| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"*Nemo*" |
| Date: |
16 Sep 2003 04:44:34 PM |
| Object: |
Biting my tongue |
At work, I sit just beside what I like to call a Deep Fundy. I'm talking
a 6-Day, 4004 B.C. CREATIONIST religious nut. Nice enough guy, I
suppose. Pretty professional when it comes to work, but he does spend a
fair amount of time discussing religion. Of course, I get into my share
of discussions on the subject myself, when time permits. Which brings me
to the subject here.
I make no secret about my attitude toward religion in general and
Christianity in particular. If someone comes into my cube and the
conversation rolls around to religion, science or philosophy, I don't
lower my voice. I speak my mind. I seriously doubt that my neighbor
hears much to his liking during those conversations, but he doesn't
stand up and put in his two cents' worth at those times. Frankly, I find
it a little surprising. But I don't worry about it much.
Today, I heard someone come to his cube and start talking about a show
he saw about evolution, apparently trying to see what sort of reaction
he had to what was said. Well, he started talking about the chances that
evolution could have happened "at random," and the 2nd Law of
Thermodynamics, and all sorts of standard tripe that his ilk will trot
out when evolution is discussed.
I'll tell you, I was sorely tempted to stand up and tell him just how
bloody laughable his statements were. But... I recalled his silence when
I hold forth toward my friends and visitors. So I bit my tongue. After
all, in the grand scheme of things, shooting him down in logical flames
wouldn't have made a bit of difference. I feel pretty sure it wouldn't
have changed his mind. We would have lost maybe 10 minutes of work (as
if that makes any difference), and the implied contract of mutual
silence would have been broken.
Holding back, I learned what sort of things he must go through when I
talk about astronomy or physics or history and so on. I didn't like the
experience, but it was educational in its way. At least I've learned
that I can sit silently and listen when I hear an actual person state
these things as if he really believs them. Apparently, the folks on TV
who say that stuff aren't actors. That's good to know, I suppose...
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
16 Sep 2003 08:12:37 PM |
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:44:34 GMT, *Nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.NOSPMPLS.com>
wrote:
At work, I sit just beside what I like to call a Deep Fundy. I'm talking
a 6-Day, 4004 B.C. CREATIONIST religious nut.
,snip>
Today, I heard someone come to his cube and start talking about a show
he saw about evolution, apparently trying to see what sort of reaction
he had to what was said. Well, he started talking about the chances that
evolution could have happened "at random," and the 2nd Law of
Thermodynamics, and all sorts of standard tripe that his ilk will trot
out when evolution is discussed.
I'll tell you, I was sorely tempted to stand up and tell him just how
bloody laughable his statements were. But... I recalled his silence when
I hold forth toward my friends and visitors. So I bit my tongue.
<snip>
Holding back, I learned what sort of things he must go through when I
talk about astronomy or physics or history and so on. I didn't like the
experience, but it was educational in its way. At least I've learned
that I can sit silently and listen when I hear an actual person state
these things as if he really believs them. Apparently, the folks on TV
who say that stuff aren't actors. That's good to know, I suppose...
Admirable restraint Nemo.
I think you were right to resist the urge to engage in battle.
Sometimes not attacking is the best strategy.
Hope your tongue recovers quickley.
8-)
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
17 Sep 2003 08:22:59 AM |
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In article <p2dfmvcvm0njniclj1f3r17tusfpg9tggb@4ax.com>, Mark Richardson says...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:44:34 GMT, *Nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.NOSPMPLS.com>
wrote:
At work, I sit just beside what I like to call a Deep Fundy. I'm talking
a 6-Day, 4004 B.C. CREATIONIST religious nut.
,snip>
Today, I heard someone come to his cube and start talking about a show
he saw about evolution, apparently trying to see what sort of reaction
he had to what was said. Well, he started talking about the chances that
evolution could have happened "at random," and the 2nd Law of
Thermodynamics, and all sorts of standard tripe that his ilk will trot
out when evolution is discussed.
I'll tell you, I was sorely tempted to stand up and tell him just how
bloody laughable his statements were. But... I recalled his silence when
I hold forth toward my friends and visitors. So I bit my tongue.
<snip>
Holding back, I learned what sort of things he must go through when I
talk about astronomy or physics or history and so on. I didn't like the
experience, but it was educational in its way. At least I've learned
that I can sit silently and listen when I hear an actual person state
these things as if he really believs them. Apparently, the folks on TV
who say that stuff aren't actors. That's good to know, I suppose...
Admirable restraint Nemo.
I think you were right to resist the urge to engage in battle.
Sometimes not attacking is the best strategy.
Isn't that the truth. I overreacted to an email from my SILs the other day and
am in deep doodoo with the family. It was that one that says since 89% of
Americans are christian we should tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up.
Hope your tongue recovers quickley.
<chuckle> I sincerely wish I had the same problem. At least I won't have to
worry about being dragged to any family parties anytime soon ;)
8-)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Wolf333" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
18 Sep 2003 04:56:42 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:TeZ9b.20587$cJ5.2633@www.newsranger.com...
In article <p2dfmvcvm0njniclj1f3r17tusfpg9tggb@4ax.com>, Mark Richardson
says...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:44:34 GMT, *Nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.NOSPMPLS.com>
wrote:
At work, I sit just beside what I like to call a Deep Fundy. I'm talking
a 6-Day, 4004 B.C. CREATIONIST religious nut.
,snip>
Today, I heard someone come to his cube and start talking about a show
he saw about evolution, apparently trying to see what sort of reaction
he had to what was said. Well, he started talking about the chances that
evolution could have happened "at random," and the 2nd Law of
Thermodynamics, and all sorts of standard tripe that his ilk will trot
out when evolution is discussed.
I'll tell you, I was sorely tempted to stand up and tell him just how
bloody laughable his statements were. But... I recalled his silence when
I hold forth toward my friends and visitors. So I bit my tongue.
<snip>
Holding back, I learned what sort of things he must go through when I
talk about astronomy or physics or history and so on. I didn't like the
experience, but it was educational in its way. At least I've learned
that I can sit silently and listen when I hear an actual person state
these things as if he really believs them. Apparently, the folks on TV
who say that stuff aren't actors. That's good to know, I suppose...
Admirable restraint Nemo.
I think you were right to resist the urge to engage in battle.
Sometimes not attacking is the best strategy.
Isn't that the truth. I overreacted to an email from my SILs the other
day and
am in deep doodoo with the family. It was that one that says since 89% of
Americans are christian we should tell the other 14% to sit down and shut
up.
That's what I like about America... always giving 103%
--
__________
"blood-red canal birds particular traffic climb" - anonymous, oddly Zen-like
spammer
Michael Wolfe
aa #1912
__________
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
18 Sep 2003 08:02:50 AM |
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In article <vmj0ap3q0akt13@corp.supernews.com>, Wolf333 says...
"Robibnikoff" <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
snippage
Isn't that the truth. I overreacted to an email from my SILs the other
day and
am in deep doodoo with the family. It was that one that says since 89% of
Americans are christian we should tell the other 14% to sit down and shut
up.
That's what I like about America... always giving 103%
LOL!! Why, you're right! Dang, I wish I'd noticed that when I first got the
email. I could have shoved that in their faces too ;)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
17 Sep 2003 09:50:12 AM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
Isn't that the truth. I overreacted to an email from my SILs the other day and
am in deep doodoo with the family. It was that one that says since 89% of
Americans are christian we should tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up.
A college friend of mine made a similar claim. I said that since 85% of the county's
population was white, everyone else should just shut up and stay at the back of the
bus. He, being black, got my point immediately.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
Is your faith so weak and your god so powerless
that, without government endorsement of your
religion, all hell will break loose?
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
17 Sep 2003 10:41:21 AM |
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In article <3F6874A4.24E9A8CB@serv.net>, Gregory Gadow says...
Robibnikoff wrote:
Isn't that the truth. I overreacted to an email from my SILs the other day and
am in deep doodoo with the family. It was that one that says since 89% of
Americans are christian we should tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up.
A college friend of mine made a similar claim. I said that since 85% of the county's
population was white, everyone else should just shut up and stay at the back of the
bus. He, being black, got my point immediately.
I sort of tried that tactic, saying, "How would you feel if the 89% was Moslem
and you were the 14% being told to shut up?" They didn't get it. They
basically feel that I have no right to comment on anything of a religious nature
because I don't believe in a religion - despite the fact that I know more about
their own religion and have studied several others. They also can't comprehend
why I would learn about other religions either; they prefer to wallow in their
ignorance apparently. I tried to explain repeatedly that this email was a slam
to people such as myself (non-believers) and was pretty much told that I should
have such deleted the, and I quote, "BEAUTIFUL" email and get over it.
Somehow I don't think the witchling will be getting any pledges for her
walkathon next week from her aunts <sigh>
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Dave W" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
17 Sep 2003 11:31:45 AM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in
news:Bg%9b.20622$cJ5.2734@www.newsranger.com:
In article <3F6874A4.24E9A8CB@serv.net>, Gregory Gadow says...
Robibnikoff wrote:
Isn't that the truth. I overreacted to an email from my SILs the
other day and am in deep doodoo with the family. It was that one
that says since 89% of Americans are christian we should tell the
other 14% to sit down and shut up.
A college friend of mine made a similar claim. I said that since 85%
of the county's population was white, everyone else should just shut
up and stay at the back of the bus. He, being black, got my point
immediately.
I sort of tried that tactic, saying, "How would you feel if the 89%
was Moslem and you were the 14% being told to shut up?" They didn't
get it. They basically feel that I have no right to comment on
anything of a religious nature because I don't believe in a religion -
despite the fact that I know more about their own religion and have
studied several others. They also can't comprehend why I would learn
about other religions either; they prefer to wallow in their ignorance
apparently. I tried to explain repeatedly that this email was a slam
to people such as myself (non-believers) and was pretty much told that
I should have such deleted the, and I quote, "BEAUTIFUL" email and get
over it.
Somehow I don't think the witchling will be getting any pledges for
her walkathon next week from her aunts <sigh>
You didn't overreact. I a person that almost never raises my voice in
anger. If I had gotten the same reaction from my family, I probably would
have hollered myself close to an Aneurysm. Leaving a trail of blushing
Sailors in my wake,IYKWIM.
--
Dave W a.a.#1967
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
17 Sep 2003 11:53:19 AM |
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In article <Xns93F960DFCAB8Cinvalidinvalidedu@199.45.49.11>, Dave W says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in
news:Bg%9b.20622$cJ5.2734@www.newsranger.com:
In article <3F6874A4.24E9A8CB@serv.net>, Gregory Gadow says...
Robibnikoff wrote:
Isn't that the truth. I overreacted to an email from my SILs the
other day and am in deep doodoo with the family. It was that one
that says since 89% of Americans are christian we should tell the
other 14% to sit down and shut up.
A college friend of mine made a similar claim. I said that since 85%
of the county's population was white, everyone else should just shut
up and stay at the back of the bus. He, being black, got my point
immediately.
I sort of tried that tactic, saying, "How would you feel if the 89%
was Moslem and you were the 14% being told to shut up?" They didn't
get it. They basically feel that I have no right to comment on
anything of a religious nature because I don't believe in a religion -
despite the fact that I know more about their own religion and have
studied several others. They also can't comprehend why I would learn
about other religions either; they prefer to wallow in their ignorance
apparently. I tried to explain repeatedly that this email was a slam
to people such as myself (non-believers) and was pretty much told that
I should have such deleted the, and I quote, "BEAUTIFUL" email and get
over it.
Somehow I don't think the witchling will be getting any pledges for
her walkathon next week from her aunts <sigh>
You didn't overreact. I a person that almost never raises my voice in
anger. If I had gotten the same reaction from my family, I probably would
have hollered myself close to an Aneurysm. Leaving a trail of blushing
Sailors in my wake,IYKWIM.
LOL, oh dear. Thanks, that makes me feel better ;)
I just wish I could have gotten my point across in such a way that they could
have understood it instead of getting so defensive and thinking what I was
saying was a slam on their religion. And I certainly didn't slam on their
religion, just kept trying to get them to understand that the email was a slam
on my lack of religion. But I'm not supposed to care about that apparently.
At least my husband jumped in and got them to donate money for the witchling's
walkathon next week. However, I sort of no longer feel like working on the xmas
presents I'm painting for them. Oh well, I can always sell them to a local
craftstore ;)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
.
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| User: "Dave W" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
17 Sep 2003 12:20:41 PM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in
news:3k0ab.20633$cJ5.2762@www.newsranger.com:
In article <Xns93F960DFCAB8Cinvalidinvalidedu@199.45.49.11>, Dave W
says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in
news:Bg%9b.20622$cJ5.2734@www.newsranger.com:
In article <3F6874A4.24E9A8CB@serv.net>, Gregory Gadow says...
Robibnikoff wrote:
Isn't that the truth. I overreacted to an email from my SILs the
other day and am in deep doodoo with the family. It was that one
that says since 89% of Americans are christian we should tell the
other 14% to sit down and shut up.
A college friend of mine made a similar claim. I said that since 85%
of the county's population was white, everyone else should just shut
up and stay at the back of the bus. He, being black, got my point
immediately.
I sort of tried that tactic, saying, "How would you feel if the 89%
was Moslem and you were the 14% being told to shut up?" They didn't
get it. They basically feel that I have no right to comment on
anything of a religious nature because I don't believe in a religion
- despite the fact that I know more about their own religion and
have studied several others. They also can't comprehend why I would
learn about other religions either; they prefer to wallow in their
ignorance apparently. I tried to explain repeatedly that this email
was a slam to people such as myself (non-believers) and was pretty
much told that I should have such deleted the, and I quote,
"BEAUTIFUL" email and get over it.
Somehow I don't think the witchling will be getting any pledges for
her walkathon next week from her aunts <sigh>
You didn't overreact. I a person that almost never raises my voice in
anger. If I had gotten the same reaction from my family, I probably
would have hollered myself close to an Aneurysm. Leaving a trail of
blushing Sailors in my wake,IYKWIM.
LOL, oh dear. Thanks, that makes me feel better ;)
I just wish I could have gotten my point across in such a way that
they could have understood it instead of getting so defensive and
thinking what I was saying was a slam on their religion. And I
certainly didn't slam on their religion, just kept trying to get them
to understand that the email was a slam on my lack of religion. But
I'm not supposed to care about that apparently.
That what chaps my butt about the letter. Respecting ones beliefs seems
to be a one way street with some religious folk...
At least my husband jumped in and got them to donate money for the
witchling's walkathon next week. However, I sort of no longer feel
like working on the xmas presents I'm painting for them. Oh well, I
can always sell them to a local craftstore ;)
Just make overtly solstice/Saturnalia themed items.
<eg>
--
Dave W a.a.#1967
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
17 Sep 2003 01:12:56 PM |
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In article <Xns93F9692B136CCinvalidinvalidedu@199.45.49.11>, Dave W says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in
news:3k0ab.20633$cJ5.2762@www.newsranger.com:
In article <Xns93F960DFCAB8Cinvalidinvalidedu@199.45.49.11>, Dave W
says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in
news:Bg%9b.20622$cJ5.2734@www.newsranger.com:
In article <3F6874A4.24E9A8CB@serv.net>, Gregory Gadow says...
Robibnikoff wrote:
Isn't that the truth. I overreacted to an email from my SILs the
other day and am in deep doodoo with the family. It was that one
that says since 89% of Americans are christian we should tell the
other 14% to sit down and shut up.
A college friend of mine made a similar claim. I said that since 85%
of the county's population was white, everyone else should just shut
up and stay at the back of the bus. He, being black, got my point
immediately.
I sort of tried that tactic, saying, "How would you feel if the 89%
was Moslem and you were the 14% being told to shut up?" They didn't
get it. They basically feel that I have no right to comment on
anything of a religious nature because I don't believe in a religion
- despite the fact that I know more about their own religion and
have studied several others. They also can't comprehend why I would
learn about other religions either; they prefer to wallow in their
ignorance apparently. I tried to explain repeatedly that this email
was a slam to people such as myself (non-believers) and was pretty
much told that I should have such deleted the, and I quote,
"BEAUTIFUL" email and get over it.
Somehow I don't think the witchling will be getting any pledges for
her walkathon next week from her aunts <sigh>
You didn't overreact. I a person that almost never raises my voice in
anger. If I had gotten the same reaction from my family, I probably
would have hollered myself close to an Aneurysm. Leaving a trail of
blushing Sailors in my wake,IYKWIM.
LOL, oh dear. Thanks, that makes me feel better ;)
I just wish I could have gotten my point across in such a way that
they could have understood it instead of getting so defensive and
thinking what I was saying was a slam on their religion. And I
certainly didn't slam on their religion, just kept trying to get them
to understand that the email was a slam on my lack of religion. But
I'm not supposed to care about that apparently.
That what chaps my butt about the letter. Respecting ones beliefs seems
to be a one way street with some religious folk...
So I've discovered. I also pointed out things said against non-believers such
as Bush, Sr.'s comment on how atheists shouldn't be considered citizens and the
reply was "We don't care what Bush, Sr. said. Why should you?!?" Oy <rolls
eyes>
At least my husband jumped in and got them to donate money for the
witchling's walkathon next week. However, I sort of no longer feel
like working on the xmas presents I'm painting for them. Oh well, I
can always sell them to a local craftstore ;)
Just make overtly solstice/Saturnalia themed items.
<eg>
<chuckle> Well, what I'm doing is hand-painting and decorating these little
wooden things (comes with a base, top piece and another little piece a thin
metal pole runs through - on this little piece is a spring and a small bell and
when you tap it, it bounces down the pole) and I'm doing half with a snow man
motif and the other with gingerbreadhouse/teddybear one.
Here's an example:
http://www.zimscrafts.com/catalog/productdetail.cfm?ItemNumber=376-48473N
Secular, but not Pagan ;)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Brainfried Sysadmin" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
18 Sep 2003 07:13:44 AM |
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:50:12 -0700, Gregory Gadow wrote:
A college friend of mine made a similar claim. I said that since 85% of
the county's population was white, everyone else should just shut up and
stay at the back of the bus. He, being black, got my point immediately.
--
Oh, hell yeah! I have a good use for this.
I frequently debate a good friend about religion. He's a Christian, I'm a
Bright. He's always talking about the majority; such as Judge Moore
placing that monument.
He made the mistake of betting against me on the removal of the monument
and now owes me ten bucks.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Biting my tongue |
18 Sep 2003 07:50:18 AM |
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In article <pan.2003.09.18.12.16.33.371569@way.com>, Brainfried Sysadmin says...
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:50:12 -0700, Gregory Gadow wrote:
A college friend of mine made a similar claim. I said that since 85% of
the county's population was white, everyone else should just shut up and
stay at the back of the bus. He, being black, got my point immediately.
--
Oh, hell yeah! I have a good use for this.
I frequently debate a good friend about religion. He's a Christian, I'm a
Bright. He's always talking about the majority; such as Judge Moore
placing that monument.
He made the mistake of betting against me on the removal of the monument
and now owes me ten bucks.
Make sure he pays up :)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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