| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JTEM" |
| Date: |
12 Apr 2004 10:27:56 PM |
| Object: |
Brace for it |
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup
trucks for the room mate, and both Toyota & GMC
appear to have removed the fuel economy ratings
for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry
isn't expecting gas prices to fall...
.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 09:44:06 AM |
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<alt.politics.homosexuality snipped - wtf?>
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:27:56 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
ejaculated:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.
Buy diesel. Volkswagen's TDI engine posts EPA ratings of 50 MPG with
enough torque to the blow the doors of all those V-8 SUVs huffing and
puffing up steep inclines.
American fascination with fuel inefficient vehicles as a symbol of
status really has to end. The irony is that the moron complaining
about spending $60 to fill up his Ford Excursion is one of the same
people driving up the price by using so much fuel.
--
"You claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why, then, are you so surprised when you hear your own eulogy?"
- Tool, "Eulogy"
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 05:02:00 AM |
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In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup
trucks for the room mate, and both Toyota & GMC
appear to have removed the fuel economy ratings
for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry
isn't expecting gas prices to fall...
Well, in that case, I can feel pretty safe in being smug. My Honda
Insight is doing quite well, getting just over 60 mpg. Looks like just
for once, I've made a pretty good purchasing decision.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 01:28:10 AM |
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In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup
trucks for the room mate, and both Toyota & GMC
appear to have removed the fuel economy ratings
for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry
isn't expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't keep
the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota Prius is
six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and
pickups is also up. Go figure.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, but in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 05:06:35 AM |
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In article <jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com>,
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup
trucks for the room mate, and both Toyota & GMC
appear to have removed the fuel economy ratings
for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry
isn't expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't keep
the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota Prius is
six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and
pickups is also up. Go figure.
Anyone who can afford 50-60 grand for a Hummer doesn't give a ***** about
spending 40-50 bucks a pop to fill it up. They'd rather have their
status symbols and enjoy the sensation of looking down on our hybrids
from on high.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 02:47:20 PM |
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"*nemo*" <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote
Anyone who can afford 50-60 grand for a Hummer
That's not a "Real" Hummer. That's the H2, which is a GMC
with "Cool" Hummer-like sheet metal.
The last "Real" Hummer I saw listed for over $100K.
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 04:36:13 PM |
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In article <uPqdndiGnucj3-HdRVn-sw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
"*nemo*" <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote
Anyone who can afford 50-60 grand for a Hummer
That's not a "Real" Hummer. That's the H2, which is a GMC
with "Cool" Hummer-like sheet metal.
The last "Real" Hummer I saw listed for over $100K.
Regardless... they all suck gas like a dehydrated dromedary.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
14 Apr 2004 01:01:53 AM |
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In article <nemo0037-040815.06063513042004@news02.east.earthlink.net>,
*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
In article <jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com>,
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup
trucks for the room mate, and both Toyota & GMC
appear to have removed the fuel economy ratings
for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry
isn't expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't keep
the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota Prius is
six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and
pickups is also up. Go figure.
Anyone who can afford 50-60 grand for a Hummer doesn't give a ***** about
spending 40-50 bucks a pop to fill it up. They'd rather have their
status symbols and enjoy the sensation of looking down on our hybrids
from on high.
True, the rich will always have their big status symbols, but some of
the middle or poorer class drivers may think twice next time that they
buy a new car.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, but in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "Brainfried" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 07:35:59 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:06:35 +0000, *nemo* wrote:
In article <jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com>,
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup
trucks for the room mate, and both Toyota & GMC
appear to have removed the fuel economy ratings
for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry
isn't expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't keep
the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota Prius is
six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and
pickups is also up. Go figure.
Anyone who can afford 50-60 grand for a Hummer doesn't give a ***** about
spending 40-50 bucks a pop to fill it up. They'd rather have their
status symbols and enjoy the sensation of looking down on our hybrids
from on high.
And how are they doing that? . . . huge tax incentives to buy such big
vehicles. The goverment, err, the taxpayer is helping to pay for those
vehicles.
http://www.taxpayer.net/TCS/whitepapers/SUVtaxbreak.htm
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/104601_hummer17.shtml
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 02:57:10 PM |
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"Brainfried" <obfusc8ed@remove-this.hotmail.com> wrote
And how are they doing that? . . . huge tax incentives to
buy such big vehicles. The goverment, err, the taxpayer
is helping to pay for those vehicles.
It's a loophole for those persecuted business owners, 60%
of which never pay a single dime in taxes.
The cost of commerical vehicals are not only subtracted from
a businesses profits, but the business is allowed to depreciate
the vehical. That means they take thousands upon thousands of
dollars off of next years taxes (and the next year... and the next)
because the vehicle "Depreciated" in value.
This is why those *Huge* pickup trucks with the four back tires
are so popular, and things like the Hummer. They're just heavy
enough so that you can not only deduct them as a business
expense, but you can depreciate them.
Last I heard, the final cost of a Hummer to a business owner,
when the tax right-offs are taken into account, is under $30K.
Of course, we're talking about a $100,000 vehicle, and it's
almost a certainty that the book value is worth a great deal
more than the final cost.
After two or three years you're almost certain to have *Equity*
in your "Commercial Vehicle," assuming you chose a vehicle
with taxes in mind and not actual commercial applications.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 08:43:55 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:06:35 GMT the ET form known as
*nemo*<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> sent a radio signal across the
vast expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
Anyone who can afford 50-60 grand for a Hummer doesn't give a ***** about
spending 40-50 bucks a pop to fill it up. They'd rather have their
status symbols and enjoy the sensation of looking down on our hybrids
from on high.
As I heard a Rolls Royce salesman say once "if you want to know the
petrol mileage you can not afford a Rolls".
--
epicurus1*at*optusnet*dot*com*dot*au
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943
.
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| User: "Matt" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
14 Apr 2004 01:45:22 AM |
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Meteorite Debris wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:06:35 GMT the ET form known as
*nemo*<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> sent a radio signal across the
vast expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
Anyone who can afford 50-60 grand for a Hummer doesn't give a ***** about
spending 40-50 bucks a pop to fill it up. They'd rather have their
status symbols and enjoy the sensation of looking down on our hybrids
from on high.
As I heard a Rolls Royce salesman say once "if you want to know the
petrol mileage you can not afford a Rolls".
I think the quotation is:
"If you need to know the price, you can't afford it", which was in
relation to the new Rolls that was released IIRC 2003.
Matt
--
http://home.iprimus.com.au/matgarnz
"You don't have to live next to me, Just give me my
equality" - Nina Simone (Mississippi *****)
"Atheism is a non-prophet organisation" - Anonymous
"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a
statistic." - Joseph Stalin
"Death solves all problems - no man, no problem." -
Joseph Stalin
"There are no morals in politics; there is only
expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just
because he is a scoundrel." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
.
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| User: "uncleward" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 04:06:15 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:06:35 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
In article <jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com>,
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily
in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the
little 1.5 liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup
trucks for the room mate, and both Toyota & GMC
appear to have removed the fuel economy ratings
for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry
isn't expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't keep
the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota Prius is
six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and
pickups is also up. Go figure.
Anyone who can afford 50-60 grand for a Hummer doesn't give a ***** about
spending 40-50 bucks a pop to fill it up. They'd rather have their
status symbols and enjoy the sensation of looking down on our hybrids
from on high.
It musty be noted that Governor Gropenfuhrer owned six or eight of the
things and that his FIRST act in Sacramento was to veto the weight tax
on automobiles == what a SCHMUCK!
ward
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Bush/Cheney '04: Because you don't change horsemen mid-Apocalypse.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 09:25:51 AM |
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:28:10 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero johac
<jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its replacement, the
Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the little 1.5 liter
engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup trucks for the room
mate, and both Toyota & GMC appear to have removed the fuel economy
ratings for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry isn't
expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't keep
the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota Prius is six
months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and pickups
is also up. Go figure.
I have read (no cites, sorry) that we're actually no where *near the level
that would start inducing people to seriously start switching to smaller
cars. IIRC, the price would have to pass about $2.80 a gallon (national
average, not just CA) just to reach the (inflation adjusted) level of the
'70s crunch.
Despite the squawking going on, gas is still quite *cheap here. We'd have
to hit almost double the current national average to reach an actual
"crisis" level and see people switching to small cars again...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
13 Apr 2004 02:58:42 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote
I have read (no cites, sorry) that we're actually no where
*near the level that would start inducing people to
seriously start switching to smaller cars. IIRC, the price
would have to pass about $2.80 a gallon (national
average, not just CA) just to reach the (inflation adjusted)
level of the '70s crunch.
Ask yourself: Do the auto makers know that? And, if so,
should I be worried about the future?
I'd have to answer "Yes" to both questions...
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
14 Apr 2004 12:58:20 AM |
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In article <pan.2004.04.13.14.25.50.436751@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:28:10 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero johac
<jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily in small cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its replacement, the
Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the little 1.5 liter
engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup trucks for the room
mate, and both Toyota & GMC appear to have removed the fuel economy
ratings for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry isn't
expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't keep
the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota Prius is six
months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and pickups
is also up. Go figure.
I have read (no cites, sorry) that we're actually no where *near the level
that would start inducing people to seriously start switching to smaller
cars. IIRC, the price would have to pass about $2.80 a gallon (national
average, not just CA) just to reach the (inflation adjusted) level of the
'70s crunch.
I guess it depends on how much you drive too. Just to drive around town
doesn't burn that much gas so it wouldn't make that much difference.
However, for the person who drives forty, fifty, or sixty miles to work
each day, the difference would add up fairly fast
Despite the squawking going on, gas is still quite *cheap here. We'd have
to hit almost double the current national average to reach an actual
"crisis" level and see people switching to small cars again...
The other possibility is if there is some disruption in the oil supply,
due to a full scale war in the Middle East involving several oil
producers or or a terrorism campaign against refineries, we may see
shortages. I remember the gas lines back in the '70's. After that there
was a big push to smaller, more fuel efficient cars.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, but in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
14 Apr 2004 09:58:09 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:58:20 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-7BE005.22582013042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero johac
<jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <pan.2004.04.13.14.25.50.436751@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:28:10 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily in small cars
again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its replacement, the
Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the little 1.5 liter
engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup trucks for the room
mate, and both Toyota & GMC appear to have removed the fuel economy
ratings for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry isn't
expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't
keep the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota
Prius is six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and
pickups is also up. Go figure.
I have read (no cites, sorry) that we're actually no where *near the
level that would start inducing people to seriously start switching to
smaller cars. IIRC, the price would have to pass about $2.80 a gallon
(national average, not just CA) just to reach the (inflation adjusted)
level of the '70s crunch.
I guess it depends on how much you drive too. Just to drive around town
doesn't burn that much gas so it wouldn't make that much difference.
However, for the person who drives forty, fifty, or sixty miles to work
each day, the difference would add up fairly fast
Despite the squawking going on, gas is still quite *cheap here. We'd
have to hit almost double the current national average to reach an
actual "crisis" level and see people switching to small cars again...
The other possibility is if there is some disruption in the oil supply,
due to a full scale war in the Middle East involving several oil producers
or or a terrorism campaign against refineries, we may see shortages. I
remember the gas lines back in the '70's. After that there was a big push
to smaller, more fuel efficient cars.
That's where I was getting the number (though I'd have to go digging for
the article). That the inflation adjusted price of gas during the '70s
crisis would be almost twice current levels in today's dollars.
And surveys have shown that while everybody is bitching, *nobody is
changing their driving behavior. Obviously, we're no where near a crisis
level. Or even a "drive a little less" level...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Brace for it |
15 Apr 2004 12:48:15 AM |
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In article <pan.2004.04.14.14.58.08.464412@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:58:20 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-7BE005.22582013042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero johac
<jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <pan.2004.04.13.14.25.50.436751@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:28:10 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily in small cars
again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its replacement, the
Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the little 1.5 liter
engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup trucks for the room
mate, and both Toyota & GMC appear to have removed the fuel economy
ratings for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry isn't
expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't
keep the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota
Prius is six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and
pickups is also up. Go figure.
I have read (no cites, sorry) that we're actually no where *near the
level that would start inducing people to seriously start switching to
smaller cars. IIRC, the price would have to pass about $2.80 a gallon
(national average, not just CA) just to reach the (inflation adjusted)
level of the '70s crunch.
I guess it depends on how much you drive too. Just to drive around town
doesn't burn that much gas so it wouldn't make that much difference.
However, for the person who drives forty, fifty, or sixty miles to work
each day, the difference would add up fairly fast
Despite the squawking going on, gas is still quite *cheap here. We'd
have to hit almost double the current national average to reach an
actual "crisis" level and see people switching to small cars again...
The other possibility is if there is some disruption in the oil supply,
due to a full scale war in the Middle East involving several oil producers
or or a terrorism campaign against refineries, we may see shortages. I
remember the gas lines back in the '70's. After that there was a big push
to smaller, more fuel efficient cars.
That's where I was getting the number (though I'd have to go digging for
the article). That the inflation adjusted price of gas during the '70s
crisis would be almost twice current levels in today's dollars.
And surveys have shown that while everybody is bitching, *nobody is
changing their driving behavior. Obviously, we're no where near a crisis
level. Or even a "drive a little less" level...
Part of the problem is that America has developed a culture and
lifestyle that makes owning a car a necessity. No one wants to live in
cities anymore. We live in sprawling suburbs where even obtining the
necessities, food, medical attention, school, work, require travelling
long distances that make driving mandatory. Where I live in California,
public transportation is rudimentary at best. I remeber growing up in
New York City in the '40s and '50s. Public transportation was fast,
efficient, safe, and cheap. My dad, like many others, only used his car
on weekends, mainly for family outings. I didn;t have a car until well
into my twenties. I felt that I didn't need one, and was better off
without one. Times have changed. Fuel efficient cars and conservation
are good, but what else is needed is better urban planning and a
campaign to get people to back public transportation again.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, but in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
15 Apr 2004 09:13:43 AM |
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On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:48:15 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-01DFC5.22481514042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero johac
<jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <pan.2004.04.14.14.58.08.464412@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:58:20 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-7BE005.22582013042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <pan.2004.04.13.14.25.50.436751@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:28:10 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily in small cars
again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its replacement,
the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the little 1.5
liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup trucks for the
room mate, and both Toyota & GMC appear to have removed the fuel
economy ratings for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry isn't
expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't
keep the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota
Prius is six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and
pickups is also up. Go figure.
I have read (no cites, sorry) that we're actually no where *near the
level that would start inducing people to seriously start switching
to smaller cars. IIRC, the price would have to pass about $2.80 a
gallon (national average, not just CA) just to reach the (inflation
adjusted) level of the '70s crunch.
I guess it depends on how much you drive too. Just to drive around
town doesn't burn that much gas so it wouldn't make that much
difference. However, for the person who drives forty, fifty, or sixty
miles to work each day, the difference would add up fairly fast
Despite the squawking going on, gas is still quite *cheap here. We'd
have to hit almost double the current national average to reach an
actual "crisis" level and see people switching to small cars again...
The other possibility is if there is some disruption in the oil
supply, due to a full scale war in the Middle East involving several
oil producers or or a terrorism campaign against refineries, we may
see shortages. I remember the gas lines back in the '70's. After that
there was a big push to smaller, more fuel efficient cars.
That's where I was getting the number (though I'd have to go digging for
the article). That the inflation adjusted price of gas during the '70s
crisis would be almost twice current levels in today's dollars.
And surveys have shown that while everybody is bitching, *nobody is
changing their driving behavior. Obviously, we're no where near a crisis
level. Or even a "drive a little less" level...
Part of the problem is that America has developed a culture and lifestyle
that makes owning a car a necessity. No one wants to live in cities
anymore. We live in sprawling suburbs where even obtining the necessities,
food, medical attention, school, work, require travelling long distances
that make driving mandatory. Where I live in California, public
transportation is rudimentary at best. I remeber growing up in New York
City in the '40s and '50s. Public transportation was fast, efficient,
safe, and cheap. My dad, like many others, only used his car on weekends,
mainly for family outings. I didn;t have a car until well into my
twenties. I felt that I didn't need one, and was better off without one.
Times have changed. Fuel efficient cars and conservation are good, but
what else is needed is better urban planning and a campaign to get people
to back public transportation again.
That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
15 Apr 2004 02:56:21 PM |
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That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth, safe,
fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. You lack vision, but I see a
place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day,
all night. Soon, where Los Angeles once stood will be a string of gas stations,
inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire salons,
automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as
the eye can see.
My God, it'll be beautiful.
:}
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Brace for it |
19 Apr 2004 09:02:50 AM |
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On 15 Apr 2004 19:56:21 GMT, forlornh@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert)
ejaculated:
That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth, safe,
fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. You lack vision, but I see a
place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day,
all night. Soon, where Los Angeles once stood will be a string of gas stations,
inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire salons,
automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as
the eye can see.
My God, it'll be beautiful.
:}
I love driving on the 5 when I'm in LA. Of course, I don't drive
during rush hour. I tried to get to West Hollywood *once* during rush
hour...on a Friday...it was a bad idea. </understatement>
--
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
- Benjamin Franklin
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: Brace for it |
19 Apr 2004 05:37:38 PM |
|
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:02:50 -0400 in episode
<6um7801p6mtsd4ulnj1e52sfucq8i8t1t9@4ax.com> we saw our hero Beowulf
<beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com>:
On 15 Apr 2004 19:56:21 GMT, forlornh@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert)
ejaculated:
That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth,
safe, fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. You lack vision,
but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off,
off and on all day, all night. Soon, where Los Angeles once stood will be
a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve
rapidly prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful,
wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see.
My God, it'll be beautiful.
:}
I love driving on the 5 when I'm in LA. Of course, I don't drive during
rush hour. I tried to get to West Hollywood *once* during rush hour...on
a Friday...it was a bad idea. </understatement>
What do you mean "rush hour?" Are you trying to imply there are actual
hours the traffic isn't almost totally stopped dead on the 5? Please! Next
you'll try to tell me there are times the 405 isn't jammed around the
airport...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: Re: Brace for it |
20 Apr 2004 09:12:04 AM |
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:37:38 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<y@hoo.com-amikchi> ejaculated:
I love driving on the 5 when I'm in LA. Of course, I don't drive during
rush hour. I tried to get to West Hollywood *once* during rush hour...on
a Friday...it was a bad idea. </understatement>
What do you mean "rush hour?" Are you trying to imply there are actual
hours the traffic isn't almost totally stopped dead on the 5?
That's what I was trying to imply, yes, but upon reflection, I think I
was mistaken. I think I was talking about the 405.
Please! Next
you'll try to tell me there are times the 405 isn't jammed around the
airport...
In my limited experience, yes. I've been on the 405 when traffic was
moving along nicely at 90 MPH.
--
"Swaying to the rhythm of the new world order and
Count the bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums"
-- A Perfect Circle, "Pet"
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Brace for it |
20 Apr 2004 12:53:20 PM |
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On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:12:04 -0400 in episode
<bqba80tb9bu6o62v03grm6nl3u07ammp39@4ax.com> we saw our hero Beowulf
<beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com>:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:37:38 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>
ejaculated:
I love driving on the 5 when I'm in LA. Of course, I don't drive
during rush hour. I tried to get to West Hollywood *once* during rush
hour...on a Friday...it was a bad idea. </understatement>
What do you mean "rush hour?" Are you trying to imply there are actual
hours the traffic isn't almost totally stopped dead on the 5?
That's what I was trying to imply, yes, but upon reflection, I think I was
mistaken. I think I was talking about the 405.
Please! Next
you'll try to tell me there are times the 405 isn't jammed around the
airport...
In my limited experience, yes. I've been on the 405 when traffic was
moving along nicely at 90 MPH.
Oh like I'd fall for that!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Brace for it |
22 Apr 2004 02:17:05 PM |
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On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:53:20 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>,
Message ID: <pan.2004.04.20.17.53.19.648318@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:12:04 -0400 in episode
<bqba80tb9bu6o62v03grm6nl3u07ammp39@4ax.com> we saw our hero Beowulf
<beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com>:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:37:38 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>
ejaculated:
I love driving on the 5 when I'm in LA. Of course, I don't drive
during rush hour. I tried to get to West Hollywood *once* during rush
hour...on a Friday...it was a bad idea. </understatement>
What do you mean "rush hour?" Are you trying to imply there are actual
hours the traffic isn't almost totally stopped dead on the 5?
That's what I was trying to imply, yes, but upon reflection, I think I was
mistaken. I think I was talking about the 405.
Please! Next
you'll try to tell me there are times the 405 isn't jammed around the
airport...
In my limited experience, yes. I've been on the 405 when traffic was
moving along nicely at 90 MPH.
Oh like I'd fall for that!
rrrroooooolllllllllliiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
15 Apr 2004 04:59:24 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:56:21 +0000 in episode
<20040415155621.01314.00000419@mb-m14.aol.com> we saw our hero
forlornh@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert):
That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth,
safe, fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. You lack vision, but
I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and
on all day, all night. Soon, where Los Angeles once stood will be a string
of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly
prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful,
wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see.
My God, it'll be beautiful.
Sounds like the, ahem, actual plans for the 5. I think the city I was
living in was slated to be leveled. Some of the plans called for the thing
to be some twelve or more lanes wide. Which would have put the exit ramp
in my kitchen...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
17 Apr 2004 10:29:11 PM |
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:59:24 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>,
Message ID: <pan.2004.04.15.21.59.23.600554@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:56:21 +0000 in episode
<20040415155621.01314.00000419@mb-m14.aol.com> we saw our hero
forlornh@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert):
That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth,
safe, fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. You lack vision, but
I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and
on all day, all night. Soon, where Los Angeles once stood will be a string
of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly
prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful,
wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see.
My God, it'll be beautiful.
Sounds like the, ahem, actual plans for the 5. I think the city I was
living in was slated to be leveled. Some of the plans called for the thing
to be some twelve or more lanes wide. Which would have put the exit ramp
in my kitchen...
Grand Opening of "Mark's Kitchen." Easy access from I-5, simply exit
and stop at the kitchen window.......
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Brace for it |
18 Apr 2004 09:44:15 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:29:11 -0700 in episode
<kji2801dpinps0i3p3l3pkkjhb6cu3l138@4ax.com> we saw our hero stoney
<stoney@the.net>:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:59:24 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>,
Message ID: <pan.2004.04.15.21.59.23.600554@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:56:21 +0000 in episode
<20040415155621.01314.00000419@mb-m14.aol.com> we saw our hero
forlornh@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert):
That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth,
safe, fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. You lack vision,
but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off,
off and on all day, all night. Soon, where Los Angeles once stood will
be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve
rapidly prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and
wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see.
My God, it'll be beautiful.
Sounds like the, ahem, actual plans for the 5. I think the city I was
living in was slated to be leveled. Some of the plans called for the
thing to be some twelve or more lanes wide. Which would have put the exit
ramp in my kitchen...
Grand Opening of "Mark's Kitchen." Easy access from I-5, simply exit and
stop at the kitchen window.......
Sorry, no stopping on the shoulder!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
|
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Brace for it |
20 Apr 2004 09:10:06 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:44:15 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>,
Message ID: <pan.2004.04.18.14.44.14.673908@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:29:11 -0700 in episode
<kji2801dpinps0i3p3l3pkkjhb6cu3l138@4ax.com> we saw our hero stoney
<stoney@the.net>:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:59:24 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>,
Message ID: <pan.2004.04.15.21.59.23.600554@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:56:21 +0000 in episode
<20040415155621.01314.00000419@mb-m14.aol.com> we saw our hero
forlornh@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert):
That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth,
safe, fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. You lack vision,
but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off,
off and on all day, all night. Soon, where Los Angeles once stood will
be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve
rapidly prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and
wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see.
My God, it'll be beautiful.
Sounds like the, ahem, actual plans for the 5. I think the city I was
living in was slated to be leveled. Some of the plans called for the
thing to be some twelve or more lanes wide. Which would have put the exit
ramp in my kitchen...
Grand Opening of "Mark's Kitchen." Easy access from I-5, simply exit and
stop at the kitchen window.......
Sorry, no stopping on the shoulder!
except in an emergency.......emergency coffee and donut.....
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
|
|
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Brace for it |
16 Apr 2004 01:23:09 AM |
|
|
In article <pan.2004.04.15.14.13.42.584667@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:48:15 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-01DFC5.22481514042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero johac
<jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <pan.2004.04.14.14.58.08.464412@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:58:20 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-7BE005.22582013042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <pan.2004.04.13.14.25.50.436751@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:28:10 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily in small cars
again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its replacement,
the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the little 1.5
liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup trucks for the
room mate, and both Toyota & GMC appear to have removed the fuel
economy ratings for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry isn't
expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers can't
keep the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the Toyota
Prius is six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs and
pickups is also up. Go figure.
I have read (no cites, sorry) that we're actually no where *near the
level that would start inducing people to seriously start switching
to smaller cars. IIRC, the price would have to pass about $2.80 a
gallon (national average, not just CA) just to reach the (inflation
adjusted) level of the '70s crunch.
I guess it depends on how much you drive too. Just to drive around
town doesn't burn that much gas so it wouldn't make that much
difference. However, for the person who drives forty, fifty, or sixty
miles to work each day, the difference would add up fairly fast
Despite the squawking going on, gas is still quite *cheap here. We'd
have to hit almost double the current national average to reach an
actual "crisis" level and see people switching to small cars again...
The other possibility is if there is some disruption in the oil
supply, due to a full scale war in the Middle East involving several
oil producers or or a terrorism campaign against refineries, we may
see shortages. I remember the gas lines back in the '70's. After that
there was a big push to smaller, more fuel efficient cars.
That's where I was getting the number (though I'd have to go digging for
the article). That the inflation adjusted price of gas during the '70s
crisis would be almost twice current levels in today's dollars.
And surveys have shown that while everybody is bitching, *nobody is
changing their driving behavior. Obviously, we're no where near a crisis
level. Or even a "drive a little less" level...
Part of the problem is that America has developed a culture and lifestyle
that makes owning a car a necessity. No one wants to live in cities
anymore. We live in sprawling suburbs where even obtining the necessities,
food, medical attention, school, work, require travelling long distances
that make driving mandatory. Where I live in California, public
transportation is rudimentary at best. I remeber growing up in New York
City in the '40s and '50s. Public transportation was fast, efficient,
safe, and cheap. My dad, like many others, only used his car on weekends,
mainly for family outings. I didn;t have a car until well into my
twenties. I felt that I didn't need one, and was better off without one.
Times have changed. Fuel efficient cars and conservation are good, but
what else is needed is better urban planning and a campaign to get people
to back public transportation again.
That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
The same goes for the San Diego city council and the County planners.
New houses going up everywhere, but no new roads and no public
transportation.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, but in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Brace for it |
16 Apr 2004 10:35:11 AM |
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:23:09 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-336AE3.23230915042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero johac
<jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <pan.2004.04.15.14.13.42.584667@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:48:15 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-01DFC5.22481514042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <pan.2004.04.14.14.58.08.464412@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:58:20 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-7BE005.22582013042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our hero
johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <pan.2004.04.13.14.25.50.436751@hoo.com-amikchi>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:28:10 -0700 in episode
<jhachm-08CDE2.23281012042004@news-60.giganews.com> we saw our
hero johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>:
In article <VPudnS8-bMquwObdRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
The big auto makers are suddenly investing heavily in small
cars again.
Chevy is even retiring the Cavalier and calling its
replacement, the Cobalt, a "premium small car."
Toyota has an all-new product line, Scion, with the little 1.5
liter engine.
I just did a little comparison shopping on pickup trucks for
the room mate, and both Toyota & GMC appear to have removed the
fuel economy ratings for their smaller trucks with the V6.
MPG: NA
If I didn't know any better I'd say that the auto industry
isn't expecting gas prices to fall...
According to a San Diego TV report last weekend, the dealers
can't keep the new hybrids on the lots. The waiting list for the
Toyota Prius is six months, and it's almost as bad for the Honda
version.
However, incongruously, the demand for big, gas guzzling, SUVs
and pickups is also up. Go figure.
I have read (no cites, sorry) that we're actually no where *near
the level that would start inducing people to seriously start
switching to smaller cars. IIRC, the price would have to pass
about $2.80 a gallon (national average, not just CA) just to reach
the (inflation adjusted) level of the '70s crunch.
I guess it depends on how much you drive too. Just to drive around
town doesn't burn that much gas so it wouldn't make that much
difference. However, for the person who drives forty, fifty, or
sixty miles to work each day, the difference would add up fairly
fast
Despite the squawking going on, gas is still quite *cheap here.
We'd have to hit almost double the current national average to
reach an actual "crisis" level and see people switching to small
cars again...
The other possibility is if there is some disruption in the oil
supply, due to a full scale war in the Middle East involving
several oil producers or or a terrorism campaign against
refineries, we may see shortages. I remember the gas lines back in
the '70's. After that there was a big push to smaller, more fuel
efficient cars.
That's where I was getting the number (though I'd have to go digging
for the article). That the inflation adjusted price of gas during the
'70s crisis would be almost twice current levels in today's dollars.
And surveys have shown that while everybody is bitching, *nobody is
changing their driving behavior. Obviously, we're no where near a
crisis level. Or even a "drive a little less" level...
Part of the problem is that America has developed a culture and
lifestyle that makes owning a car a necessity. No one wants to live in
cities anymore. We live in sprawling suburbs where even obtining the
necessities, food, medical attention, school, work, require travelling
long distances that make driving mandatory. Where I live in
California, public transportation is rudimentary at best. I remeber
growing up in New York City in the '40s and '50s. Public
transportation was fast, efficient, safe, and cheap. My dad, like many
others, only used his car on weekends, mainly for family outings. I
didn;t have a car until well into my twenties. I felt that I didn't
need one, and was better off without one. Times have changed. Fuel
efficient cars and conservation are good, but what else is needed is
better urban planning and a campaign to get people to back public
transportation again.
That and have the MTA in LA county arrested and put on trial.
(400 miles of track promised, they produced about 60 then sank about 7
billion into a two foot long subway...)
The same goes for the San Diego city council and the County planners. New
houses going up everywhere, but no new roads and no public transportation.
I love the part where everybody in LA seems to want new freeways. Just
nowhere near their house.
I'm still trying to figure out how that works...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
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