On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:29:40 +0000 in episode
<pan.2004.04.13.12.29.26.650000@remove-this.hotmail.com> we saw our hero
Brainfried <obfusc8ed@remove-this.hotmail.com>:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:31:11 +1000, Matt wrote:

Brainfried wrote:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:25:49 +1000, Matt wrote:

JTEM wrote:

The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily in small cars
again.

Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its replacement, the
Cobalt, a "premium small car."

Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the little 1.5 liter
engine.

I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup trucks for the room
mate, and both Toyota & GMC appear to have removed the fuel economy
ratings for their smaller trucks with the V6.

MPG: NA

If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry isn't
expecting gas prices to fall...

But then again, the US petrol prices are still low, $1.80 a gallon,
thats around 55cents a litre. What are people over there whining about?
most people would give their first born son to get prices like that in
Australia, NZ or any other part of the globe.

Matt

It's not the fuel that's so expensive, it's the tax on the gas that
kills you.

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/gastaxes.asp

Old numbers, but you get the idea. More than 3/4 of the cost in the UK
is tax. A few years ago, they would put the tax cost on the pumps in
the US so you knew what you were paying.

In most countries, the tax is the vast majority of the cost of the
fuel. In the US, it's about 1/3 of the total cost, very low, granted we
probably get taxed in other ways to build roads and such.

So, the next time you're complaining about fuel prices, stop pointing
the finger at the oil companies and how they're evil greedy
corporations and start pointing them at your government.

True, however, in NZ for example we have ACC levy, GST or 12.5% plus a
fuel tax that is meant to, in theory, pay for the maintenance and
creation of new roads.

However, how does the US pay for the roads, do they take it out of
direct taxation; in other words, allocate a budget for the ministry of
raods out of the consolidated government coffers or is the over all road
tax a lot lower?

Matt

The money comes from a variety of places, federal, state, county, city,
etc. and funding for certain roads depends somewhat on the area the road
is to be built and type of road in question. They make all kinds of deals
and juggle money around. Additionally, taxes earmarked for one thing are
quite often used for another. They pitched the Texas Lottery as paying
for education, but in reality that money goes into the general state
coffers.

Yeah I remember when the lottery came about. I was back in Texas when the
big flap over it was going on. I love the way people fall for these "the
money will go for X" pitches. Every bit of state income is dumped into the
general treasury. Whether any particular amount goes to any particular
program depends on the discipline (HA!) of the legislature.

People shouldn't have bought that pitch unless it was written right into
the amendment that legalized the lottery...

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:27:56 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
thought hard and said:

The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.

They all look ugly as hell.
My little pickup gets 25 mpg and gas is still cheap around here. $1.43
a gallon. And it actually has somewhat of an engine.

I know the majority of Americans don't like hearing this,
but gasoline in the US is far too cheap and encourages
profligacy.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:27:56 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:

The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.

Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."

Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.

Sort of sums up the problem from the European perspective, that you
call a 1.5 litre engine "little". I don't think I have ever owned a
car with an engine that big in 35 years' driving.

When the current cost of petrol (gasoline) in the UK is 80p a litre,
or at current rates of exchange $5.20 a US gallon, I think you can see
why. Petrol is heavily taxed to conserve oil, so we are told by the
government, though I suspect that the extra tax income is welcome.

I know the majority of Americans don't like hearing this, but gasoline
in the US is far too cheap and encourages profligacy.

No doubt when the fuel crunch comes - as it will - then Americans may
think differently, but at the present time I guess any US politician
suggesting conservation by taxation is likely to be as welcome as a
turd in a swimming pool, and would not have a hope in "hell" of ever
being elected.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:27:56 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:

The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.

Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."

Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.

Sort of sums up the problem from the European perspective, that you
call a 1.5 litre engine "little". I don't think I have ever owned a
car with an engine that big in 35 years' driving.

When the current cost of petrol (gasoline) in the UK is 80p a litre,
or at current rates of exchange $5.20 a US gallon, I think you can see
why. Petrol is heavily taxed to conserve oil, so we are told by the
government, though I suspect that the extra tax income is welcome.

I know the majority of Americans don't like hearing this, but gasoline
in the US is far too cheap and encourages profligacy.

No doubt when the fuel crunch comes - as it will - then Americans may
think differently, but at the present time I guess any US politician
suggesting conservation by taxation is likely to be as welcome as a
turd in a swimming pool, and would not have a hope in "hell" of ever
being elected.

JPG

I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup
trucks for the room mate, and both Toyota & GMC
appear to have removed the fuel economy ratings
for their smaller trucks with the V6.

MPG: NA

If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry
isn't expecting gas prices to fall...

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:27:56 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:

The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.

Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."

Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.

Sort of sums up the problem from the European perspective, that you
call a 1.5 litre engine "little". I don't think I have ever owned a
car with an engine that big in 35 years' driving.

When the current cost of petrol (gasoline) in the UK is 80p a litre,
or at current rates of exchange $5.20 a US gallon, I think you can see
why. Petrol is heavily taxed to conserve oil, so we are told by the
government, though I suspect that the extra tax income is welcome.

I know the majority of Americans don't like hearing this, but gasoline
in the US is far too cheap and encourages profligacy.

No doubt when the fuel crunch comes - as it will - then Americans may
think differently, but at the present time I guess any US politician
suggesting conservation by taxation is likely to be as welcome as a
turd in a swimming pool, and would not have a hope in "hell" of ever
being elected.