| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
| Date: |
01 Dec 2007 09:19:00 AM |
| Object: |
Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
Bob, I must admit I was shocked to find these points coming from you
over the past few years. I think they are really good points, worthy
of discussion. My responses follow "my response:".
1.
Who's the head of the main church of "Christian" and where is it
located?
"Who's the head of the main church of Buddhism and where is it
located?
Who's the head of the main church of Taoism and where is it located?
Who's the head of the main church of Hinduism and where is it located?
Who's the head of the main church of paganism and where is it located?
"Most religions have no central authority and many have no churches.
They are nonetheless religions."
my response: Just like Atheism.
2.
"Note that it takes no gods to be religious. Just a devotion to some
specific ultimate reality (Buddhism doesn't necessarily have any
gods)."
my response: Just like Atheism.
3.
Interesting that there doesn't seem to be records of any early
civilisations
that were secular or atheistic.
"Buddhism does not require belief in any Gods."
and
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion in that it
requires no deity."
my response: You're admitting Atheism can be religious.
4.
"Atheists can be quite moral, and some like Newdow, are quite
religious in their pursuit of atheism. (Atheists can be religious in
a different sense, if one practices a religion without a deity, like
Buddhism or libertarianism.) "
my response: You're admitting Atheism can be religious.
5.
"BSA is NOT a "Christian" organization. It could loosely be called
theist, though it accepts Buddhism as a valid religion for scouting
purposes, and at least one Buddhist on the newsgroups has stated that
Buddhism is atheistic."
my response: Would that be yourself?
6.
My belief in a Creator neither constitutes a religion. Merely a belief.
Better check the definition of religion.
All the definitions of religion I find say it is BOTH belief in AND worship of a superior being.
"Taoism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Zoroasterism, or even animism and
spiritualism. All are religions. None has a superior being."
my response: Just like Atheism.
7. and...my favorite of your quotes...
"Nothing taught in the schools overrides anyone's religious freedom.
You
don't have to believe what science has discovered. You just have to
pass a
test showing you understand what science thinks it has discovered.
You also
probably have to pass a test showing that you know what communism,
socialism,
dictatorship are, but you don't have to believe that any of those are
the
right way to live. You also have to know who the Puritans, the
Quakers, and
various other religious groups in history were, why they were
uimportant
(which sometimes includes knowledge of their beliefs), but you do not
have to
accept those beliefs even though you may be taught about them."
my responses: A> You're admitting the schools are pushing a religious
view (as seen in other of your quotes above) that is contrary to those
hearing the words. B> You admit...point blank...that religion can be
taught in school to students, since they don't have to believe what
they hear...only pass tests on what they are taught.
Thank you for the education, Bob.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
01 Dec 2007 02:40:37 PM |
|
|
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com>
bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to attend
weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals).
Atheists do not believe in your god or any others.
Atheists do not believe the claims of the religious due to lack of evidence
supporting those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes with our
normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a dishonest and
slanderous attempt to define atheism without any knowledge of what an
atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color.
Atheism is a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that atheism
can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be atheists.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
02 Dec 2007 06:37:33 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com>
bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to attend
weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals). Atheists do not believe in your
god or any others. Atheists do not believe the claims of the religious
due to lack of evidence supporting those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes with our
normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a dishonest and
slanderous attempt to define atheism without any knowledge of what an
atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. Atheism is a
religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that atheism can
be religious and religions like Buddhism can be atheists.
Nobody needs to argue with your willful misinterpretations.
He did not say atheism can be religious but religion can be atheist (as
in, atheos, without gods).
Atheism, in fact, cannot *be* anything at all. The term indicates the
being without any gods. That's it. There isn't anything else and nothing
to "be" anything.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not
believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone.”
- H. L. Mencken
.
|
|
|
| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
03 Dec 2007 10:07:06 AM |
|
|
On Dec 2, 6:37 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com>
bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to attend
weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals). Atheists do not believe in your
god or any others. Atheists do not believe the claims of the religious
due to lack of evidence supporting those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes with our
normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a dishonest and
slanderous attempt to define atheism without any knowledge of what an
atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. Atheism is a
religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that atheism can
be religious and religions like Buddhism can be atheists.
Nobody needs to argue with your willful misinterpretations.
He did not say atheism can be religious but religion can be atheist (as
in, atheos, without gods).
Atheism, in fact, cannot *be* anything at all. The term indicates the
being without any gods. That's it. There isn't anything else and nothing
to "be" anything.
If religions can be (and Bob argues many are) atheist, can atheists
(anywhere in the spectrum of atheists) be religious? Bob says they
can.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
03 Dec 2007 11:31:53 AM |
|
|
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writingken@yahoo.com> wrote
snip
If religions can be (and Bob argues many are) atheist, can atheists
(anywhere in the spectrum of atheists) be religious? Bob says they
can.
Who the hell is Bob and why should I care what he says?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
03 Dec 2007 11:22:05 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:07:06 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:37 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kand...@hotmail.com> bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to
attend weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals). Atheists do not believe
in your god or any others. Atheists do not believe the claims of the
religious due to lack of evidence supporting those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes with
our normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a dishonest
and slanderous attempt to define atheism without any knowledge of
what an atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. Atheism is a
religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that atheism
can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be atheists.
Nobody needs to argue with your willful misinterpretations.
He did not say atheism can be religious but religion can be atheist (as
in, atheos, without gods).
Atheism, in fact, cannot *be* anything at all. The term indicates the
being without any gods. That's it. There isn't anything else and
nothing to "be" anything.
If religions can be (and Bob argues many are) atheist, can atheists
(anywhere in the spectrum of atheists) be religious? Bob says they can.
Even if Bob said that (and you're twisting his words, no surprise there),
what of it? You think he's our god and we have to abide by his
commandments? Does reality bend to his will?
This line of babble of yours is idiotic. Not to mention severely
dishonest.
But I never expect Christians to be honest...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“In this world of sin and sorrow there is always
something to be thankful for; as for me,
I rejoice that I am not a Republican.”
- H. L. Mencken
.
|
|
|
| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
03 Dec 2007 12:21:21 PM |
|
|
On Dec 3, 11:22 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:07:06 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:37 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kand...@hotmail.com> bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to
attend weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals). Atheists do not believe
in your god or any others. Atheists do not believe the claims of the
religious due to lack of evidence supporting those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes with
our normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a dishonest
and slanderous attempt to define atheism without any knowledge of
what an atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. Atheism is a
religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that atheism
can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be atheists.
Nobody needs to argue with your willful misinterpretations.
He did not say atheism can be religious but religion can be atheist (as
in, atheos, without gods).
Atheism, in fact, cannot *be* anything at all. The term indicates the
being without any gods. That's it. There isn't anything else and
nothing to "be" anything.
If religions can be (and Bob argues many are) atheist, can atheists
(anywhere in the spectrum of atheists) be religious? Bob says they can.
Even if Bob said that (and you're twisting his words, no surprise there),
what of it?
Direct quotes by Bob...
"Atheists can be religious..."
"...Buddhism is atheistic..."
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion..."
Wanna show me how I twisted Bob's direct quote (here) to say that
religions can be atheist? How about answering the question I asked?
If a religion can be atheist, is there any part of the atheist
spectrum that is religious?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
03 Dec 2007 08:06:51 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:21:21 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 3, 11:22 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:07:06 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:37 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kand...@hotmail.com> bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to
attend weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals). Atheists do not
believe in your god or any others. Atheists do not believe the
claims of the religious due to lack of evidence supporting those
claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes
with our normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a
dishonest and slanderous attempt to define atheism without any
knowledge of what an atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. Atheism is a
religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that
atheism can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be
atheists.
Nobody needs to argue with your willful misinterpretations.
He did not say atheism can be religious but religion can be atheist
(as in, atheos, without gods).
Atheism, in fact, cannot *be* anything at all. The term indicates
the being without any gods. That's it. There isn't anything else and
nothing to "be" anything.
If religions can be (and Bob argues many are) atheist, can atheists
(anywhere in the spectrum of atheists) be religious? Bob says they
can.
Even if Bob said that (and you're twisting his words, no surprise
there), what of it?
Direct quotes by Bob...
"Atheists can be religious..."
"...Buddhism is atheistic..."
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion..."
Wanna show me how I twisted Bob's direct quote (here) to say that
religions can be atheist? How about answering the question I asked? If
a religion can be atheist, is there any part of the atheist spectrum
that is religious?
There is no such thing as an "atheist spectrum" unless you're trying to
indicate that the electromagnetic spectrum is without belief in any gods.
Now...
"Atheists can be religious" is not saying "atheism is religious". Try
reading comprehension sometime.
"...Buddhism is atheistic..."
Yeah? And?
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion..."
Right so far as it goes. Atheistic means "without gods". So far as
Buddhism is a religion and has no gods, it can be described as "an
atheistic religion".
But in every case Bob made a remark about something or someone being
atheist, you yapped about atheism as if you can generalize an atheist or
a group of atheists or the thoughts/beliefs of some set of atheist to all
atheists.
This is fallacious thinking. But in your case, I suspect it's merely
willful dishonesty.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
JWs: "If we were to tell you that there is an army of angels
waiting in Heaven, and on the Day of Judgement they will
be unleashed upon the world to slay all the unbelievers,
what would your response be?"
"Pre-emptive nuclear strike."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
03 Dec 2007 08:11:21 PM |
|
|
In article <mNqdnUT3jo2mK8nanZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com> "Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> writes:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:21:21 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 3, 11:22 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:07:06 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:37 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kand...@hotmail.com> bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to
attend weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals). Atheists do not
believe in your god or any others. Atheists do not believe the
claims of the religious due to lack of evidence supporting those
claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes
with our normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a
dishonest and slanderous attempt to define atheism without any
knowledge of what an atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. Atheism is a
religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that
atheism can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be
atheists.
Nobody needs to argue with your willful misinterpretations.
He did not say atheism can be religious but religion can be atheist
(as in, atheos, without gods).
Atheism, in fact, cannot *be* anything at all. The term indicates
the being without any gods. That's it. There isn't anything else and
nothing to "be" anything.
If religions can be (and Bob argues many are) atheist, can atheists
(anywhere in the spectrum of atheists) be religious? Bob says they
can.
Even if Bob said that (and you're twisting his words, no surprise
there), what of it?
Direct quotes by Bob...
"Atheists can be religious..."
"...Buddhism is atheistic..."
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion..."
Wanna show me how I twisted Bob's direct quote (here) to say that
religions can be atheist? How about answering the question I asked? If
a religion can be atheist, is there any part of the atheist spectrum
that is religious?
There is no such thing as an "atheist spectrum" unless you're trying to
indicate that the electromagnetic spectrum is without belief in any gods.
Now...
"Atheists can be religious" is not saying "atheism is religious". Try
reading comprehension sometime.
"...Buddhism is atheistic..."
Yeah? And?
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion..."
Right so far as it goes. Atheistic means "without gods". So far as
Buddhism is a religion and has no gods, it can be described as "an
atheistic religion".
But in every case Bob made a remark about something or someone being
atheist, you yapped about atheism as if you can generalize an atheist or
a group of atheists or the thoughts/beliefs of some set of atheist to all
atheists.
This is fallacious thinking. But in your case, I suspect it's merely
willful dishonesty.
Oh, Ken is generally prone to wild generalizations along the
line of "Liberals say..." or "Socialists want..." or
"Atheists would have you think that..."
We all look alike to him.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Feminazi Cuntkins" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
04 Dec 2007 04:03:45 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 02:11:21 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
Oh, Ken is generally prone to wild generalizations along the
line of "Liberals say..." or "Socialists want..." or
"Atheists would have you think that..."
We all look alike to him.
Look? Babe, to Kenny we ARE ALL ONE.
FNC, kind of spiritual, if you think about it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
04 Dec 2007 01:57:24 PM |
|
|
In article <ae9al31qjfd7v478nfpnvdr8tod4la31cg@4ax.com> writes:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 02:11:21 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
Oh, Ken is generally prone to wild generalizations along the
line of "Liberals say..." or "Socialists want..." or
"Atheists would have you think that..."
We all look alike to him.
Look? Babe, to Kenny we ARE ALL ONE.
FNC, kind of spiritual, if you think about it.
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all
probably therefore doing something which is a felony
in several Southern states.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Feminazi Cuntkins" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
04 Dec 2007 02:59:43 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:57:24 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <ae9al31qjfd7v478nfpnvdr8tod4la31cg@4ax.com> writes:
Look? Babe, to Kenny we ARE ALL ONE.
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all
probably therefore doing something which is a felony
in several Southern states.
Well, I'm sure just simple possession of you would be illegal in
Texas.
FNC, or maybe that's two of you, I can never remember
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
05 Dec 2007 10:42:36 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:59:43 -0500, Feminazi Cuntkins wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:57:24 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
In article <ae9al31qjfd7v478nfpnvdr8tod4la31cg@4ax.com>
jaezaebael@gmail.com writes:
Look? Babe, to Kenny we ARE ALL ONE.
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all probably therefore
doing something which is a felony in several Southern states.
Well, I'm sure just simple possession of you would be illegal in Texas.
Well, I live there so lemme check...
<flip>
<flip><flip><flip>
<flip>
I'll be damned...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
Surgeon General's Warning:
Quitting Religion Now Greatly Increases the Chances of World Peace.
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
05 Dec 2007 03:16:35 PM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> writes:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:59:43 -0500, Feminazi Cuntkins wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:57:24 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
In article <ae9al31qjfd7v478nfpnvdr8tod4la31cg@4ax.com>
jaezaebael@gmail.com writes:
Look? Babe, to Kenny we ARE ALL ONE.
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all probably therefore
doing something which is a felony in several Southern states.
Well, I'm sure just simple possession of you would be illegal in Texas.
Well, I live there so lemme check...
<flip>
<flip><flip><flip>
<flip>
I'll be damned...
Not to worry...the legislooters at 11th and Congress are more interested in
what's going on in the ten-county SMSA I'm in the middle of (with two of
every nine residents in the state). ;-)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2007-08 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 4, Grand Rapids 3 (OT) (December 1)
NEXT GAME: Friday, December 7 at Manitoba, 7:35
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Feminazi Cuntkins" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
05 Dec 2007 04:53:39 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:42:36 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:59:43 -0500, Feminazi Cuntkins wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:57:24 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all probably therefore
doing something which is a felony in several Southern states.
Well, I'm sure just simple possession of you would be illegal in Texas.
Well, I live there so lemme check...
<flip>
<flip><flip><flip>
<flip>
I'll be damned...
Eh, I could winkle out on the "bona fide medical, psychiatric,
judicial, legislative, or law enforcement purpose." The more than
six thing really sucks, though, since that means boys only can have
five extra.
FNC, scrupulously fair
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
05 Dec 2007 05:04:55 PM |
|
|
In article <rlael3l57plsv1086396440ueo9v7colid@4ax.com> Feminazi Cuntkins <jaezaebael@gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:42:36 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:59:43 -0500, Feminazi Cuntkins wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:57:24 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all probably therefore
doing something which is a felony in several Southern states.
Well, I'm sure just simple possession of you would be illegal in Texas.
Well, I live there so lemme check...
<flip>
<flip><flip><flip>
<flip>
I'll be damned...
Eh, I could winkle out on the "bona fide medical, psychiatric,
Me, I want to know what the psychiatric applications of a sex toy
might be.
I guess when they talk about "a battery of tests", I mistook that
somewhat.
judicial, legislative, or law enforcement purpose."
"Law enforcement purpose"? If the cop yells "***** you!", it's
an order, rather than an insult?
-- cary, keeping my hands in plain view
The more than
six thing really sucks, though, since that means boys only can have
five extra.
FNC, scrupulously fair
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jd" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
06 Dec 2007 09:57:09 PM |
|
|
Forget it old man. You ain't getin' none of that. No way.
Jd
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <rlael3l57plsv1086396440ueo9v7colid@4ax.com> Feminazi Cuntkins <jaezaebael@gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:42:36 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:59:43 -0500, Feminazi Cuntkins wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:57:24 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all probably therefore
doing something which is a felony in several Southern states.
Well, I'm sure just simple possession of you would be illegal in Texas.
Well, I live there so lemme check...
<flip>
<flip><flip><flip>
<flip>
I'll be damned...
Eh, I could winkle out on the "bona fide medical, psychiatric,
Me, I want to know what the psychiatric applications of a sex toy
might be.
I guess when they talk about "a battery of tests", I mistook that
somewhat.
judicial, legislative, or law enforcement purpose."
"Law enforcement purpose"? If the cop yells "***** you!", it's
an order, rather than an insult?
-- cary, keeping my hands in plain view
The more than
six thing really sucks, though, since that means boys only can have
five extra.
FNC, scrupulously fair
-- cary
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
07 Dec 2007 09:31:12 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:04:55 +0000, Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <rlael3l57plsv1086396440ueo9v7colid@4ax.com> Feminazi
Cuntkins <jaezaebael@gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:42:36 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo>
wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:59:43 -0500, Feminazi Cuntkins wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:57:24 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all probably
therefore doing something which is a felony in several Southern
states.
Well, I'm sure just simple possession of you would be illegal in
Texas.
Well, I live there so lemme check...
<flip>
<flip><flip><flip>
<flip>
I'll be damned...
Eh, I could winkle out on the "bona fide medical, psychiatric,
Me, I want to know what the psychiatric applications of a sex toy might
be.
I can't explain, I'll have to show you...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"You know, I'd get it if people were just looking for a
way to fill the holes. But they want the holes. They wanna
live in the holes. And they go nuts when someone else
pours dirt in their holes.
"Climb out of your holes people!"
- Dr. House, on faith
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
04 Dec 2007 06:50:54 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:03:45 -0500, Feminazi Cuntkins wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 02:11:21 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
Oh, Ken is generally prone to wild generalizations along the line of
"Liberals say..." or "Socialists want..." or "Atheists would have you
think that..."
We all look alike to him.
Look? Babe, to Kenny we ARE ALL ONE.
Or in this case...
We are Bob, of the Borg.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“Democracy is the theory that the common people
know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”
- H. L. Mencken
.
|
|
|
| User: "Feminazi Cuntkins" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
04 Dec 2007 02:59:43 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:50:54 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:03:45 -0500, Feminazi Cuntkins wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 02:11:21 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
Oh, Ken is generally prone to wild generalizations along the line of
"Liberals say..." or "Socialists want..." or "Atheists would have you
think that..."
We all look alike to him.
Look? Babe, to Kenny we ARE ALL ONE.
Or in this case...
We are Bob, of the Borg.
Pestilance is useless.
FNC, and the top ten plagues are....
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
04 Dec 2007 03:08:23 PM |
|
|
In article <h4fbl3t5641b0mk8u3qu7oha5lckupohf6@4ax.com> Feminazi Cuntkins <jaezaebael@gmail.com> writes:
om> <sq2dnWDXrtCz0MjanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:50:54 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:03:45 -0500, Feminazi Cuntkins wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 02:11:21 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
Oh, Ken is generally prone to wild generalizations along the line of
"Liberals say..." or "Socialists want..." or "Atheists would have you
think that..."
We all look alike to him.
Look? Babe, to Kenny we ARE ALL ONE.
Or in this case...
We are Bob, of the Borg.
Pestilance is useless.
FNC, and the top ten plagues are....
They're just such a damn CHEERFUL looking set of plauges:
http://www.jewishsource.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=311009&Cat=
Well, maybe all but the dead Egyptian kid.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Anti-Venom" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
04 Dec 2007 01:05:49 PM |
|
|
On Dec 3, 8:06 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:21:21 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 3, 11:22 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:07:06 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:37 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kand...@hotmail.com> bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to
attend weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals). Atheists do not
believe in your god or any others. Atheists do not believe the
claims of the religious due to lack of evidence supporting those
claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes
with our normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a
dishonest and slanderous attempt to define atheism without any
knowledge of what an atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. Atheism is a
religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that
atheism can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be
atheists.
Nobody needs to argue with your willful misinterpretations.
He did not say atheism can be religious but religion can be atheist
(as in, atheos, without gods).
Atheism, in fact, cannot *be* anything at all. The term indicates
the being without any gods. That's it. There isn't anything else and
nothing to "be" anything.
If religions can be (and Bob argues many are) atheist, can atheists
(anywhere in the spectrum of atheists) be religious? Bob says they
can.
Even if Bob said that (and you're twisting his words, no surprise
there), what of it?
Direct quotes by Bob...
"Atheists can be religious..."
"...Buddhism is atheistic..."
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion..."
Wanna show me how I twisted Bob's direct quote (here) to say that
religions can be atheist? How about answering the question I asked? If
a religion can be atheist, is there any part of the atheist spectrum
that is religious?
There is no such thing as an "atheist spectrum" unless you're trying to
indicate that the electromagnetic spectrum is without belief in any gods.
Now...
"Atheists can be religious" is not saying "atheism is religious". Try
reading comprehension sometime.
I would suggest you take your own advice, since my words above (which
you replied to) is that Bob said "atheism can be religious." So, you
admit you have been arguing with my words that you just repeated as
truth.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
04 Dec 2007 03:38:25 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:05:49 -0800, Anti-Venom wrote:
On Dec 3, 8:06 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:21:21 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 3, 11:22 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:07:06 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:37 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kand...@hotmail.com> bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends
to attend weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals). Atheists do
not believe in your god or any others. Atheists do not believe
the claims of the religious due to lack of evidence supporting
those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes
with our normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a
dishonest and slanderous attempt to define atheism without any
knowledge of what an atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. Atheism
is a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that
atheism can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be
atheists.
Nobody needs to argue with your willful misinterpretations.
He did not say atheism can be religious but religion can be
atheist (as in, atheos, without gods).
Atheism, in fact, cannot *be* anything at all. The term indicates
the being without any gods. That's it. There isn't anything else
and nothing to "be" anything.
If religions can be (and Bob argues many are) atheist, can
atheists (anywhere in the spectrum of atheists) be religious? Bob
says they can.
Even if Bob said that (and you're twisting his words, no surprise
there), what of it?
Direct quotes by Bob...
"Atheists can be religious..."
"...Buddhism is atheistic..."
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion..."
Wanna show me how I twisted Bob's direct quote (here) to say that
religions can be atheist? How about answering the question I asked?
If a religion can be atheist, is there any part of the atheist
spectrum that is religious?
There is no such thing as an "atheist spectrum" unless you're trying to
indicate that the electromagnetic spectrum is without belief in any
gods.
Now...
"Atheists can be religious" is not saying "atheism is religious". Try
reading comprehension sometime.
I would suggest you take your own advice, since my words above (which
you replied to) is that Bob said "atheism can be religious." So, you
admit you have been arguing with my words that you just repeated as
truth.
I'll admit you're willfully dishonest.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
Focus on Your Own Damn Family
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Vic" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
03 Dec 2007 08:38:07 PM |
|
|
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com>
bloodied us up with this:
Direct quotes by Bob...
"Atheists can be religious..."
"...Buddhism is atheistic..."
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion..."
Atheism is Buddhism minus the Buddhism.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
02 Dec 2007 06:22:37 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com>
bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to attend
weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals). Atheists do not believe in your
god or any others. Atheists do not believe the claims of the religious
due to lack of evidence supporting those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes with our
normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a dishonest and
slanderous attempt to define atheism without any knowledge of what an
atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. Atheism is a
religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that atheism can
be religious and religions like Buddhism can be atheists.
You're just not very bright are you?
"Atheist" is an adjective. Formed by "a-" (without) "theos" (gods). It is
the state of being without any gods.
A religion that has no gods--and some strains of Buddhism seem so--is,
thus, atheist ("without gods"). See how that works?
Paint can be blue but blue isn't paint (it's a color, look it up).
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“It is often argued that religion is valuable because
it makes men good, but even if this were true it would
not be a proof that religion is true. That would be
an extension of pragmatism beyond endurance.
Santa Claus makes children good in precisely the same
way, and yet no one would argue seriously that the
fact proves his existence. The defense of religion is
full of such logical imbecilities.”
- H. L. Mencken
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
01 Dec 2007 05:13:45 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800 (PST), Wide Eyed in Wonder
<writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com>
bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to attend
weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals).
Atheists do not believe in your god or any others.
Atheists do not believe the claims of the religious due to lack of evidence
supporting those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes with our
normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a dishonest and
slanderous attempt to define atheism without any knowledge of what an
atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color.
Atheism is a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that atheism
can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be atheists.
Your ability to misinterpret the simplest statements is truly
breathtaking, but as your command of the English language isn't
terribly impressive, that's hardly surprising. The idea that atheists
can be religious from a certain perspective does not equate to atheism
itself being a form of religion. And certain schools of Buddhism are,
in fact, atheistic.
---
"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers..."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Vic" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
01 Dec 2007 07:57:28 PM |
|
|
One fine day in alt.atheism, raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com>
bloodied us up with this:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800 (PST), Wide Eyed in Wonder
<writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kand...@hotmail.com> bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to
attend weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals).
Atheists do not believe in your god or any others.
Atheists do not believe the claims of the religious due to lack of
evidence supporting those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes with
our normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a dishonest
and slanderous attempt to define atheism without any knowledge of
what an atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color.
Atheism is a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that atheism
can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be atheists.
Your ability to misinterpret the simplest statements is truly
breathtaking, but as your command of the English language isn't
terribly impressive, that's hardly surprising. The idea that atheists
can be religious from a certain perspective does not equate to atheism
itself being a form of religion. And certain schools of Buddhism are,
in fact, atheistic.
Argumentum ad-hominem.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Vic" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
01 Dec 2007 10:47:22 PM |
|
|
One fine day in alt.atheism, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> bloodied us
up with this:
One fine day in alt.atheism, raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com>
bloodied us up with this:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:40:37 -0800 (PST), Wide Eyed in Wonder
<writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:57 pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kand...@hotmail.com> bloodied us up with this:
<Snip>
Atheism is the lack of a church.
Atheism is the lack of a god belief.
Atheism is the lack of god worship.
Atheism is the lack of theism.
Atheists do not pray.
Atheists do not go to church (unless invited by close friends to
attend weddings, bar mitzvahs, or funerals).
Atheists do not believe in your god or any others.
Atheists do not believe the claims of the religious due to lack of
evidence supporting those claims.
Atheists are not satanists.
Atheists are not evil people.
Atheists do not oppose religious practice unless it interferes with
our normal lives, such as the post I snipped, which was a dishonest
and slanderous attempt to define atheism without any knowledge of
what an atheist really is.
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color.
Atheism is a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Does that help?
Except that you are arguing with Bob, not me. HE said that atheism
can be religious and religions like Buddhism can be atheists.
Your ability to misinterpret the simplest statements is truly
breathtaking, but as your command of the English language isn't
terribly impressive, that's hardly surprising. The idea that atheists
can be religious from a certain perspective does not equate to atheism
itself being a form of religion. And certain schools of Buddhism are,
in fact, atheistic.
Argumentum ad-hominem.
Oops, I have attempted to piggyback and miserably failed. Sorry...
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
01 Dec 2007 12:19:42 PM |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Bob, I must admit I was shocked to find these points coming from you
over the past few years. I think they are really good points, worthy
of discussion. My responses follow "my response:".
1.
Who's the head of the main church of "Christian" and where is it
located?
"Who's the head of the main church of Buddhism and where is it
located?
Who's the head of the main church of Taoism and where is it located?
Who's the head of the main church of Hinduism and where is it located?
Who's the head of the main church of paganism and where is it located?
"Most religions have no central authority and many have no churches.
They are nonetheless religions."
my response: Just like Atheism.
Who is claiming that someone speaks for Buddhists, Taoists, or
atheists?
Who is claiming that any of those other religions have a single
coherent set of beliefs?
2.
"Note that it takes no gods to be religious. Just a devotion to some
specific ultimate reality (Buddhism doesn't necessarily have any
gods)."
my response: Just like Atheism.
Some Buddhists are atheists. Some are not. What is your point?
3.
Interesting that there doesn't seem to be records of any early
civilisations
that were secular or atheistic.
"Buddhism does not require belief in any Gods."
and
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion in that it
requires no deity."
my response: You're admitting Atheism can be religious.
Did I say otherwise? It is a term that pertains to the semantic realm
of religion, though an atheist might be simply areligious.
4.
"Atheists can be quite moral, and some like Newdow, are quite
religious in their pursuit of atheism. (Atheists can be religious in
a different sense, if one practices a religion without a deity, like
Buddhism or libertarianism.) "
my response: You're admitting Atheism can be religious.
My exact words were "Atheists can be religious in a different sense"
so you are repeating the obvious.
5.
"BSA is NOT a "Christian" organization. It could loosely be called
theist, though it accepts Buddhism as a valid religion for scouting
purposes, and at least one Buddhist on the newsgroups has stated that
Buddhism is atheistic."
my response: Would that be yourself?
I am not a Buddhist.
Here is a source or two.
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/buddhism_atheism.html
http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/beliefs/atheism.htm
6.
My belief in a Creator neither constitutes a religion. Merely a belief.
Better check the definition of religion.
All the definitions of religion I find say it is BOTH belief in AND worship of a superior being.
"Taoism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Zoroasterism, or even animism and
spiritualism. All are religions. None has a superior being."
my response: Just like Atheism.
Atheism is not itself a religion. It is a denial of one particular
religious tenet.
7. and...my favorite of your quotes...
"Nothing taught in the schools overrides anyone's religious freedom.
You don't have to believe what science has discovered. You just have to
pass a test showing you understand what science thinks it has discovered.
You also probably have to pass a test showing that you know what communism,
socialism, dictatorship are, but you don't have to believe that any of those are
the right way to live. You also have to know who the Puritans, the
Quakers, and various other religious groups in history were, why they were
important (which sometimes includes knowledge of their beliefs), but you do not
have to accept those beliefs even though you may be taught about them."
my responses: A> You're admitting the schools are pushing a religious
view (as seen in other of your quotes above)
No. The schools do not push any religious view.
B> You admit...point blank...that religion can be
taught in school to students, since they don't have to believe what
they hear...only pass tests on what they are taught.
No. The schools can teach ABOUT religions insofar as such teaching is
necessary to advance a legitimate state educational goal. But the
court has made clear
1) the government action must have a secular purpose;
2) its primary purpose must not be to inhibit or to advance religion;
3) there must be no excessive entanglement between government and
religion.
Thank you for the education, Bob.
You haven't learned anything, so there is no need to thank anyone.
lojbab
.
|
|
|
| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
01 Dec 2007 02:38:50 PM |
|
|
On Dec 1, 12:19 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Bob, I must admit I was shocked to find these points coming from you
over the past few years. I think they are really good points, worthy
of discussion. My responses follow "my response:".
1.
Who's the head of the main church of "Christian" and where is it
located?
"Who's the head of the main church of Buddhism and where is it
located?
Who's the head of the main church of Taoism and where is it located?
Who's the head of the main church of Hinduism and where is it located?
Who's the head of the main church of paganism and where is it located?
"Most religions have no central authority and many have no churches.
They are nonetheless religions."
my response: Just like Atheism.
Who is claiming that someone speaks for Buddhists, Taoists, or
atheists?
Who is claiming that any of those other religions have a single
coherent set of beliefs?
2.
"Note that it takes no gods to be religious. Just a devotion to some
specific ultimate reality (Buddhism doesn't necessarily have any
gods)."
my response: Just like Atheism.
Some Buddhists are atheists. Some are not. What is your point?
3.
Interesting that there doesn't seem to be records of any early
civilisations
that were secular or atheistic.
"Buddhism does not require belief in any Gods."
and
"Buddhism is a religion, but it is an atheistic religion in that it
requires no deity."
my response: You're admitting Atheism can be religious.
Did I say otherwise? It is a term that pertains to the semantic realm
of religion, though an atheist might be simply areligious.
4.
"Atheists can be quite moral, and some like Newdow, are quite
religious in their pursuit of atheism. (Atheists can be religious in
a different sense, if one practices a religion without a deity, like
Buddhism or libertarianism.) "
my response: You're admitting Atheism can be religious.
My exact words were "Atheists can be religious in a different sense"
so you are repeating the obvious.
As relates to your confirmation of my words above...
So, atheism is not the rejection of religion....you admit. As you
say, it can be quite religious. Thus, the government, in promoting
atheism over theism, is taking a religious position and establishment
of a specific religion.
6.
My belief in a Creator neither constitutes a religion. Merely a belief.
Better check the definition of religion.
All the definitions of religion I find say it is BOTH belief in AND worship of a superior being.
"Taoism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Zoroasterism, or even animism and
spiritualism. All are religions. None has a superior being."
my response: Just like Atheism.
Atheism is not itself a religion. It is a denial of one particular
religious tenet.
And, who said the Supreme Court defines the issue on THAT tenet. If
there is to be no establishment of one religion over another, it would
be a ban on establishment of atheistic religious views over theistic
ones, as well...correct?
7. and...my favorite of your quotes...
"Nothing taught in the schools overrides anyone's religious freedom.
You don't have to believe what science has discovered. You just have to
pass a test showing you understand what science thinks it has discovered.
You also probably have to pass a test showing that you know what communism,
socialism, dictatorship are, but you don't have to believe that any of those are
the right way to live. You also have to know who the Puritans, the
Quakers, and various other religious groups in history were, why they were
important (which sometimes includes knowledge of their beliefs), but you do not
have to accept those beliefs even though you may be taught about them."
my responses: A> You're admitting the schools are pushing a religious
view (as seen in other of your quotes above)
No. The schools do not push any religious view.
Your own quote, here, is against you, since you said that the
religious should just receive the teaching contrary to their beliefs
(elevation of another belief over their own), since they are not
required to believe them, only repeat them on a test.
B> You admit...point blank...that religion can be
taught in school to students, since they don't have to believe what
they hear...only pass tests on what they are taught.
No. The schools can teach ABOUT religions insofar as such teaching is
necessary to advance a legitimate state educational goal. But the
court has made clear
1) the government action must have a secular purpose;
2) its primary purpose must not be to inhibit or to advance religion;
3) there must be no excessive entanglement between government and
religion.
Again, this is contrary to your own quote that said the government
isn't forcing anyone to believe contrary beliefs taught to them, only
learn them in order to reproduce them on the test. Specifically, you
said ....
"You also have to know who the Puritans, the Quakers, and various
other religious groups in history were, why they were important (which
sometimes includes knowledge of their beliefs), but you do not have to
accept those beliefs even though you may be taught about them."
So, before, you said beliefs can be taught in public schools. Now,
you are changing your mind?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: Bob's Good Points about Religion in School |
01 Dec 2007 05:10:09 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:38:50 -0800 (PST), Wide Eyed in Wonder
<writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
Atheism is not itself a religion. It is a denial of one particular
religious tenet.
And, who said the Supreme Court defines the issue on THAT tenet. If
there is to be no establishment of one religion over another, it would
be a ban on establishment of atheistic religious views over theistic
ones, as well...correct?
Among most speakers of the English language, words have actual
meanings. Atheism is not a religion in any meaningful sense of the
word, regardless of what the SCOTUS has to say about it one way or
another, or your own particular brand of disingenuousness.
---
"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers..."
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
