Buddha And His Four Noble Sins

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Jeet"
Date:	15 Sep 2004 10:48:38 AM
Object:	Buddha And His Four Noble Sins

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.
(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.
(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.
(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.
These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.
-Jeet.
.

User: "rbullo"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	04 Nov 2004 07:59:23 PM

"Jeet" <Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409152231.650e2478@posting.google.com...

You got google search. Type keywords like "buddha, life, wife, son,
father etc.."

Common custom on Usenet dictates that if someone asks for proof of some
statement, YOU must be the one to provide it. Someone who doesn't go through
the effort of defending his/her own points is believed to not have a point
to defend. I'm not defending Alexander Mulligan - anyone who posts whois
information is a troll, because s/he is acting in violation of the anonymity
principal.
But getting back to the OP, point four sticks out at me. Yes, he
probably could have improved quality of life in his kingdom if he had
succeeded his father as he was supposed to. But how long would that have
lasted? What if his successor had undid all of his accomplishments?
Establishing a religion is a much more reliable way of ensuring happiness
across several centuries, or even millenia, than being the wise ruler of a
minor kingdom.
.

User: "unhacker"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	18 Sep 2004 04:36:34 AM

Interesting trivia, thank you! I'd read somewhere a story about him
returning after many years and his wife being bitter about his son's
inheritance (and he gave him the dharma of course) - I guess I
could've read that (and the rest) into such stories if I'd cared to.
It is rather amusing - but, in my very humble opinion, irrelevant.
If, in fact, buddha were proven to have been in fact the most
dispicable thief and liar in all the ancient world, an infamous con
artist...even that would not matter.
What matters is that the dharma, subject even to the most intense
personal scrutiny, put into earnest action, works.
If I lost my fondness for Buddha, his legend or maybe just the cut of
his jib, well, I'll just pick another! Like, Dean Martin or Winnie
the Pooh or those dancing M+M's. I'll commandere the dharma, rebadge
it "dharma 2000" and teach it to myself in my basement and pay no
taxes as a religion.
Pooh is a full Cha'an master you know. :)
The Dharma, the Sangha, the Buddha - just the finger pointing toward
to moon. Don't get caught-up in the finger, this is about the moon.
Once you've seen the way, the finger is no longer relevant.
It's too easy to let the practice become the most powerful attachment
of all! :(
The fact that 99.9% of practitioners in ANY discipline are "lip
syncing" should not suprise any of you fine learned scholars.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

Hah, kid's stuff! Reminds me of that story, heck who was it, some
monk came back from studying abroad to find his mother died,
unattended and alone in the house...
....so he used her as a meditation pillow for 7 days.
And achieved enlightenment. Funneh stuff! :)
It's just a bag of bones, folks!
Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com (Jeet) wrote in message news:<8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com>...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

User: "DaveB"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	18 Sep 2004 02:49:58 PM

I agree. It's the teaching which is important, not so much the
teacher. If a murderer on death row told you that murder is wrong,
would you disbelieve him? No, because it makes sense that murder is
wrong and you can know it for yourself, no matter who says it.
And as I think someone already pointed out, he committed these "sins"
before he was The Buddha.
unhacker@gmail.com (unhacker) wrote in message news:<48bc5898.0409180136.108601a6@posting.google.com>...

Interesting trivia, thank you! I'd read somewhere a story about him
returning after many years and his wife being bitter about his son's
inheritance (and he gave him the dharma of course) - I guess I
could've read that (and the rest) into such stories if I'd cared to.

It is rather amusing - but, in my very humble opinion, irrelevant.

If, in fact, buddha were proven to have been in fact the most
dispicable thief and liar in all the ancient world, an infamous con
artist...even that would not matter.

What matters is that the dharma, subject even to the most intense
personal scrutiny, put into earnest action, works.

If I lost my fondness for Buddha, his legend or maybe just the cut of
his jib, well, I'll just pick another! Like, Dean Martin or Winnie
the Pooh or those dancing M+M's. I'll commandere the dharma, rebadge
it "dharma 2000" and teach it to myself in my basement and pay no
taxes as a religion.

Pooh is a full Cha'an master you know. :)

The Dharma, the Sangha, the Buddha - just the finger pointing toward
to moon. Don't get caught-up in the finger, this is about the moon.
Once you've seen the way, the finger is no longer relevant.

It's too easy to let the practice become the most powerful attachment
of all! :(

The fact that 99.9% of practitioners in ANY discipline are "lip
syncing" should not suprise any of you fine learned scholars.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

Hah, kid's stuff! Reminds me of that story, heck who was it, some
monk came back from studying abroad to find his mother died,
unattended and alone in the house...

...so he used her as a meditation pillow for 7 days.

And achieved enlightenment. Funneh stuff! :)

It's just a bag of bones, folks!

Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com (Jeet) wrote in message news:<8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com>...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

User: "Jeet"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	20 Sep 2004 02:30:56 PM

(DaveB) wrote in message news:<d22abdd8.0409181149.5e7929bb@posting.google.com>...

Siddharth has committed sin.
Now he is going out and achieved "Enlightnement, Nirvana" saying that
he will never reborn and hence never take punishment of his sin.
Same thing applies to Rama. He abandonend Sita and has gone
unpunished.
If the teacher on murder row teach that murder is wrong, yes I will
believe him.
If the teacher has committed murder and teach that murder is wrong,
yes I will believe him.
But in this case teacher has committed murder and has gone scot-free,
gone from world. What more, he achieved Nirvana promising that he will
never reborn.
What he is teaching that committ any crime, sin and just follow
vipassana meditation. You will be free from your sins, not only
committed in this life but also of all the past lifes. You will
acheive Nirvana, never reborn to take punishment.
Siddharth never believed in existence of God. Perhaps people can
forgive him. But God can not.
Liability just can not nullified by creating Assets equal to liability
or more than liability. Accounting must be flawless, God know this.
-Abhijeet.
.

User: "Keenan Clay Wilkie"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	21 Sep 2004 12:41:27 AM

(Jeet) writes:

dave.buchta@gmail.com (DaveB) wrote in message news:<d22abdd8.0409181149.5e7929bb@posting.google.com>...

All of this is nothing more than your own personal empty assertions. You
have absolutely no evidence that any gods exist, thus your claims
regarding Buddha in light of the existence of this alleged "God" are
utterly meaningless.
--
See the documented lies of Pastor Frank: http://tinyurl.com/6009
http://www.virginiaisforhaters.org/
d a r k s t a r @ i g l o u . c o m | atheist #29
.

User: "somebody"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	23 Sep 2004 10:35:19 AM

(Jeet) wrote in message news:<8d1edf6d.0409201130.74d11a3a@posting.google.com>...

dave.buchta@gmail.com (DaveB) wrote in message news:<d22abdd8.0409181149.5e7929bb@posting.google.com>...

Siddharth has committed sin.

All of us have committed sins. Before he became enlightened all
his actions will also have consequences.

Now he is going out and achieved "Enlightnement, Nirvana" saying that
he will never reborn and hence never take punishment of his sin.

Same thing applies to Rama. He abandonend Sita and has gone
unpunished.

The ripening of one's karma is dependent on external and internal
environment. A buddha's internal state is such that only the very
propulsive karma will ripen. This is so due to the karmically
contaminated body that a buddha possessed. The ripening of seeds in
those outside of him could also cause buddha or an arahant harm. The
buddha's presence then become the external condition for these seeds
in others to ripen. The lifes of the various arahant who were killed
bears testimony to this.
If you believe that there is an external fair judge who mete out
punishment and bestow blessings then siddartha certainly deserves
punishment for what he had done.
If such a judge do not exists and all of us are subjected to
certain basic laws then liberation , according to this set of laws, is
possible. By understanding and realising the principles of these laws
we can become liberated.

If the teacher on murder row teach that murder is wrong, yes I will
believe him.

If the teacher has committed murder and teach that murder is wrong,
yes I will believe him.

Belief is based on internal judgement. Whether this judgement
comes from wisdom or clever reasoning one will never know. Clever
reasoning comes from the intellect trying out and excluding as many
possibilities as it can think up. Reasoning guided by wisdom is
direct. The end product may be the same but the first is filled with
frustration and misguided certainty. The second is filled with peace
and an inner knowing. It needs no proof.
Buddhism as taught by buddha is beyond beliefs. No belief is
needed to practice what buddha taught. Science, together with the
laws that it has uncovered do not require us to believe its veracity.
We can verify it for ourselves. If science says that if you heat a pot
of water to 100 degC it will boil we can test it out. No belief is
needed. Likewise when buddha said that insights and wisdom will arise
when you calm your mind, no belief is needed. You can try it and
verify it for yourself.
However you need to believe that a fair judge exists to keep the
game of life fair.

But in this case teacher has committed murder and has gone scot-free,
gone from world. What more, he achieved Nirvana promising that he will
never reborn.

What he is teaching that committ any crime, sin and just follow
vipassana meditation. You will be free from your sins, not only
committed in this life but also of all the past lifes. You will
acheive Nirvana, never reborn to take punishment.

Siddharth never believed in existence of God. Perhaps people can
forgive him. But God can not.

Liability just can not nullified by creating Assets equal to liability
or more than liability. Accounting must be flawless, God know this.

How do you square this with the grace of god ? Aren't you
shooting yourself in the foot with this assertion.
And what would be a "flawless accounting" ?
.

User: "Jeet"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	26 Sep 2004 03:43:14 AM

[snip]

What he is teaching that committ any crime, sin and just follow
vipassana meditation. You will be free from your sins, not only
committed in this life but also of all the past lifes. You will
acheive Nirvana, never reborn to take punishment.

Siddharth never believed in existence of God. Perhaps people can
forgive him. But God can not.

Liability just can not nullified by creating Assets equal to liability
or more than liability. Accounting must be flawless, God know this.

How do you square this with the grace of god ? Aren't you
shooting yourself in the foot with this assertion.

And what would be a "flawless accounting" ?

Siddharth has said that, "our mind constructs internal reality and
lives within it".
As you know, billions of years ago whatever we see around us, planets,
stars, galaxies etc. were concentrated in infinetely small super dense
ball. This ball exploded in what we call "Big-Bang" and our universe
was created.
We, the human beings are part of this universe. We all were also
concentrated in that superdense ball. And hence whatever we call "our
mind, self" was concentrated in that super dense ball. Our mind was
"one" just before big-bang. It has "collective consciousness". You
may call it "pure awareness" in your words.
We, our mind, have made certain rules, laws about how to run this
Matrix.
Your mind, mind of your wife and son was also part of this "collective
consciousness" just before big-bang.
Suppose you are suddenly become sad by watching suffering in our
world. You decided to abandon your wife, son and went out to find
solution to eradicate these sufferings.
Ask your wife, son what would be their stance in that situation.
Imagine when you run away from your home, how your wife and son will
have to face society every day. Imagine their mental agony.
After some years, you come back and call that you are "enlightnend".
You refuge to accept her as your wife. You refuge to give love to you
son and instead of that you force him to become "monk". You think that
you are going to eradicate sufferings by your so called enlightenment.
You succeed in making some people achieving that state. After some
years, you are dead.
Now come back after 2500 years on this earth. See, the world is same,
perhaps worse as it were 2500 years ago. People dying without food in
Africa, terrorism, corruption, wars etc. Where is that world of which
you thought?
Now in this life, wondering on streets if you met your wife in
previous life, what answer you would give to her? She is going to ask
you what about destroying her life in previous life without achieving
absoluetly nothing.
She, your son, all the men and womens were part of "collective
consciousness, awreness" just before big-bang. She, your son, must
have thought some punishment for you.
We, our collective will, collective consciousness, collective awarness
is God. Until and unless your wife and son forgvies you, you are not
going to achieve any "Nirvana".
See it like this. If your car hit some girl, then according to law,
you will be arrested. Until and unless that girl decide to withdraw
case against you, you will have to face court.
Give her some "reason" to withdraw case. Until that, you will not be
freed by police, court.
Police and court will not allow you to achieve "Nirvana".
-Abhijeet.
.

User: "Raymond"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	28 Sep 2004 10:08:42 PM

From Jesus to Guru Nanak, the holiest of men have displayed one
tendency and that is equanimity or Upekksha. Jesus could have spoken a
"little" lie in order to live and support his mother, who needed
support. Guru Nanak could have stayed at his home in Punjab and
continued to love and care for his wife and children, who need the
family patriarch. Instead these men did things that defy common
sensibility and morality.
Indeed, there are sins committed by Gautama, as judged by a common
man. But I believe in his teachings and in the fact that his own life
was exemplary. He could have influenced the greatest of Kings,
Ajatshatru, and lived a royal priest's life. Instead, he lived on most
meagre means as an example to fellow monks, and thus taught his
teachings blamelessly.
The two names of Gautama and Siddharta are both mysterious. Their
meanings are about higher aim of life. Let's not call Siddharta a
fool, a mere piddling. For he had the spark that became the flame
which the whole world knows. Siddharta is us, the striver. He is our
inspiration for he never looked back despite all the odds.
.

User: "Andrew Eatock"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	29 Sep 2004 08:25:58 PM

(Raymond) wrote in message news:<ade12580.0409281908.5fff783d@posting.google.com>...

From Jesus to Guru Nanak, the holiest of men have displayed one
tendency and that is equanimity or Upekksha. Jesus could have spoken a
"little" lie in order to live and support his mother, who needed
support. Guru Nanak could have stayed at his home in Punjab and
continued to love and care for his wife and children, who need the
family patriarch. Instead these men did things that defy common
sensibility and morality.

Indeed, there are sins committed by Gautama, as judged by a common
man. But I believe in his teachings and in the fact that his own life
was exemplary. He could have influenced the greatest of Kings,
Ajatshatru, and lived a royal priest's life. Instead, he lived on most
meagre means as an example to fellow monks, and thus taught his
teachings blamelessly.

The two names of Gautama and Siddharta are both mysterious. Their
meanings are about higher aim of life. Let's not call Siddharta a
fool, a mere piddling. For he had the spark that became the flame
which the whole world knows. Siddharta is us, the striver. He is our
inspiration for he never looked back despite all the odds.

Very well said, I agree entirely !
Regards,
Andrew :-)
.

User: "Dharmananda"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	28 Sep 2004 12:53:56 AM

Jeet wrote:

Siddharth has committed sin.

Get a life, you useless left-over Nakshatra from hell.
Siddharth is not the point. Siddharth was a fool. It's not in Siddarth
that we take Refuge, but in the Tathagata that arose from the ashes of
Siddarth under the Bodhi tree.
Gautama Lord Buddha completely transcended the birth karma of Siddharth when
he attained Enlightenment. His Nirvana was the the final anihillation of
the last speck of that birth karma.
If there is an individuality present in Buddhism, it is that of the
meditation Buddhas, most universally Ahmitabha Buddha, the Sambhogakaya of
the Buddha, that is present. There is not one single evanescent whiff of
an emanation of a shadow of an infinitesmal iota of Siddharth left in it.
--
Triratnam sharanam gaccami
Dharmananda
http://mysite.verizon.net/res6zeam/american-buddhist/news.html
.

User: "Johny"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	25 Sep 2004 12:53:09 PM

When one claims sin, please define what is sinful?
Standards are man made, what is a sin, Ten Commandments from the Mt. Sinai?
"Jeet" <Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409201130.74d11a3a@posting.google.com...

dave.buchta@gmail.com (DaveB) wrote in message

news:<d22abdd8.0409181149.5e7929bb@posting.google.com>...

Siddharth has committed sin.

Now he is going out and achieved "Enlightnement, Nirvana" saying that
he will never reborn and hence never take punishment of his sin.

Same thing applies to Rama. He abandonend Sita and has gone
unpunished.

If the teacher on murder row teach that murder is wrong, yes I will
believe him.

If the teacher has committed murder and teach that murder is wrong,
yes I will believe him.

But in this case teacher has committed murder and has gone scot-free,
gone from world. What more, he achieved Nirvana promising that he will
never reborn.

What he is teaching that committ any crime, sin and just follow
vipassana meditation. You will be free from your sins, not only
committed in this life but also of all the past lifes. You will
acheive Nirvana, never reborn to take punishment.

Siddharth never believed in existence of God. Perhaps people can
forgive him. But God can not.

Liability just can not nullified by creating Assets equal to liability
or more than liability. Accounting must be flawless, God know this.

-Abhijeet.

User: "Lee Dillion"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	15 Sep 2004 01:14:23 PM

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward son,
and miserable world leader. Why should this bother you?
.

User: "Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	15 Sep 2004 07:26:51 PM

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward son,
and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!
.

User: "Lee Dillion"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	15 Sep 2004 10:44:45 PM

Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward son,
and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!

I don't know. Whatever else the Buddha was, he wasn't an incurious,
tongue-tied, buffoon.
.

User: "Ph�lt�r"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	18 Sep 2004 07:25:45 AM

Lee Dillion <leedillion@yahoo.net> astounded us with:
news:2qsgheF120qn3U1@uni-berlin.de:

Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward son,
and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!

I don't know. Whatever else the Buddha was, he wasn't an incurious,
tongue-tied, buffoon.

THIS is FUNNY, people VOTED for this buffoon. Therefore, that makes
them......
--
Ph�lt�r
AA#1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attach�
http://forums.clickhalah.com/index.php
Remove "s" to respond
.

User: "Lee Dillion"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	19 Sep 2004 03:36:45 PM

Ph�lt�r wrote:

Lee Dillion <leedillion@yahoo.net> astounded us with:
news:2qsgheF120qn3U1@uni-berlin.de:

Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward son,
and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!

I don't know. Whatever else the Buddha was, he wasn't an incurious,
tongue-tied, buffoon.

THIS is FUNNY, people VOTED for this buffoon. Therefore, that makes
them......

It seems to me that it makes them like most other people in the world -
that is, their world is organized by their cravings, their conceits,
and, most of all, their views. Reason is merely a slave to their
passions - being utilized to explain away and rationalize in the most
creative of ways anything that does not "fit" into their built up paradigm.
.

User: "cupcake"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	19 Sep 2004 03:57:25 PM

Lee Dillion wrote:

Network Error: connection lost

GOOD! i hope the authorities at Usenet keep it that way!
.

User: "George W. Cherry"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	19 Sep 2004 06:42:49 PM

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r68v0F175lbnU1@uni-berlin.de...

Ph�lt�r wrote:

Lee Dillion <leedillion@yahoo.net> astounded us with:
news:2qsgheF120qn3U1@uni-berlin.de:

Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able

king.

But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward

son,

and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!

I don't know. Whatever else the Buddha was, he wasn't an incurious,
tongue-tied, buffoon.

THIS is FUNNY, people VOTED for this buffoon. Therefore, that makes
them......

paradigm.
Yes, people CRAVE to believe the US president is
wise, compassionate, and decisive; they harbor the
CONCEIT that the US is superior and correct; and
their VIEWS are shaped by spin doctors who have
figured out how to pitch a bad story so that it sounds
good and how to describe a good opponent so that
sounds bad.
.

User: "Lee Dillion"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	19 Sep 2004 07:35:55 PM

George W. Cherry wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r68v0F175lbnU1@uni-berlin.de...

Ph�lt�r wrote:

Lee Dillion <leedillion@yahoo.net> astounded us with:
news:2qsgheF120qn3U1@uni-berlin.de:

Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able

king.

But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward

son,

and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!

I don't know. Whatever else the Buddha was, he wasn't an incurious,
tongue-tied, buffoon.

THIS is FUNNY, people VOTED for this buffoon. Therefore, that makes
them......

paradigm.

Yes, people CRAVE to believe the US president is
wise, compassionate, and decisive; they harbor the
CONCEIT that the US is superior and correct; and
their VIEWS are shaped by spin doctors who have
figured out how to pitch a bad story so that it sounds
good and how to describe a good opponent so that
sounds bad.

I think the emotions are even more primitive, more visceral. Bush has
that judgment day swagger, that Armageddon is getting it on smirk, and
that righteous vengeance of the morally certain that appeals to those
who see the world in the black and white of their Lord. He cannot be
mistaken or confused since he is the chosen instrument of their God's
will. Those who disagree are evil, and the ends of time justify all
means to get there.
.

User: "George W. Cherry"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	19 Sep 2004 09:54:00 PM

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r6mvhF15h9rlU1@uni-berlin.de...

George W. Cherry wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r68v0F175lbnU1@uni-berlin.de...

Ph�lt�r wrote:

Lee Dillion <leedillion@yahoo.net> astounded us with:
news:2qsgheF120qn3U1@uni-berlin.de:

Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as

father.

But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able

king.

But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward

son,

and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!

I don't know. Whatever else the Buddha was, he wasn't an incurious,
tongue-tied, buffoon.

THIS is FUNNY, people VOTED for this buffoon. Therefore, that makes
them......

paradigm.

Yes, people CRAVE to believe the US president is
wise, compassionate, and decisive; they harbor the
CONCEIT that the US is superior and correct; and
their VIEWS are shaped by spin doctors who have
figured out how to pitch a bad story so that it sounds
good and how to describe a good opponent so that
sounds bad.

Yes, the electorate here is suffering cognitive AND
emotional disorders.
.

User: "possum"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	19 Sep 2004 08:18:42 PM

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r6mvhF15h9rlU1@uni-berlin.de...

George W. Cherry wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r68v0F175lbnU1@uni-berlin.de...

Ph�lt�r wrote:

Lee Dillion <leedillion@yahoo.net> astounded us with:
news:2qsgheF120qn3U1@uni-berlin.de:

Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as
father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able

king.

But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward

son,

and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!

I don't know. Whatever else the Buddha was, he wasn't an incurious,
tongue-tied, buffoon.

THIS is FUNNY, people VOTED for this buffoon. Therefore, that makes
them......

paradigm.

Yes, people CRAVE to believe the US president is
wise, compassionate, and decisive; they harbor the
CONCEIT that the US is superior and correct; and
their VIEWS are shaped by spin doctors who have
figured out how to pitch a bad story so that it sounds
good and how to describe a good opponent so that
sounds bad.

I think the emotions are even more primitive, more visceral. Bush has
that judgment day swagger, that Armageddon is getting it on smirk, and
that righteous vengeance of the morally certain that appeals to those who
see the world in the black and white of their Lord. He cannot be mistaken
or confused since he is the chosen instrument of their God's will. Those
who disagree are evil, and the ends of time justify all means to get
there.

Tony blair has had president Allawi over, and they've both sworn they'll
defeat the Forces of Evil, because, according to tony, we will keep on and
on until we do, and we believe in our values more than they do. so
basically he's reduced to talking total bollocks, but shamelessly and
brazenly.
The Foreign SEcretary, david blunkett is talking about the election going
ahead, in the 'safe' parts of iraq, as if it wouldn't cause sheer murder.
btw, i read some time ago that Rumsfeld, i think, or was it *****? had
asked for legal advice on the postponement of the election on security
issues. any news there?
how ya doing, lee? keeping well, i hope...
possum
.

User: "possum"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	19 Sep 2004 08:43:40 PM

"possum" <possum@nospace42.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cilb5d$e03$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r6mvhF15h9rlU1@uni-berlin.de...

George W. Cherry wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r68v0F175lbnU1@uni-berlin.de...

Ph�lt�r wrote:

Lee Dillion <leedillion@yahoo.net> astounded us with:
news:2qsgheF120qn3U1@uni-berlin.de:

Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as
father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able

king.

But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward

son,

and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!

I don't know. Whatever else the Buddha was, he wasn't an incurious,
tongue-tied, buffoon.

THIS is FUNNY, people VOTED for this buffoon. Therefore, that makes
them......

paradigm.

Yes, people CRAVE to believe the US president is
wise, compassionate, and decisive; they harbor the
CONCEIT that the US is superior and correct; and
their VIEWS are shaped by spin doctors who have
figured out how to pitch a bad story so that it sounds
good and how to describe a good opponent so that
sounds bad.

I think the emotions are even more primitive, more visceral. Bush has
that judgment day swagger, that Armageddon is getting it on smirk, and
that righteous vengeance of the morally certain that appeals to those who
see the world in the black and white of their Lord. He cannot be
mistaken or confused since he is the chosen instrument of their God's
will. Those who disagree are evil, and the ends of time justify all
means to get there.

that's your election (USA), not the iraqi election, sorry i didn't make
it clear.
not to worry. ; )

any news there?

how ya doing, lee? keeping well, i hope...

possum

User: "Lee Dillion"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	19 Sep 2004 08:43:11 PM

possum wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r6mvhF15h9rlU1@uni-berlin.de...

George W. Cherry wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r68v0F175lbnU1@uni-berlin.de...

Ph�lt�r wrote:

Lee Dillion <leedillion@yahoo.net> astounded us with:
news:2qsgheF120qn3U1@uni-berlin.de:

Clayton May Appear To Be Closer Than He Actually Is wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2qrf3uF12qqgpU1@uni-berlin.de...

Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as
father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able

king.

But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

Yes, to many, the Buddha is a poor husband, absent father, wayward

son,

and miserable world leader.

He could be the U.S. President!!

I don't know. Whatever else the Buddha was, he wasn't an incurious,
tongue-tied, buffoon.

THIS is FUNNY, people VOTED for this buffoon. Therefore, that makes
them......

paradigm.

Yes, people CRAVE to believe the US president is
wise, compassionate, and decisive; they harbor the
CONCEIT that the US is superior and correct; and
their VIEWS are shaped by spin doctors who have
figured out how to pitch a bad story so that it sounds
good and how to describe a good opponent so that
sounds bad.

I think the emotions are even more primitive, more visceral. Bush has
that judgment day swagger, that Armageddon is getting it on smirk, and
that righteous vengeance of the morally certain that appeals to those who
see the world in the black and white of their Lord. He cannot be mistaken
or confused since he is the chosen instrument of their God's will. Those
who disagree are evil, and the ends of time justify all means to get
there.

Yeah, been busy with things I enjoy. Just got back from rock-hunting
with my dad and son-in-law in the desert. Clear air, chilly nights and
good friends.
Hope all is well with you.
.

User: "Lee Dillion"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	19 Sep 2004 08:54:35 PM

possum wrote:

The Foreign SEcretary, david blunkett is talking about the election going
ahead, in the 'safe' parts of iraq, as if it wouldn't cause sheer murder.
btw, i read some time ago that Rumsfeld, i think, or was it *****? had
asked for legal advice on the postponement of the election on security
issues. any news there?

The race for president appears close, despite Bush having failed
miserably in everything he touches. The problem is that kerry is under
the delusion that you reach the US public with reason and calm
discussion, when its macho stories and fairy tales we wish to hear.
I find that the prospect of Bush getting four more years to wreak havoc
on the world gives rise to very strong negative emotions on my part - so
he has become my Buddha. So many lessons I learn each day with Bush as
president.
.

User: "Ludwig"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	20 Sep 2004 05:45:36 PM

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r6risF16rt6kU1@uni-berlin.de...

possum wrote:

The Foreign SEcretary, david blunkett is talking about the election

going

ahead, in the 'safe' parts of iraq, as if it wouldn't cause sheer

murder.

btw, i read some time ago that Rumsfeld, i think, or was it *****?

had

asked for legal advice on the postponement of the election on security
issues. any news there?

Hi Lee
We get the same - or similar - fairy tales over here (in the UK) but
everyone is getting very bored with them. Our democratic 'choice' is to vote
for a right wing party ( the Conservatives) which would most likely be even
happier to go war again again than the present government.
Re the election: I'm glad to hear that at least it's close - the last we
heard over here was that Bush had an unassailable lead in the polls.
It's very odd, the US elections have become a global issue. Broadly speaking
everyone is ***** scared about what's going to happen if Bush gets in again.
Ludwig

I find that the prospect of Bush getting four more years to wreak havoc
on the world gives rise to very strong negative emotions on my part - so
he has become my Buddha. So many lessons I learn each day with Bush as
president.

User: "Lee Dillion"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	20 Sep 2004 06:23:05 PM

Ludwig wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r6risF16rt6kU1@uni-berlin.de...

possum wrote:

The Foreign SEcretary, david blunkett is talking about the election

going

ahead, in the 'safe' parts of iraq, as if it wouldn't cause sheer

murder.

btw, i read some time ago that Rumsfeld, i think, or was it *****?

had

asked for legal advice on the postponement of the election on security
issues. any news there?

We are getting word here that Blair was warned of the post-war troubles
- that he was warned that "no one has satisfactorily answered how there
can be any certainty that the replacement regime will be any better."
The Daily Telegraph said the documents showed Mr Blair had signed up to
the US policy of regime change in March 2002, a year before the conflict
started.
"This underlines very starkly not only the reservations that existed in
the (Foreign Office) about our ability to handle post-conflict Iraq, but
also the lack of a comprehensive plan for the stabilisation and
reconstruction of Iraq, which we consistently called for before the
war," said Michael Ancram, shadow foreign secretary for the opposition
Conservative Party."
"The assurances given to us by both the Prime Minister and Jack Straw
that such a plan was in hand were clearly misleading, and yet again cast
grave doubts on the conduct of ministers in the run up to the war."

Re the election: I'm glad to hear that at least it's close - the last we
heard over here was that Bush had an unassailable lead in the polls.
It's very odd, the US elections have become a global issue. Broadly speaking
everyone is ***** scared about what's going to happen if Bush gets in again.

***** scared is a good description of the feeling that arises in me when
I ponder the possibility. So - what do you do about it? How do you
move forward, letting go of unskillful thoughts?
.

User: "Ludwig"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	21 Sep 2004 05:12:47 AM

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r972qF17k53mU1@uni-berlin.de...
<snip>

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was true. Blair is being held to
account, and I think he is being damaged by all this - the Iraq policy was
never very popular and now nearly everyone agrees it's a disaster. If he
survives to the next election, he'll probably get back in again but with a
reduced majority.

"This underlines very starkly not only the reservations that existed in
the (Foreign Office) about our ability to handle post-conflict Iraq, but
also the lack of a comprehensive plan for the stabilisation and
reconstruction of Iraq, which we consistently called for before the
war," said Michael Ancram, shadow foreign secretary for the opposition
Conservative Party."

"The assurances given to us by both the Prime Minister and Jack Straw
that such a plan was in hand were clearly misleading, and yet again cast
grave doubts on the conduct of ministers in the run up to the war."

speaking

everyone is ***** scared about what's going to happen if Bush gets in

again.

***** scared is a good description of the feeling that arises in me when
I ponder the possibility. So - what do you do about it? How do you
move forward, letting go of unskillful thoughts?

I don't really know, I probably let all this stuff get to me more than I
should. But it must be worth trying to do that.
.

User: "George W. Cherry"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	20 Sep 2004 09:49:34 PM

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r972qF17k53mU1@uni-berlin.de...

Ludwig wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r6risF16rt6kU1@uni-berlin.de...

possum wrote:

The Foreign SEcretary, david blunkett is talking about the election

going

ahead, in the 'safe' parts of iraq, as if it wouldn't cause sheer

murder.

btw, i read some time ago that Rumsfeld, i think, or was it *****?

had

asked for legal advice on the postponement of the election on security
issues. any news there?

Hi Lee

We get the same - or similar - fairy tales over here (in the UK) but
everyone is getting very bored with them. Our democratic 'choice' is to

vote

for a right wing party ( the Conservatives) which would most likely be

even

happier to go war again again than the present government.

We are getting word here that Blair was warned of the post-war troubles
- that he was warned that "no one has satisfactorily answered how there
can be any certainty that the replacement regime will be any better."

The Daily Telegraph said the documents showed Mr Blair had signed up to
the US policy of regime change in March 2002, a year before the conflict
started.

"This underlines very starkly not only the reservations that existed in
the (Foreign Office) about our ability to handle post-conflict Iraq, but
also the lack of a comprehensive plan for the stabilisation and
reconstruction of Iraq, which we consistently called for before the
war," said Michael Ancram, shadow foreign secretary for the opposition
Conservative Party."

"The assurances given to us by both the Prime Minister and Jack Straw
that such a plan was in hand were clearly misleading, and yet again cast
grave doubts on the conduct of ministers in the run up to the war."

speaking

everyone is ***** scared about what's going to happen if Bush gets in

again.

***** scared is a good description of the feeling that arises in me when
I ponder the possibility. So - what do you do about it? How do you
move forward, letting go of unskillful thoughts?

If Bush wins I'm going to have to summon all the
equanimity that Buddhism offers.
.

User: "cupcake"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	20 Sep 2004 10:01:38 PM

George W. Cherry wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
[19]news:2r972qF17k53mU1@uni-berlin.de...

Ludwig wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
[20]news:2r6risF16rt6kU1@uni-berlin.de...

possum wrote:

The Foreign SEcretary, david blunkett is talking about the election

going

ahead, in the 'safe' parts of iraq, as if it wouldn't cause sheer

murder.

btw, i read some time ago that Rumsfeld, i think, or was it *****?

had

asked for legal advice on the postponement of the election on security
issues. any news there?

Hi Lee

We get the same - or similar - fairy tales over here (in the UK) but
everyone is getting very bored with them. Our democratic 'choice' is to

vote

for a right wing party ( the Conservatives) which would most likely be

even

happier to go war again again than the present government.

We are getting word here that Blair was warned of the post-war troubles
- that he was warned that "no one has satisfactorily answered how there
can be any certainty that the replacement regime will be any better."

The Daily Telegraph said the documents showed Mr Blair had signed up to
the US policy of regime change in March 2002, a year before the conflict
started.

"This underlines very starkly not only the reservations that existed in
the (Foreign Office) about our ability to handle post-conflict Iraq, but
also the lack of a comprehensive plan for the stabilisation and
reconstruction of Iraq, which we consistently called for before the
war," said Michael Ancram, shadow foreign secretary for the opposition
Conservative Party."

"The assurances given to us by both the Prime Minister and Jack Straw
that such a plan was in hand were clearly misleading, and yet again cast
grave doubts on the conduct of ministers in the run up to the war."

speaking

everyone is ***** scared about what's going to happen if Bush gets in

again.

***** scared is a good description of the feeling that arises in me when
I ponder the possibility. So - what do you do about it? How do you
move forward, letting go of unskillful thoughts?

If Bush wins I'm going to have to summon all the
equanimity that Buddhism offers.

you wud be better off getting a prescription for
some "smart pills", so you can understand what's
going on the the world George
.

User: "Evelyn Ruut"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	21 Sep 2004 04:18:16 AM

"George W. Cherry" <GWCherryHatesGreenEggsAndSpam@alum.mit.edu> wrote in
message news:2FM3d.129024$3l3.83077@attbi_s03...

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r972qF17k53mU1@uni-berlin.de...

Ludwig wrote:

"Lee Dillion" <leedillion@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:2r6risF16rt6kU1@uni-berlin.de...

possum wrote:

The Foreign SEcretary, david blunkett is talking about the election

going

ahead, in the 'safe' parts of iraq, as if it wouldn't cause sheer

murder.

btw, i read some time ago that Rumsfeld, i think, or was it *****?

had

asked for legal advice on the postponement of the election on security
issues. any news there?

Hi Lee

We get the same - or similar - fairy tales over here (in the UK) but
everyone is getting very bored with them. Our democratic 'choice' is to

vote

for a right wing party ( the Conservatives) which would most likely be

even

happier to go war again again than the present government.

We are getting word here that Blair was warned of the post-war troubles
- that he was warned that "no one has satisfactorily answered how there
can be any certainty that the replacement regime will be any better."

The Daily Telegraph said the documents showed Mr Blair had signed up to
the US policy of regime change in March 2002, a year before the conflict
started.

"This underlines very starkly not only the reservations that existed in
the (Foreign Office) about our ability to handle post-conflict Iraq, but
also the lack of a comprehensive plan for the stabilisation and
reconstruction of Iraq, which we consistently called for before the
war," said Michael Ancram, shadow foreign secretary for the opposition
Conservative Party."

"The assurances given to us by both the Prime Minister and Jack Straw
that such a plan was in hand were clearly misleading, and yet again cast
grave doubts on the conduct of ministers in the run up to the war."

Re the election: I'm glad to hear that at least it's close - the last
we
heard over here was that Bush had an unassailable lead in the polls.
It's very odd, the US elections have become a global issue. Broadly

speaking

everyone is ***** scared about what's going to happen if Bush gets in

again.

***** scared is a good description of the feeling that arises in me when
I ponder the possibility. So - what do you do about it? How do you
move forward, letting go of unskillful thoughts?

If Bush wins I'm going to have to summon all the
equanimity that Buddhism offers.

If he wins, there is no sanity whatsoever in this world.
--
Regards,
Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
.

Page 2 of 8

Post reply

what The LOARD (o - sory four shouting) really wroate on his Tablits of Stoan
Peace be upon you!...Reply to objections on Islam regarding God....His mercy is prevalent over all His other attributes....His four basic attributes.... His attribute of Al Aziz (The Mighty) is mentioned in the Holy Qur'an mostly in conjunction with