| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Anonymous Sender" |
| Date: |
22 Sep 2003 04:26:00 PM |
| Object: |
Brain Trots |
I'm probably more of an intellectual heavyweight that many of you are, but
still I have what I believe to be an interesting question to ask of you.
As humans, we are highly evolved and complex electro chemical machines.
Like
a computer we have fixed programming in our DNA and space for our
programming to expand in our mass of synaptic pathways which change as we
grow older and also through external events, life trauma and physical
trauma
to which we are subjected and subsequently subject ourselves during our
life.
If you accept that our genetic makeup along with our life event experiences
bring about our current programming at any one point along the timeline.
Then in the absence of any other factors, is it now this fact alone which
causes us to take actions when God is the subject ?
So then, if one man shoots another, who is to blame?
You may say that we have free will and have exercised it, but is this not
simply a decision made based on our programming?
If so who/what is responsible for that, and should not they/it be held
reponsible ? And if so when is to early to confess to God we were
wrong to dout in his state of affairs ?
.
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| User: "Appelonius" |
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| Title: Re: Brain Trots |
22 Sep 2003 04:52:28 PM |
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"Anonymous Sender" <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:48ca88c1a1b5167b899c7a4464c67f39@remailer.metacolo.com...
I'm probably more of an intellectual heavyweight that many of you are,
Not to mention being so very modest.
If you accept that our genetic makeup along with our life event
experiences
bring about our current programming at any one point along the timeline.
Then in the absence of any other factors, is it now this fact alone
which
causes us to take actions when God is the subject ?
So then, if one man shoots another, who is to blame?
You may say that we have free will and have exercised it, but is this not
simply a decision made based on our programming?
If so who/what is responsible for that, and should not they/it be held
reponsible ? And if so when is to early to confess to God we were
wrong to dout in his state of affairs ?
We're all more than the sum of our parts. You can break down anything into
the smallest pieces and analyze how it works, but then you run into the
danger of, as they say, not being able to see the forest for the trees.
You can say that we are influenced by our genetic makeup, or by the way we
were brought up, and you can break down our feeling into chemicals attaching
themselves to receptors in our brains. But all that doesn't mean that we're
atomatons that are forced to follow one set path.
It's like when you add Vinegar to Baking Soda, you get a reaction that is
more than you'd expect. Genetics and the electro-chemical makeup of our
brain may be parts of what make us who we are, but when it's all put
together we're more than that, we're sentient beings.
To answer your question, everybody is responsible for their own actions, and
it's not "simply a decision made based on our programming".
.
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: Brain Trots |
23 Sep 2003 05:43:23 PM |
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"Appelonius" <noneofyourbuseness@myemail.com> wrote in message
news:vmurrbfp9eqpb9@corp.supernews.com...
"Anonymous Sender" <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:48ca88c1a1b5167b899c7a4464c67f39@remailer.metacolo.com...
I'm probably more of an intellectual heavyweight that many of you are,
Not to mention being so very modest.
Especially considering the grammatical and spelling mistakes prevalent in
his post. I'm not one for flaming such errors, but his message begs it when
he starts it off in such a manner.
If you accept that our genetic makeup along with our life event
experiences
bring about our current programming at any one point along the timeline.
Then in the absence of any other factors, is it now this fact alone
which
causes us to take actions when God is the subject ?
So then, if one man shoots another, who is to blame?
You may say that we have free will and have exercised it, but is this
not
simply a decision made based on our programming?
If so who/what is responsible for that, and should not they/it be held
reponsible ? And if so when is to early to confess to God we were
wrong to dout in his state of affairs ?
We're all more than the sum of our parts. You can break down anything
into
the smallest pieces and analyze how it works, but then you run into the
danger of, as they say, not being able to see the forest for the trees.
You can say that we are influenced by our genetic makeup, or by the way we
were brought up, and you can break down our feeling into chemicals
attaching
themselves to receptors in our brains. But all that doesn't mean that
we're
atomatons that are forced to follow one set path.
It's like when you add Vinegar to Baking Soda, you get a reaction that is
more than you'd expect. Genetics and the electro-chemical makeup of our
brain may be parts of what make us who we are, but when it's all put
together we're more than that, we're sentient beings.
To answer your question, everybody is responsible for their own actions,
and
it's not "simply a decision made based on our programming".
.
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| User: "Dr DuFunny" |
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| Title: Re: Brain Trots |
22 Sep 2003 05:02:50 PM |
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"Anonymous Sender" <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:48ca88c1a1b5167b899c7a4464c67f39@remailer.metacolo.com...
I'm probably more of an intellectual heavyweight that many of you are, but
still I have what I believe to be an interesting question to ask of you.
As humans, we are highly evolved and complex electro chemical machines.
Like
a computer we have fixed programming in our DNA and space for our
programming to expand in our mass of synaptic pathways which change as we
grow older and also through external events, life trauma and physical
trauma
to which we are subjected and subsequently subject ourselves during our
life.
If you accept that our genetic makeup along with our life event
experiences
bring about our current programming at any one point along the timeline.
Then in the absence of any other factors, is it now this fact alone
which
causes us to take actions when God is the subject ?
So then, if one man shoots another, who is to blame?
You may say that we have free will and have exercised it, but is this not
simply a decision made based on our programming?
If so who/what is responsible for that, and should not they/it be held
reponsible ? And if so when is to early to confess to God we were
wrong to dout in his state of affairs ?
Since you're obviously a genius you are out of my league.
.
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| User: "Bob Dog" |
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| Title: Re: Brain Trots |
24 Sep 2003 08:24:07 AM |
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Anonymous Sender <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message news:<48ca88c1a1b5167b899c7a4464c67f39@remailer.metacolo.com>...
I'm probably more of an intellectual heavyweight that many of you are,
"Trots" is slang for diarrhea. How utterly appropriate for you.
Bob Dog
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| User: "SickleRider" |
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| Title: Re: Brain Trots |
22 Sep 2003 05:32:31 PM |
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Anonymous Sender wrote:
I'm probably more of an intellectual heavyweight that many of you
are, but
still I have what I believe to be an interesting question to ask of
you. As humans, we are highly evolved and complex electro chemical
machines. Like
a computer we have fixed programming in our DNA and space for our
programming to expand in our mass of synaptic pathways which change
as we grow older and also through external events, life trauma and
physical trauma
to which we are subjected and subsequently subject ourselves during
our life.
If you accept that our genetic makeup along with our life event
experiences bring about our current programming at any one point
along the timeline.
Then in the absence of any other factors, is it now this fact
alone which causes us to take actions when God is the subject ?
So then, if one man shoots another, who is to blame?
You may say that we have free will and have exercised it, but is
this not simply a decision made based on our programming?
If so who/what is responsible for that, and should not they/it be
held reponsible ? And if so when is to early to confess to God we
were wrong to dout in his state of affairs ?
Your answer is here...
http://www.rense.com/general42/brain.htm
.
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| User: "Eagle29 to email, remove the at and dot " |
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| Title: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 07:12:53 PM |
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In article <48ca88c1a1b5167b899c7a4464c67f39
@remailer.metacolo.com>,
anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com says...
I'm probably more of an intellectual heavyweight that
many of you are,
So much for humility.
Prov 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, a haughty
spirit before a fall.
Prov 16:19 Better to be lowly in spirit and among the
oppressed than to share plunder with the proud.
but still I have what I believe to be an interesting question to
ask of you.
As humans, we are highly evolved and complex electro chemical
machines. Like a computer we have fixed programming in our DNA
and space for our programming to expand in our mass of synaptic
pathways which change as we grow older and also through external
events, life trauma and physical trauma to which we are subjected
and subsequently subject ourselves during our life.
If you accept that our genetic makeup along with our life event
experiences bring about our current programming at any
one point along the timeline.
Then in the absence of any other factors, is it now this fact
alone which causes us to take actions when God is the subject?
you're question is based on your false premise.
That premise being that we can only respond as we are
'programmed', and are thus robots, automatons with no
freedom of choice and no ability to think on our own.
Only an idiot would draw such a conclusion based on
their 'life event experiences' and state it as a
premise as if it was fact.
God gave us Laws in the Old Covenant through Christ the
Rock, the God who spoke to and showed Himself to Moses.
That same God upheld and even RAISED the standards of
OBEDIENCE to those Laws for ALL who would gain Eternal
Life.
The same God who showed Himself to His Servants in the
Old Testament, showed Himself to His Servants in the
New. (Exo 3:2-6,3:14-16, 24:7-11, John 6:46, 1 Tim
6:16, 1 Cor 10:3-4)
That God COMMANDS us to OBEY His Laws and REPENT.
God doesn't tell ROBOTS who have NO FREE WILL and who
are INCAPABLE of thinking on their own to REPENT and
make a CHOICE to do what is right, instead of what is
wrong.
So then, if one man shoots another, who is to blame?
The man who shot the other, is to blame.
You may say that we have free will and have exercised it,
but is this not simply a decision made based on our programming?
your 'description' of programming assumes that the man
had no choice but to shoot the other man.
In fact, your whole 'argument' IMPLIES that The Lord
God is TO BLAME FOR ALL THE EVIL ON THIS EARTH.
you made a rather devious argument.
Those who believe in God, usually believe in satan.
Instead of blaming satan, AS GOD DOES, for ALL THE SIN
and ALL THE KILLING that has occurred on earth, YOUR
'argument' implies that GOD IS TO BLAME.
And what does God have to say about those who are to
blame?
Notice that the Jewish 'religious leaders' whom Christ
is excoriating WERE NOT ALIVE PRIOR to have murdered
Abel and all those Servants of God who preceeded
Christ.
So it should be obvious that Christ was NOT ADDRESSING
the MEN, but 'others'.
Who are those 'others'?
It is that 'generation' whom Christ spoke against and
about, who are those who ARE GUILTY OF ALL THE
RIGHTEOUS blood that has been shed on earth.
And they ARE guilty of ALL who have been KILLED on the
earth from the beginning.
Why else did people think that God has told us that He
will REPLACE the current RULERS, KINGS and PRIESTS of
THIS EARTH, with those whom HE has chosen?
And they won't be deceived and deceitful liars such as
yourself.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is NOT against flesh and
blood, but against THE RULERS, against the authorities,
against the powers of this dark world and against the
SPIRITUAL forces of evil in the HEAVENLY REALMS.
Cor 2:8 None of THE RULERS OF THIS AGE understood it,
for IF THEY HAD, THEY would NOT have CRUCIFIED the Lord
of Glory.
Mat 23:30 And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of
our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them
in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
Mat 23:31 So you testify against yourselves that you
are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of
your forefathers!
Mat 23:33 "You SNAKES! You brood of VIPERS! HOW WILL
YOU ESCAPE BEING CONDEMNED TO HELL?
Mat 23:34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise
men and teachers. Some of them YOU WILL KILL and
CRUCIFY; others YOU WILL FLOG in your synagogues and
PURSUE from town to town.
Mat 23:35 And so UPON YOU (SNAKES AND VIPERS) will
come ALL THE RIGHTEOUS BLOOD THAT HAS BEEN SHED ON
EARTH, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of
Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between
the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 I tell you the truth, all this will come
upon this GENERATION.
Obviously, that GENERATION whom Christ EXCORIATED were
NOT THE MEN WHOM HE WAS ADDRESSING. They were NOT
'human'.
People say they BELIEVE in God, but yet when bad things
happen, instead of blaming THEMSELVES and their own
SINS, or even SATAN, THEY BLAME GOD?
How STUPID is that? Does God sin? Does God maliciously
hurt people?
Is God as STUPID as you make him out to be as you try
to tell us that He made humans into robots who have NO
FREE WILL and then COMMANDS THEM TO CHANGE and REPENT
of SIN?
Is God as stupid as you make Him out to be, OR ARE YOU?
God says that satan and his angels MURDERED the Lord of
Glory, CHRIST.
Who put the gun to satan's head to FORCE HIM to MURDER
Someone who NEVER SINNED?
Who put the gun to ANYONE's head and FORCED THEM TO
SIN?
If someone did, better to die and let God raise you
back to life, than to save your mortal life, and lose
it and eternal life, FOREVER.
If so who/what is responsible for that, and should
not they/it be held reponsible ?
Everyone is responsible FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS.
Ezek 18:4 For EVERY LIVING soul belongs to me, the
father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The
soul who sins is the one who will die.
And if so when is to early to confess to God we were
wrong to dout in his state of affairs ?
It's never to early to confess your deceit and sins
against God.
When will you confess yours?
Who do you think fed you this line of 'reasoning' which
is actually gross stupidity?
There is a time when IT IS TOO LATE.
Those who refused to listen to Noah, learned that
lesson.
Those who blaspheme God's Holy Spirit, will learn too
late.
Those who have condemned themselves and those who have
BECOME TWICE DEAD, will learn that lesson.
Jude 1:11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of
Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error;
they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.
Jude 1:12 These men are blemishes at your love FEASTS,
eating with you WITHOUT the slightest qualm--SHEPHERDS
WHO FEED ONLY THEMSELVES. They are clouds without rain,
blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit
and UPROOTED (Mat 15:12-14)--TWICE DEAD.
Jude 1:13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up
their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest
darkness has been reserved forever.
Titus 3:11 You may be sure that such a man is warped
and sinful; he is SELF-CONDEMNED.
2 Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in
accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all
kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
2 Th 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives
THOSE WHO ARE PERISHING. They PERISH because they
REFUSED TO LOVE THE TRUTH AND SO BE SAVED.
2 Th 2:11 For THIS REASON God SENDS THEM a POWERFUL
DELUSION so that THEY WILL BELIEVE THE LIE
2 Th 2:12 and SO THAT ALL WILL BE CONDEMEND WHO HAVE
NOT BELIEVED THE TRUTH BUT HAVE DELIGHTED IN
WICKEDNESS.
--
http://www.zionministry.com
Oscar Ayala
Eagle28 at swbell dot net
(Replace at with @ and dot with . and remove spaces)
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| User: "Take Clayton Only As Directed" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 07:37:35 PM |
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"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the "at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the Bible is true
because it's the word of God...and he's such a nice guy" attitude *****>
WHY do the BLEATERS suffer from random BOUTS of caps LOCK abuse?
<plonk> goes the fuckwit!
.
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| User: "Eagle29 to email, remove the at and dot " |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 07:48:56 PM |
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In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
We can't make programs with work FLAWLESSLY.
We don't understand the atom, the universe, or even the
human body enough to design drugs which are NOT WORSE
than the 'cure'.
Human beings are in the process of LEARNING and
UNDERSTANDING the LAWS which GOVERN this universe.
Who put those LAWS together?
Who CREATED all that is?
Human beings can't create as well as THAT WHICH ALREADY
EXISTS, and you 'think'(?) that there is NO CREATOR
GOD?
Is it true that the universe is expanding at an
INCREASING rate?
How can THAT happen?
Entropy requires that CREATION should NEVER HAVE
OCCURRED.
It takes ENERGY to create ORDER out of DISORDER.
Who input the ENERGY to CREATE all that has been made,
the billions of galaxies which contain billions of
stars?
I keep asking this, but are you REALLY THIS STUPID, or
are you just pretending to be?
WHY do the BLEATERS suffer from random BOUTS of caps LOCK abuse?
<plonk> goes the fuckwit!
So much for RATIONAL discourse.
Then again, you proved your IRRATIONALITY in your first
statement.
--
http://www.zionministry.com
Oscar Ayala
Eagle28 at swbell dot net
(Replace at with @ and dot with . and remove spaces)
.
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| User: "Nikolaos D. Bougalis" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
23 Sep 2003 06:23:18 AM |
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"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the "at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
Well, by using the word "creation" you've already demonstrated your
bias. Now, if you only had solid, objective evidence to back up your
assertions.
We can't make programs with work FLAWLESSLY.
Sure we can.
We don't understand the atom, the universe, or even the
human body enough to design drugs which are NOT WORSE
than the 'cure'.
Human beings are in the process of LEARNING and
UNDERSTANDING the LAWS which GOVERN this universe.
OK.
Who put those LAWS together?
They emerged, as the result of the properties of the universe and its
constituents.
Who CREATED all that is?
Sorry. Wrong question.
Human beings can't create as well as THAT WHICH ALREADY
EXISTS, and you 'think'(?) that there is NO CREATOR
GOD?
Your grammar sucks, and it makes it really hard to understand your
"argument" (using the term loosely here). Care to rephrase?
Is it true that the universe is expanding at an
INCREASING rate?
We're not sure yet...
How can THAT happen?
The most fundamental answer that science can provide: "We do not know."
Entropy requires that CREATION should NEVER HAVE
OCCURRED.
Entropy requires and dictates a lot of things. The impossibility of an
omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient sky-daddy is one of them.
It takes ENERGY to create ORDER out of DISORDER.
Who input the ENERGY to CREATE all that has been made,
the billions of galaxies which contain billions of
stars?
Your questions are fundamentally flawed. You're asking them in such a
way, so as to guarantee an answer that will not upset your superstitious
world-view.
-n
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 07:59:47 PM |
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Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot" )>
wrote in news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
How do you know this?
We can't make programs with work FLAWLESSLY.
We don't understand the atom, the universe, or even the
human body enough to design drugs which are NOT WORSE
than the 'cure'.
Human beings are in the process of LEARNING and
UNDERSTANDING the LAWS which GOVERN this universe.
It's called "science". Has nothing to do with any gods.
Who put those LAWS together?
How do you know that anyone or anything put them "together"?
Who CREATED all that is?
How do you know it was created and didn't form on its or it has simply
existed in some form since the begining of time.
Human beings can't create as well as THAT WHICH ALREADY
EXISTS, and you 'think'(?) that there is NO CREATOR
GOD?
Can you provide some evidence of any creator god, other than your
assumption that the universe was created and your creator god did it?
Is it true that the universe is expanding at an
INCREASING rate?
How can THAT happen?
We're still working on that one. But why do you think some magical god is
involved?
Entropy requires that CREATION should NEVER HAVE
OCCURRED.
Entropy also prohibits the existence of any eternal, non-changing, all
powerful gods.
It takes ENERGY to create ORDER out of DISORDER.
Who input the ENERGY to CREATE all that has been made,
the billions of galaxies which contain billions of
stars?
Why do you think a "who" was involved?
I keep asking this, but are you REALLY THIS STUPID, or
are you just pretending to be?
If you can provide real world evidence to support your god/creator
hypothesis, then we might consider that you really aren't this stupid
either.
WHY do the BLEATERS suffer from random BOUTS of caps LOCK abuse?
<plonk> goes the fuckwit!
So much for RATIONAL discourse.
Then again, you proved your IRRATIONALITY in your first
statement.
And you think that belief in some god is "rational"?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Steve Newman" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
24 Sep 2003 01:31:02 PM |
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Can you provide some evidence of any creator god, other than your
assumption that the universe was created and your creator god did it?
What would constitute acceptable proof?
.
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| User: "John Hattan" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
24 Sep 2003 04:05:46 PM |
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(Steve Newman) wrote:
Can you provide some evidence of any creator god, other than your
assumption that the universe was created and your creator god did it?
What would constitute acceptable proof?
Acceptible proof of god-hood for me is absurdly simple. All it requires
is the correct answer to one very simple question.
Oh, and since omniscience is a requirement for god-hood, there's no need
for me to reveal the question here.
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
john@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
.
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| User: "Jani" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
24 Sep 2003 04:50:53 PM |
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"John Hattan" <john@thecodezone.com> wrote in message
news:pk14nv0dk99rgn9j1776cp1nrui48jpd85@4ax.com...
Acceptible proof of god-hood for me is absurdly simple. All it requires
is the correct answer to one very simple question.
Oh, and since omniscience is a requirement for god-hood, there's no need
for me to reveal the question here.
I think that only applies to christian deities. Pagan ones tend to find that
omniscience spoils all the fun :)
Jani
.
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| User: "John Hattan" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
24 Sep 2003 07:35:04 PM |
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"Jani" <jani@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
"John Hattan" <john@thecodezone.com> wrote in message
news:pk14nv0dk99rgn9j1776cp1nrui48jpd85@4ax.com...
Acceptible proof of god-hood for me is absurdly simple. All it requires
is the correct answer to one very simple question.
Oh, and since omniscience is a requirement for god-hood, there's no need
for me to reveal the question here.
I think that only applies to christian deities. Pagan ones tend to find that
omniscience spoils all the fun :)
Pagan deities are invited to pass Randi's challenge and show me the
check :)
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
john@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
25 Sep 2003 07:21:43 AM |
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On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:05:46 +0000, John Hattan wrote:
steve.newman@worldnet.att.net (Steve Newman) wrote:
Can you provide some evidence of any creator god, other than your
assumption that the universe was created and your creator god did it?
What would constitute acceptable proof?
Acceptible proof of god-hood for me is absurdly simple. All it requires is
the correct answer to one very simple question.
Oh, and since omniscience is a requirement for god-hood, there's no need
for me to reveal the question here.
The answer is...47. Now bow down before me, lest I smite you.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Kevin Anthoney" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
25 Sep 2003 07:53:37 AM |
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MarkA wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:05:46 +0000, John Hattan wrote:
steve.newman@worldnet.att.net (Steve Newman) wrote:
Can you provide some evidence of any creator god, other than your
assumption that the universe was created and your creator god did it?
What would constitute acceptable proof?
Acceptible proof of god-hood for me is absurdly simple. All it requires
is the correct answer to one very simple question.
Oh, and since omniscience is a requirement for god-hood, there's no need
for me to reveal the question here.
The answer is...47. Now bow down before me, lest I smite you.
I think you'd need more than 47 lemmings to do *that*. And you forgot the
sub-question about the trampoline.
Better luck next time...
--
Kevin Anthoney
kanthoney[a]dsl.pipex.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
24 Sep 2003 01:45:12 PM |
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In article <a4a28158.0309241031.6241d186@posting.google.com>, Steve Newman
says...
Can you provide some evidence of any creator god, other than your
assumption that the universe was created and your creator god did it?
What would constitute acceptable proof?
Objective, verifiable, extra-biblical proof.
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serveto expose the wicked and the blind. |
24 Sep 2003 02:38:50 PM |
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Steve Newman wrote:
Can you provide some evidence of any creator god, other than your
assumption that the universe was created and your creator god did it?
What would constitute acceptable proof?
Why don't you show us what you've got?
--
Fred Stone
Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
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| User: "Eagle29 to email, remove the at and dot " |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 09:39:12 PM |
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In article <Xns93FED55F22AA6wodencharternet@
216.168.3.44>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot" )>
wrote in news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
How do you know this?
Who 'made' you?
Didn't you have parents? Who MADE them, and their
parents, and so on?
Do programs get written on their own, or do people
actually have to WRITE them?
Do computer chips get designed and created by
themselves, or do ENGINEERS have to LEARN enough of the
LAWS which GOVERN creation so that they can DESIGN
chips which CONFORM to those laws and do something
useful?
The same reasoning can and SHOULD be extended into all
that you see.
Mankind doesn't even understand all of it, and you have
the gall to ask 'how do you know this'?
Creation is called 'creation', because it was CREATED.
Things which have ORDER and DESIGN, do NOT just happen
on their own.
The next time your computer locks up on you, you can
ask yourself why, and why is it that YOU YOURSELF CAN'T
REDESIGN and CREATE an operating system and programs
which work as FLAWLESSLY as your mind and body do.
We can't make programs with work FLAWLESSLY.
We don't understand the atom, the universe, or even the
human body enough to design drugs which are NOT WORSE
than the 'cure'.
Human beings are in the process of LEARNING and
UNDERSTANDING the LAWS which GOVERN this universe.
It's called "science". Has nothing to do with any gods.
you don't get the point.
The point is, that 'science' does NOT understand the
LAWS which govern the universe.
What LITTLE we do know, ALLOWS us to DESIGN and CREATE,
although IMPERFECTLY.
Perhaps you should go buy a Ford Pinto and find out the
truth of that fact for yourself.
Who put those LAWS together?
How do you know that anyone or anything put them "together"?
Are you REALLY THIS STUPID?
Who put together everything you're using right now to
get on the internet and use it?
Who put together the earth, and ALL that is in it?
What is more complex, the CREATED things you're using
to get on the internet, or YOU and ALL that surrounds
you which 'science' is just beginning to understand?
Who CREATED all that is?
How do you know it was created and didn't form on its or it has simply
existed in some form since the begining of time.
Are you kidding?
Did YOU design, engineer and create the computer you're
using?
What's more complex, the computer and the programs
you're using which were all designed, created and are
not even perfect, or your own human body and that brain
of yours which barely seems to be functioning at the
moment?
If we created computers, who designed and created your
brain whose functions and operation we don't even
understand?
Or are you going to insult everyone's intelligence and
tell us that we all 'evolved' from a puddle of ooze on
the ground billions of years ago?
What sounds more stupid, that 'theory', or that there
IS a Creator God who designed the entire universe and
all the life that is in it?
I have yet to see a puddle of ooze get up and walk and
design a computer, let alone create a universe of
billions of galaxies each with billions of stars and
planets all of which OBEY CREATED LAWS which govern ALL
THEIR BEHAVIOUR down to the level of the atom and
BELOW.
Human beings can't create as well as THAT WHICH ALREADY
EXISTS, and you 'think'(?) that there is NO CREATOR
GOD?
Can you provide some evidence of any creator god, other than your
assumption that the universe was created and your creator god did it?
The evidence is your life, moron.
Look in the mirror and wonder at how you were designed
and made, and at how gracious God must be to allow you
to live despite your gross ignorance and stupidity in
denying that SOMEONE had to DESIGN and CREATE every
single thing you see around you, all the way down to
the level of the atom, and BELOW.
Is it true that the universe is expanding at an
INCREASING rate?
How can THAT happen?
We're still working on that one. But why do you think some magical god is
involved?
Are you really so stupid as to think that science is
magic?
True science is not magic.
Understanding the Laws which govern this universe
allows one to use those Laws to create.
Why don't you tell us EXACTLY how the brain works, and
design a computer based on biochemical reactions
instead of electronic circuits?
After you do that, design a working system which can be
controlled by that computer and redesign the computer
so as to allow FREE WILL in that system so that it can
do whatever it wishes, even LEARN.
What, you don't know how?
Why's that?
The whole point is, that everything you see, was
created, either by mankind, or SOMEONE ELSE.
Who CREATED mankind, and who CREATED the universe, and
who is FORCING the universe to EXPAND at an INCREASING
RATE?
Why don't you just answer that last question?
Entropy requires that CREATION should NEVER HAVE
OCCURRED.
Entropy also prohibits the existence of any eternal, non-changing, all
powerful gods.
What Law of Thermodynamics teaches that there is no
God?
I never read that Law.
Could you show it to us, or are you just a dumb liar
who argues out of ignorance and stupidity?
It takes ENERGY to create ORDER out of DISORDER.
Who input the ENERGY to CREATE all that has been made,
the billions of galaxies which contain billions of
stars?
Why do you think a "who" was involved?
I keep asking this, but are you REALLY THIS STUPID, or
are you just pretending to be?
If you can provide real world evidence to support your god/creator
hypothesis, then we might consider that you really aren't this stupid
either.
you answered your own request.
WHY do the BLEATERS suffer from random BOUTS of caps LOCK abuse?
<plonk> goes the fuckwit!
So much for RATIONAL discourse.
Then again, you proved your IRRATIONALITY in your first
statement.
And you think that belief in some god is "rational"?
And you think your unbelief is 'rational'?
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was
formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not
made out of what was visible.
Or is some idiot out there going to tell us that he can
see atoms and the particles which it consists of, and
all the power which is contained within it?
We don't even KNOW the LAWS which govern the operation
of a SINGLE ATOM, and you think(?) that there is NOT a
Creator God out there who DESIGNED it along with
everything else in creation?
Rom 1:20 For since the CREATION of the world God's
INVISIBLE qualities--His eternal power and divine
nature--HAVE BEEN CLEARLY SEEN, being understood FROM
WHAT HAS BEEN MADE, SO THAT MEN ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither
glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their
thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were
darkened.
Rom 1:22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became
fools
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God
for images made to look like mortal man and birds and
animals and reptiles.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful
desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the
degrading of their bodies with one another.
Rom 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie,
and WORSHIPED AND SERVED CREATED THINGS RATHER THAN The
Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
Rom 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to
shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural
relations for unnatural ones.
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned
natural relations with women and were inflamed with
lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with
other men, and received in themselves the due penalty
for their perversion.
Rom 1:28 Furthermore, since they did not think it
worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them
over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be
done.
Rom 1:29 They have become filled with every kind of
wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of
envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are
gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant
and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they
disobey their parents;
Rom 1:31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless,
ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Although they know God's RIGHTEOUS DECREE
THAT THOSE WHO DO SUCH THINGS DESERVE DEATH, they not
only continue to do these very things but also approve
of those who practice them.
--
http://www.zionministry.com
Oscar Ayala
Eagle28 at swbell dot net
(Replace at with @ and dot with . and remove spaces)
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 10:29:41 PM |
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Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot"
)> wrote in news:MPG.19d96f463a233ab3989948@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
In article <Xns93FED55F22AA6wodencharternet@
216.168.3.44>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and
"dot" )> wrote in
news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
(snip)
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
How do you know this?
Who 'made' you?
Didn't you have parents? Who MADE them, and their
parents, and so on?
Do programs get written on their own, or do people
actually have to WRITE them?
Do computer chips get designed and created by
themselves, or do ENGINEERS have to LEARN enough of the
LAWS which GOVERN creation so that they can DESIGN
chips which CONFORM to those laws and do something
useful?
The same reasoning can and SHOULD be extended into all
that you see.
Why? There isn't any evidence that supports your contention that
everything was created. It is merely a leap of faith on your part that
since some things you understand were created by humans, then everything
must have been created.
I guess by following this reasoning of yours, then you should also explain
who created your creator god?
Mankind doesn't even understand all of it, and you have
the gall to ask 'how do you know this'?
So are you saying that since we don't understand all of this, then some god
must have done it? Of course, years ago, gods caused lightning and
thunder, caused crops to grow or fail, caused earthquakes, etc. Since at
the time, humans didn't understand all of it, then "gods" must have been
the right answer. Isn't it funny how as we've learned more and more about
the world and universe, the things these gods are responsible have
diminished and diminished. I guess that means as we gain further and
better understanding of how the universe formed, we can kiss your creator
god myth goodby as well.
Creation is called 'creation', because it was CREATED.
What evidence do you have that shows "it" was created?
Things which have ORDER and DESIGN, do NOT just happen
on their own.
Why not?
The next time your computer locks up on you, you can
ask yourself why, and why is it that YOU YOURSELF CAN'T
REDESIGN and CREATE an operating system and programs
which work as FLAWLESSLY as your mind and body do.
I have evidence on the creation and design of computers by humans. You are
welcome to present the same kind of evidence for your gods.
We can't make programs with work FLAWLESSLY.
We don't understand the atom, the universe, or even the
human body enough to design drugs which are NOT WORSE
than the 'cure'.
Human beings are in the process of LEARNING and
UNDERSTANDING the LAWS which GOVERN this universe.
It's called "science". Has nothing to do with any gods.
you don't get the point.
The point is, that 'science' does NOT understand the
LAWS which govern the universe.
What LITTLE we do know, ALLOWS us to DESIGN and CREATE,
although IMPERFECTLY.
Perhaps you should go buy a Ford Pinto and find out the
truth of that fact for yourself.
Why does our lack of complete understanding of the laws of the universe
lead to the conclusion that these laws are the result of come creator god?
Who put those LAWS together?
How do you know that anyone or anything put them "together"?
Are you REALLY THIS STUPID?
Are you really going to evade direct answers to any question? Where's the
evidence in support of this creator god hypothesis of yours?
Who put together everything you're using right now to
get on the internet and use it?
So far, I've seen evidence of humans at work on this.
Who put together the earth, and ALL that is in it?
The evidence I've seen indicates that gravitational forces caused the
condensation of intersellar gases which eventually formed the Sun, the
Earth and the rest of the Solar system. Why is it necessary for a "who" to
have done anything?
What is more complex, the CREATED things you're using
to get on the internet, or YOU and ALL that surrounds
you which 'science' is just beginning to understand?
Who CREATED all that is?
How do you know it was created and didn't form on its or it has
simply existed in some form since the begining of time.
Are you kidding?
Did YOU design, engineer and create the computer you're
using?
What's more complex, the computer and the programs
you're using which were all designed, created and are
not even perfect, or your own human body and that brain
of yours which barely seems to be functioning at the
moment?
If we created computers, who designed and created your
brain whose functions and operation we don't even
understand?
Or are you going to insult everyone's intelligence and
tell us that we all 'evolved' from a puddle of ooze on
the ground billions of years ago?
Funny how the only people who find that "insulting" are religious believers
who think that ancient myths and superstitions are somehow real.
What sounds more stupid, that 'theory', or that there
IS a Creator God who designed the entire universe and
all the life that is in it?
At least that "theory" is supported by a lot of evidence. Feel free to
provide the evidence which supports your god hypothesis instead of the
scientific theories.
I have yet to see a puddle of ooze get up and walk and
design a computer, let alone create a universe of
billions of galaxies each with billions of stars and
planets all of which OBEY CREATED LAWS which govern ALL
THEIR BEHAVIOUR down to the level of the atom and
BELOW.
Of course, I don't suppose you've been around for a few billions years
watching that puddle of ooze change have you?
Human beings can't create as well as THAT WHICH ALREADY
EXISTS, and you 'think'(?) that there is NO CREATOR
GOD?
Can you provide some evidence of any creator god, other than your
assumption that the universe was created and your creator god did it?
The evidence is your life, moron.
Look in the mirror and wonder at how you were designed
and made, and at how gracious God must be to allow you
to live despite your gross ignorance and stupidity in
denying that SOMEONE had to DESIGN and CREATE every
single thing you see around you, all the way down to
the level of the atom, and BELOW.
Yeah, I see the evidence of that creation all the time. My prostate which
enlarges as I grow older, eventually blocking my urethra - well planned.
My eyes with a blind spot where the nerves enter the front of the retina,
as opposed to the squid with nerves exiting the rear of the retina - well
planned. A sexual orifice right next to a waste orifice, so that bacterium
can make the easy trip from one to the other - well planned. Lizard that
can grow new limbs, but the pinnacle of this creation, humans that can't -
well planned. I'm sure with time (or some internet searching), I could
think of more examples. It boils down to either there is no design or this
designer of yours is not very competent.
Is it true that the universe is expanding at an
INCREASING rate?
How can THAT happen?
We're still working on that one. But why do you think some magical
god is involved?
Are you really so stupid as to think that science is
magic?
Obviously not, and I also see no reason to believe some magical god thingy
is responsible for any of it either.
True science is not magic.
Understanding the Laws which govern this universe
allows one to use those Laws to create.
Why don't you tell us EXACTLY how the brain works, and
design a computer based on biochemical reactions
instead of electronic circuits?
After you do that, design a working system which can be
controlled by that computer and redesign the computer
so as to allow FREE WILL in that system so that it can
do whatever it wishes, even LEARN.
What, you don't know how?
Why's that?
The whole point is, that everything you see, was
created, either by mankind, or SOMEONE ELSE.
Who CREATED mankind, and who CREATED the universe, and
who is FORCING the universe to EXPAND at an INCREASING
RATE?
Again you put a "who" in the process. What evidence do you have for a
"who"?
Why don't you just answer that last question?
"I don't know" seems like a satifactory answer. Especially when it's
followed by "But I'm still looking". Why do you think "goddidit" answers
anything?
Entropy requires that CREATION should NEVER HAVE
OCCURRED.
Entropy also prohibits the existence of any eternal, non-changing,
all powerful gods.
What Law of Thermodynamics teaches that there is no
God?
I never read that Law.
You claimed that entropy requires creation and then you turn around and
tell me you never read that. Obviously you aren't smart enough to
understand it on your own and you're just taking what you've heard or read
from some charlatan and repeated it.
Could you show it to us, or are you just a dumb liar
who argues out of ignorance and stupidity?
Sorry, I don't have time to give you remedial schooling. Try getting a
real education sometime, instead of reading crap passed out by religious
con artists.
It takes ENERGY to create ORDER out of DISORDER.
Who input the ENERGY to CREATE all that has been made,
the billions of galaxies which contain billions of
stars?
Why do you think a "who" was involved?
I keep asking this, but are you REALLY THIS STUPID, or
are you just pretending to be?
If you can provide real world evidence to support your god/creator
hypothesis, then we might consider that you really aren't this stupid
either.
you answered your own request.
WHY do the BLEATERS suffer from random BOUTS of caps LOCK abuse?
<plonk> goes the fuckwit!
So much for RATIONAL discourse.
Then again, you proved your IRRATIONALITY in your first
statement.
And you think that belief in some god is "rational"?
And you think your unbelief is 'rational'?
Based on the real world evidence, there is no reason to believe in any
gods.
I snipped your bible BS. Until you can show that your god really exists
and really did write or inspire the bible, then anything quoted from it has
no meaning in reality. It's just another work of ancient legends, myths
and fiction.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "John Hattan" |
|
| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 10:11:35 PM |
|
|
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot"
)> wrote:
In article <Xns93FED55F22AA6wodencharternet@
216.168.3.44>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot" )>
wrote in news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
How do you know this?
Who 'made' you?
Didn't you have parents? Who MADE them, and their
parents, and so on?
Do programs get written on their own, or do people
actually have to WRITE them?
Do computer chips get designed and created by
themselves, or do ENGINEERS have to LEARN enough of the
LAWS which GOVERN creation so that they can DESIGN
chips which CONFORM to those laws and do something
useful?
The same reasoning can and SHOULD be extended into all
that you see.
Including God?
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
john@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Eagle29 to email, remove the at and dot " |
|
| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 10:16:13 PM |
|
|
In article <ibevmvon04cdhu82fc54e80me1b32be50p@
4ax.com>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot"
)> wrote:
In article <Xns93FED55F22AA6wodencharternet@
216.168.3.44>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot" )>
wrote in news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
How do you know this?
Who 'made' you?
Didn't you have parents? Who MADE them, and their
parents, and so on?
Do programs get written on their own, or do people
actually have to WRITE them?
Do computer chips get designed and created by
themselves, or do ENGINEERS have to LEARN enough of the
LAWS which GOVERN creation so that they can DESIGN
chips which CONFORM to those laws and do something
useful?
The same reasoning can and SHOULD be extended into all
that you see.
Including God?
Have you SEEN God?
Or are you just being as stupid as your signature makes
you out to be?
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
http://www.shatnerology.com
--
http://www.zionministry.com
Oscar Ayala
Eagle28 at swbell dot net
(Replace at with @ and dot with . and remove spaces)
.
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| User: "William Klee" |
|
| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
23 Sep 2003 02:51:51 PM |
|
|
In article <MPG.19d977f58b8e2ab3989954@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net>,
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> wrote:
In article <ibevmvon04cdhu82fc54e80me1b32be50p@
4ax.com>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot"
)> wrote:
In article <Xns93FED55F22AA6wodencharternet@
216.168.3.44>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot"
)>
wrote in news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
How do you know this?
Who 'made' you?
Didn't you have parents? Who MADE them, and their
parents, and so on?
Do programs get written on their own, or do people
actually have to WRITE them?
Do computer chips get designed and created by
themselves, or do ENGINEERS have to LEARN enough of the
LAWS which GOVERN creation so that they can DESIGN
chips which CONFORM to those laws and do something
useful?
The same reasoning can and SHOULD be extended into all
that you see.
Including God?
Have you SEEN God?
Have you?
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 10:39:13 PM |
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On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:16:13 +0000, Eagle29 wrote:
In article <ibevmvon04cdhu82fc54e80me1b32be50p@
4ax.com>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot"
)> wrote:
In article <Xns93FED55F22AA6wodencharternet@
216.168.3.44>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot" )>
wrote in news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
How do you know this?
Who 'made' you?
Didn't you have parents? Who MADE them, and their
parents, and so on?
Do programs get written on their own, or do people
actually have to WRITE them?
Do computer chips get designed and created by
themselves, or do ENGINEERS have to LEARN enough of the
LAWS which GOVERN creation so that they can DESIGN
chips which CONFORM to those laws and do something
useful?
The same reasoning can and SHOULD be extended into all
that you see.
Including God?
Have you SEEN God?
Oh but YOU had lunch with him I take it?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
.
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| User: "Eagle29 to email, remove the at and dot " |
|
| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 10:50:24 PM |
|
|
In article <pan.2003.09.23.03.39.13.135647@eac.org>,
iskanipa-y@hoo.com says...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:16:13 +0000, Eagle29 wrote:
In article <ibevmvon04cdhu82fc54e80me1b32be50p@
4ax.com>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot"
)> wrote:
In article <Xns93FED55F22AA6wodencharternet@
216.168.3.44>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot" )>
wrote in news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
How do you know this?
Who 'made' you?
Didn't you have parents? Who MADE them, and their
parents, and so on?
Do programs get written on their own, or do people
actually have to WRITE them?
Do computer chips get designed and created by
themselves, or do ENGINEERS have to LEARN enough of the
LAWS which GOVERN creation so that they can DESIGN
chips which CONFORM to those laws and do something
useful?
The same reasoning can and SHOULD be extended into all
that you see.
Including God?
Have you SEEN God?
Oh but YOU had lunch with him I take it?
I wish!
The 70 Elders of the 12 Tribes of Israel and Moses ate
with Christ on Sinai. (Exo 24:7-11)
And since NO ONE except Christ has seen God the Father
(John 6:46, 1 Tim 6:16), then it stands to reason that
those in the Old Testament who saw God and described
Him as an Angel, ACTUALLY SAW CHRIST.
Christ appeared to His Servants in the Old Testament,
just as He did in the New, and will again.
--
http://www.zionministry.com
Oscar Ayala
Eagle28 at swbell dot net
(Replace at with @ and dot with . and remove spaces)
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
22 Sep 2003 11:01:56 PM |
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On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:50:24 +0000, Eagle29 wrote:
In article <pan.2003.09.23.03.39.13.135647@eac.org>,
iskanipa-y@hoo.com says...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:16:13 +0000, Eagle29 wrote:
In article <ibevmvon04cdhu82fc54e80me1b32be50p@
4ax.com>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot"
)> wrote:
In article <Xns93FED55F22AA6wodencharternet@
216.168.3.44>, says...
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and "dot" )>
wrote in news:MPG.19d955493d07850c98a254@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net:
In article <3f6f952f$0$14558$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au>,
says...
"Eagle29" <eagle28at@swbelldot.net( to email, remove the
"at" and "dot" )>
wrote in message
news:MPG.19d94cd2b38985b698a24e@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
<snip whole "God exists because the Bible says so and the
Bible is true because it's the word of God...and he's
such a nice guy" attitude *****>
God exists because CREATION didn't happen on it's own.
How do you know this?
Who 'made' you?
Didn't you have parents? Who MADE them, and their
parents, and so on?
Do programs get written on their own, or do people
actually have to WRITE them?
Do computer chips get designed and created by
themselves, or do ENGINEERS have to LEARN enough of the
LAWS which GOVERN creation so that they can DESIGN
chips which CONFORM to those laws and do something
useful?
The same reasoning can and SHOULD be extended into all
that you see.
Including God?
Have you SEEN God?
Oh but YOU had lunch with him I take it?
I wish!
The 70 Elders of the 12 Tribes of Israel and Moses ate
with Christ on Sinai. (Exo 24:7-11)
And since NO ONE except Christ has seen God the Father
(John 6:46, 1 Tim 6:16), then it stands to reason that
those in the Old Testament who saw God and described
Him as an Angel, ACTUALLY SAW CHRIST.
Christ appeared to His Servants in the Old Testament,
just as He did in the New, and will again.
Anybody can write a book.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
23 Sep 2003 08:44:54 AM |
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|
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:50:24 GMT, several witnesses claim to have seen
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and
"dot" )> scrawl a message on the wall:
And since NO ONE except Christ has seen God the Father
(John 6:46, 1 Tim 6:16), then it stands to reason that
those in the Old Testament who saw God and described
Him as an Angel, ACTUALLY SAW CHRIST.
Except he hadn't been born yet.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/seen.html
Ex.33:11
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to
his friend."
--
Douglas Berry
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Eagle29 to email, remove the at and dot " |
|
| Title: Re: Deceitful arguments from the wicked and the blind only serve to expose the wicked and the blind. |
23 Sep 2003 08:31:58 PM |
|
|
In article <lhj0nv4ccbbrl04em1m3lfqt3cmfvdkot4@
4ax.com>, says...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:50:24 GMT, several witnesses claim to have seen
Eagle29 <eagle28at@swbelldot.net> <( to email, remove the "at" and
"dot" )> scrawl a message on the wall:
And since NO ONE except Christ has seen God the Father
(John 6:46, 1 Tim 6:16), then it stands to reason that
those in the Old Testament who saw God and described
Him as an Angel, ACTUALLY SAW CHRIST.
Except he hadn't been born yet.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/seen.html
Ex.33:11
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to
his friend."
Christ was God who BECAME MAN.
The One known as the Christ was GOD and very much alive
BEFORE He became born of a human woman.
John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will
all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the
Father and learns from him comes to me.
John 6:46 NO ONE HAS SEEN THE FATHER except the one
who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
Here, Christ tells us that only Christ has seen God the
Father.
Paul, in writing to Timothy, tells us again that only
God the Father is TRULY IMMORTAL and NO ONE has seen
Him.
1 Tim 6:16 WHO ALONE IS IMMORTAL and who lives in
unapproachable light, whom NO ONE HAS SEEN OR CAN SEE.
To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
If you recall, Christ DIED.
So if NO ONE except Christ has SEEN the Father, and NO
ONE CAN SEE God the Father, who was it who spoke to
Abraham, Moses, Gideon, and others in the Old
Testament?
It was the One who became Jesus of Nazareth.
1 Cor 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the
fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the
cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
1 Cor 10:2 They were all baptized into Moses in the
cloud and in the sea.
1 Cor 10:3 They all ate the same spiritual food
1 Cor 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for
they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied
them, and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.
Who was the ANGEL who spoke to and appeared to Moses
from the burning bush?
It was the same ANGEL which appeared to Abraham, Jacob,
Gideon and others.
That Angel, WAS GOD, and that God, was Jesus.
Jesus Christ was the God who spoke to and appeared to
Moses, and ate with the 70 Elders on the mountain.
No one HAS NOR CAN see the Father.
The same God who appeared to His Servants in the Old
Testament, appeared to His Servants in the New.
And when He appeared to Moses, He even gave us His
Name.
Exo 3:13 Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the
Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers
has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his
name?' Then what shall I tell them?"
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is
what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent
me to you.'"
Exo 3:15 God also said to Moses, "Say to the
Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God
of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has
sent me to you.' THIS IS MY NAME FOREVER, THE NAME BY
WHICH I AM TO BE REMEMBERED FROM GENERATION TO
GENERATION.
Margin: The Hebrew for <LORD> sounds like and may be
derived from the Hebrew for <I AM> in verse 14.
Exo 3:16 "Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to
them, 'The LORD (YHVH), the God (Elohim) of your
fathers--the God (Elohim) of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob--
APPEARED TO ME and said: I have watched over you and
have seen what has been done to you in Egypt.
Exo 24:7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and
read it to the people. They responded, "We will do
everything the LORD has said; we will obey."
Exo 24:8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on
the people and said, "This is the blood of the covenant
that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all
these words."
Exo 24:9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the
SEVENTY ELDERS OF ISRAEL went up
Exo 24:10 and SAW the God (Elohim) of Israel. Under
his feet was something like a pavement made of
sapphire, clear as the sky itself.
Exo 24:11 But God did not raise his hand against these
leaders of the Israelites; THEY SAW GOD, AND THEY ATE
AND DRANK.
This GOD (YHVH) WHO APPEARED TO MOSES AND THE SEVENTY
ELDERS OF ISRAEL, is the same God who appeared to Adam
and Eve, Abraham, Jacob and others in the Old
Testament.
They CORRECTLY called Him an ANGEL of the Lord, and yet
this Angel, was ALSO GOD.
This is the very same GOD who was with God the Father
in the beginning and who made all that was made, and
who became a MAN and DIED.
This GOD who appeared to Moses, is also known as the
WORD, the Wisdom and the Power of God.
1 Cor 1:24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews
and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the WISDOM of
God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was THE WORD, and the Word
was WITH God, and the Word WAS God.
John 1:2 He (The Word) was WITH God (The Father) in
the beginning.
John 1:3 Through Him (The Word) all things were made;
without Him nothing was made that has been made.
John 1:4 In Him was life, and that life was the light
of men.
John 1:5 The Light shines in the darkness, but the
DARKNESS HAS NOT UNDERSTOOD IT.
In LIGHT of the facts, your resistance to God and the
Truth of ALL that has been CREATED ALL AROUND YOU is
more than just a bit, well, stupid.
--
Douglas Berry
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
--
http://www.zionministry.com
Oscar Ayala
Eagle28 at swbell dot net
(Replace at with @ and dot with . and remove spaces)
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