| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
29 Jul 2007 07:48:45 AM |
| Object: |
Born and Raised as an Atheist |
Have you ever thought or said, ‘I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others’? True, religion is
very personal—virtually from birth religious or ethical ideas are
implanted in our mind by our parents and relatives. As a consequence, we
usually follow the religious ideals of our parents and grandparents.
Religion has become almost a matter of family tradition. What is the
result of that process? That in many cases others have chosen our
religion for us. It has simply been a matter of where we were born and
when. Or, as historian Arnold Toynbee indicated, an individual’s
adherence to a certain faith is often determined by “the geographical
accident of the locality of his birth-place.”
Is it reasonable to assume that the religion imposed at one’s birth
is necessarily the whole truth? If you were born in Italy or South
America, then, without any choice, you were probably raised a Catholic.
If you were born in India, then likely you automatically became a Hindu
or, if from the Punjab, perhaps a Sikh. If your parents were from
Pakistan, then you would obviously be a Muslim. And if you were born in
a Socialist country over the last few decades, you might have had no
choice but to be raised an atheist.—Galatians 1:13, 14; Acts 23:6.
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?RORyRmzka2Vu?=" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
30 Jul 2007 12:07:36 AM |
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<Carol@remailer.metacolo.com>; <Witkowski@remailer.metacolo.com> is JABRIOL
wrote in message
news:6517b3178fff2ce1410f2fcb366c4360@remailer.metacolo.com...
The person above known as Antonio L Santana aka JABRIOL is a devout
creationist Jehovah's Witness.
(SNIP sos)
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
29 Jul 2007 03:19:51 PM |
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wrote:
Have you ever thought or said, 'I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others'? True, religion is
very personal-virtually from birth religious or ethical ideas are
implanted in our mind by our parents and relatives. As a consequence,
we usually follow the religious ideals of our parents and
grandparents. Religion has become almost a matter of family
tradition. What is the result of that process? That in many cases
others have chosen our religion for us. It has simply been a matter
of where we were born and when. Or, as historian Arnold Toynbee
indicated, an individual's adherence to a certain faith is often
determined by "the geographical accident of the locality of his
birth-place."
Is it reasonable to assume that the religion imposed at one's birth
is necessarily the whole truth? If you were born in Italy or South
America, then, without any choice, you were probably raised a
Catholic. If you were born in India, then likely you automatically
became a Hindu or, if from the Punjab, perhaps a Sikh. If your
parents were from Pakistan, then you would obviously be a Muslim. And
if you were born in a Socialist country over the last few decades,
you might have had no choice but to be raised an atheist.-Galatians
1:13, 14; Acts 23:6.
In the 2000 census over 70% of teh population of the Chico Paradise area of
Northern California chose "none" as opposed to "other" when asked their
religious affiliation.
Glenn county, where I live, was over 50%.
None was not an option in prior years.
It would seem that the majority of people are becoming theists as the
reality of science and education shows that traditional religion is clearly
not true.
In the past Paradise has been known for it's church on every corner and
ultimate conservative climate.
Glenn county is a bit red necked.
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
29 Jul 2007 12:50:54 PM |
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wrote:
Have you ever thought or said, =91I have my own religion. It is a ve=
ry=20
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others=92? True, religion is =
very personal=97virtually from birth religious or ethical ideas are=20
implanted in our mind by our parents and relatives.
(snip)
I think that, statistically speaking, one is most likely to=20
have religious views similar to one's parents, but there are=20
so many exceptions, that you should not assume that any=20
particular individual has religious views similar to those=20
of his parents.
For example, my parents were devout Catholics and raised all=20
their children in that faith, but I lost that faith as a=20
teenager, and as a result of long and thoughtful discussions=20
with them and my siblings (I have 7), our whole family=20
ceased to be Catholic (One of the things for which I am most=20
proud of them). Eventually a few members of my family took=20
up various religious views, again, and one is now Catholic,=20
or, at least, attends Catholic services. One is Buddhist.=20
I have no information about the rest, as we do not generally=20
ever talk about religion, at all.
But I agree that my ethics were instilled in me by my=20
parents at an early age. They are the most consistently=20
ethical people I have known.
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| User: "Skeptical KD" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
29 Jul 2007 01:33:28 PM |
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On Jul 29, 12:50 pm, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:
But I agree that my ethics were instilled in me by my
parents at an early age. They are the most consistently
ethical people I have known.
You're lucky. That is not always the case and it depends on the
family Of course, even bad parents can be a good model of how *not*
to behave. I got a lot of lessons like that from my dad.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
30 Jul 2007 11:26:50 AM |
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"Skeptical KD" <newsgroups4kd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185734008.957139.113770@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 29, 12:50 pm, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:
But I agree that my ethics were instilled in me by my
parents at an early age. They are the most consistently
ethical people I have known.
You're lucky. That is not always the case and it depends on the
family Of course, even bad parents can be a good model of how *not*
to behave. I got a lot of lessons like that from my dad.
And I got a lot of lessons like that from my mother :(
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Skeptical KD" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
30 Jul 2007 06:06:05 PM |
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On Jul 30, 11:26 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
And I got a lot of lessons like that from my mother :(
I hear ya, sister.
-KD
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
31 Jul 2007 09:57:50 AM |
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"Skeptical KD" <newsgroups4kd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185836765.136958.230900@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 30, 11:26 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
And I got a lot of lessons like that from my mother :(
I hear ya, sister.
At least my husband and I will tell our daughter, "Hon, this is an example
of how NOT to behave." ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Skeptical KD" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
31 Jul 2007 11:52:50 AM |
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On Jul 31, 9:57 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
At least my husband and I will tell our daughter, "Hon, this is an example
of how NOT to behave." ;)
I figured out at a younger age than most, I think, that a lot of
adults (parents, teachers, nuns, other authority figures) were lacking
in basic information, morals, or other fundamentals and should not be
emulated. I had a pretty firm understanding of that by about age
eight / third grade.
-KD
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
31 Jul 2007 12:09:21 PM |
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"Skeptical KD" <newsgroups4kd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185900770.184964.325650@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 31, 9:57 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
At least my husband and I will tell our daughter, "Hon, this is an
example
of how NOT to behave." ;)
I figured out at a younger age than most, I think, that a lot of
adults (parents, teachers, nuns, other authority figures) were lacking
in basic information, morals, or other fundamentals and should not be
emulated. I had a pretty firm understanding of that by about age
eight / third grade.
Sadly, I was quite a bit older when I figured out that my mother was full of
***** (though honestly doesn't believe she ever was/is).
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
29 Jul 2007 02:32:38 PM |
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wrote:
Have you ever thought or said, ‘I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others’?
Nope.
True, religion is
very personal—virtually from birth religious or ethical ideas are
implanted in our mind by our parents and relatives. As a consequence, we
usually follow the religious ideals of our parents and grandparents.
Religion has become almost a matter of family tradition. What is the
result of that process? That in many cases others have chosen our
religion for us. It has simply been a matter of where we were born and
when. Or, as historian Arnold Toynbee indicated, an individual’s
adherence to a certain faith is often determined by “the geographical
accident of the locality of his birth-place.”
Is it reasonable to assume that the religion imposed at one’s birth
is necessarily the whole truth?
You're looking for reason in religion? you're barking up the wrong tree.
If you were born in Italy or South
America, then, without any choice, you were probably raised a Catholic.
If you were born in India, then likely you automatically became a Hindu
or, if from the Punjab, perhaps a Sikh. If your parents were from
Pakistan, then you would obviously be a Muslim. And if you were born in
a Socialist country over the last few decades, you might have had no
choice but to be raised an atheist.—Galatians 1:13, 14; Acts 23:6.
.
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| User: "Kathy" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
30 Jul 2007 12:11:16 AM |
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"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:HPmdnaUhTefKdjHbnZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@inreach.com...
Carol@remailer.metacolo.com aka *JABRIOL* wrote:
Have you ever thought or said, ‘I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others’?
Nope.
Jabriol just got another group of people to read plagiarized Watchtower
material. He's using a remailer to hide his identity from the elders in his
congregation and from the abuse dept. at Verizon.
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| User: "Daneel Olivaw" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
30 Jul 2007 04:44:01 AM |
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Kathy wrote:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:HPmdnaUhTefKdjHbnZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@inreach.com...
Carol@remailer.metacolo.com aka *JABRIOL* wrote:
Have you ever thought or said, ‘I have my own religion. It is a
very personal matter. I do not discuss it with others’?
Nope.
Jabriol just got another group of people to read plagiarized Watchtower
material. He's using a remailer to hide his identity from the elders in
his congregation and from the abuse dept. at Verizon.
What is your point? This is Usenet.
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| User: "Saren Artirius" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
30 Jul 2007 04:45:23 AM |
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Kathy wrote:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:HPmdnaUhTefKdjHbnZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@inreach.com...
Carol@remailer.metacolo.com aka *JABRIOL* wrote:
Have you ever thought or said, ‘I have my own religion. It is a
very personal matter. I do not discuss it with others’?
Nope.
Jabriol just got another group of people to read plagiarized Watchtower
material. He's using a remailer to hide his identity from the elders in
his congregation and from the abuse dept. at Verizon.
What is your point? This is Usenet.
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| User: "The Heretic" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist - JABRIOL TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!!! |
30 Jul 2007 12:05:26 AM |
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Antonio L. Santana aka JABRIOL posting as his victim again.
Antonio L. Santana_Cadia aka JABRIOL <Carol@remailer.metacolo.com>;
<Witkowski@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:6517b3178fff2ce1410f2fcb366c4360@remailer.metacolo.com...
Have you ever thought or said, 'I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others'? True, religion is
<snip>
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| User: "Ips-Switch" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist - JABRIOL TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!!! |
30 Jul 2007 01:09:46 AM |
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"The Heretic" <durondae_@_hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:f8jrie$t3$1@registered.motzarella.org...
Antonio L. Santana aka JABRIOL posting as his victim again.
I think we all know that already. :-)
Antonio L. Santana_Cadia aka JABRIOL <Carol@remailer.metacolo.com>;
<Witkowski@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:6517b3178fff2ce1410f2fcb366c4360@remailer.metacolo.com...
Have you ever thought or said, 'I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others'? True, religion is
<snip>
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| User: "Daneel Olivaw" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist - JABRIOL TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!!! |
30 Jul 2007 04:45:31 AM |
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The Heretic wrote:
Antonio L. Santana aka JABRIOL posting as his victim again.
Antonio L. Santana_Cadia aka JABRIOL <Carol@remailer.metacolo.com>;
<Witkowski@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:6517b3178fff2ce1410f2fcb366c4360@remailer.metacolo.com...
Have you ever thought or said, 'I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others'? True, religion is
<snip>
What are you talking about?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
29 Jul 2007 10:03:03 AM |
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On 29 jul, 14:48, Ca...@remailer.metacolo.com,
Witkow...@remailer.metacolo.com wrote:
Have you ever thought or said, 'I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others'? True, religion is
very personal-virtually from birth religious or ethical ideas are
implanted in our mind by our parents and relatives. As a consequence, we
usually follow the religious ideals of our parents and grandparents.
Religion has become almost a matter of family tradition. What is the
result of that process? That in many cases others have chosen our
religion for us. It has simply been a matter of where we were born and
when. Or, as historian Arnold Toynbee indicated, an individual's
adherence to a certain faith is often determined by "the geographical
accident of the locality of his birth-place."
Is it reasonable to assume that the religion imposed at one's birth
is necessarily the whole truth? If you were born in Italy or South
America, then, without any choice, you were probably raised a Catholic.
If you were born in India, then likely you automatically became a Hindu
or, if from the Punjab, perhaps a Sikh. If your parents were from
Pakistan, then you would obviously be a Muslim. And if you were born in
a Socialist country over the last few decades, you might have had no
choice but to be raised an atheist.-Galatians 1:13, 14; Acts 23:6.
This is mostly true, but many people change (or shed) their religion
too.
My parents were members of the Roman Cahtolic church, my sister still
is, but I am an atheist now. Mind you my father was the first one to
suppose there was no immortal soul. I remember him saying. "If you
live on, it is thru your children"
Quite a Darwinistic - and not a very theistic - remark, I presume.
I only became an atheist after he died.
Peter van Velzen
July 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "Skeptical KD" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
29 Jul 2007 01:30:11 PM |
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On Jul 29, 10:03 am, "pba...@worldonline.nl" <pba...@worldonline.nl>
wrote:
This is mostly true, but many people change (or shed) their religion
too.
True. I know I did. Of three sisters, the eldest (me) and the middle
sister abandoned the Catholicism of our childhoods. Interestingly,
the third sister, the only one not baptized or confirmed into the
church as a child (I guess my dad gave up by then), became a Catholic
in adulthood.
Keep in mind that my dad hadn't gone to church probably since my
middle sister was confirmed, if then. Well, other than when his
brother died, for the funeral. But that didn't prevent him from
considering himself a Catholic and, indeed, we had a Catholic funeral
for him when he died.
Go figure.
Still, I think the norm is for folks to stick with the religion they
were born into.
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| User: "Santolina chamaecyparissus" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
29 Jul 2007 09:37:51 PM |
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On Jul 29, 5:48 am, Ca...@remailer.metacolo.com,
Witkow...@remailer.metacolo.com wrote:
And if you were born in
a Socialist country over the last few decades, you might have had no
choice but to be raised an atheist.-Galatians 1:13, 14; Acts 23:6.
That's an interesting translation of those passages.
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
31 Jul 2007 06:31:15 PM |
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On Jul 29, 8:48 am, Ca...@remailer.metacolo.com,
Witkow...@remailer.metacolo.com wrote:
Have you ever thought or said, 'I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others'? True, religion is
very personal-virtually from birth religious or ethical ideas are
implanted in our mind by our parents and relatives. As a consequence, we
usually follow the religious ideals of our parents and grandparents.
Religion has become almost a matter of family tradition. What is the
result of that process? That in many cases others have chosen our
religion for us. It has simply been a matter of where we were born and
when. Or, as historian Arnold Toynbee indicated, an individual's
adherence to a certain faith is often determined by "the geographical
accident of the locality of his birth-place."
Is it reasonable to assume that the religion imposed at one's birth
is necessarily the whole truth? If you were born in Italy or South
America, then, without any choice, you were probably raised a Catholic.
If you were born in India, then likely you automatically became a Hindu
or, if from the Punjab, perhaps a Sikh. If your parents were from
Pakistan, then you would obviously be a Muslim. And if you were born in
a Socialist country over the last few decades, you might have had no
choice but to be raised an atheist.-Galatians 1:13, 14; Acts 23:6.
Yes, that was how it was with me.
My own journey leaving theism was a long one.
I was Catholic for 50 years and am now a freethinking agnostic.
It all started for me many years ago when an ex-Krishna / Wicca
massage lady told me that Jesus was not born on December 25 and the
Christians adopted that day to steal it away from the pagans holiday.
Then she told be it was the same with Halloween.
A few years later I found out that the gospels were not written by the
apostles or men that even knew Jesus.
Then I came across Freke's book 'The Jesus Mysteries.' I started to
study the beginnings of Christianity and how the Nicene council was
nothing more than a political convention to find out who had the best
spin on Jesus.
I wrote to a few professors such Bart D. Ehrman and others asking
about The Jesus Mysteries. Their reply was it wasn't worth reading or
just nonsense.
Relieved that such talk was hogwash, I drifted back to religion for
some time until the next crack showed up at my door.
I was on a Buddhist forum eSangha (where I was eventually banned) and
the discussion turned to Jesus. Someone mentioned the 'Jesus Never
Existed' website and then this forum came about so I joined.
Then talked with an ex-rabbi dizax that guided me into more detailed
biblical study.
Meeting that ex-rabbi was a major turning point in my life of
religious beliefs, as I had never bothered to 'really' study what the
foundation of monotheism was based on. I only bought the religious
hype and did not know the facts.
Then one day read in the news that the church abolishes limbo. This
did not go well with the concept of the truth is that which does not
change.
Then watched some shows on the History Channel about religion that
gave me more insight by exposing the lies.
I talked with some Christian members at the forums.
Sometimes their argument's were really insane. One Christian argued
that the ancient coal and fossils were planted by the devil to trick
us so we would not believe in God and go to hell.
Other were smarter and less extreme. One in particular was most
knowledgeable. He said the bible was the perfect word of God EXCEPT
the creation story which he viewed as myth.
Well, if we start to pick and choose what is real or lies in the
bible...where does it end?
I started to talk with many atheists and listened to their stories.
All good questions they proposed and the theists could never begin to
answer them.
I sated listening to some of Ken Humphrey's programs:
http://jesusneverexisted.com/ken-Alchemy.mp3
http://breakfornews.com/my/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=190&mode=thread%22(der=0&thold=0
http://jesusneverexisted.com/kenwfm.mp3
As I continued to study religion and the bible in particular, I could
see very clearly now that all religion is man made and flavored with
the ego's of men.
That was my day on enlightenment...now it is your turn my friend.
And after about 7 years of developing cracks in my Catholic
foundations, I decided that I would make a change in my way of life,
sided on the path of truth and left the church evolving into a truth
based Agnostic Freethinker.
I still use many tools from spiritual as well as religious sources.
If the tool can be tested for truth and does not require faith, then I
make use of it if it promotes inner peace. (I should say it does take
'faith to test' sometimes, but once you start the test, the need for
faith evaporates.)
see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "Skeptical KD" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
01 Aug 2007 07:37:16 AM |
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On Jul 31, 6:31 pm, V <vf...@aol.com> wrote:
Yes, that was how it was with me.
My own journey leaving theism was a long one.
Congratulations on retaining such an open mind about religion. I
don't know for sure and haven't seen any studies on it, but I would
guess that people are less likely to significantly change their minds
as they get older - a lifetime of rationalizing one's religious
beliefs (or other fantasies) embeds them very deeply.
Skeptical KD (female)
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
29 Jul 2007 09:21:05 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:48:45 +0000 (UTC), Carol@remailer.metacolo.com,
Witkowski@remailer.metacolo.com wrote:
Have you ever thought or said, ‘I have my own religion. It is a very
personal matter. I do not discuss it with others’?
No.
True, religion is
very personal—virtually from birth religious or ethical ideas are
implanted in our mind by our parents and relatives. As a consequence, we
usually follow the religious ideals of our parents and grandparents.
Religion has become almost a matter of family tradition. What is the
result of that process?
Muder, genocide, wars, intolerance etc.
That in many cases others have chosen our
religion for us. It has simply been a matter of where we were born and
when. Or, as historian Arnold Toynbee indicated, an individual’s
adherence to a certain faith is often determined by “the geographical
accident of the locality of his birth-place.”
Is it reasonable to assume that the religion imposed at one’s birth
is necessarily the whole truth?
It is fucking insane.
If you were born in Italy or South
America, then, without any choice, you were probably raised a Catholic.
If you were born in India, then likely you automatically became a Hindu
or, if from the Punjab, perhaps a Sikh. If your parents were from
Pakistan, then you would obviously be a Muslim. And if you were born in
a Socialist country over the last few decades, you might have had no
choice but to be raised an atheist.—Galatians 1:13, 14; Acts 23:6.
Why the babble quotations?
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| User: "The Heretic" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
30 Jul 2007 12:13:40 AM |
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"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:aliqa354rhqi37efpc6t40je3lmm9821l0@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:48:45 +0000 (UTC), Carol@remailer.metacolo.com,
Witkowski@remailer.metacolo.com wrote:
Why the babble quotations?
What do you expect from the creationist Antonio Santana aka Jabriol? He
got you to read Watchtower blather, and to him, that's what counts. ;-)
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Born and Raised as an Atheist |
30 Jul 2007 12:56:04 AM |
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On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:13:40 -0500, "The Heretic"
<durondae_@_hotpop.com> wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:aliqa354rhqi37efpc6t40je3lmm9821l0@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:48:45 +0000 (UTC), Carol@remailer.metacolo.com,
Witkowski@remailer.metacolo.com wrote:
Why the babble quotations?
What do you expect from the creationist Antonio Santana aka Jabriol? He
got you to read Watchtower blather, and to him, that's what counts. ;-)
Oh *****!
There's another nym for the kill-file.
.
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