| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
03 Oct 2006 11:20:04 PM |
| Object: |
Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
The Bible should be taught in every classroom in America. The literary
qualities alone are sufficient enough reason to do so. America can not spend
her energies catering to the crying of the Jews and the Atheists, both of
whom have an aversion to anything Christian. The overwhelming majority of
people embrace the Bible and should have cause to expect it to be taught to
our children.
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/10/32006h.asp
....This academic year, hundreds of public school districts nationwide are
offering elective Bible courses in high schools, which can be legal if it's
done carefully. The Supreme Court, in its 1963 ruling that barred ceremonial
school Bible readings, said the Bible is "worthy of study for its literary
and historic qualities" so long as material is "presented objectively as
part of a secular program of education." Surveys show widespread biblical
illiteracy among young Americans, much to the distress of high school and
college teachers who recognize scripture's central role in culture and
history. Competing curricula are offered by the Bible Literacy Project and
the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools.
--
----------
J Yöung
youngopinions@aol.com
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| User: "John D. Wentzky" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
04 Oct 2006 02:55:55 PM |
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"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i82u542r8iu83@corp.supernews.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:yUTUg.40631$KR1.16012@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i6taekdso0ida@corp.supernews.com...
The Bible should be taught in every classroom in America.
Now why would we want to do that.
It is a man made book, written and interpreted over the ages to mean
what
the people in power wanted it to mean.
LOL!
Does this mean that you think that all other books are somehow not
manmade?
What it means is I have a healthy suspicion of the bible as being the
words
of God.
I do not give the bible as much high respect as quite a few religious
people
seem to do.
I am not knocking them for that, but I do not support their desire to
force
that belief of their bible on everyone.
And yes I am on the right, and yes I believe in God. I just do not need a
bible to tell me what to believe.
Well, if you read the Bible closely enough you will notice how it oftentimes
doesn't refer to what is written as God's words, per se. Many times it
states who actually wrote a particular book, etc, etc.
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
04 Oct 2006 03:13:55 PM |
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"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:6lUUg.40638$KR1.24668@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i82u542r8iu83@corp.supernews.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:yUTUg.40631$KR1.16012@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i6taekdso0ida@corp.supernews.com...
The Bible should be taught in every classroom in America.
Now why would we want to do that.
It is a man made book, written and interpreted over the ages to mean
what
the people in power wanted it to mean.
LOL!
Does this mean that you think that all other books are somehow not
manmade?
What it means is I have a healthy suspicion of the bible as being the
words
of God.
I do not give the bible as much high respect as quite a few religious
people
seem to do.
I am not knocking them for that, but I do not support their desire to
force
that belief of their bible on everyone.
And yes I am on the right, and yes I believe in God. I just do not need
a
bible to tell me what to believe.
Well, if you read the Bible closely enough you will notice how it
oftentimes
doesn't refer to what is written as God's words, per se. Many times it
states who actually wrote a particular book, etc, etc.
True enough, and there are many other books written at the same time, that
were never included into the NT. And again that was a man made decision
because of the words of the other books did not express what these men that
made the NT wanted to hear.
.
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| User: "John D. Wentzky" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
04 Oct 2006 04:20:10 PM |
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"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i85e88iqu1510@corp.supernews.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:6lUUg.40638$KR1.24668@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i82u542r8iu83@corp.supernews.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:yUTUg.40631$KR1.16012@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i6taekdso0ida@corp.supernews.com...
The Bible should be taught in every classroom in America.
Now why would we want to do that.
It is a man made book, written and interpreted over the ages to mean
what
the people in power wanted it to mean.
LOL!
Does this mean that you think that all other books are somehow not
manmade?
What it means is I have a healthy suspicion of the bible as being the
words
of God.
I do not give the bible as much high respect as quite a few religious
people
seem to do.
I am not knocking them for that, but I do not support their desire to
force
that belief of their bible on everyone.
And yes I am on the right, and yes I believe in God. I just do not need
a
bible to tell me what to believe.
Well, if you read the Bible closely enough you will notice how it
oftentimes
doesn't refer to what is written as God's words, per se. Many times it
states who actually wrote a particular book, etc, etc.
True enough, and there are many other books written at the same time, that
were never included into the NT. And again that was a man made decision
because of the words of the other books did not express what these men
that
made the NT wanted to hear.
I am unfamiliar with the books you are referring to there, unless you mean
the apocrypha.
.
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
04 Oct 2006 04:39:23 PM |
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"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:4AVUg.18186$GY5.10319@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i85e88iqu1510@corp.supernews.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:6lUUg.40638$KR1.24668@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i82u542r8iu83@corp.supernews.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:yUTUg.40631$KR1.16012@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12i6taekdso0ida@corp.supernews.com...
The Bible should be taught in every classroom in America.
Now why would we want to do that.
It is a man made book, written and interpreted over the ages to
mean
what
the people in power wanted it to mean.
LOL!
Does this mean that you think that all other books are somehow not
manmade?
What it means is I have a healthy suspicion of the bible as being the
words
of God.
I do not give the bible as much high respect as quite a few religious
people
seem to do.
I am not knocking them for that, but I do not support their desire to
force
that belief of their bible on everyone.
And yes I am on the right, and yes I believe in God. I just do not
need
a
bible to tell me what to believe.
Well, if you read the Bible closely enough you will notice how it
oftentimes
doesn't refer to what is written as God's words, per se. Many times it
states who actually wrote a particular book, etc, etc.
True enough, and there are many other books written at the same time,
that
were never included into the NT. And again that was a man made decision
because of the words of the other books did not express what these men
that
made the NT wanted to hear.
I am unfamiliar with the books you are referring to there, unless you mean
the apocrypha.
They go under many names, the established church calls them herasy(sp), but
the Gnostic Gospels are also used as names of these books. But it is a know
fact that the early church selected only certain Christian writings of the
time to include into what is today known as the NT.
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| User: "Chellie" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
05 Oct 2006 02:01:40 AM |
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Dana wrote:
True enough, and there are many other books written at the same time,
that were never included into the NT. And again that was a man made
decision because of the words of the other books did not express what
these men that made the NT wanted to hear.
**********************************************************************************************************
The mentioning of books that were written but never was included in the
NT is very tiring. People have a very difficult time trying to obey
what's already written and others are asking for more???! Actually many
don't believe what's written in the OT nor NT so why are you all
interested in what you all feel wasn't included? If a person truly
wanted to live up to what's written in the Bible, don't you all think
adding more would be a huge load? I am --- I don't know even how to
describe my feeling now but the talk of the Bible being translated so
many times and how do we know if it's God's teachings, blah, blah,
blah. Simple: go to God. He can talk, ask Him. I mean really, if you
all are saying you don't know if the Bible is correct, then what are
you doing? Why follow or try to follow a book you are not sure will
help you enter heaven? I mean let's be realistic. Isn't that why you
all call yourselves Christians and say you are of God/following God? Or
are you all doing it for the fun of it?
Dana, the comment of it was man-made decision and all. Where's the
proof? I bet you read this in some book and you took it as "gospel" and
ran with it BUT whatever God has in the Bible you question it. I never
ceases to amaze me: people will read all these other books that are
written by man and take it for face value without question but when it
comes to the Bible people fight about it. Why don't you all take the
Bible for face value? I know why you don't and you know why also. One
day, just one day...
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Chellie" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
05 Oct 2006 01:46:32 AM |
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Dana wrote:
What it means is I have a healthy suspicion of the bible as being the words
of God.
I do not give the bible as much high respect as quite a few religious people
seem to do.
I am not knocking them for that, but I do not support their desire to force
that belief of their bible on everyone.
And yes I am on the right, and yes I believe in God. I just do not need a
bible to tell me what to believe.
Healthy huh? What's healthy about it? I am curious about your response
to this question so please reply. Anyways, once again you don't believe
that the Bible is what you need to know the commandments of God. I
remember your posting about not needing the Bible to know/understand
God. You are entitled to that belief.
I for one don't force anyone to believe in God as much as I do. It's
according to that person's faith. A true Christian could tell someone
about God or what have you but forcing them isn't Christian-like. A
preacher's job is to warn and teach the people. I am not a preacher
neither do I desire to be. It's a very hard job. I really do despise
this talk of "having a relationship with God" and "having God in their
hearts" and things like that. If they had God in their hearts, some of
their actions they won't do. People are not dumb. They know when they
are doing wrong but do it anyway. Their excuse is God is loving and He
sent His only begotten son to save us... Alright let's think on a human
scale: If you sent your only child out to be a sacrifice, won't you
want people to respect and show regards to the sacrifice? I know I
would and you all would too. But keep making excuses, one day reality
is going to come but it'll be too late... When I say "you" I mean all
who's guilty. If this statement doesn't pertain to you, then no need to
feel "convicted".
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
05 Oct 2006 08:35:25 AM |
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On 5-Oct-2006, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> wrote:
I for one don't force anyone to believe in God as much as I do.
You are lying - your entire premise in this thread is to do just that.
Susan
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| User: "Chellie" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
06 Oct 2006 01:47:06 PM |
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wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> wrote:
I for one don't force anyone to believe in God as much as I do.
You are lying - your entire premise in this thread is to do just that.
Susan
**********************************************************************************************************
To call me a liar or say I am lying is a very big insult to me (not
that you care). I have God in Heaven that watches ALL I do. So yes, I
make sure I don't lie, no matter how small (white lies, exaggerations,
etc.) amongst other sins. I am not forcing anyone to believe in God
like I do. God doesn't force people so why should I? Either you obey
Him or you don't. I state what I feel concerning the topics/posts and
that's it. If you feel I am "forcing" you, then maybe it's something in
my postings that's convicting you...
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 01:13:37 PM |
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"Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1160160426.187956.64410@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> wrote:
I for one don't force anyone to believe in God as much as I do.
You are lying - your entire premise in this thread is to do just that.
Susan
**********************************************************************************************************
To call me a liar or say I am lying is a very big insult to me (not
that you care). I have God in Heaven that watches ALL I do.
Doesn't that creep you out a little?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
06 Oct 2006 03:03:05 PM |
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Chellie wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> wrote:
I for one don't force anyone to believe in God as much as I do.
You are lying - your entire premise in this thread is to do just that.
Susan
**********************************************************************************************************
To call me a liar or say I am lying is a very big insult to me (not
that you care). I have God in Heaven that watches ALL I do.
===>That is a lie in itself.
You have "God" in YOUR HEAD, and only imagine there is a "heaven"
from where your imaginary "god" is watching you, like the boogie
man of your childhood. -- L.
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| User: "Lucifer" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
06 Oct 2006 03:19:04 PM |
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Chellie wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> wrote:
I for one don't force anyone to believe in God as much as I do.
You are lying - your entire premise in this thread is to do just that.
Susan
**********************************************************************************************************
To call me a liar or say I am lying is a very big insult to me (not
that you care). I have God in Heaven that watches ALL I do. So yes, I
make sure I don't lie, no matter how small (white lies, exaggerations,
etc.) amongst other sins. I am not forcing anyone to believe in God
like I do. God doesn't force people so why should I? Either you obey
Him or you don't. I state what I feel concerning the topics/posts and
that's it. If you feel I am "forcing" you, then maybe it's something in
my postings that's convicting you...
Your god is a pervert....hehehehehehehe
--
Lucifer, EAC Librarian of Dark Tomes of Excessive Evil and General
Purpose Igor
"Don't worry, I won't bite.......hard"
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
06 Oct 2006 06:19:11 PM |
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On 6 Oct 2006 11:47:06 -0700, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1160160426.187956.64410@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> wrote:
I for one don't force anyone to believe in God as much as I do.
You are lying - your entire premise in this thread is to do just that.
Susan
**********************************************************************************************************
To call me a liar or say I am lying is a very big insult to me (not
that you care). I have God in Heaven that watches ALL I do.
Prove any god exists. Then prove that statement.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Chellie" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
07 Oct 2006 09:21:30 PM |
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Attila wrote:
Prove any god exists. Then prove that statement.
**************************************************************************************************************
I can't make you or anyone believe that there's a God. The belief and
faith is up to you. If you don't believe that God exists, then you just
don't believe.
It's like trying to get someone to believe in aliens. Either they do or
they don't. I for one believe that God is real.
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
08 Oct 2006 12:11:44 AM |
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Chellie wrote:
Attila wrote:
Prove any god exists. Then prove that statement.
**************************************************************************************************************
I can't make you or anyone believe that there's a God. The belief and
faith is up to you. If you don't believe that God exists, then you just
don't believe.
It's like trying to get someone to believe in aliens. Either they do or
they don't. I for one believe that God is real.
The main difference between the two is that you can show using facts
and statistics that life can and probably does develop on other
planets, that it can achieve multicellular organisms, and that it can
evolve into complex organisms. That there are at least some planets
that may have evolved intelligent species can also be show. The main
marker for determining that life as we know it or can currently
conceive it exists is the presence of highly reactive gasses in the
atmosphere in significant concentrations, such as oxygen. The ONLY
reason that we have an oxygen atmosphere is the presence of green
plants. What you cannot show without more definitive evidence is that
aliens have visited Earth at any time during our recorded history.
With the exception of the last statement, you cannot do any of those
things in showing that a deity is real.
Clarke's Law:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Mark Sebree
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Chellie" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
08 Oct 2006 11:14:36 PM |
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Mark Sebree wrote:
The main difference between the two is that you can show using facts
and statistics that life can and probably does develop on other
planets, that it can achieve multicellular organisms, and that it can
evolve into complex organisms. That there are at least some planets
that may have evolved intelligent species can also be show. The main
marker for determining that life as we know it or can currently
conceive it exists is the presence of highly reactive gasses in the
atmosphere in significant concentrations, such as oxygen. The ONLY
reason that we have an oxygen atmosphere is the presence of green
plants. What you cannot show without more definitive evidence is that
aliens have visited Earth at any time during our recorded history.
With the exception of the last statement, you cannot do any of those
things in showing that a deity is real.
Clarke's Law:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
**********************************************************************************************************
Well, I for one don't believe in aliens, Big Foot and all those other
mythical creatures. If you want the "proof", there was a TV special on
Big Foot and they found out that people have been making Big Foot's
footprints and placing them in surrounding areas. Plus someone
confessed that it was a prank within their family for decades. If
aliens are real, then they are. I know unicorns, Leviathan and Behemoth
are/were real for the Bible speaks of them. Man has made them to be
mythical creatures.
Unicorn - a mythical creature resembling a horse, with a single horn in
the center of its forehead: often symbolic of chastity or purity./an
animal mentioned in the Bible, Deut. 33:17: now believed by some to be
a description of a wild ox or rhinoceros.
Numbers 23:22, Numbers 24:8, Deuteronomy 33:17, Job 39:9, Job 39:10,
Psalm 22:21, Psalm 29:6, Psalm 92:10, Isaiah 34:7.
Leviathan - a sea monster
Job 41:1, Psalm 74:14, Psalm 104:26, Isaiah 27:1
Behemoth - any creature or thing of monstrous size or power
Job 40:15
My family and I speculated that an unicorn might be a rhino.
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 05:00:03 PM |
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Chellie wrote:
Mark Sebree wrote:
The main difference between the two is that you can show using facts
and statistics that life can and probably does develop on other
planets, that it can achieve multicellular organisms, and that it can
evolve into complex organisms. That there are at least some planets
that may have evolved intelligent species can also be show. The main
marker for determining that life as we know it or can currently
conceive it exists is the presence of highly reactive gasses in the
atmosphere in significant concentrations, such as oxygen. The ONLY
reason that we have an oxygen atmosphere is the presence of green
plants. What you cannot show without more definitive evidence is that
aliens have visited Earth at any time during our recorded history.
With the exception of the last statement, you cannot do any of those
things in showing that a deity is real.
Clarke's Law:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
**********************************************************************************************************
Well, I for one don't believe in aliens, Big Foot and all those other
mythical creatures.
But you believe in other mythological creatures like deities, angels,
unicorns, leviathans, and behemoths. Therefore, your reply was a lie
since it was self-contradictory. Just because something was mentioned
in your book of mythology does not mean that it ever existed. Stories
of leviathans under any number of names have been around as long as men
have sailed the seas. Behemoths are similar travelers' stories from
the land as well as from the see. They exist in just about ever
culture in one form or another.
The rest of your post is a strawman. All I was talking about is
aliens, as in life on other planets. I did not mention anything that
was mythological, as you grouped my reply with. At a guess, you either
did not read, or could not understand what I actually wrote.
Perhaps you can explain why you think that life on other planets is not
possible.
If you want the "proof", there was a TV special on
Big Foot and they found out that people have been making Big Foot's
footprints and placing them in surrounding areas. Plus someone
confessed that it was a prank within their family for decades. If
aliens are real, then they are. I know unicorns, Leviathan and Behemoth
are/were real for the Bible speaks of them. Man has made them to be
mythical creatures.
Care to cite where you got these definitions from?
Unicorn - a mythical creature resembling a horse, with a single horn in
the center of its forehead: often symbolic of chastity or purity./an
animal mentioned in the Bible, Deut. 33:17: now believed by some to be
a description of a wild ox or rhinoceros.
Numbers 23:22, Numbers 24:8, Deuteronomy 33:17, Job 39:9, Job 39:10,
Psalm 22:21, Psalm 29:6, Psalm 92:10, Isaiah 34:7.
Also shows up in other, older mythologies, from which the Hebrews no
doubt borrows as they did with so much of they mythology. I found an
ancient chinese analog without any problem.
Leviathan - a sea monster
Job 41:1, Psalm 74:14, Psalm 104:26, Isaiah 27:1
An ancient tale of the sea that probably dates back to the first
sailors, or even earlier. Certainly before the desert nomads of the
ancient world heard about it. The Norse had a similar mythological
serpent that was a child of Loki, which predates contact with
Christianity. And that is just one example.
Behemoth - any creature or thing of monstrous size or power
Job 40:15
Again, ancient tales from travelers. Similar beasts show up in
practically every ancient culture. The Cyclops of Greek mythology fits
the bill nicely, and the Hebrews were more likely to take from the
Greeks than the other way around, since the Greeks were the scholars of
the day.
My family and I speculated that an unicorn might be a rhino.
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
Now, care to explain how any of your strawmen have anything to do with
the possibility of life on other planets? That was all that my reply
addressed, and it actually only deals with science, not superstition
and ignorance.
Explain why you think that life cannot exist on other planets, in an
intelligent, reasoned, and educated manner. I have absolutely no
interested in anything that your mythology claims, since it is
completely non sequitor to my question.
Also state how much and what level of science you can follow, as well
as the depth of general scientific knowledge you have. I do not want
to sent my rebuttal so far over your head that you cannot understand
it.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 06:56:32 AM |
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On 8 Oct 2006 21:14:36 -0700, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1160367276.210532.289480@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Mark Sebree wrote:
The main difference between the two is that you can show using facts
and statistics that life can and probably does develop on other
planets, that it can achieve multicellular organisms, and that it can
evolve into complex organisms. That there are at least some planets
that may have evolved intelligent species can also be show. The main
marker for determining that life as we know it or can currently
conceive it exists is the presence of highly reactive gasses in the
atmosphere in significant concentrations, such as oxygen. The ONLY
reason that we have an oxygen atmosphere is the presence of green
plants. What you cannot show without more definitive evidence is that
aliens have visited Earth at any time during our recorded history.
With the exception of the last statement, you cannot do any of those
things in showing that a deity is real.
Clarke's Law:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
**********************************************************************************************************
Well, I for one don't believe in aliens, Big Foot and all those other
mythical creatures.
Belief is irrelevant. Try sticking to provable and supportable fact.
If you want the "proof", there was a TV special on
Big Foot and they found out that people have been making Big Foot's
footprints and placing them in surrounding areas.
Would you like some examples of people who used tricks to prove they
were gods? History is full of them.
Plus someone
confessed that it was a prank within their family for decades. If
aliens are real, then they are. I know unicorns, Leviathan and Behemoth
are/were real for the Bible speaks of them.
Exactly how do you know that your bible is true? What supports it?
Man has made them to be
mythical creatures.
Unicorn - a mythical creature resembling a horse, with a single horn in
the center of its forehead: often symbolic of chastity or purity./an
animal mentioned in the Bible, Deut. 33:17: now believed by some to be
a description of a wild ox or rhinoceros.
Numbers 23:22, Numbers 24:8, Deuteronomy 33:17, Job 39:9, Job 39:10,
Psalm 22:21, Psalm 29:6, Psalm 92:10, Isaiah 34:7.
Leviathan - a sea monster
Job 41:1, Psalm 74:14, Psalm 104:26, Isaiah 27:1
Behemoth - any creature or thing of monstrous size or power
Job 40:15
Bus since your bible has not been proven to be true in these
particular instances (or in much beyond some minor geographical
locations and historical figures) your references can be ignored.
Their validity is unproven.
My family and I speculated that an unicorn might be a rhino.
Based upon what other than pure guesswork?
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Prove any such person ever existed.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
08 Oct 2006 07:54:42 AM |
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On 7 Oct 2006 19:21:30 -0700, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1160274090.030064.40300@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Attila wrote:
Prove any god exists. Then prove that statement.
**************************************************************************************************************
I can't make you or anyone believe that there's a God. The belief and
faith is up to you. If you don't believe that God exists, then you just
don't believe.
It's like trying to get someone to believe in aliens. Either they do or
they don't. I for one believe that God is real.
If you can't provide the requested proof don't present such statements
as if they are facts and not simply your opinion.
I did not ask about a belief. I asked you to prove statements you
made which clearly asserted a god exists. An assertion of fact.
I see you clipped the statement in question.
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Another opinion presented as if it was a fact. Your statement clearly
asserts such a person actually existed yet you admit you cannot prove
it.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Chellie" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
08 Oct 2006 10:59:47 PM |
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Attila wrote:
I did not ask about a belief. I asked you to prove statements you
made which clearly asserted a god exists. An assertion of fact.
**************************************************************************************************************
Also another thing: For me to proof that God exists, you would have to
believe. Even though you didn't ask about belief, proof and belief ties
in together. God isn't science. I can't take a piece of God and place
Him in a test tube and say "Tada! Here's God!" It doesn't work that
way. God isn't "worldly". He's spiritual so you must be of a spiritual
mind to "see" Him. Bible says "he that is of God can see Him."
John 6:46 - Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of
God, he hath seen the Father.
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
08 Oct 2006 11:26:37 PM |
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Chellie wrote:
Attila wrote:
I did not ask about a belief. I asked you to prove statements you
made which clearly asserted a god exists. An assertion of fact.
**************************************************************************************************************
Also another thing: For me to proof that God exists, you would have to
believe.
Then it is not proof. Objective proof does NOT rely on the other
person believing as you do. In fact, the baseline assumption should be
that the person does not believe as you do.
Even though you didn't ask about belief, proof and belief ties
in together.
No, it does not. Proof relies on objective evidence and facts tied
together with logical and reasonable arguments. Belief does not rely
on any evidence or facts at all, and in fact can ignore objective facts
and evidence that contradicts those beliefs. If the head of that
beliefs system also wield significant political power, those that
disagree with their belief system and provides proofs that things that
they say are wrong, those non-believers can be persecuted and the
knowledge that was found can be suppressed.
Don't believe me? Look at the Catholic Church and their actions during
the Middle Ages and Renaissance.
God isn't science.
That is why it is belief and faith. There are no facts to support your
premise.
I can't take a piece of God and place
Him in a test tube and say "Tada! Here's God!" It doesn't work that
way.
Who said that you have to "take a piece of God", or "place him in a
test tube"? Not all proofs are done that way, but all proofs do rely
on objective evidence and logical reasoning.
God isn't "worldly".
Then why believe that he even exists?
He's spiritual so you must be of a spiritual
mind to "see" Him.
A cop-out. If you have to be a believer to see your deity, then your
deity only exists in your mind, and does not exist in reality.
Bible says "he that is of God can see Him."
Meaning that only those that already believe in him can see him, which
means that people believe what they want to believe, and see what they
want to see, even if they have to ignore reality to do so.
There is a famous story using that premise called "The Emperor's New
Clothes".
John 6:46 - Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of
God, he hath seen the Father.
Meaning that people that have not been brainwashed by the religious
leaders cannot see what is not there. You are claiming that your deity
does not exist in reality, but rather only in the imaginations of the
deluded.
If your deity really existed, then you would be able to prove his
existence to an non-believer in an objective and rational fashion.
Mark Sebree
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 07:08:28 AM |
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On 8 Oct 2006 20:59:47 -0700, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1160366386.962910.4480@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Attila wrote:
I did not ask about a belief. I asked you to prove statements you
made which clearly asserted a god exists. An assertion of fact.
**************************************************************************************************************
Also another thing: For me to proof that God exists, you would have to
believe.
Belief is irrelevant as far as the real world is concerned. If
something actually exists it exists whether anyone 'believes' in it or
not.
Even though you didn't ask about belief, proof and belief ties
in together. God isn't science. I can't take a piece of God and place
Him in a test tube and say "Tada! Here's God!" It doesn't work that
way. God isn't "worldly". He's spiritual so you must be of a spiritual
mind to "see" Him.
Prove anything 'spiritual' exists.
Bible says "he that is of God can see Him."
Prove your bible has any validity.
Quote fro unsupported and unverified source removed.
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
You have not yet proven any such person ever existed.
Chellie
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Chellie" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
08 Oct 2006 10:45:36 PM |
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Attila wrote:
If you can't provide the requested proof don't present such statements
as if they are facts and not simply your opinion.
I did not ask about a belief. I asked you to prove statements you
made which clearly asserted a god exists. An assertion of fact.
I see you clipped the statement in question.
Another opinion presented as if it was a fact. Your statement clearly
asserts such a person actually existed yet you admit you cannot prove
it.
**********************************************************************************************************
Well, you have stated your opinion. I didn't state my opinions as if
they were facts. The thing is some people in this world need proof that
God exists. Others just believe and know for themselves.
See if you did believe that God existed then you would know that
"proof" isn't needed for His believers. I understand somewhat of why
many atheists don't believe in God. They see people who profess to be
Christians sin worse than unbelievers and yet those so-called
Christians say they believe in God. I honestly don't blame atheists but
on the other hand I am not saying they are right for not believing in
God, just saying I understand. Besides, the human mind needs
proof/evidence that something is real. To believe on/in something and
show no proof, others think of you as a fool. But Jesus told Thomas
that "blessed is he that believeth without seeing". Also that "faith is
the substance of things hoped for but the evidence of things not seen."
John 20:29 - Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have
believed.
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the
evidence of things not seen.
To believe these scriptures, you have to be a believer otherwise it's
not going to make sense to you. In that day... in that day...
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 07:05:39 AM |
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On 8 Oct 2006 20:45:36 -0700, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1160365536.863761.201010@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Attila wrote:
If you can't provide the requested proof don't present such statements
as if they are facts and not simply your opinion.
I did not ask about a belief. I asked you to prove statements you
made which clearly asserted a god exists. An assertion of fact.
I see you clipped the statement in question.
Another opinion presented as if it was a fact. Your statement clearly
asserts such a person actually existed yet you admit you cannot prove
it.
**********************************************************************************************************
Well, you have stated your opinion. I didn't state my opinions as if
they were facts. The thing is some people in this world need proof that
God exists. Others just believe and know for themselves.
Exactly how do you 'know' a god exists? That is a statement of fact
and needs support.
See if you did believe that God existed then you would know that
"proof" isn't needed for His believers.
The discussion is not about belief. You can believe whatever you
like. The discussion is about those things presented as fact - as if
they are true and not simply a belief.
I understand somewhat of why
many atheists don't believe in God.
By definition no atheist believes in any god. If they did they would
not be atheists would they?
They see people who profess to be
Christians sin worse than unbelievers and yet those so-called
Christians say they believe in God.
That has nothing to do with it. How about refusing to accept as true
what has not been proven? Especially something as unlikely as a god,
0r a particular god when there are so many to choose from.
I honestly don't blame atheists but
on the other hand I am not saying they are right for not believing in
God, just saying I understand.
No, you don't.
Besides, the human mind needs
proof/evidence that something is real.
Any reasonable person would require such proof.
To believe on/in something and
show no proof, others think of you as a fool. But Jesus told Thomas
that "blessed is he that believeth without seeing".
Prove either of those people actually existed.
Also that "faith is
the substance of things hoped for but the evidence of things not seen."
Meaning nothing.
Quotes from an unproven source removed. If you are going to use a
source first you must verify it is valid.
To believe these scriptures, you have to be a believer otherwise it's
not going to make sense to you.
Belief is irrelevant. It can include anything and is therefore
useless.
In that day... in that day...
Meaning what?
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
But you still have not proven such a person actually existed.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Chellie" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 02:00:26 PM |
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Attila,
Right now you don't understand my statement "in that day..." but you
will. and when that day do come, you will know what I was/am talking
about.
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 02:45:00 PM |
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Chellie wrote:
Attila,
Right now you don't understand my statement "in that day..." but you
will. and when that day do come, you will know what I was/am talking
about.
===>Ridiculous.
What you are talking about is sheer nonsense. -- L.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 05:11:30 PM |
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On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:45:00 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> in alt.abortion with message-id
<mNednRKcFNpdO7fYnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@comcast.com> wrote:
Chellie wrote:
Attila,
Right now you don't understand my statement "in that day..." but you
will. and when that day do come, you will know what I was/am talking
about.
===>Ridiculous.
What you are talking about is sheer nonsense. -- L.
Of course it is. She is talking religion.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Chellie" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 10:57:39 PM |
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Attila wrote:
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:45:00 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> in alt.abortion with message-id
<mNednRKcFNpdO7fYnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@comcast.com> wrote:
Chellie wrote:
Attila,
Right now you don't understand my statement "in that day..." but you
will. and when that day do come, you will know what I was/am talking
about.
===>Ridiculous.
What you are talking about is sheer nonsense. -- L.
Of course it is. She is talking religion.
**********************************************************************************************************
*smiles*
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
10 Oct 2006 02:36:40 PM |
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"Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1160452659.784086.150740@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Attila wrote:
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:45:00 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> in alt.abortion with message-id
<mNednRKcFNpdO7fYnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@comcast.com> wrote:
Chellie wrote:
Attila,
Right now you don't understand my statement "in that day..." but you
will. and when that day do come, you will know what I was/am talking
about.
===>Ridiculous.
What you are talking about is sheer nonsense. -- L.
Of course it is. She is talking religion.
**********************************************************************************************************
*smiles*
Ah yes. The usual christian arrogance.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
10 Oct 2006 06:07:59 PM |
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:36:40 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
"Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1160452659.784086.150740@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Attila wrote:
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:45:00 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> in alt.abortion with message-id
<mNednRKcFNpdO7fYnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@comcast.com> wrote:
Chellie wrote:
Attila,
Right now you don't understand my statement "in that day..." but you
will. and when that day do come, you will know what I was/am talking
about.
===>Ridiculous.
What you are talking about is sheer nonsense. -- L.
Of course it is. She is talking religion.
**********************************************************************************************************
*smiles*
Ah yes. The usual christian arrogance.
Vapid smile, and the lack of intelligence gleam in the eyes.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Bringing the Bible back to the classroom |
09 Oct 2006 05:11:01 PM |
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On 9 Oct 2006 12:00:26 -0700, "Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1160420426.800298.44270@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Attila,
Right now you don't understand my statement "in that day..." but you
will. and when that day do come, you will know what I was/am talking
about.
Another of those theist threats. So tiresome.
Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
But you have yet to prove such a person ever existed.
Chellie
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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