| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Michelle Malkin" |
| Date: |
28 Sep 2006 09:00:11 PM |
| Object: |
Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
29 Sep 2006 12:59:14 AM |
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In article <PO-dnS3sOac14IHYnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Glad to see Woodward get it right.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
29 Sep 2006 08:29:00 AM |
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"johac" <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-6097D7.22591428092006@news.giganews.com...
In article <PO-dnS3sOac14IHYnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Glad to see Woodward get it right.
Finally.
He can kiss his days at this White House goodbye.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
29 Sep 2006 11:58:27 PM |
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In article <7a-dnWy2KoQCgoDYnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Geoff" <geoff@nospam.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-6097D7.22591428092006@news.giganews.com...
In article <PO-dnS3sOac14IHYnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Glad to see Woodward get it right.
Finally.
He can kiss his days at this White House goodbye.
Better that what he was kissing before. Someone better tell old Bob to
watch his back.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
29 Sep 2006 08:12:41 AM |
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On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:59:14 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <PO-dnS3sOac14IHYnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Glad to see Woodward get it right.
This cartoon is right on.
http://www.thejournalnews.com/cartoons/davies/
I believe that the cartoon is changed daily so this is probably valid only for
Sept 29.
Ben
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
29 Sep 2006 11:59:07 PM |
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In article <3r6qh25ubcf088vus3tm7mbaa410v66gqk@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:59:14 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <PO-dnS3sOac14IHYnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Glad to see Woodward get it right.
This cartoon is right on.
http://www.thejournalnews.com/cartoons/davies/
I believe that the cartoon is changed daily so this is probably valid only for
Sept 29.
Heh! Good one!
Ben
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
02 Oct 2006 06:43:05 PM |
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On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:00:11 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in alt.atheism
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq
Tells 60 Minutes About His Book 'State Of Denial'
NEW YORK, Oct. 1, 2006
CBS) President Bush's former chief of staff, Andy Card, said the Bush
presidency will be judged by three things: “Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.” Bob
Woodward, of Watergate fame, has just completed his third book on the
Bush presidency, “State of Denial.”
Woodward spent more than two years, interviewed more than 200 people
including most of the top officials in the administration and came to a
damning conclusion. He tells Mike Wallace that for the last three years
the White house has not been honest with the American public.
"It is the oldest story in the coverage of government: the failure to
tell the truth," Woodward charges.
Asked to explain what he means that the Bush administration has not told
the truth about Iraq, Woodward says, "I think probably the prominent,
most prominent example is the level of violence."
Not just the growing sectarian violence — Sunnis against Shias that gets
reported every day — but attacks on U.S., Iraqi and allied forces.
Woodward says that’s the most important measure of violence in Iraq, and
he unearthed a graph, classified secret, that shows those attacks have
increased dramatically over the last three years.
"Getting to the point now where there are eight, 900 attacks a week," he
says. "That’s more than 100 a day—that is four an hour. Attacking our
forces."
Woodward says the government had kept this trend secret for years before
finally declassifying the graph just three weeks ago. And Woodward
accuses President Bush and the Pentagon of making false claims of
progress in Iraq – claims, contradicted by facts that are being kept
secret.
For example, Woodward says an intelligence report classified secret from
the Joint Chiefs of Staff concluded in large print that "THE SUNNI ARAB
INSURGENCY IS GAINING STRENGTH AND INCREASING CAPACITY, DESPITE
POLITICAL PROGRESS."
And “INSURGENTS RETAIN THE CAPABILITIES TO…INCREASE THE LEVEL OF
VIOLENCE THROUGH NEXT YEAR.”
But just two days later a public defense department report said just the
opposite. “Violent action, will begin to wane in early 2007,” the report
said.
What does Woodward make of that?
"The truth is that the assessment by intelligence experts is that next
year, 2007, is going to get worse and, in public, you have the president
and you have the Pentagon [saying], 'Oh, no, things are going to get
better,'" he tells Wallace. "Now there’s public, and then there’s
private. But what did they do with the private? They stamp it secret. No
one is supposed to know," says Woodward.
"Why is that secret? The insurgents know what they’re doing. They know
the level of violence and how effective they are. Who doesn’t know? The
American public," he adds.
"President Bush says over and over as Iraqi forces stand up, U.S. forces
will stand down. The number of Iraqis in uniform today I understand is
up to 300,000?" Wallace asks.
"They’ve stood up from essentially zero to 300,000. This is the military
and the police," Woodward replies.
"But, U.S. forces are not standing down. The attacks keep coming,"
Wallace remarks.
"They’ve stood up and up and up and we haven’t stood down, and it’s
worse," Woodward replies.
John Negorponte knows it’s worse. He’s the U.S. Director of National
Intelligence, and according to Woodward, Negroponte thinks the U.S.
policy in Iraq is in trouble – that violence is now so widespread that
the U.S. doesn’t even know about much of it; and that the killings will
continue to escalate.
"He was the ambassador there in Iraq and now he sees all the
intelligence," Woodward says. "I report he believes that we’ve always
going almost back to the beginning, miscalculated and underestimated the
nature of the insurgency."
Why?
"There’s this feeling, 'How can a bunch guys running around putting
improvised explosive devices in dead animals and by the side of the road
in cars, cause all this trouble," Woodward says.
Woodward reports that a top general says Defense Secretary Donald
Rumsfeld has so emasculated the joint chiefs that the chairman of the
chiefs has become “the parrot on Rumsfeld’s shoulder.”
And, according to Woodward, another key general, John Abizaid, who’s in
charge of the whole Gulf region, told friends that on Iraq, Rumsfeld has
lost all credibility.
"What does that mean, he doesn’t have any credibility anymore?" Wallace
asks.
"That means that he cannot go public and articulate what the strategy
is. Now, this is so important they decide," Woodward explains. "The
Secretary of State Rice will announce what the strategy is. This is
October of last year." She told Congress the U.S. strategy in Iraq is
"clear, hold and build."
"Rumsfeld sees this and goes ballistic and says, 'Now wait a minute.
That’s not our strategy. We want to get the Iraqis to do these things.'
Well it turns out George Bush and the White House liked this definition
of the strategy so it’s in a presidential speech he’s gonna give the
next month," Woodward tells Wallace. "Rumsfeld sees it. He calls Andy
Card, the White House chief of staff and says 'Take it out. Take it out.
That’s not our strategy. We can’t do that.' Card says it’s the core of
what we’re doing. That’s two and a half years after the invasion of
Iraq. They cannot agree on the definition of the strategy. They cannot
agree on the bumper sticker."
"General John Abizaid, commander of all U.S. forces in the Middle East,
you quote him as saying privately a year ago that the U.S. should start
cutting its troops in Iraq. You report that he told some close Army
friends, quote, 'We’ve gotta get the f out.' And then this past March,
General Abizaid visited Congressman John Murtha on Capitol Hill,"
Wallace says.
"John Murtha is in many ways the soul and the conscience of the
military," Woodward replies. "And he came out and said, 'We need to get
out of Iraq as soon as it’s practical' and that sent a 10,000 volt jolt
through the White House."
"Here’s Mr. Military saying, 'We need to get out,'" Woodward continues.
"And John Abizaid went to see him privately. This is Bush’s and
Rumsfeld’s commander in Iraq," Woodward says.
"And John Abizaid held up his fingers, according to Murtha, and said,
'We’re about a quarter of an inch apart, said, 'We’re that far apart,'"
Woodward says.
"You report that after George W. Bush was reelected, his chief of staff,
Andy Card, tried for months to convince the president to fire Don
Rumsfeld. Why?" Wallace asks.
"To replace him. Because it wasn’t working. Card felt very strongly that
the president needed a whole new national security team," Woodward says.
"You write Laura Bush was worried that Rumsfeld was hurting her husband.
Andy Card told her the president seemed happy with Rumsfeld. And the
first lady replied, quote, 'He’s happy with this but I’m not.' And later
she said, 'I don’t know why he’s not upset,'" Wallace remarks.
"What’s interesting, Andy Card, as White House chief of staff every six
weeks set up a one on one meeting with Laura Bush. Set aside an hour and
a half to talk about what’s going on, what are the president’s
anxieties? Smart meeting," Woodward explains. "And in the course of
these sessions the problem with Rumsfeld came up. And she voiced her
concern about the situation."
But ***** Cheney wanted Rumsfeld to stay. Why?
"Well, Rumsfeld’s his guy," Woodward says. "And Cheney confided to an
aid that if Rumsfeld goes, next they’ll be after Cheney."
Cheney stunned Woodward by revealing that a frequent advisor to the Bush
White House is former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who served
Presidents Nixon and Ford during the Vietnam War.
"He’s back," Woodward says. "In fact, Henry Kissinger is almost like a
member of the family. If he’s in town, he can call up and if the
president’s free, he’ll see him."
Woodward recorded his on-the-record interview with Cheney, and here’s
what the vice president said about Henry Kissinger’s clout: "Of the
outside people that I talk to in this job I probably talk to Henry
Kissinger more than just about anybody else. He just comes by and I
guess at least once a month," Cheney tells Woodward. "I sit down with
him."
Asked whether the president also meets with Kissinger, Cheney told
Woodward, "Yes. Absolutely."
The vice president also acknowledged that President Bush is a big fan of
Kissinger.
"Now, what’s Kissinger’s advice? In Iraq, he declared very simply:
'Victory is the only meaningful exit strategy.' This is so fascinating.
Kissinger’s fighting the Vietnam War again. Because in his view the
problem in Vietnam was we lost our will. That we didn’t stick to it,"
Woodward says.
He says Kissinger is telling the president to stick to it, stay the
course. "It’s right out of the Kissinger playbook," Woodward says.
In his book, published by CBS sister company, Simon & Schuster, Woodward
reports that the first President Bush confided to one of his closest
friends how upset he is that his son invaded Iraq.
"The former President Bush is said to be in agony, anguished, tormented
by the war in Iraq and its aftermath," Wallace says.
"Yes," Woodward replies.
Asked if the former president conveys that message to his son, Woodward
says, "I don’t know the answer to that. He tells it to Brent Scowcroft,
his former national security advisor."
"You paint a picture, Bob, of the president as the cheerleader-in-chief.
Current reality be damned. He’s convinced that he’s gonna succeed in
Iraq, yes?" Wallace asks.
"Yes , that’s correct," Woodward says.
Woodward interviewed President George W. Bush for the first two books
for hours.
"And do you know what? There are people who are gonna say, look Woodward
is savaging President Bush because he wouldn’t see him for this book,"
Wallace remarks.
Woodward says that's not true. "He did not, and I asked. And I made it
very clear to the White House what my questions were, what my
information was. What could he say? That the secret chart is not right?"
Woodward says. "That these things that happened in these meetings didn’t
occur? They’re documented. I talked to the people who were there. Your
producer, Bob Anderson, has listened to the tapes of my interviews with
people to make sure that it’s not just kind of right, but literally
right. This is what occurred."
And Woodward says that no matter what has occurred in Iraq, Mr. Bush
does not welcome any pessimistic assessments from his aides, because
he’s sure that his war has Iraq and America on the right path.
"Late last year he had key Republicans up to the White House to talk
about the war. And said, 'I will not withdraw even if Laura and Barney
are the only ones supporting me.' Barney is his dog," Woodward says. "My
work on this leads to lots of people who spend hours, days with the
president."
"And in most cases they are my best sources. And there is a concern that
we need to face realism. Not being the voice that says, 'Oh no,
everything’s fine,' when it’s not," Woodward adds.
/end
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
03 Oct 2006 01:16:13 AM |
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In article <cm83i2dp3fpdsq08tbv3mkqnesq18ij5hr@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:00:11 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in alt.atheism
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq
Tells 60 Minutes About His Book 'State Of Denial'
NEW YORK, Oct. 1, 2006
CBS) President Bush's former chief of staff, Andy Card, said the Bush
presidency will be judged by three things: “Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.” Bob
Woodward, of Watergate fame, has just completed his third book on the
Bush presidency, “State of Denial.”
Woodward spent more than two years, interviewed more than 200 people
including most of the top officials in the administration and came to a
damning conclusion. He tells Mike Wallace that for the last three years
the White house has not been honest with the American public.
And before that too. I got my copy of the book last Saturday.
Fascinating reading.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
05 Oct 2006 10:12:09 AM |
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On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:16:13 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <cm83i2dp3fpdsq08tbv3mkqnesq18ij5hr@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:00:11 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in alt.atheism
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq
Tells 60 Minutes About His Book 'State Of Denial'
NEW YORK, Oct. 1, 2006
CBS) President Bush's former chief of staff, Andy Card, said the Bush
presidency will be judged by three things: “Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.” Bob
Woodward, of Watergate fame, has just completed his third book on the
Bush presidency, “State of Denial.”
Woodward spent more than two years, interviewed more than 200 people
including most of the top officials in the administration and came to a
damning conclusion. He tells Mike Wallace that for the last three years
the White house has not been honest with the American public.
And before that too. I got my copy of the book last Saturday.
Fascinating reading.
Cool.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
03 Oct 2006 02:11:44 PM |
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johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in
news:jhachmann-ED9BF6.23161302102006@news.giganews.com:
In article <cm83i2dp3fpdsq08tbv3mkqnesq18ij5hr@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:00:11 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in alt.atheism
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq
Tells 60 Minutes About His Book 'State Of Denial'
NEW YORK, Oct. 1, 2006
CBS) President Bush's former chief of staff, Andy Card, said the Bush
presidency will be judged by three things: “Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.” Bob
Woodward, of Watergate fame, has just completed his third book on the
Bush presidency, “State of Denial.”
Woodward spent more than two years, interviewed more than 200 people
including most of the top officials in the administration and came to
a damning conclusion. He tells Mike Wallace that for the last three
years the White house has not been honest with the American public.
And before that too. I got my copy of the book last Saturday.
Fascinating reading.
You do realize that Woodward manages to contradict his own two previous
books, don't you?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Some days the impatience with Iraq just seems artificial — as though
the real argument is about something else entirely." - Dinocrat
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq |
04 Oct 2006 12:05:11 AM |
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In article <Xns9851A428C52D1fstone69@66.150.105.47>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in
news:jhachmann-ED9BF6.23161302102006@news.giganews.com:
In article <cm83i2dp3fpdsq08tbv3mkqnesq18ij5hr@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:00:11 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in alt.atheism
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/28/60minutes/main2047607.shtml
Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq
Tells 60 Minutes About His Book 'State Of Denial'
NEW YORK, Oct. 1, 2006
CBS) President Bush's former chief of staff, Andy Card, said the Bush
presidency will be judged by three things: “Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.” Bob
Woodward, of Watergate fame, has just completed his third book on the
Bush presidency, “State of Denial.”
Woodward spent more than two years, interviewed more than 200 people
including most of the top officials in the administration and came to
a damning conclusion. He tells Mike Wallace that for the last three
years the White house has not been honest with the American public.
And before that too. I got my copy of the book last Saturday.
Fascinating reading.
You do realize that Woodward manages to contradict his own two previous
books, don't you?
Which shows that unlike some others he learns from his mistakes. :-)
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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