted since you called heishman a coward
earlier today for doing that to one of your posts.
=====begin text restore
something muriel once said comes to mind when i see people like ray
fischer argue the right of the fetus.
"You have confirmed my suspicion that those who argue the rights of
the fetus view the woman as a container." Muriel Nelson
<1992Jun22.123409.5...@hemlock‚.cray.com>
===end text restore
Smirk. You really have been taking lessons from Heishman.
projecting becomes you, but it also made you look like a dishonest
fool.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 12:09:38 PM |
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james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is doing, I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that does give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 12:21:12 PM |
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In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is doing, I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that does give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 12:37:25 PM |
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james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is doing, I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that does give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 12:43:03 PM |
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In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 12:59:13 PM |
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james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Moving the goalposts: obvious tactic of the desperate.
Men do not choose to give birth to children, thus they are made
responsible for choices thet they do not make.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 01:50:04 PM |
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In article <4569e401$0$34562$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is
doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that
does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Moving the goalposts: obvious tactic of the desperate.
then don't do it. one would have thought you might have learned your
lesson when you lost this debate more than a decade ago.
Men do not choose to give birth to children, thus they are made
responsible for choices thet they do not make.
now you're claiming that women impregnate themselves.
really; isn't that a bit much, even for you.
why don't you make the argument you want to make about the inequities
in the child support process.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 05:36:45 PM |
|
|
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569e401$0$34562$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is
doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that
does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Moving the goalposts: obvious tactic of the desperate.
then don't do it.
"I know you are but what am I?"
You've been taking lessons from Heishman.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 06:22:51 PM |
|
|
In article <456a250d$0$34510$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569e401$0$34562$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article
<1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is
doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that
does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility,
moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Moving the goalposts: obvious tactic of the desperate.
then don't do it.
"I know you are but what am I?"
you know what you are: a dishonest hypocrite.
i restored the text you deleted below since you called heishman a
coward earlier today for doing exactly that to one of your posts.
====begin text restore
Men do not choose to give birth to children, thus they are made
responsible for choices thet they do not make.
now you're claiming that women impregnate themselves.
really; isn't that a bit much, even for you.
why don't you make the argument you want to make about the inequities
in the child support process.
====end text restore
You've been taking lessons from Heishman.
projecting becomes you, but it also made you look like a dishonest
fool.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 07:40:01 PM |
|
|
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <456a250d$0$34510$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569e401$0$34562$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article
<1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is
doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that
does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility,
moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Moving the goalposts: obvious tactic of the desperate.
then don't do it.
"I know you are but what am I?"
you know what you are: a dishonest hypocrite.
Are you a heishman sockpuppet?
i restored the text you deleted below since you called heishman a
coward earlier today for doing exactly that to one of your posts.
And, like Heishman, you resort to lying outright.
====begin text restore
Men do not choose to give birth to children, thus they are made
responsible for choices thet they do not make.
now you're claiming that women impregnate themselves.
And, like heishman, you lie about what I wrote.
Typical anti-choice *****.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 07:57:00 PM |
|
|
In article <456a41f1$0$34509$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
Typical anti-choice *****.
i see you still describe yourself accurately
"What I proposed would allow a woman to end
her pregnancy at any time for any reason,
but would place restrictions on the methods."
<rayCJBvtr....@netcom.com>
"Any method that allows saving the life of the fetus without
placing the mother at significant additional risk."
<rayCJE1K1....@netcom.com>
"Ray, why do you figure it's a good thing to lie on
the net? Lots of people read here. It makes you look bad."
--Adrienne Regard <reg...@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com>
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 10:08:43 PM |
|
|
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Typical anti-choice *****.
i see you still describe yourself accurately
"I know you are but what am I?"
Grow up, pro-liar.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
27 Nov 2006 08:53:56 PM |
|
|
In article <456a64cb$0$34501$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
Typical anti-choice *****.
i see you still describe yourself accurately
"I know you are but what am I?"
Grow up, pro-liar.
you continue to describe yourself accurately.
"Ray, why do you figure it's a good thing to lie on
the net? Lots of people read here. It makes you look bad."
--Adrienne Regard <reg...@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com>
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
27 Nov 2006 11:03:50 PM |
|
|
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Typical anti-choice *****.
i see you still describe yourself accurately
"I know you are but what am I?"
Grow up, pro-liar.
you continue to describe yourself accurately.
LOL! You really are a pathetic little turd. The debating ability of
a 6th grader.
Shall I dredge up my file of quotes again?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
28 Nov 2006 08:17:11 AM |
|
|
In article <456bc336$0$34558$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
Typical anti-choice *****.
i see you still describe yourself accurately
"I know you are but what am I?"
Grow up, pro-liar.
you continue to describe yourself accurately.
i restored the text you deleted below. that's something you called
osprey a coward for doing to you a few days ago.
---begin restore text
"Ray, why do you figure it's a good thing to lie on
the net? Lots of people read here. It makes you look bad."
--Adrienne Regard <reg...@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com>
----end restore text
LOL! You really are a pathetic little turd. The debating ability of
a 6th grader.
[nora peal to liar ray]
"You know, your seemingly obsessive hatred of keegan
is rather pathetic. Is this what has caused you to
become t.a.'s most dishonest poster?"
<34cp1c$...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
01 Dec 2006 06:05:53 PM |
|
|
In article <4569e401$0$34562$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is
doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that
does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Moving the goalposts: obvious tactic of the desperate.
why do you pro-liars always resort to such dishonesties?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 07:46:13 PM |
|
|
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article <1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Routinely, no. Regularly, yes.
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 07:54:05 PM |
|
|
In article <1164591973.312484.245680@14g2000cws.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article
<1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is
doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that
does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Routinely, no. Regularly, yes.
can you cite some credible sources to validate that.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
26 Nov 2006 09:54:01 PM |
|
|
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
In article <1164591973.312484.245680@14g2000cws.googlegroups.com>,
firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article
<1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia is
doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there that
does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility, moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Routinely, no. Regularly, yes.
can you cite some credible sources to validate that.
If you consider studies by men's rights groups and
statistics collected by activists on the subject as
credible, yes - If not, no. I realize that men's rights
groups have a bias, but I think they've got a point in
their position that no one else is interested in
recognizing the problem - it's a part of the strong
anti-male bias they see throughout the US court
system, especially in family courts and divorce courts.
http://www.man4justice.com/ mentions a
statistic that in 30% of cases where paternity
is tested, the man who was told he was the
father wasn't. This is often after they've
already been supporting what they thought
was their child, for years in some cases.
http://www.nas.com/c4m/, site for the National
Center for Men's Voluntary Fatherhood Project,
has some information on the subject, especially
bits on cases where women performed rapes
and successfully got court-ordered child support.
I think the most interesting bit I've read was how
some US jurisdictions allow a woman to prove
paternity by posting a paternity announcement in
a local newspaper, and the court will take no
response to the announcement as acceptance of
paternity, case closed, no further evidence
accepted - even if the man named in the
announcement as the father has never been to
that locality, has never heard of that local paper,
and has no idea his name appeared in it.
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
27 Nov 2006 08:59:46 PM |
|
|
In article <1164599641.935849.141630@l39g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
In article <1164591973.312484.245680@14g2000cws.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
In article <4569dee5$0$34495$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <4569d861$0$34500$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <8uejm29u6eitluipoqor9mfud8km635mq3@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:30:19 -0500, "james g. keegan jr."
<jgkeegan@gmail.com>
wrote:
In article
<1164459845.734180.190030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am not going to say that I agree with what Russia
is
doing,
I
will say that there needs to be something put out there
that
does
give
men and women equal priviledges and rights in regards to
not
wanting
the responsibility of having a child.
both males and females already have equal responsibility,
moron.
Yes, but not equal priveleges & rights.
of course they are equal.
the pregnant person can decide whether or not to give birth. what
could be more equal?
The person who gives birth being responsible for that choice.
can you specify a case there that is not so?
Of course. Men are made to be responsible for children that they
don't give birth to. It happens routinely.
on the contrary, men are not routinely made responsible for children
they did not father.
Routinely, no. Regularly, yes.
can you cite some credible sources to validate that.
If you consider studies by men's rights groups and
statistics collected by activists on the subject as
credible, yes - If not, no. I realize that men's rights
groups have a bias, but I think they've got a point in
their position that no one else is interested in
recognizing the problem - it's a part of the strong
anti-male bias they see throughout the US court
system, especially in family courts and divorce courts.
http://www.man4justice.com/ mentions a
statistic that in 30% of cases where paternity
is tested, the man who was told he was the
father wasn't. This is often after they've
already been supporting what they thought
was their child, for years in some cases.
http://www.nas.com/c4m/, site for the National
Center for Men's Voluntary Fatherhood Project,
has some information on the subject, especially
bits on cases where women performed rapes
and successfully got court-ordered child support.
I think the most interesting bit I've read was how
some US jurisdictions allow a woman to prove
paternity by posting a paternity announcement in
a local newspaper, and the court will take no
response to the announcement as acceptance of
paternity, case closed, no further evidence
accepted - even if the man named in the
announcement as the father has never been to
that locality, has never heard of that local paper,
and has no idea his name appeared in it.
i think the studies made by the men's right groups are not credible,
by default.
I believe there are a number of mistakes made by the system; some of
them reflecting unfavorable rulings against the male.
i believe too that for every case where such an unfavorable ruling
has been made against a male, there are 95 times that number of
single mothers receiving no support from the child's father.
the thing i was struggling to avoid was turning an abortion rights
based discussion into a child support one. both are difficult and
emotional issues. both are issues with which i have long and personal
involvement.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: How about a bill that allows men to walk away? |
27 Nov 2006 11:05:35 PM |
|
|
james g. keegan jr. <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
i think the studies made by the men's right groups are not credible,
by default.
A classic anti-choice "argument".
I believe there are a number of mistakes made by the system; some of
them reflecting unfavorable rulings against the male.
i believe too that for every case where such an unfavorable ruling
has been made against a male, there are 95 times that number of
single mothers receiving no support from the child's father.
Why should a single mother recieve any money for a choice that she
alone made and an action which was only hers?
the thing i was struggling to avoid was turning an abortion rights
based discussion into a child support one.
Because it shows everybody that you're not pro-choice at all. You're
just a pro-woman suckup.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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