Religions > Atheism > BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Accelerator" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2004 06:23:36 PM |
| Object: |
BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
Hmm. maybe they should change their name to..
The American Federation of Christian Atheists.. (G)
-
Going by what I read.. the atheists themselves are paradoxically
claiming to believe in God.. in their statement on their site's main
page (see definition of an atheist life-style below).
I know atheists like hard facts.. so here's a hard fact.
Throughout the scriptures the word "belief" is only being used in the
context of meaning.. to believe what is being said.
To be more specific.. it is used to mean.. believing in what the
prophets taught.
That is that.. we should treat each other as we would wish to be
treated ourselves . . and this is the basis for religious Law.. since
it was taught by Buddha.. Confucius.. Lao Tzu…. and our old friends…
the American Association of Atheists..:-))
I can find no evidence.. at all.. of it being used in the context of
believing in the existence of a supernatural being.
The very idea that religion is concerned with the supernatural seems
to be a fiction.. or can somebody draw my attention to something that
I've missed.. ?
What's more.. the word "God" (which is a symbol.. not a noun).. is
often used together with the word "knowledge"… rather than "Believe".
Therefore.. one has "knowledge of God".. rather than believing.. or
not believing in.. God's existence.
One either has knowledge.. or one does not… belief doesn't come into
it.
NOW.. AS FOR THE AMERICAN ATHEISTS - IS THIS A NEW EMERGING RELIGION..
I ASK ?
I ask.. because.. on the main page they state their position quiet
clearly. . .
----------------------------------------
"Your petitioners are Atheists, and they define their lifestyle as
follows.
"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An
Atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now
-- here on earth -- for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist accepts
that he can get no help through prayer, but that he must find in
himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple
with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An Atheist accepts that only in
a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find
the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment."
I did e-mail them a couple of times.. pointing out this inconsistency
.. . and invited them to discuss but they declined. . .(sigh)
Well.. maybe someone would like to defend their position here..
Below . . point by point . . is a copy of one issue I raised with
them . .
----------------------------------------
1. "An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god."
Correspondingly . . the Bible says:
"You must not take vengeance nor have a grudge against the sons of
your people; and you must love your fellow as yourself."
Leviticus 19:18
-
"All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must
likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets
mean."
Matthew 7:12
-----------------------------------------
2. "An Atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should
work now -- here on earth -- for all men together to enjoy."
-
And.. Jesus taught..*
-
"The Kingdom of heaven is spread upon the surface of the Earth.. yet
men do not see it."
Jesus- Gospel of Thomas
-----------------------------------------
3. "An Atheist accepts that he can get no help through prayer, . . ."
However.. the prophets also saw the people's prayers as worthless
too...
"And when you spread out your palms, I hide my eyes from you. Even
though you make many prayers, I am not listening; with bloodshed your
very hands have become filled."
Isaiah 1:15
-
"And as for you, do not pray in behalf of this people, and do not lift
up in their behalf an entreating cry or a prayer, for I shall not be
listening in the time of their calling out to me in regard to their
calamity.
Jeremiah 11:14
------------------------------------------
"...but that an atheist must find in himself the inner conviction and
strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy
it."
However.. the Bible teaches the need for us to have inner conviction
also...
"Why do you not judge also for yourselves what is righteous?"
Luke 12:57
-
"For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature
the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a
law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter
of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is
bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are
being accused or even excused."
Romans 2:12
--------------------------------------
4. "An Atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a
knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will
help to a life of fulfillment."
-
If so.. then.. it seems that the atheist is indeed.. deeply
religious.. since the purpose of religion is to give us the knowledge
to "link back" to know who we REALLY are.*
---------------------------------------
"Since it has been said that you are my twin and true companion..
examine yourself! - Examine yourself.. so that you may understand who
you are... And you will be called the one who knows themselves ! For
whoever has not know themself.. has known nothing. But whoever has
known themself.. has simultaneously achieved knowledge of the depth of
the ALL!
Jesus - Thomas the Contender
----------------------------------------
KNOW YOURSELF
"They have not known, and they do not understand; In darkness they
keep walking about; All the foundations of the earth are made to
totter.
I myself have said, 'You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most
High."
Psalms 82:5
-
So.. does this imply that by definition.. an atheist is someone who
doesn't believe in themselves.. ?
:-)
+
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 01:10:31 AM |
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On 16 Feb 2004 16:23:36 -0800 in alt.atheism, Accelerator
(accelerator@zonnet.nl (Accelerator)) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
Hmm. maybe they should change their name to..
The American Federation of Christian Atheists.. (G)
This would probably infringe the copyright of the "Church of England"
<snigger>.
[snip]
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "I Am Your Clayton, Luke!" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 04:18:04 AM |
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"Accelerator" <accelerator@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com...
Having once been an atheist myself..
You have all the credibility as a frypan made of ice and your post holds as
much water as a tea strainer. Go preach to your dogs...they'll roll over no
matter how much ***** you dribble.
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
16 Feb 2004 06:59:41 PM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in
news:8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com:
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
You know, in my experience every single xian who comes around here
stating that they used to be an "atheist" has either been a "liar for
christ" or so stupid that their use of the word "atheist" is completely
different than the rest of the world. Which are you?
Hmm. maybe they should change their name to..
The American Federation of Christian Atheists.. (G)
-
Going by what I read.. the atheists themselves are paradoxically
claiming to believe in God.. in their statement on their site's main
page (see definition of an atheist life-style below).
I know atheists like hard facts.. so here's a hard fact.
Throughout the scriptures the word "belief" is only being used in the
context of meaning.. to believe what is being said.
To be more specific.. it is used to mean.. believing in what the
prophets taught.
That is that.. we should treat each other as we would wish to be
treated ourselves . . and this is the basis for religious Law.. since
it was taught by Buddha.. Confucius.. Lao Tzu…. and our old friends…
the American Association of Atheists..:-))
I can find no evidence.. at all.. of it being used in the context of
believing in the existence of a supernatural being.
The very idea that religion is concerned with the supernatural seems
to be a fiction.. or can somebody draw my attention to something that
I've missed.. ?
What's more.. the word "God" (which is a symbol.. not a noun).. is
often used together with the word "knowledge"… rather than "Believe".
Therefore.. one has "knowledge of God".. rather than believing.. or
not believing in.. God's existence.
One either has knowledge.. or one does not… belief doesn't come into
it.
And where does one get knowledge of this god? From the bible? How do
you know the bible is true and accurate?
Oh, by the way, where is this "hard" evidence? All you have presented so
far is meaningless rhetoric and worthless rationalizations for your
beliefs.
NOW.. AS FOR THE AMERICAN ATHEISTS - IS THIS A NEW EMERGING RELIGION..
I ASK ?
I ask.. because.. on the main page they state their position quiet
clearly. . .
----------------------------------------
"Your petitioners are Atheists, and they define their lifestyle as
follows.
"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An
Atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now
-- here on earth -- for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist accepts
that he can get no help through prayer, but that he must find in
himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple
with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An Atheist accepts that only in
a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find
the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment."
I did e-mail them a couple of times.. pointing out this inconsistency
. . and invited them to discuss but they declined. . .(sigh)
Well.. maybe someone would like to defend their position here..
Below . . point by point . . is a copy of one issue I raised with
them . .
----------------------------------------
1. "An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god."
Correspondingly . . the Bible says:
"You must not take vengeance nor have a grudge against the sons of
your people; and you must love your fellow as yourself."
Leviticus 19:18
-
"All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must
likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets
mean."
Matthew 7:12
So the xian religion has stolen some basic social rules from the
societies that came before them. What does this have to do with any god?
-----------------------------------------
2. "An Atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should
work now -- here on earth -- for all men together to enjoy."
-
And.. Jesus taught..*
-
"The Kingdom of heaven is spread upon the surface of the Earth.. yet
men do not see it."
Jesus- Gospel of Thomas
Yeah, it's awful hard to see imaginary things.
-----------------------------------------
3. "An Atheist accepts that he can get no help through prayer, . . ."
However.. the prophets also saw the people's prayers as worthless
too...
"And when you spread out your palms, I hide my eyes from you. Even
though you make many prayers, I am not listening; with bloodshed your
very hands have become filled."
Isaiah 1:15
-
"And as for you, do not pray in behalf of this people, and do not lift
up in their behalf an entreating cry or a prayer, for I shall not be
listening in the time of their calling out to me in regard to their
calamity.
Jeremiah 11:14
So why do you xians pray to your god?
------------------------------------------
"...but that an atheist must find in himself the inner conviction and
strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy
it."
However.. the Bible teaches the need for us to have inner conviction
also...
"Why do you not judge also for yourselves what is righteous?"
Luke 12:57
-
"For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature
the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a
law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter
of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is
bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are
being accused or even excused."
Romans 2:12
So, I ask again how does the fact that the xian bible stole some basic
social guidelines from existing societies prove any god had a hand in it?
--------------------------------------
4. "An Atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a
knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will
help to a life of fulfillment."
-
If so.. then.. it seems that the atheist is indeed.. deeply
religious.. since the purpose of religion is to give us the knowledge
to "link back" to know who we REALLY are.*
I thought that the purpose of religion was for the benefit of the priests
and politicians who use it to control and fleece the masses of sheep?
---------------------------------------
"Since it has been said that you are my twin and true companion..
examine yourself! - Examine yourself.. so that you may understand who
you are... And you will be called the one who knows themselves ! For
whoever has not know themself.. has known nothing. But whoever has
known themself.. has simultaneously achieved knowledge of the depth of
the ALL!
Jesus - Thomas the Contender
Didn't Socrates also say "Know thyself"? I guess the xians stole that
from the Greeks.
----------------------------------------
KNOW YOURSELF
"They have not known, and they do not understand; In darkness they
keep walking about; All the foundations of the earth are made to
totter.
I myself have said, 'You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most
High."
Psalms 82:5
What gods?
-
So.. does this imply that by definition.. an atheist is someone who
doesn't believe in themselves.. ?
While I don't necessarily agree with the website's use of religious
references to "define" atheist, I fail to see how this makes atheists
into "xian atheists"?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
16 Feb 2004 10:18:59 PM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in
news:8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com:
Subject: BREAKING NE*click*
Next channel. This show sucks.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Brought to you by the letter 'H'
Without it, you'd be eating doug nuts.
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 05:25:04 AM |
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TV's Doc Smartass wrote:
accelerator@zonnet.nl (Accelerator) wrote in
news:8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com:
Subject: BREAKING NE*click*
Next channel. This show sucks.
Change it, Butthead.
--
Don't waste your touch, you won't feel anything
Or were you sent to save me?
I've thought too much
You won't find anything worthy of redeeming
AFI - The Leaving Song Pt. II
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 03:53:05 PM |
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"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in news:c0stmc$1bado8$1@ID-
138129.news.uni-berlin.de:
TV's Doc Smartass wrote:
accelerator@zonnet.nl (Accelerator) wrote in
news:8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com:
Subject: BREAKING NE*click*
Next channel. This show sucks.
Change it, Butthead.
I burned the remote, Beavis! *heheh fire! heheh*
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
"You should realize Usenet is a strange reality where you see people
beating up a patch of grass where nine years ago there used to be a
horse. " 01 July 2003, talk.origins
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| User: "Alan Hobson" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 09:46:22 AM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>...
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
So, having "once been an atheist yourself", did you believe in god at
the time of your alleged atheism?
-Alan
aa#1608 BAAWA
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| User: "Accelerator" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 03:23:51 PM |
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(Alan Hobson) wrote in message news:<d1d6cbe3.0402170746.c24980c@posting.google.com>...
accelerator@zonnet.nl (Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>...
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
So, having "once been an atheist yourself", did you believe in god at
the time of your alleged atheism?
-Alan
aa#1608 BAAWA
I waz only seven..
I got sent to sunday school.. and they told me that God listens to
every word I say.
So.. thinking I was on to a good thing.. I asked God for a new bike..
Since.. being of a scientic nature.. I wanted some hard evidence
first.
When I didn't get a bike.. I knew they were lying.. :-(
I became very anti-religion from then on.. till I read a book by a
bio-chemist.. Robert Ropp.. and that guy got me thinking differently.
http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/master_game.html
-
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious
convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not
believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have
expressed it clearly.
If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the
unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our
science can reveal it.
I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony
of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and
actions of human beings."
Albert Einstein
*
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| User: "Alan Hobson" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 08:36:54 PM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402171323.6e0d530c@posting.google.com>...
alhob@earthlink.net (Alan Hobson) wrote in message news:<d1d6cbe3.0402170746.c24980c@posting.google.com>...
(Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>...
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
So, having "once been an atheist yourself", did you believe in god at
the time of your alleged atheism?
-Alan
aa#1608 BAAWA
I waz only seven..
I got sent to sunday school.. and they told me that God listens to
every word I say.
So.. thinking I was on to a good thing.. I asked God for a new bike..
Since.. being of a scientic nature.. I wanted some hard evidence
first.
When I didn't get a bike.. I knew they were lying.. :-(
I became very anti-religion from then on.. till I read a book by a
bio-chemist.. Robert Ropp.. and that guy got me thinking differently.
Being anti-religion is not the same thing as being an atheist. You
can still believe in god(s) and not follow a religion.
Atheists don't believe in god(s). An atheist could still be
religious, however. For example, some Buddhist sects are atheistic.
-Alan
aa#1608 BAAWA
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 09:43:01 AM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>...
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
Hmm. maybe they should change their name to..
The American Federation of Christian Atheists.. (G)
-
Going by what I read..
[snip]
This whole diatribe shows perfectly how you xians can read your bible
and come up with thousands of different (mis)interpretations. Reading
for comprehension just doesn't interest you guys at all, does it? You
don't see anything supernatural in claiming some guy was sired by a
god? Nothing supernatural about rising from the dead? (At least two
guys did that in your bible, and I'm only talking about your "new"
testament.) Not supernatural? Nothing about miraculous events?
Then, turning your great skills at comprehension to other matters, you
read an atheist website and declare that it proves that atheists
believe in your god. You are at least consistent. You are also in
step with the other "great thinkers" of your religion. Thanks for
sharing.
jwk
BAAWA
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| User: "Accelerator" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 04:20:24 PM |
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(jwk) wrote in message news:<c6f5ba32.0402170743.585f6f9e@posting.google.com>...
accelerator@zonnet.nl (Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>...
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
Hmm. maybe they should change their name to..
The American Federation of Christian Atheists.. (G)
-
Going by what I read..
[snip]
This whole diatribe shows perfectly how you xians can read your bible
and come up with thousands of different (mis)interpretations. Reading
for comprehension just doesn't interest you guys at all, does it?
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Have the legs of the lame one drawn up water? Then there is a
proverb in the mouth of the stupid people."
Proverbs 26.7
NOTE: lame.. means someone who.. metaphorically.. walks.. (or goes
about his business) crookedly.
Ok.. jwkinraleigh.. let me break this to you gently.. if I were to
say.. for example.. "My love is live a red red rose".
Would you understand this literally..?
OF COURSE NOT !
If I say.. "you are blind".. would you understand this as meaning..
that you have a visual impairment.. or would you understand it as
meaning you lack insight and understanding.. ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
LET ME GIVE YA A CLUE - METAPHOR
A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily
designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an
implicit comparison, as in "a sea of troubles" or "All the world's a
stage" (Shakespeare).
One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol
--------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't see anything supernatural in claiming some guy was sired by a
god?<<
Nope.. but I'm curious to know why you.. and other atheists do.
The story is common-placed mythology.. the virgin birth myth occurs in
other religions too.
Why some take it literally is beyond me.
Maybe you would like to dispute the existence of magic beanstorks
too.. (g)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing supernatural about rising from the dead?<<
Asks jwkinraleigh.. hopefully.
NOPE.. if someone's heart stops working.. then they are dead.. if the
heart begins to work again.. then they are alive..
It's that simple.
Metaphorically speaking.. of course..(g)
So.. nothing supernatural there either.
((At least two guys did that in your bible, and I'm only talking about
your "new" testament.))
Yes.. and Thor hurls bolts of thunder from the heavens too.. come on
let's be serious.
Why do you guys read things in such a literal sense.. ?
The next thing we know you'll be telling me the snow white and the
seven dwafs isn't history.
-
((Not supernatural? Nothing about miraculous events?))
NOPE.. i COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING ANYWAY..
Just symbolic stories.. that's all.
This is something that both atheiosts and Christians have in common..
they both believe that religion is concerned with the supernatural..
when it's obviuosly not.
I REST MY CASE
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone inexperienced puts faith in every word , but the shrewd
one considers his steps.
The ridiculer has sought to find wisdom, and there is none; but
to the understanding one knowledge is an easy thing."
Proverbs 14.6 & 14.15
"These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom,
but with
those taught by the spirit, as we combine spiritual matters with
spiritual
words.
But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirt of God,
for they
are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they
are
examined spiritualy. However, the spiritual man examines all things,
but he
himself is not examined by any man."
Extract from the Letters of Paul
*
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 11:33:18 AM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402171420.413d1678@posting.google.com>...
jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com (jwk) wrote in message news:<c6f5ba32.0402170743.585f6f9e@posting.google.com>...
(Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>...
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
Hmm. maybe they should change their name to..
The American Federation of Christian Atheists.. (G)
-
Going by what I read..
[snip]
This whole diatribe shows perfectly how you xians can read your bible
and come up with thousands of different (mis)interpretations. Reading
for comprehension just doesn't interest you guys at all, does it?
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Have the legs of the lame one drawn up water? Then there is a
proverb in the mouth of the stupid people."
Proverbs 26.7
NOTE: lame.. means someone who.. metaphorically.. walks.. (or goes
about his business) crookedly.
Ok.. jwkinraleigh.. let me break this to you gently.. if I were to
say.. for example.. "My love is live a red red rose".
Would you understand this literally..?
OF COURSE NOT !
If I say.. "you are blind".. would you understand this as meaning..
that you have a visual impairment.. or would you understand it as
meaning you lack insight and understanding.. ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
LET ME GIVE YA A CLUE - METAPHOR
A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily
designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an
implicit comparison, as in "a sea of troubles" or "All the world's a
stage" (Shakespeare).
One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol
--------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't see anything supernatural in claiming some guy was sired by a
god?<<
Nope.. but I'm curious to know why you.. and other atheists do.
The story is common-placed mythology.. the virgin birth myth occurs in
other religions too.
Why some take it literally is beyond me.
Maybe you would like to dispute the existence of magic beanstorks
too.. (g)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing supernatural about rising from the dead?<<
Asks jwkinraleigh.. hopefully.
NOPE.. if someone's heart stops working.. then they are dead.. if the
heart begins to work again.. then they are alive..
It's that simple.
Metaphorically speaking.. of course..(g)
So.. nothing supernatural there either.
((At least two guys did that in your bible, and I'm only talking about
your "new" testament.))
Yes.. and Thor hurls bolts of thunder from the heavens too.. come on
let's be serious.
Why do you guys read things in such a literal sense.. ?
The next thing we know you'll be telling me the snow white and the
seven dwafs isn't history.
-
((Not supernatural? Nothing about miraculous events?))
NOPE.. i COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING ANYWAY..
Just symbolic stories.. that's all.
This is something that both atheiosts and Christians have in common..
they both believe that religion is concerned with the supernatural..
when it's obviuosly not.
I REST MY CASE
Well that was clear as mud. Pray tell us, are you defending or
ridiculing the bible? Your original post seemed to do one. This post
seems to be doing the other.
As for me, I don't believe in any of the supernatural crap in your
bible. Never said I did. I only point out that your bible makes
claims of supernatural events. Which is why it is crap. Metaphors
are one thing, your bible makes outright claims, quite another. If
all those stories were only symbolic then why do xians insist on
killing people over them?
jwk
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| User: "Rudy" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 02:19:23 PM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>...
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
Hmm. maybe they should change their name to..
The American Federation of Christian Atheists.. (G)
-
Going by what I read.. the atheists themselves are paradoxically
claiming to believe in God.. in their statement on their site's main
page (see definition of an atheist life-style below).
I know atheists like hard facts.. so here's a hard fact.
You know nothing about atheists, that is an assumption.
I'd like to state quite plainly, that I really admire Jesus. If he was
a real man, he was a spectacular speciman of humanity. I admire much
of the bible as well, for what it is to me; a work of primarily
fiction meant to demonstrate what was then, proper behaviour for
polite society. It has much to offer.
I even beleive that prayer can be beneficial...but I probably don't to
it like you do.
That is a long way from making me a theist!
Your entire argument states merely that many atheists agree with some
things printed in the bible. Hell, why not? Most people can agree on
fundamental morals some of the time. Especially when you poll people
from the same culture.
As an atheist, my main issue with theistic religion is that it seems
to allow beleivers to divert responsibility away from humanity. If it
isn't God's fault, it is the fault of a non-beleiver, a heretic, "get
in line"!!!
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| User: "Billy Goat" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 12:20:41 PM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>...
Having once been an atheist myself.. I found the stated beliefs of the
atheists at www.atheists.org very interesting..:-)
<snip>
Copied and pasted from http://theapocatastasis.homestead.com/God/ATHEISM.html
--Billy
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| User: "William Klee" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
16 Feb 2004 11:01:48 PM |
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In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>,
Accelerator <accelerator@zonnet.nl> wrote:
Having once been an atheist myself..
Did you hate god when you were an atheist?
--
....and in elder days there were wars in the Heavens between the Ibemmeraphim
and the Angels of the Apple of Knowledge...
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 09:59:36 AM |
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In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major head
trauma?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 11:13:54 PM |
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And so upon Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:59:36 +0000 didst Robibnikoff speak
thusly:
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major head
trauma?
Dunno. But why do they think "having once been an atheist myself" is going
to impress anybody?
I couldn't care *less. They could have been an kumquat for all I care.
There *still isn't any evidence for those "god" things.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 11:49:12 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.02.18.05.13.53.784163@hoo.com-amikchi>...
And so upon Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:59:36 +0000 didst Robibnikoff speak
thusly:
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major head
trauma?
Dunno. But why do they think "having once been an atheist myself" is going
to impress anybody?
I couldn't care *less. They could have been an kumquat for all I care.
There *still isn't any evidence for those "god" things.
Yeah, why do all these idiots think that claiming prior atheism makes
them an authority? Even if we accepted the claim as true, what makes
them think that that claim makes their point? Does the proselytizer's
hand-book tell them it works?
jwk
<Proposal for EAC (ntie) project: Develop a fake proselytizer's
hand-book and sell it to churches. Include lots of bum advice like
claiming prior atheism. Advice that will sound good to theists but is
just silly to thinking people.>
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| User: "Accelerator" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 10:20:15 PM |
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(jwk) wrote in message news:<c6f5ba32.0402180949.10a849ac@posting.google.com>...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.02.18.05.13.53.784163@hoo.com-amikchi>...
And so upon Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:59:36 +0000 didst Robibnikoff speak
thusly:
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major head
trauma?
Dunno. But why do they think "having once been an atheist myself" is going
to impress anybody?
I couldn't care *less. They could have been an kumquat for all I care.
There *still isn't any evidence for those "god" things.
Yeah, why do all these idiots think that claiming prior atheism makes
them an authority? Even if we accepted the claim as true, what makes
them think that that claim makes their point? Does the proselytizer's
hand-book tell them it works?
Itmust be way pat bilbo bagguins bed time cos hes in a bad mood..
shame you ain't got no argument blbo.
Tut tut.. lilttle bilbo hasn't even grown out of his labels yet..he
he(g)
Shall I change your nappy.. you full of *****.
Even More Drivel
<Proposal for EAC (ntie) project: Develop a fake proselytizer's
hand-book and sell it to churches. Include lots of bum advice like
claiming prior atheism. Advice that will sound good to theists but is
Absolute Drivel..
just silly to thinking people.>
Hmm.. let's kick arse..
"Thinking people Bilbo".. when was the last time you has an original
thought.. ?
(Bilbo sucks on his thumb frantically.. He can't remember..:-(
Do wanna tell us about it then.. B (g)
Bibbo do us a favour and grow up.
If you want to discuss.. then make nmy day.. but cut out the dribble.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
mediocre minds"
Albert Einstein
*
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 09:23:55 PM |
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And so upon Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:49:12 -0800 didst jwk speak thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.02.18.05.13.53.784163@hoo.com-amikchi>...
And so upon Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:59:36 +0000 didst Robibnikoff speak
thusly:
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major head
trauma?
Dunno. But why do they think "having once been an atheist myself" is going
to impress anybody?
I couldn't care *less. They could have been an kumquat for all I care.
There *still isn't any evidence for those "god" things.
Yeah, why do all these idiots think that claiming prior atheism makes
them an authority? Even if we accepted the claim as true, what makes
them think that that claim makes their point? Does the proselytizer's
hand-book tell them it works?
Yes, yes it does.
I've seen it in more than one place (back in my christian days) and heard
it many times more about the tactic of "relating" to people. It's a sales
hook. Common and crass but there it is...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 08:57:41 AM |
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In article <pan.2004.02.18.05.13.53.784163@hoo.com-amikchi>, Mark K. Bilbo
says...
And so upon Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:59:36 +0000 didst Robibnikoff speak
thusly:
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major head
trauma?
Dunno. But why do they think "having once been an atheist myself" is going
to impress anybody?
I couldn't care *less. They could have been an kumquat for all I care.
<snicker>
There *still isn't any evidence for those "god" things.
Ed Zachary! :)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Accelerator" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 02:51:38 PM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<ITqYb.3517$_4.147@www.newsranger.com>...
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major head
trauma?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
Poor Robyn.. sorry.. I failed to mention.. I was seven years old when
I became an atheist.. So.. naturally.. I changed when I grew up.. :-)
If you tried doing some seriuous reading.. you would also find that
there's nothing supernatural about religion.. at all.
You.. and many others like yourself.. just imagine this.. but it's not
true.
If your honest you must admit that all you know about religion is
based on hearsay. I guess you never thought of checking for yourself.
Got to give the guy a chance though.. so show me evidence that
religion is concerned with the supernatural.. evidence that I can't
trash easily.. and I'll eat my words.. (G)
--------------------------------------------------------
`Hearsay evidence is not dependable evidence,' said the Master, `do
not go on hearsay, and do not accept any teaching on hearsay.'
`No', said the sceptic, that is why I came to find out for myself.'
`Furthermore,' continued the Master: `no teaching should be accepted
because of reverence for the teacher, or reverence for sacred
sayings.'
`No', broke in the questioner. `I should say that a teaching should
be accepted only if it is logical and satisfies the reason.'
`No', continued the Master. `No teaching should be accepted merely
because it is logical, or because the teacher of it can win in
argument with those holding other views.'
`Oh,' exclaimed the man, suprised; `then for what reason should one
accept a teaching?'
`You should accept it only if you yourself can prove out of your own
experience that it makes for contentment and well-being.'
Extract from Buddhist Scriptures
*
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 03:57:37 PM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in
news:8320133.0402171251.c9400d0@posting.google.com:
<snippety-doo-dah>
Got to give the guy a chance though.. so show me evidence that
religion is concerned with the supernatural.. evidence that I can't
trash easily.. and I'll eat my words.. (G)
I've got something you can eat:
Ezekiel 4:12 & 4:15.
Wonder Bread.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
"You should realize Usenet is a strange reality where you see people
beating up a patch of grass where nine years ago there used to be a
horse. " 01 July 2003, talk.origins
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 05:28:16 PM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in
news:8320133.0402171251.c9400d0@posting.google.com:
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:<ITqYb.3517$_4.147@www.newsranger.com>...
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>,
Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major
head trauma?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
Poor Robyn.. sorry.. I failed to mention.. I was seven years old when
I became an atheist..
Good for you.
So.. naturally.. I changed when I grew up.. :-)
So just how much brain did they remove in your lobotomy?
If you tried doing some seriuous reading.. you would also find that
there's nothing supernatural about religion.. at all.
If I did 'seriuous reading'(sic), I might well become as much of a loon
as you.
<SNIP>
If your honest you must admit that all you know about religion is
based on hearsay. I guess you never thought of checking for yourself.
Did the checking. Confirmed what I thought.
Got to give the guy a chance though.. so show me evidence that
religion is concerned with the supernatural.. evidence that I can't
trash easily.. and I'll eat my words.. (G)
Evidence that religion is concerned with the supernatural = bible, koran,
bhagavad gita, book of mormom - I'm sure you can think of a few others
yourself.
HTH.
Llanzlan.
<SNIP>
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
17 Feb 2004 04:23:45 PM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in
news:8320133.0402171251.c9400d0@posting.google.com:
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:<ITqYb.3517$_4.147@www.newsranger.com>...
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>,
Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major
head trauma?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
Poor Robyn.. sorry.. I failed to mention.. I was seven years old when
I became an atheist.. So.. naturally.. I changed when I grew up.. :-)
Too bad.
If you tried doing some seriuous reading.. you would also find that
there's nothing supernatural about religion.. at all.
We realize that there isn't anything supernatural about religion. It's
the religious people who think that.
You.. and many others like yourself.. just imagine this.. but it's not
true.
If your honest you must admit that all you know about religion is
based on hearsay. I guess you never thought of checking for yourself.
*****. Many of us used to be religious. Some of us for a long time
and quite devoutly. And as part of that religion, we were taught about
"supernatural" beings called gods and angels and demons...
But without hearsay and written stories, how does one come to believe or
discover religion?
Got to give the guy a chance though.. so show me evidence that
religion is concerned with the supernatural.. evidence that I can't
trash easily.. and I'll eat my words.. (G)
How do you explain the talking snake, the "tree of knowledge of good and
evil", the resurection of Jesus, heaven and hell, god itself, ...
Either they are mythical and allegorical or they are supernatural. If
they are mythical and allegorical, then why do we need religion? If they
are supernatural, you lose, except that you can't prove that they are
supernatural.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Accelerator" |
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| Title: Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 03:51:53 PM |
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Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
We realize that there isn't anything supernatural about religion. It's
the religious people who think that.
I have read many posts here.. by atheists.. who are claiming that the
Bible is full of miracles.. and supernatural beings. Even though you
may realize this.. there are still many who don't.
-------------------------------------------------------------
But without hearsay and written stories, how does one come to believe or
discover religion?
This depends of how deeply one wants to go.. people's needs differ.
For many it would be enough to know religious Law.. it seems like we
have no real law presently. No one really listens to those boys in
government.. so all the laws they keep making seem rather pointless.
We need a law that we can all agree with.. and self-regulation from
within.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"The men who discovered for us the Law of Love were greater scientists
than any of our modern scientists. Only our explorations have not gone
far enough and so it is not possible for every one to see all its
working.
Such, at any rate, is the hallucination, if it is one, under which I
am laboring. The more I work at this law the more I feel the delight
in life, the delight in the scheme of this universe. It gives me a
peace and a meaning of the mysteries of nature that I have no power to
describe."
Gandhi
----------------------------------------------------------------
Then there's religious symbolism and the metaphysics.. There are many
good writers that can explain this.. Carl Jung.. Joseph Cambell.. are
a good foundation course. Then there are many occult classics..
alchemists like Thomas Aquinas.. Hermetic writings. Gurjief.. and
William Blake… etc. Let people find their own way of expressing
religion.. which best suits their individual personality.
I'll answer you other points later.. I'm gonna start a new topic to
challenge these illusions that many have concerning the
supernatural... and i'll address your list of "supernatural" events on
there.
Maybe I'll call it something like.. The Atheist Illusion..:-)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tell me... does God sound like a supernatural being in the contxt of
what is being said below.. ?
-
Mohammed was asked by his relative, Ali: "What am I to do that I may
not waste my time?"
The Prophet answered: "Learn to know thyself! He who has understood
himself has understood God"
*
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 10:22:08 PM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in
news:8320133.0402181351.3c4310e3@posting.google.com:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
We realize that there isn't anything supernatural about religion.
It's the religious people who think that.
I have read many posts here.. by atheists.. who are claiming that the
Bible is full of miracles.. and supernatural beings. Even though you
may realize this.. there are still many who don't.
Well, that's what those stories in the bible say. And that's what the
people who believe them tell us.
-------------------------------------------------------------
But without hearsay and written stories, how does one come to believe
or discover religion?
This depends of how deeply one wants to go.. people's needs differ.
For many it would be enough to know religious Law.. it seems like we
have no real law presently. No one really listens to those boys in
government.. so all the laws they keep making seem rather pointless.
We need a law that we can all agree with.. and self-regulation from
within.
What does this have to do with religion?
--------------------------------------------------------------
"The men who discovered for us the Law of Love were greater scientists
than any of our modern scientists. Only our explorations have not gone
far enough and so it is not possible for every one to see all its
working.
Such, at any rate, is the hallucination, if it is one, under which I
am laboring. The more I work at this law the more I feel the delight
in life, the delight in the scheme of this universe. It gives me a
peace and a meaning of the mysteries of nature that I have no power to
describe."
Gandhi
----------------------------------------------------------------
Then there's religious symbolism and the metaphysics.. There are many
good writers that can explain this.. Carl Jung.. Joseph Cambell.. are
a good foundation course. Then there are many occult classics..
alchemists like Thomas Aquinas.. Hermetic writings. Gurjief.. and
William Blake… etc. Let people find their own way of expressing
religion.. which best suits their individual personality.
And how many of those people expressing belief in some religion think
that there is something "supernatural" about their religion? Most would
be my guess.
I'll answer you other points later.. I'm gonna start a new topic to
challenge these illusions that many have concerning the
supernatural... and i'll address your list of "supernatural" events on
there.
Maybe I'll call it something like.. The Atheist Illusion..:-)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tell me... does God sound like a supernatural being in the contxt of
what is being said below.. ?
-
Mohammed was asked by his relative, Ali: "What am I to do that I may
not waste my time?"
The Prophet answered: "Learn to know thyself! He who has understood
himself has understood God"
Then why bother calling it god?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 07:34:34 PM |
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On 18 Feb 2004 13:51:53 -0800, (Accelerator)
wrote:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
We realize that there isn't anything supernatural about religion. It's
the religious people who think that.
I have read many posts here.. by atheists.. who are claiming that the
Bible is full of miracles.. and supernatural beings. Even though you
may realize this.. there are still many who don't.
-------------------------------------------------------------
But without hearsay and written stories, how does one come to believe or
discover religion?
This depends of how deeply one wants to go.. people's needs differ.
For many it would be enough to know religious Law.. it seems like we
have no real law presently. No one really listens to those boys in
government.. so all the laws they keep making seem rather pointless.
We need a law that we can all agree with.. and self-regulation from
within.
I want to go *beyond* law.
I want to know what is good what is virtuous.
A government or a religion may decalare any law that it finds
expedient.
What matters is what makes for peace happiness and wisdom.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"The men who discovered for us the Law of Love were greater scientists
than any of our modern scientists. Only our explorations have not gone
far enough and so it is not possible for every one to see all its
working.
Such, at any rate, is the hallucination, if it is one, under which I
am laboring. The more I work at this law the more I feel the delight
in life, the delight in the scheme of this universe. It gives me a
peace and a meaning of the mysteries of nature that I have no power to
describe."
Gandhi
Nice quote - great man.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Then there's religious symbolism and the metaphysics.. There are many
good writers that can explain this.. Carl Jung.. Joseph Cambell.. are
a good foundation course. Then there are many occult classics..
alchemists like Thomas Aquinas.. Hermetic writings. Gurjief.. and
William Blake… etc. Let people find their own way of expressing
religion.. which best suits their individual personality.
Thanks for giving me permission.
If I find a religion without God - will you throw rocks at me?
(metaphorical of course)
If I find (somepart of) truth and wisdom and peace but its a godless
one, will you condem me and call me a fool?
I'll answer you other points later.. I'm gonna start a new topic to
challenge these illusions that many have concerning the
supernatural... and i'll address your list of "supernatural" events on
there.
I am not really interested in the supernatural - and that probably
goes for most other atheists as well.
Maybe I'll call it something like.. The Atheist Illusion..:-)
Call it what you will.
All I ask:
Try and say something meaningfull, interesting and challenging if you
are able.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tell me... does God sound like a supernatural being in the contxt of
what is being said below.. ?
Mohammed was asked by his relative, Ali: "What am I to do that I may
not waste my time?"
The Prophet answered: "Learn to know thyself! He who has understood
himself has understood God"
It doesnt say one way or the other - it just says the word "God" -
obviously we are already supposed to know what the word means when we
read this.
So it is of no help.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 11:41:10 AM |
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(Accelerator) wrote in message news:<8320133.0402171251.c9400d0@posting.google.com>...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<ITqYb.3517$_4.147@www.newsranger.com>...
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major head
trauma?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
Poor Robyn.. sorry.. I failed to mention.. I was seven years old when
I became an atheist.. So.. naturally.. I changed when I grew up.. :-)
Ha ha
If you tried doing some seriuous reading.. you would also find that
there's nothing supernatural about religion.. at all.
You keep saying that. Doesn't make it so.
You.. and many others like yourself.. just imagine this.. but it's not
true.
If your honest you must admit that all you know about religion is
based on hearsay. I guess you never thought of checking for yourself.
This is the commonest mistakes christers make when they come here -
they assume we know less about their scripture and the theological
interpetations of it than they do. I may not be an expert myself, but
many of AAs members are. BTW telling people that you know more then
they do is a really poor debating technique that most of us grew out
of when we were 7.
Got to give the guy a chance though.. so show me evidence that
religion is concerned with the supernatural.. evidence that I can't
trash easily.. and I'll eat my words.. (G)
I never knew a christer who couldn't reinterpret any passage in the
babble to mean whatever he wanted. So I wouldn't expect you to admit
to anything. I already remarked upon your messiah's conception and
the raising of both him and John the Baptist, and you pooh-poohed all
three as non-miracles. If those weren't miracles then nothing is.
You win by refusing to admit you lost.
jwk
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS - Hard Evidence That Atheists REALLY Do Believe In God |
18 Feb 2004 10:31:41 AM |
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In article <8320133.0402171251.c9400d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<ITqYb.3517$_4.147@www.newsranger.com>...
In article <8320133.0402161623.28c415d0@posting.google.com>, Accelerator says...
Having once been an atheist myself..
What kind of mental illness caused you to change? Or was it a major head
trauma?
Poor Robyn..
I don't want or need your "pity", thanks much. I think you need all you can
spare for yourself.
sorry.. I failed to mention.. I was seven years old when
I became an atheist..
Actually you were born an atheist - as was I. At some point, your parents must
have forced their theist beliefs on you. Thankfully I was spared such abuse.
So.. naturally.. I changed when I grew up.. :-)
And it certainly wasn't a change for the better.
If you tried doing some seriuous reading.. you would also find that
there's nothing supernatural about religion.. at all.
I have done a great deal of reading about religion - probably more than you
have. And almost every single religion incorporates the supernatural as a major
part of its belief.
You.. and many others like yourself.. just imagine this.. but it's not
true.
I'm sorry, but were you actually trying to make some sense here?
I'm assuming that you're saying that the supernatural isn't part and parcel of
religion. Oh really? Then prove it. Anytime you're ready.
If your honest you must admit that all you know about religion is
based on hearsay.
See above - Obviously you're wrong.
I guess you never thought of checking for yourself.
LOL - What in the world makes you think that you can speak for me, much less for
anyone but yourself? I've read about and studied several religions - not to
mention that I have read the christian bible cover to cover. Interesting bit of
mythology, but there's no evidence that it has anything to do with reality.
Got any? Other than YOUR opinion and heresay?
Got to give the guy a chance though..
What guy would this be?
so show me evidence that
religion is concerned with the supernatural..
Sorry, but I never made such a statement, so the burden of proof isn't on me.
evidence that I can't
trash easily.. and I'll eat my words.. (G)
Sure, no problem. Prove your god actually exists first.
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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