Dr. DuFonet wrote:

"Richard Uhrich" <uhrich@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hyjGb.27883$Vs3.8517@twister.socal.rr.com...

Dr. DuFonet wrote:

"jack_the_mormon" <Jack_the_Mormon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4f8f6ffd.0312181231.1e8f7211@posting.google.com...

Don't let the Tag fool you - I'm not really "Mormon". Anyhow, my
questions for the group is this:

Can anyone reccomend a good book or website that seriously explores
the evidences (on both sides) and core issues of the creationist v.
evolutionist debate?

I've looked and found a few sites heavily biased one way or the other
- as well as some seriously funny satire - but no attempts at a
"fair-and-balanced" review of the core arguments/evidences/issues.

Thanks for any help you can give.
-Jack-

A dictionary would let you know how to spell recommendations.

How can you look up a word if you don't know how to spell it? Flip
through the pages looking for a picture?

That's what spell checkers are for. And spelling police.

First you have to learn how to read. then you start with the first

of the word and read the dictionary. If you just know the first ltter

reading until your subconscious speaks to you.

Guess you never read Mark Twain, "My Brother Bill." It requires a
sense of humor.

<snip>

You know Rich - that you cannot simultaneously be a good,
temple-worthy Mormon AND subscribe to evolutionist theories. "The
Church" has been pretty clear on this. Perhaps you are like me -
"Jack Mormon"?

You shouldn't lie. I've had bishops who understood quite well
how evolution works, given that they were professors of
molecular biology and other allied fields.

Understanind how evolution works and publically proclaiming belief in
evolution are two different things.

And BYU has an excellent life sciences department, and a good
museum, both of which teach about biological evolution. And
you're required to be a temple recommend holder if you're a
mormon prof at BYU.

How 'bout how these three professors were treated:
"Refusing to acquiesce to their leaders' demands (of forbiding the
teaching evolution at BYU), the three professors in question, Henry
and Joseph Peterson and Ralph Chamberlin, were dismissed or fired for
being out of harmony with the authorities of the church. When students
and faculty protested, they were chastised for 'dictating' to 'the
prophets." (Dan Erickson, Dialogue 30:2, page 9)

So perhaps you're a jack-mormon because you're just too
slack with the truth? Or perhaps you've just had bad
experiences and generalized too far from them. Either
way, your categorical statement is easily demonstrably
false.

rich

Rich, I sense I've touched a nerve. Maybe it's time you learned a
little about what your religion teaches about evolution. Please read
and respond to the following statements. Pleae indicate whether you
believe these men to be inspired and if you believe their statements
to be "true".
"It is held by some that Adam was not the first man upon this earth,
and that the original human was a development from lower orders of the
animal creation. These, however, are the theories of men. The word of
the Lord declares that Adam was `the first man of all men,' and we are
therefore in duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of the
race." Joseph fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation Vol.
"...do not mortgage your soul for unproved theories...[the notion
that] god used an evolutionary process to prepare a physical body for
the spirit is...false. (Boyd K. Packer, The Law and the Light, 21,
24-26, 1988 address to church educators)
"Heresy 3: Organic evolution is the process whereby all life on earth
came into being, and man, as now constituted, is the end product of
this process.

Commentary: This is the false view of many self-designated scientists.
The tendency among them is to present Darwinian theories as
established realities. These theories postulate the evolvement of all
forms of life from lower orders over astronomically long periods of
time. They assume death has always been present and that there never
was a fall, and they make no provision for a plan of redemption and a
resurrection of all forms of life.

Heresy 4: Evolution is the process God used to create all forms of
life except Adam, who came by special creation; or Adam was the end
product of an evolutionary system used by the Lord for his own
purposes.
Commentary: These false notions, together with whatever variations of
them happen to be in vogue at any given time, are simply an attempt,
on the part of those whose faith falls short of the divine standard,
to harmonize the specious theories of men with the revelations of the
Lord. They pledge a superficial allegiance to religious truth and
allow for a form of divine worship without forsaking the theories of
men. They, of necessity, assume that death has always existed on
earth, that it did not have its beginning with the fall of Adam, and
that there must be some other explanation for all the revelations
which say that the atonement ransoms man from the effects of the fall.
When those who espouse this view talk of a fall and an atonement, they
falsely assume such applies only to man rather than to the earth and
all forms of life, as the scriptures attest."(Bruce R. McConkie, A New
Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.99)
"Our families may be corrupted by worldly trends and teachings unless
we know how to use the book (Book of Mormon) to expose and combat the
falsehoods in socialism, organic evolution, rationalism, humanism,
etc". (Ezra Taft Benson, Ensign 5/1975:63-65, this was said and
written in numerous places including the period of time after he was
sustained as President and Prophet)
If life began on the earth, as advocated by Darwin, Huxley, Haeckel
(who has been caught openhanded perpetrating a fraud), and others of
this school, whether by chance or by some designing hand, then the
doctrines of the Church are false. (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr.,
Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.143)
The living prophet gets at what we need to know now, and the world
prefers that prophets either be dead or mind their own business. Some
would-be authorities on evolution want the prophet to keep still on
evolution. (Ezra Taft Benson, Fourteen Fundamentals In Following The
Prophet, February 26, 1980)
I could go on-and-on but this post would get too long. I suggest,
Rich, that you take this issue up with your Stake President. Or at
your next Fast & Testimony meeting bear your testimony on the
truthfullness of evolution - and see how long before your approached
by church leadership in an attempt to shut you up. The truth is -
"The Church" doesn't want you to think - they want you to blindly
believe whatever the church leaders say. Unless, of course, science
or society prove those beliefs to be unpopular (see Blacks and the
Priesthood) in which case - new revelation will be unfolded to you at
a later date. (hehe)
Best wishes,
Jack
--------------
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on
divine revelation, ancient and modern, proclaims man to be the direct
and lineal offspring of Deity".
So does this mean the Mormon God had sex with a female
Australopithecus Afarensis like he did with Mary? (hehe) How do you
explain this one rich?

rich hammett wrote:

In talk.origins jack_the_mormon <Jack_the_Mormon@yahoo.com> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:

rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in message news:<vu470j28asi122@corp.supernews.com>...

In talk.origins jack_the_mormon <Jack_the_Mormon@yahoo.com> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:

Don't let the Tag fool you - I'm not really "Mormon". Anyhow, my
questions for the group is this:

Can anyone reccomend a good book or website that seriously explores
the evidences (on both sides) and core issues of the creationist v.
evolutionist debate?

I've looked and found a few sites heavily biased one way or the other
- as well as some seriously funny satire - but no attempts at a
"fair-and-balanced" review of the core arguments/evidences/issues.

Thanks for any help you can give.
-Jack-

TalkOrigins.org is the best I have found, with some good
overviews and links to just about any other material
we can find out there.

rich "the mormon" hammett

You know Rich - that you cannot simultaneously be a good,
temple-worthy Mormon AND subscribe to evolutionist theories. "The
Church" has been pretty clear on this. Perhaps you are like me -
"Jack Mormon"?

You shouldn't lie. I've had bishops who understood quite well
how evolution works, given that they were professors of
molecular biology and other allied fields.

And BYU has an excellent life sciences department, and a good
museum, both of which teach about biological evolution. And
you're required to be a temple recommend holder if you're a
mormon prof at BYU.

So perhaps you're a jack-mormon because you're just too
slack with the truth? Or perhaps you've just had bad
experiences and generalized too far from them. Either
way, your categorical statement is easily demonstrably
false.

Second. I know at least one mormon in good standing who's a professor of
evolutionary biology at BYU. I just saw him at the annual meeting of the
Society for the Study of Evolution, in June.