| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Ray Fischer" |
| Date: |
30 Sep 2006 01:26:25 AM |
| Object: |
Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
http://www.mercurynews.com:80/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15637449.htm?source=rss
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
30 Sep 2006 11:54:49 PM |
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In News 1159678078.279590.33100@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,, osprey at
noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Malcolm <regniztar@btinternet.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's
success in restricting access to abortion, an increasingly
vocal group of Christian conservatives is arguing that it's
time to mount a concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from
around the nation to condemn artificial birth control.
Experts at the gathering assailed contraception on the
grounds that it devalues children, harms relationships
between men and women, promotes sexual promiscuity and
leads to falling birth rates, among social ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Then I suggest that you find a magnifying glass and a pair of
tweezers and a sharp knife and remove your genitals.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which
there is reliable contraception.
Humans are not adapted for abstinence. It is unnatural.
BUT: It's 100% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy.
Is is not. It fails quite often.
Wrong, abstinence, when used..CAN'T FAIL
Of course it can fail. It fails quite often because it is unnatural.
People vow abstinence and then have sex anyway.
Yea, WHEN THEY ARE READY TO HAVE SEX.
Who determines when someone is ready to have sex?
There are people who vow abstinence and WAIT. And it DOESN'T FAIL.
Not a very high percentage though. That is why contraception is a good
thing.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 12:12:13 AM |
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Andrealphus wrote:
In News 1159678078.279590.33100@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,, osprey at
noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Malcolm <regniztar@btinternet.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's
success in restricting access to abortion, an increasingly
vocal group of Christian conservatives is arguing that it's
time to mount a concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from
around the nation to condemn artificial birth control.
Experts at the gathering assailed contraception on the
grounds that it devalues children, harms relationships
between men and women, promotes sexual promiscuity and
leads to falling birth rates, among social ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Then I suggest that you find a magnifying glass and a pair of
tweezers and a sharp knife and remove your genitals.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which
there is reliable contraception.
Humans are not adapted for abstinence. It is unnatural.
BUT: It's 100% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy.
Is is not. It fails quite often.
Wrong, abstinence, when used..CAN'T FAIL
Of course it can fail. It fails quite often because it is unnatural.
People vow abstinence and then have sex anyway.
Yea, WHEN THEY ARE READY TO HAVE SEX.
Who determines when someone is ready to have sex?
THEY will decide.
There are people who vow abstinence and WAIT. And it DOESN'T FAIL.
Not a very high percentage though. That is why contraception is a good
thing.
I never said it wasn't.
.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 12:17:11 AM |
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In News 1159679533.577050.43830@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com,, osprey at
noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Andrealphus wrote:
In News 1159678078.279590.33100@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,, osprey
at noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Malcolm <regniztar@btinternet.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's
success in restricting access to abortion, an increasingly
vocal group of Christian conservatives is arguing that
it's time to mount a concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at
an unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from
around the nation to condemn artificial birth control.
Experts at the gathering assailed contraception on the
grounds that it devalues children, harms relationships
between men and women, promotes sexual promiscuity and
leads to falling birth rates, among social ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Then I suggest that you find a magnifying glass and a pair of
tweezers and a sharp knife and remove your genitals.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which
there is reliable contraception.
Humans are not adapted for abstinence. It is unnatural.
BUT: It's 100% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy.
Is is not. It fails quite often.
Wrong, abstinence, when used..CAN'T FAIL
Of course it can fail. It fails quite often because it is
unnatural. People vow abstinence and then have sex anyway.
Yea, WHEN THEY ARE READY TO HAVE SEX.
Who determines when someone is ready to have sex?
THEY will decide.
So... Abstinance works until they no longer abstain... Isn't that what
we've been saying?
There are people who vow abstinence and WAIT. And it DOESN'T FAIL.
Not a very high percentage though. That is why contraception is a
good thing.
I never said it wasn't.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 12:21:43 AM |
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Andrealphus wrote:
In News 1159679533.577050.43830@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com,, osprey at
noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Andrealphus wrote:
In News 1159678078.279590.33100@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,, osprey
at noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Malcolm <regniztar@btinternet.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's
success in restricting access to abortion, an increasingly
vocal group of Christian conservatives is arguing that
it's time to mount a concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at
an unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from
around the nation to condemn artificial birth control.
Experts at the gathering assailed contraception on the
grounds that it devalues children, harms relationships
between men and women, promotes sexual promiscuity and
leads to falling birth rates, among social ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Then I suggest that you find a magnifying glass and a pair of
tweezers and a sharp knife and remove your genitals.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which
there is reliable contraception.
Humans are not adapted for abstinence. It is unnatural.
BUT: It's 100% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy.
Is is not. It fails quite often.
Wrong, abstinence, when used..CAN'T FAIL
Of course it can fail. It fails quite often because it is
unnatural. People vow abstinence and then have sex anyway.
Yea, WHEN THEY ARE READY TO HAVE SEX.
Who determines when someone is ready to have sex?
THEY will decide.
So... Abstinance works until they no longer abstain... Isn't that what
we've been saying?
No, not like that you haven't.
Of course it isn't going to work when it's not being practiced. And I
never said it did work like that.
There are people who vow abstinence and WAIT. And it DOESN'T FAIL.
Not a very high percentage though. That is why contraception is a
good thing.
I never said it wasn't.
Silence noted
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 12:30:14 AM |
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In News 1159680103.539326.287320@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com,, osprey at
noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Andrealphus wrote:
In News 1159679533.577050.43830@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com,,
osprey at noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Andrealphus wrote:
In News 1159678078.279590.33100@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,,
osprey at noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Malcolm <regniztar@btinternet.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's
success in restricting access to abortion, an
increasingly vocal group of Christian conservatives is
arguing that it's time to mount a concerted attack on
contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at
an unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people
from around the nation to condemn artificial birth
control. Experts at the gathering assailed
contraception on the grounds that it devalues children,
harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates,
among social ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Then I suggest that you find a magnifying glass and a pair of
tweezers and a sharp knife and remove your genitals.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which
there is reliable contraception.
Humans are not adapted for abstinence. It is unnatural.
BUT: It's 100% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy.
Is is not. It fails quite often.
Wrong, abstinence, when used..CAN'T FAIL
Of course it can fail. It fails quite often because it is
unnatural. People vow abstinence and then have sex anyway.
Yea, WHEN THEY ARE READY TO HAVE SEX.
Who determines when someone is ready to have sex?
THEY will decide.
So... Abstinance works until they no longer abstain... Isn't that
what we've been saying?
No, not like that you haven't.
Of course it isn't going to work when it's not being practiced. And I
never said it did work like that.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference. Someone that
practices abstaining that fails to abstain has failed to abstain. Quid Pro
Quo. That is why abstainance has not been particularly successful.
Getting back to the topic of the thread, there are people that do wish to
ban contraceptives and teach only abstinance. This is, of course, doomed to
fail.
There are people who vow abstinence and WAIT. And it DOESN'T
FAIL.
Not a very high percentage though. That is why contraception is a
good thing.
I never said it wasn't.
Silence noted
I didn't see any reason to agree with your agreement that contraception is a
good thing.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
02 Oct 2006 07:46:24 PM |
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In article <1159680103.539326.287320@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Andrealphus wrote:
In News 1159679533.577050.43830@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com,, osprey at
noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Andrealphus wrote:
In News 1159678078.279590.33100@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,, osprey
at noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Malcolm <regniztar@btinternet.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's
success in restricting access to abortion, an increasingly
vocal group of Christian conservatives is arguing that
it's time to mount a concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at
an unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from
around the nation to condemn artificial birth control.
Experts at the gathering assailed contraception on the
grounds that it devalues children, harms relationships
between men and women, promotes sexual promiscuity and
leads to falling birth rates, among social ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Then I suggest that you find a magnifying glass and a pair of
tweezers and a sharp knife and remove your genitals.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which
there is reliable contraception.
Humans are not adapted for abstinence. It is unnatural.
BUT: It's 100% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy.
Is is not. It fails quite often.
Wrong, abstinence, when used..CAN'T FAIL
Of course it can fail. It fails quite often because it is
unnatural. People vow abstinence and then have sex anyway.
Yea, WHEN THEY ARE READY TO HAVE SEX.
Who determines when someone is ready to have sex?
THEY will decide.
So... Abstinance works until they no longer abstain... Isn't that what
we've been saying?
No, not like that you haven't.
Of course it isn't going to work when it's not being practiced. And I
never said it did work like that.
Maybe you should have tried it. Then you wouldn't have that
"unplanned" kid.
.
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| User: "Strife767" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 11:14:16 AM |
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On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 00:54:49 -0400, Andrealphus
<NOREALEMAIL13@THISADDRESS.FOAD> wrote:
In News 1159678078.279590.33100@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,, osprey at
noneedtoknow@mail.com, typed this:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Malcolm <regniztar@btinternet.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's
success in restricting access to abortion, an increasingly
vocal group of Christian conservatives is arguing that it's
time to mount a concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from
around the nation to condemn artificial birth control.
Experts at the gathering assailed contraception on the
grounds that it devalues children, harms relationships
between men and women, promotes sexual promiscuity and
leads to falling birth rates, among social ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Then I suggest that you find a magnifying glass and a pair of
tweezers and a sharp knife and remove your genitals.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which
there is reliable contraception.
Humans are not adapted for abstinence. It is unnatural.
BUT: It's 100% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy.
Is is not. It fails quite often.
Wrong, abstinence, when used..CAN'T FAIL
Of course it can fail. It fails quite often because it is unnatural.
People vow abstinence and then have sex anyway.
Yea, WHEN THEY ARE READY TO HAVE SEX.
Who determines when someone is ready to have sex?
Kids have it tough because they have people telling them constantly not to
***** around when they're younger, but there are _many_ years between
puberty and the day they get married, if they ever do, and the biological
'telling you what to do' signal is nearly always stronger, so kids will
***** around anyway.
There are people who vow abstinence and WAIT. And it DOESN'T FAIL.
Not a very high percentage though. That is why contraception is a good
thing.
Yup. Not only will most kids not take a vow of abstinence, but most of
them who _do_ end up having fucked someone by that time next year.
Abstinence works in theory, but not in practice. Humans are not meant to
not have sex for an indeterminate amount of time up to an arbitrary cutoff
point (marriage) that human biology has no awareness of. When someone hits
puberty, the body screams "I want to *****" constantly, and only maybe a
couple % of the really strong-willed kids (unspurprisingly, very few of
these in the crowd that is taught "ABSTINENCE ONLY") ever successfully
abstain to marriage.
Also, down the road, most of _that_ small percentage realize what a crock
of ***** it all is, and start enjoying sex anyway.
--
____________ _____________ __________________
__ ___/_ /__________(_)__ __/____/__ /_ ___/__ /
_____ \_ __/_ ___/_ /__ /_ _ _ \_ /_ __ \__ /
____/ // /_ _ / _ / _ __/ / __/ / / /_/ /_ /
/____/ \__/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___//_/ \____/ /_/
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 12:30:43 AM |
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osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
No other
"man-made" birthcontrol device can claim to be 100% effective.
Death. Castration. Hysterectomy. Oophorectomy.
So you opt to kill someone or mutilate them instead of just practicing
No, you dumbshit *****, I'm just pointing how you're wrogn yet
again. I didn't advocate any of those methods.
You are a liar.
Everybody can see the words still present, *****. The liar is you.
The ***** is you. The urd is you. The immoral, sleazy, coward is
you.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 01:37:57 AM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
No other
"man-made" birthcontrol device can claim to be 100% effective.
Death. Castration. Hysterectomy. Oophorectomy.
So you opt to kill someone or mutilate them instead of just practicing
No, you dumbshit *****, I'm just pointing how you're wrogn yet
again. I didn't advocate any of those methods.
You are a liar.
Everybody can see the words still present, *****. The liar is you.
The ***** is you. The urd is you. The immoral, sleazy, coward is
you.
Bla bla bla...nay nay nay...who cares what you have to say???
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
02 Oct 2006 07:46:24 PM |
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In article <1159684677.249559.134850@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
No other
"man-made" birthcontrol device can claim to be 100% effective.
Death. Castration. Hysterectomy. Oophorectomy.
So you opt to kill someone or mutilate them instead of just practicing
No, you dumbshit *****, I'm just pointing how you're wrogn yet
again. I didn't advocate any of those methods.
You are a liar.
Everybody can see the words still present, *****. The liar is you.
The ***** is you. The urd is you. The immoral, sleazy, coward is
you.
Bla bla bla...nay nay nay...who cares what you have to say???
You, apparently.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 01:47:14 PM |
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osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
No other
"man-made" birthcontrol device can claim to be 100% effective.
Death. Castration. Hysterectomy. Oophorectomy.
So you opt to kill someone or mutilate them instead of just practicing
No, you dumbshit *****, I'm just pointing how you're wrogn yet
again. I didn't advocate any of those methods.
You are a liar.
Everybody can see the words still present, *****. The liar is you.
The ***** is you. The urd is you. The immoral, sleazy, coward is
you.
Bla bla bla...nay nay nay...who cares what you have to say???
Certainly not you because you have no shame, no honor.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Dionisio" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 07:53:57 AM |
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osprey wrote:
Wrong, abstinence, when used..CAN'T FAIL
How can a woman get pregnant whens he is NOT HAVING SEXUAL
INTERCOURSE???
Artificial insemination.
(You asked.)
The one who preaches about killing, and here you are talking about
death and mutilation over a practice that harms NO ONE.
Abstinence kills children. Think of all the pitter-pattering little feet
which abstinence has denied existence.
Think of all the diaper makers that have went out of business due to
lack of clientele. Think of all the baby food manufacturers who've had
to raise prices, because some folks wanted to be stingy with their
reproductive organs.
THINK ABOUT THE UNBORN CHILDREN G*DDAMNIT!!!
(This exercise in satire has been brought to you by... The Gyno Farm,
"(Im)Planting children for fun and the Prophet.")
--
"If Christians want us to believe in a Redeemer, let them act redeemed."
--Voltaire
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| User: "Dionisio" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 07:39:59 AM |
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osprey wrote:
BUT: It's 100% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy. No other
"man-made" birthcontrol device can claim to be 100% effective.
Tube tying notwithstanding...
What would happen if every woman was on the pill and stayed on the
pill?
They'd complain that it hurt their feet.
--
"If Christians want us to believe in a Redeemer, let them act redeemed."
--Voltaire
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| User: "Strife767" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 11:34:38 AM |
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On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 08:39:59 -0400, Dionisio
<moc-rr-thgisniTA@5ellimd.com> wrote:
osprey wrote:
BUT: It's 100% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy. No other
"man-made" birthcontrol device can claim to be 100% effective.
Tube tying notwithstanding...
To be fair, that and vasectomy are not 100%...they're like 99.9%.
*chuckles* Of course, abstinence is like any other method of birth control
in a way. There is the "perfect use" number (which is the best out of all
of them, at a perfect 100%), and there is the "typical use" number (which
allows for things like "human error" etc.), which is the _lowest_ at 10%
(a generous estimate).
From a pure mathematical point of view, I would _much_ rather have kids
taking the 1% risk all the time than attempting to use the 'method' that
has the huge spread between 100% and 10%. It's called "playing it safe."
By comparison, condoms have a rate in the upper 90s when used perfectly,
and mid to upper 80s with typical use. I would rather play it safe--both
of those numbers are pretty good, and don't have the huge swing that
abstinence does, from perfection (100%), which is quite rare, to the
abysmal 10%. Averaging those two numbers gives an effective rate of about
55% (think about it--90% of people who try abstinence _will_ fail at it,
as studies have shown), which is worse than pulling out (and pulling out
is something that most doctors will recommend you to _not_ rely on).
I don't know about you, but 55%? _I_ sure as ***** wouldn't want kids
staking something as important as a possible pregnancy on a fucking COIN
FLIP.
--
____________ _____________ __________________
__ ___/_ /__________(_)__ __/____/__ /_ ___/__ /
_____ \_ __/_ ___/_ /__ /_ _ _ \_ /_ __ \__ /
____/ // /_ _ / _ / _ __/ / __/ / / /_/ /_ /
/____/ \__/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___//_/ \____/ /_/
.
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| User: "--sexkitten--" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
30 Sep 2006 07:52:49 PM |
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Malcolm wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which there is
reliable contraception.
The pill is taking down our culture.
Amongst Catholics who didn't live together before marriage, and who don't
use contraception, the divorce rate is so low that it is effectively zero.
The Catholic divorce rate in the U.S. is 20%. That's quite a way from
"zero". And I'd be very interested in seeing a reliable reporting on
infidelity.
In the general population it is about one in two, and amongst unmarried
couple who live together the break-up rate is hard to measure, but extremely
high.
Contraception means that it is feasible to have period of sexual promiscuity
before marriage. It is perfectly obvious that that will have an impact on
marriage.
Yes, it means you actually know what you're getting before you get into
it. Do you buy your cars sight unseen, without a test-drive?
Furthermore, it means it is possible to delay children within marriage. So
what happens is that some newly-married women work, that drives up the cost
of living, and soon all newly marraied women work. The some women spend five
or six years getting established in their careers, and so of course soon all
women have to spend five or six years getting established in their careers.
Then the children of divorce drive down standards in schools, which means
that children have to spend three years or more at university learning the
basic maths and English they weren't taught at school. So they start adult
life with huge debts, and can't have children, so they use even more
contraceptives.
Finally science itself becomes debased. That's just beginning to happen.
Eventually the rot will feed through to the wider economy. American real
wages have stagnated since the 1960s. There was a bit of a blip a few years
ago due to free trade with China, but the general pattern is that a
lifestyle that took one income in 1960 took two by 1980, and is now in 2006
increasingly unattainable for large numbers of people. However the economy
has reported year on year growth. The answer to this contradiction, mainly,
is that the extra effort is going to pay the costs of contraception.
So far those costs are largely hidden. However, if unchecked, they will
sweep away Western prosperity.
--
--sexkitten--
Sneechres and marital rape convictions:
1126361838.764032.231...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
As I said, the marriage agreement includes reasonable expectation of
sexual exchange. This is why John Bobbitt never did a day of time in
the slam for "marital rape" while his crazy wife ended up in a mental
facility.
"Marital rape" is a crime in all fifty states (since 1993), as is
prostitution. The difference is that no one is ever convicted of it.
She was then shown an article on a convicted marital rapist....
1126754651.184485.72...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
The reason there is only one marital rape
conviction in the entire country right now (from Nebraska no less,
where even consenting wives are considered rape victims) is because the
marriage vow "I promise to love you" doesn't mean "I promise to say I
love you".
She was then shown SEVERAL articles on several marital rape convictions.....
1126802761.173860.316...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
I wouldn't refer to anyone in that article except for the children as
"victims." Maybe to you, everyone is a victim, but a woman who
deliberately marries an abusive man and then lets him in the house is
not a victim.
1126850910.636846.121...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
In case you missed my subtle, unspoken point, it is that many women are
devious, backstabbing succubi; entrapment and false rape charges are
just two of their many sick games.
1126926843.336393.273...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
Rape is still not OK under any
circumstances.
Neither is falsely accusing your husband of raping you, and neither is
marrying a man and then refusing to put out.
1126982127.985900.178...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
SO when you deliberately take your clothes off for a rapist, it goes
against all common sense. A lot of things can be read into the action
by the courts and the rapists. You make yourself into a victim on
purpose.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
04 Oct 2006 12:55:35 PM |
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:52:49 -0700, --sexkitten--
<jumpingbeanazNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Malcolm wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which there is
reliable contraception.
The pill is taking down our culture.
Amongst Catholics who didn't live together before marriage, and who don't
use contraception, the divorce rate is so low that it is effectively zero.
The Catholic divorce rate in the U.S. is 20%. That's quite a way from
"zero". And I'd be very interested in seeing a reliable reporting on
infidelity.
/cue sky high.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Mike" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 03:47:46 AM |
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Malcolm wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
<snip stupid tripe>
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which there is
reliable contraception.
The pill is taking down our culture.
Malcom, will you pause for a second and observe how mind-bogglingly
arrogant it is for you to inform ME and the rest of human kind what
kind of world we are psychologically adapted for and what we are not
psychologically adapted for.
Amongst Catholics who didn't live together before marriage, and who don't
use contraception, the divorce rate is so low that it is effectively zero.
In the general population it is about one in two, and amongst unmarried
couple who live together the break-up rate is hard to measure, but extremely
high.
Contraception means that it is feasible to have period of sexual promiscuity
before marriage.
And you think it is your business to dictate to others what kind of sex
life they may choose to have or not have prior to marriage, if they
choose to marry? It is one thing to express a moral opinion about what
people SHOULD choose. It is quite another thing to agree with people
who want to affect people's choices on this matter by force of LAW.
It is perfectly obvious that that will have an impact on
marriage.
Furthermore, it means it is possible to delay children within marriage.
Whereas it is YOUR business to tell married people when they should
choose to have children or not have children?
So
what happens is that some newly-married women work, that drives up the cost
of living, and soon all newly marraied women work. The some women spend five
or six years getting established in their careers, and so of course soon all
women have to spend five or six years getting established in their careers.
And you think it is your business to tell newly married women whether
they should choose or not choose to work? Perhaps we should make them
stay home in the kitchen where they belong?
Then the children of divorce drive down standards in schools, which means
that children have to spend three years or more at university learning the
basic maths and English they weren't taught at school. So they start adult
life with huge debts, and can't have children, so they use even more
contraceptives.
Finally science itself becomes debased. That's just beginning to happen.
This is too incredibly stupid to bother commenting on.
Eventually the rot will feed through to the wider economy. American real
wages have stagnated since the 1960s. There was a bit of a blip a few years
ago due to free trade with China, but the general pattern is that a
lifestyle that took one income in 1960 took two by 1980, and is now in 2006
increasingly unattainable for large numbers of people. However the economy
has reported year on year growth. The answer to this contradiction, mainly,
is that the extra effort is going to pay the costs of contraception.
Stageringly stupid conclusion.
So far those costs are largely hidden. However, if unchecked, they will
sweep away Western prosperity.
Argument for this?
This may take the cake as the single most arrogant post I have seen an
alt.atheism. So tell me would-be dictator. Who is your personal hero
of history? Hitler? Stalin? Pol Pot? Chairman Mao? They had
dictatorial control over the availability of birth control to their
citizens.
www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~bgy1mm
freeware games to download.
.
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| User: "Lucifer" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
30 Sep 2006 07:20:50 PM |
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Malcolm wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which there is
reliable contraception.
The pill is taking down our culture.
Amongst Catholics who didn't live together before marriage, and who don't
use contraception, the divorce rate is so low that it is effectively zero.
In the general population it is about one in two, and amongst unmarried
couple who live together the break-up rate is hard to measure, but extremely
high.
The highest divorce rates almost always go hand in hand with no sex
before marriage
Breakup of non married relationships is a fact, it hurts, sometimes you
just wanna cry and cry and cry cause it hurts so much, but then, you
take your lows with your highs. Falling in love is one of those highs.
I couldn't pledge to love one woman forever, for I wouldn't know
whether I would change, or whether she would change. When love dies,
love dies. All I could do is pledge to care for, support, and be with
someone for as long as I love them. If that's for life, then it's a
bonus.
Contraception means that it is feasible to have period of sexual promiscuity
before marriage. It is perfectly obvious that that will have an impact on
marriage.
Furthermore, it means it is possible to delay children within marriage. So
what happens is that some newly-married women work, that drives up the cost
of living, and soon all newly marraied women work. The some women spend five
or six years getting established in their careers, and so of course soon all
women have to spend five or six years getting established in their careers.
Then the children of divorce drive down standards in schools, which means
that children have to spend three years or more at university learning the
basic maths and English they weren't taught at school. So they start adult
life with huge debts, and can't have children, so they use even more
contraceptives.
Finally science itself becomes debased. That's just beginning to happen.
Eventually the rot will feed through to the wider economy. American real
wages have stagnated since the 1960s. There was a bit of a blip a few years
ago due to free trade with China, but the general pattern is that a
lifestyle that took one income in 1960 took two by 1980, and is now in 2006
increasingly unattainable for large numbers of people. However the economy
has reported year on year growth. The answer to this contradiction, mainly,
is that the extra effort is going to pay the costs of contraception.
So far those costs are largely hidden. However, if unchecked, they will
sweep away Western prosperity.
--
www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~bgy1mm
freeware games to download.
.
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| User: "Dionisio" |
|
| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 07:35:14 AM |
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Malcolm wrote:
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which there is
reliable contraception.
<chuckle> We're not all that well adapted to a world without
contraception either.
Contraception means that it is feasible to have period of sexual promiscuity
before marriage.
<LOL!> "The condoms made me do it!" Get a clue. It wasn't the condoms
that made it happen, it was the hormones.
Furthermore, it means it is possible to delay children within marriage.
Ah, against the rhythm method too, eh?
So what happens is that some newly-married women work, that drives up the cost
of living
<GUFFAW!!> Work drives up the cost of living?!? Oh, my, God! We need a
law! Work should be illegal!
Stop. PLEASE. My ribs can't take much more!
--
"If Christians want us to believe in a Redeemer, let them act redeemed."
--Voltaire
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| User: "--sexkitten--" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 07:31:03 AM |
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Dionisio wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Humans are not psychologically adapted for a world in which there is
reliable contraception.
<chuckle> We're not all that well adapted to a world without
contraception either.
Contraception means that it is feasible to have period of sexual
promiscuity before marriage.
<LOL!> "The condoms made me do it!" Get a clue. It wasn't the condoms
that made it happen, it was the hormones.
Furthermore, it means it is possible to delay children within marriage.
Ah, against the rhythm method too, eh?
So what happens is that some newly-married women work, that drives up
the cost of living
<GUFFAW!!> Work drives up the cost of living?!? Oh, my, God! We need a
law! Work should be illegal!
Stop. PLEASE. My ribs can't take much more!
Serves you right with what you did to my monitor yesterday. ;)
--
--sexkitten--
Sneechres and marital rape convictions:
1126361838.764032.231...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
As I said, the marriage agreement includes reasonable expectation of
sexual exchange. This is why John Bobbitt never did a day of time in
the slam for "marital rape" while his crazy wife ended up in a mental
facility.
"Marital rape" is a crime in all fifty states (since 1993), as is
prostitution. The difference is that no one is ever convicted of it.
She was then shown an article on a convicted marital rapist....
1126754651.184485.72...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
The reason there is only one marital rape
conviction in the entire country right now (from Nebraska no less,
where even consenting wives are considered rape victims) is because the
marriage vow "I promise to love you" doesn't mean "I promise to say I
love you".
She was then shown SEVERAL articles on several marital rape convictions.....
1126802761.173860.316...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
I wouldn't refer to anyone in that article except for the children as
"victims." Maybe to you, everyone is a victim, but a woman who
deliberately marries an abusive man and then lets him in the house is
not a victim.
1126850910.636846.121...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
In case you missed my subtle, unspoken point, it is that many women are
devious, backstabbing succubi; entrapment and false rape charges are
just two of their many sick games.
1126926843.336393.273...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
Rape is still not OK under any
circumstances.
Neither is falsely accusing your husband of raping you, and neither is
marrying a man and then refusing to put out.
1126982127.985900.178...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
SO when you deliberately take your clothes off for a rapist, it goes
against all common sense. A lot of things can be read into the action
by the courts and the rapists. You make yourself into a victim on
purpose.
.
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| User: "Dionisio" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
01 Oct 2006 08:51:42 AM |
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--sexkitten-- wrote:
Dionisio wrote:
Stop. PLEASE. My ribs can't take much more!
Serves you right with what you did to my monitor yesterday. ;)
Hey! *I* wasn't the one who spewed coffee.
But you might want to set that cup down before reading the thread "Re:
Birth control challenged by US Talicans."
There.
You've been warned.
--
"If Christians want us to believe in a Redeemer, let them act redeemed."
--Voltaire
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
04 Oct 2006 12:54:17 PM |
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:35:11 +0100, "Malcolm" <regniztar@btinternet.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message news
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
I'd absolutely agree with them.
Of course you do, totalitarian coward and fountain of insecurities.
[snip fecal matter]
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
04 Oct 2006 12:51:14 PM |
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On 30 Sep 2006 06:26:25 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote in
alt.atheism
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
San surprise. Their war is controlling sex.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
http://www.mercurynews.com:80/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15637449.htm?source=rss
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Strife767" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
30 Sep 2006 11:00:42 AM |
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 02:26:25 -0400, Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wro=
te:
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the=
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
http://www.mercurynews.com:80/mld/mercurynews/living/health/156374=
49.htm?source=3Drss
Wow, 250 people. :P
What morons. They should be told to let us know when their "values" have=
=
put them _lower_ in abortion, teen pregnancy, STDs etc. than other areas=
=
of the US. Maybe then they'd be paid attention.
-- =
____________ _____________ __________________
__ ___/_ /__________(_)__ __/____/__ /_ ___/__ /
_____ \_ __/_ ___/_ /__ /_ _ _ \_ /_ __ \__ /
____/ // /_ _ / _ / _ __/ / __/ / / /_/ /_ /
/____/ \__/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___//_/ \____/ /_/
.
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| User: "Lucifer" |
|
| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
30 Sep 2006 04:16:27 PM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
Sexual promiscuity (in the form of serial monogamy) strengthens
male-female relations. Jumping into marriage when you hardly know
someone weakens them, just look at the divorce rates of the US bible
belt
http://www.mercurynews.com:80/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15637449.htm?source=rss
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Maureen" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
30 Sep 2006 07:46:20 AM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
http://www.mercurynews.com:80/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15637449.htm?source=rss
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
Tis but another step towards their goals.
Notice that these seem focused upon women.
I suppose that the right to vote , domestic abuse laws and women's property rights are
next?
--
Maureen, living "La Vie Boheme"
To Anarchy
Revolution, Justice, Screaming For Solutions,
Forcing Changes, Risk, And Danger
Making Noise And Making Pleas
To Faggots, Lezzies, Dykes, Cross Dressers Too
To me, to me and you and you and you
Let He Among Us Without Sin
Be The First To Condemn ...
La Vie Boheme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj1Y4o5R80A
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
30 Sep 2006 09:37:44 AM |
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Maureen wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
http://www.mercurynews.com:80/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15637449.htm?source=rss
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
Tis but another step towards their goals.
Notice that these seem focused upon women.
I suppose that the right to vote , domestic abuse laws and women's property rights are
next?
The sky is falling!!!
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
04 Oct 2006 12:52:37 PM |
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|
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:46:20 GMT, Maureen <Maureen@LaVieBoheme.dis-org>
wrote in alt.atheism
Ray Fischer wrote:
CHICAGO - Emboldened by the anti-abortion movement's success in
restricting access to abortion, an increasingly vocal group of
Christian conservatives is arguing that it's time to mount a
concerted attack on contraception.
Their voices were raised in Rosemont, Ill., last week at an
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation to condemn artificial birth control. Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children, harms relationships between men and women, promotes
sexual promiscuity and leads to falling birth rates, among social
ills.
http://www.mercurynews.com:80/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15637449.htm?source=rss
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
Tis but another step towards their goals.
Notice that these seem focused upon women.
Of course.
I suppose that the right to vote , domestic abuse laws and women's property rights are
next?
Domestic abuse laws, iirc, have already been effected in some
areas/states.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Dionisio" |
|
| Title: Re: Birth control challenged by US Talicans |
30 Sep 2006 01:31:17 PM |
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|
Ray Fischer wrote:
Their voices were raised
Among other things, no doubt.
unusual anti-abortion meeting that drew 250 people from around the
nation
Yes, that *is* unusual. A national meeting that can only muster 250?
Experts at the
gathering assailed contraception on the grounds that it devalues
children,
Nonsense! The kiddies whom are born will know -- K-N-O-W -- that there
were deemed to be worth more than the price of a condom, the pill, an IUD...
That's -- ahem -- "valuable" knowledge.
harms relationships between men and women,
And yet not one divorce due to the stress of seeing condoms for sale at
the pharmacy...
promotes sexual promiscuity,
"Go forth and multiply."
<Insert Mathematician joke here>
and leads to falling birth rates, among social ills.
Well, at least they got the reason for the present state of Social
Security right.
"The younger generation isn't fucking enough! Don't they know that Fancy
Feast isn't nutritionally balanced for humans?!?"
--
"If Christians want us to believe in a Redeemer, let them act redeemed."
--Voltaire
.
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