Buddha And His Four Noble Sins

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Jeet"
Date:	15 Sep 2004 10:48:38 AM
Object:	Buddha And His Four Noble Sins

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.
(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.
(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.
(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.
These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.
-Jeet.
.

User: "AW"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	15 Sep 2004 12:37:44 PM

"Jeet" <Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Are you sad? Can I help?
AW
.

User: "Jeet"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	16 Sep 2004 08:04:41 AM

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<41487dea$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

"Jeet" <Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one. Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever. I think
Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).
For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?
Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?
-Jeet.
.

User: "Roger Andrews"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	17 Sep 2004 12:51:31 PM

(Jeet) wrote in message news:<8d1edf6d.0409160504.657bdd86@posting.google.com>...

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<41487dea$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

"Jeet" <

> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one. Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever. I think
Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).

For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?

Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?

-Jeet.

Just as Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism doesn't work for everyone,
niether does Buddhism. The teachings of Buddha doesn't give us
anything. It only points The Way. It is up to us to follow it. If one
is not ready to follow, no ammount of trying to interpret what he was
trying to teach will gain one enlightenment.
Roger
.

User: "AW"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	17 Sep 2004 01:58:15 PM

"Roger Andrews" <crazybeast@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:cda5d73a.0409170951.74174329@posting.google.com...

Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com (Jeet) wrote in message

news:<8d1edf6d.0409160504.657bdd86@posting.google.com>...

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<41487dea$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

"Jeet" <Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as

father.

But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able

king.

But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one. Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever. I think
Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).

For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?

Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?

-Jeet.

That is a valid point. But one can help the interested realise properly that
it could or could not be The Way for him/her. Not?
AW
.

User: "Roger Andrews"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	21 Sep 2004 06:29:41 PM

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<414b33d9$0$34762$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

"Roger Andrews" <crazybeast@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:cda5d73a.0409170951.74174329@posting.google.com...

Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com (Jeet) wrote in message

news:<8d1edf6d.0409160504.657bdd86@posting.google.com>...

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<41487dea$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

"Jeet" <Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as

father.

But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able

king.

But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one. Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever. I think
Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).

For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?

Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?

-Jeet.

That is a valid point. But one can help the interested realise properly that
it could or could not be The Way for him/her. Not?

AW

Possibly. However, I know enough to realize that I don't know enough.
So any help I try to give would only confuse a seeker.
Roger
.

User: "AW"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	16 Sep 2004 10:58:09 AM

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one.

What is your definition of enlightenment?

Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever.

He did indeed not stay in it forever, as far as I've read he was enlightened
for three days. Thereafter he chose to return to 'spread the news'. When he
died, he enlightened himself and did not reincarnate.
I think

Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).

For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?

First of all, the whole idea behind enlightenment is to escape this duality:
happiness - sadness; action - reaction; left - right; because indeed, for
every extreme, there is one to oppose it. This is only relevant if we
consider a point of reference, ie: you. We have a concept of 'I' and this
separates us from the rest of the world. I and the rest.
Now take the example of infinity: mathematicians still have problems
defining infinity, here are two definitions:
'Infinity is boundlessness, no ending', or 'Infinity is the largest number +
1'. As you can see the first definition states that infinity can not be a
finite value because that would imply bounds. The second definition would
imply that it does have value.
Now if we put it in relation to our universe, the first definition: take the
definition for zero: an number of no value, just like infinity, it has no
value. Roughly speaking: infinity = 0.
The second definition of an infinite value would allow me to state: infinite
left + infinite right = 0; infinite past + infinite future = 0; infinite
bigness + infinite smallness = 0... only with relative to an infinitisimal
point, this point is you. If we consider these from the perpsective of the
physical world, these sums have 2*infinite value.
Considering this, look as science, how it is forever digging into the
extremes of the physical world. At one point they would require the energy
of the solarsystem to look as sub-sub-sub-atomic particles and also beyond
the last stars of the big bang. If we look at the human being alone, we end
up in an infinity of details, consequences of how the human evolved
biologically and psychologically. Science is useful for finding oil and
making mircowaves, but as you will notice, it will approach infinity with
all research subjects, eg: answers will only raise more questions.
So from our perspective, the physical universe is 0, nothing.
Now: do you remember what happened to you before you were born? No. Do the
dead come back? No. Perhaps in some unknown way, but it has not yet been
found out. From our perspective, our experience is finite. But from the
physical perspective, our 'spirituality' is nothing, our bodies will just
decay and return to the CO2 cycle where it came from. It is not physically
possible to discern spirituality. There's always a reason.
So there are two reasons for everything. A religious person will attribute
everything to God, a scientist will attribute everything to the logic of
causality. Buddha realised this duality and believed in a way out of it. Not
happiness, not sadness, but contentness. If you want this, you have to let
go of everything that will make you an 'I', even your loved ones. Obviously,
you don't have to do what Buddha did and seclude yourself totally, the trick
is to live your life as you would normally do, but be aware of everything
you do and do not let anything distract you from that you are doing. If you
are thinking about something, be aware of that you are thinking of
something. The reason for this is that you train yourself to properly 'see'
the world for what it really is (not dual) and not through unconscious
prejudices. Sounds paradoxal but not accepting a paradox is also part of
what creates two worlds (the logical and illogical).
As for Buddha, if he wanted to do it that way, that's up to him. It confused
me too at first, leaving his kid and wife sounds quite uncompassionate. But
he did it out of compassion for, not only them, but the whole world. Maybe
Buddhism has not freed the whole world, but at least it has saved some
souls... like Christianity... and Hinduism... and Islam... etc... better
than nothing right?

Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?

-Jeet.

User: "Jeet"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	17 Sep 2004 02:46:58 AM

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<4149b82a$0$36861$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one.

What is your definition of enlightenment?

I don't have definition. I am saying it just because other people say
it. Siddharth's mind was "occupied" by teaching vipassana to others
all the life. If he had followed the same in lonelyness in jungle
throughout rest of his life, then he would have realised that any mind
free from craving slowly falls in state of zeroness.
By the way, his urge to teach vipassana, dhamma to others was also
"craving".

Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever.

Again "enlightnement". What does this word mean? If it used for
discovery of knowledge which can be used for benefits of others, then
Newton, Einstein, all the inventors, exploreres etc. can also be
called "enlightned".
And so far if reincarnation, rebirth stuff is true, then I do not
understand what he is doing somewhere for 2500 years in state of
"enlightenment". Isn't he bored enough? If he is "enlightned", he
should be aware that still there is miseries on earth, then what he is
doing out there somewhere.
Perhaps he is afraid that if he "reincarnate" himeself, people will
stone him because in "previous life" he said that "person who is
enlightned can not reborn". He is trapped in his own words!!

I think

First of all, the whole idea behind enlightenment is to escape this duality:
happiness - sadness; action - reaction; left - right; because indeed, for
every extreme, there is one to oppose it.

If it is so, then if you are not happy or sad, then tell me what your
feeling is? I think or rather feel, that it is feeling of zeroness.
You would say that it is state of peace, contentness, but this state
of mind is also just another shade of feeling of happiness(just like
color can have different shades).
I was in Vipassana meditation camp for five days, from 08 sept. to 13
sept. What I noticed that people do this vipassana meditation by
observing sensations on body, do it because it is told that in the end
they will feel even sensation of waves, moving electrons in their body
and it gives feeling of "happiness". Sometime it is also told that
this meditation lessen tensions on your mind. I think(or "feel" from
my daily experiences) that if tension is released, then I feel
happiness.
Vipassana meditation, be it for freeing from birth-rebirth cycle or
just for lessening tension, people do it because they "crave" for it.
But Siddharth say that this Vipassana technic is for freeing our mind
from "cravings". What is going on here?

This is only relevant if we
consider a point of reference, ie: you. We have a concept of 'I' and this
separates us from the rest of the world. I and the rest.
Now take the example of infinity: mathematicians still have problems
defining infinity, here are two definitions:

Infinity And Zero. I banged, scratched my head for at least four
years. But after watching all the three parts of movie "The Matrix"
and making relevence of it with my theory, infinity and zero, are no
more problems for me in physics world. After watching that movie, you
can not ask what was the length of universe in which "Anderson" was
living. It was just Matrix, dream, programme. Just like it, everything
we see is Matrix, dream, programme. We all the people living in it
like "Anderson" can not ask what is the radius of this universe. It
exists, but it does not exist. Forget about movie, you can "see and
feel" the same Matrix in your dreams. Does your dream exist? What is
the radius of the world in your dreams?

[snip]

As for Buddha, if he wanted to do it that way, that's up to him. It confused
me too at first, leaving his kid and wife sounds quite uncompassionate. But
he did it out of compassion for, not only them, but the whole world. Maybe
Buddhism has not freed the whole world, but at least it has saved some
souls... like Christianity... and Hinduism... and Islam... etc... better
than nothing right?

Yes, sometime in our life we have to take decisions on the basis of
larger interest. But still, Siddharth's actions were completely wrong.
He should have returned to wordly life and to his family after
achieving his "enlightenment".

-Jeet.
.

User: "AW"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	17 Sep 2004 03:40:17 AM

"Jeet" <Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409162346.7056065e@posting.google.com...

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<4149b82a$0$36861$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

Are you sad? Can I help?

I'll answer your other posts later, if you don't mind. Just quickly this:

You hit the nail on the head here. This samsara stuff is the programme,
enlightenment is escaping the programme. The producers of the Matrix were
inspired by Buddhism. As for infinity and zero, it results in some
interesting Mathematics. Check out y = 1/x. With x as the physical and y as
the spiritual. y = 1/x would be samsara because it has two infinities along
x and along y. But Nirvana, according to Buddhists, is y = x, which is
nirvana. What would the intersections of y = 1/x and y = x be?

I have to admit that you do have a good point here. Also what you mentioned
earlier about being 'stuck in his own words'. But Tibetan Buddhists would
have you believe that he (and other enlightened ones) are helping us, but
not through a body. Have you read 'Tibetan Book for Living and Dying'?.

-Jeet.

AW
.

User: "Orel Haitch"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	16 Sep 2004 08:08:08 AM

On 16 Sep 2004 06:04:41 -0700,

(Jeet)
wrote:

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<41487dea$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

"Jeet" <

> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one. Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever. I think
Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).

For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?

Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?

-Jeet.

Just look at the Buddhist newsgroups if you want proof Buddha's
"Dhamma" doesn't work. Immorality and viciousness and insanity
abound.
.

User: "Evelyn Ruut"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	18 Sep 2004 06:49:37 AM

"Orel Haitch" <OrelHaitchspam@msn.com> wrote in message
news:9u3jk0d48nvo79iccov0uca62gjkppavj0@4ax.com...

On 16 Sep 2004 06:04:41 -0700,

(Jeet)
wrote:

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<41487dea$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

"Jeet" <

> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one. Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever. I think
Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).

For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?

Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?

-Jeet.

Just look at the Buddhist newsgroups if you want proof Buddha's
"Dhamma" doesn't work. Immorality and viciousness and insanity
abound.

Not so. That is evident on every newsgroup, political or religious. Why?
Because it is a human problem, not the fault of the philosophy itself.
Read what Buddha himself said, and you tell me where he endorsed the kind of
behavior you decry here. Nowhere. It is because it is human nature that
is this way, not the teachings of Buddha.
--
Regards,
Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
.

User: "Messer Xin"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	17 Sep 2004 07:50:29 AM

On 16 Sep 2004 06:04:41 -0700,

(Jeet)
wrote:

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one. Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever. I think
Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).

For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?

Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?

-Jeet.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 9:08:08 -0400, Orel Haitch wrote
(in message <9u3jk0d48nvo79iccov0uca62gjkppavj0@4ax.com>):

Just look at the Buddhist newsgroups if you want proof Buddha's
"Dhamma" doesn't work. Immorality and viciousness and insanity
abound.

Xin:
Just look at the Buddhist newsgroups if you want proof Buddha's "Dhamma"
works just as it's supposed to. Concern for the precepts, kindness, and basic
personal integrity abound.
--
"I merely borrowed somebody else's Perl scripts, loaded them up on my
Linux shell account and then edited them using vi in Bash.
I think that pretty comprehensively demonstrates that I am not a geek!"
---Kirsten "I am not a geek!" Bayes
.

User: "Lee Dillion"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	17 Sep 2004 08:43:45 AM

Messer Xin wrote:

On 16 Sep 2004 06:04:41 -0700,

(Jeet)
Just look at the Buddhist newsgroups if you want proof Buddha's
"Dhamma" doesn't work. Immorality and viciousness and insanity
abound.

Xin:
Just look at the Buddhist newsgroups if you want proof Buddha's "Dhamma"
works just as it's supposed to. Concern for the precepts, kindness, and basic
personal integrity abound.

If a person desires a world changing religion, then Buddhism seems like
a poor choice. Much better to seek out the near east religions of
Christianity and Islam, as their power to alter the world is apparent.
Personally, if I were to seek out worldly acting Gods that I could
implore to wreak vengeance on non-believers, I would look to the myths
of the North.
On the other hand, if a person is looking for a way to change the way in
which they conceptualize the world, then Buddhism may be a likely
candidate.
As for your observations regarding these newsgroups, and despite jeet's
concern about the "Immorality and viciousness and insanity [that]
abound" in these newsgroups, I agree that there are also those present
who seem to be practicing the dhamma.
--
Lee Dillion
.

User: "Sonny"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	16 Sep 2004 09:53:35 PM

Orel Haitch <OrelHaitchspam@msn.com> wrote in
news:9u3jk0d48nvo79iccov0uca62gjkppavj0@4ax.com:

On 16 Sep 2004 06:04:41 -0700,

(Jeet)
wrote:

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<41487dea$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

"Jeet" <

> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow".
By abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as
father. But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able
king. But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one. Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever. I think
Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).

For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?

Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?

-Jeet.

Just look at the Buddhist newsgroups if you want proof Buddha's
"Dhamma" doesn't work. Immorality and viciousness and insanity
abound.

Perhaps the Buddhist newsgroups are not really a good example of Buddhism
in action. So what, in your mind, does work?
.

User: "Bill Pfeifer"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	16 Sep 2004 10:38:09 PM

Orel Haitch wrote:

On 16 Sep 2004 06:04:41 -0700,

(Jeet)
wrote:

"AW" <stressedafrican@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<41487dea$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...

"Jeet" <

> wrote in message
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Are you sad? Can I help?

Mind free from all the craving is the mind in state of "zeroness", not
an enlightned one. Buddha was there in state of zeroness on that day
of enlightned. But he was "conscious in that state of zeroness".
Conscious mind can not remain in state of zeroness forever. I think
Buddha misinterpreted his state of mind as "enlightenment"(whatever
May It Be).

For every happiness, there is equal and opposite sadness(Like Newton's
third law of motion). How can happiness exist without sadness? Even
after 2500 years, we see sadness around the world. Certainly Buddha's
technic (dhamma chakra) is not working, otherwise everyone on earth
would have adopted it. After all who does not want happiness?

Siddharth misinterpreted whole thing. Can you help me on this?

-Jeet.

Just look at the Buddhist newsgroups if you want proof Buddha's
"Dhamma" doesn't work. Immorality and viciousness and insanity
abound.

Just look at almost *any* newsgroup (religious, philosophical, political,
or else) if you want proof that group's subject matter doesn't work.
To take a "Buddhist" newsgroup as representative of Buddhist practice
is beyond laughable.
.

User: "Sonny"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	16 Sep 2004 09:55:26 PM

(Jeet) wrote in
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Lemme guess, a slow day over at alt.hinduism?
.

User: "Jeet"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	17 Sep 2004 12:25:10 PM

Sonny <sonnyfabbich@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9566EADB02D13sonnyf@130.133.1.4>...

Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com (Jeet) wrote in
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Lemme guess, a slow day over at alt.hinduism?

Nope. I left Vipassana meditation camp after just 5 days (it was 10
day camp)because such questions were disturbing me. I had to stay for
1 day because teacher did not allow me to "flee". It was not possible
to ask such questions to teachers of vipassana meditation because it
was not right platform, nor right atmosphere. So I decided to give way
to my feelings here.
-Jeet.
============================================
Smith: Why, Mr. Anderson, why? Why? Why do you do it? Why? Why get up?
Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something, for
more than your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know?
Is it freedom, or truth, perhaps peace? Could it be for love?
Illusions, Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception, temporary constructs
of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence
that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as
the Matrix itself. Although... Only a human mind can invent something
as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson, you must
know it by now. You can't win, it is pointless to keep fighting. Why,
Mr. Anderson, why, why you persist?
Neo: Because I choose to.
======================================
.

User: "Sonny"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	18 Sep 2004 10:31:21 AM

(Jeet) wrote in
news:8d1edf6d.0409170925.766520cd@posting.google.com:

Sonny <sonnyfabbich@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns9566EADB02D13sonnyf@130.133.1.4>...

(Jeet) wrote in
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as
father. But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able
king. But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Lemme guess, a slow day over at alt.hinduism?

Nope.

The reason I asked is your use of the word "sin". Sin is something
normally associated with religions that have a belief in a creator being.
In Buddha's teaching there is no creator being and only one sin, the sin
of ignorance (false views).

I left Vipassana meditation camp after just 5 days (it was 10
day camp)because such questions were disturbing me. I had to stay for
1 day because teacher did not allow me to "flee". It was not possible
to ask such questions to teachers of vipassana meditation because it
was not right platform, nor right atmosphere.

I'm surprised that the teacher wouldn't answer your questions. This in
itself is not in the spirit of the Buddha's teachings. I'm curious as to
which Vipassana camp you attended, who sponsored it?

So I decided to give way to my feelings here.
-Jeet.

Yes, here in the Buddhist NG's as well as NG's totally unrelated to
Buddhism such as alt.atheism which kinda brings the honesty of your
intentions into question.
Why didn't you ask questions here, rather than phrasing your statements in
the form you did?
.

User: "Jeet"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	26 Sep 2004 01:49:28 PM

Sonny <sonnyfabbich@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns956876E19A283sonnyf@130.133.1.4>...

Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com (Jeet) wrote in
news:8d1edf6d.0409170925.766520cd@posting.google.com:

Sonny <sonnyfabbich@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns9566EADB02D13sonnyf@130.133.1.4>...

Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com (Jeet) wrote in
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as
father. But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able
king. But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Lemme guess, a slow day over at alt.hinduism?

Nope.

The reason I asked is your use of the word "sin". Sin is something
normally associated with religions that have a belief in a creator being.

If you have problem with word "sin", please call it "wrongdoings".

In Buddha's teaching there is no creator being and only one sin, the sin
of ignorance (false views).

In Buddhism, there is no "creator being i.e. God". Hence followers of
Siddharth are without God. But in distress, human beings need someone
"supernatural" to pull them out of agony. But in Buddhism there is no
God. Then Buddhists say that OK, Siddharth is our God. He will save
us. Buddham sharanam gachhami.
Buddhists can never understand Siddharth.

I'm surprised that the teacher wouldn't answer your questions. This in
itself is not in the spirit of the Buddha's teachings. I'm curious as to
which Vipassana camp you attended, who sponsored it?

I said that it was not right platform or right atmosphere. So I never
asked any question. And also, I do not waste my time if something is
not put on record to verify by others in future. If I had asked the
questions and coming back here if I had typed here that teacher said
so, then you would have said that I am lying. Because I would have no
proof to support it in that case.
I always prefer to put on record what I say and what others say.

So I decided to give way to my feelings here.
-Jeet.

Yes, here in the Buddhist NG's as well as NG's totally unrelated to
Buddhism such as alt.atheism which kinda brings the honesty of your
intentions into question.

You said that Buddha(Siddharth) was atheist. So what problem you have
if I crosspost it in alt.atheism?

Why didn't you ask questions here, rather than phrasing your statements in
the form you did?

That is the way of discussion in usenet. We make statements rather
than questions. And others make comments rather than answers.
-Abhijeet.
.

User: "Sonny"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	29 Sep 2004 11:09:36 PM

(Jeet) wrote in
news:8d1edf6d.0409261049.59cf13b5@posting.google.com:

Sonny <sonnyfabbich@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns956876E19A283sonnyf@130.133.1.4>...

(Jeet) wrote in
news:8d1edf6d.0409170925.766520cd@posting.google.com:

Sonny <sonnyfabbich@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns9566EADB02D13sonnyf@130.133.1.4>...

(Jeet) wrote in
news:8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow".
By abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as
father. But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able
king. But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

Lemme guess, a slow day over at alt.hinduism?

Nope.

The reason I asked is your use of the word "sin". Sin is something
normally associated with religions that have a belief in a creator
being.

If you have problem with word "sin", please call it "wrongdoings".

I have no problem with the word "sin" - just pointing out that this is a
concept derived from belief systems such as Xtianity, Islam, Hinduism,
etc. I assume that you are one of the above.

In Buddha's teaching there is no creator being and only one sin, the
sin of ignorance (false views).

In Buddhism, there is no "creator being i.e. God". Hence followers of
Siddharth are without God. But in distress, human beings need someone
"supernatural" to pull them out of agony.

Only those who are "conditioned" in such a way.

But in Buddhism there is no
God. Then Buddhists say that OK, Siddharth is our God. He will save
us. Buddham sharanam gachhami.

Maybe some Buddhists think that way, if they do it is an incorrect
understanding of the Buddha's teachings. Taking refuge in the Buddha means
to trust his teachings, not to believe or have faith in them. If you don't
trust the Buddha or his teachings then don't bother with them. Run away
from them! Run as fast as you can!

Buddhists can never understand Siddharth.

As another poster pointed out Siddhartha is gone, washed away, replaced by
the fully awakened one.

I left Vipassana meditation camp after just 5 days (it was 10
day camp)because such questions were disturbing me. I had to stay
for 1 day because teacher did not allow me to "flee". It was not
possible to ask such questions to teachers of vipassana meditation
because it was not right platform, nor right atmosphere.

I'm surprised that the teacher wouldn't answer your questions. This
in itself is not in the spirit of the Buddha's teachings. I'm curious
as to which Vipassana camp you attended, who sponsored it?

This doesn't really answer the questions I posed and the statements I
made. Is it possible that this Vipassana camp had nothing to do with
Buddhism? There are people who offer courses in Vipassana that aren't
Buddhist and are only out to make a buck.

I always prefer to put on record what I say and what others say.

So I decided to give way to my feelings here.
-Jeet.

Yes, here in the Buddhist NG's as well as NG's totally unrelated to
Buddhism such as alt.atheism which kinda brings the honesty of your
intentions into question.

You said that Buddha(Siddharth) was atheist. So what problem you have
if I crosspost it in alt.atheism?

Actually I didn't say the Buddha was an atheist - you did. As for having a
problem, I don't, it's just that most Xtian trolls like to have as wide an
audience as they can get when they try to attack someone else's views
however normally they'd crosspost to a group like alt.christnet.bible
where they'd get a much more sympathetic audience.

Why didn't you ask questions here, rather than phrasing your
statements in the form you did?

That is the way of discussion in usenet. We make statements rather
than questions. And others make comments rather than answers.

This is your perception of how Usenet works. People who are sincere ask
questions, those who are looking for a confrontation make statements,
which usually include distortions of the truth, in order to bait others.
This latter technique is known as trolling and you come pretty close to
fitting that bill.
If, on the other hand, you are truly sincere in your "concerns" about the
Buddha and his "sins" then my suggestion to you is to stay on whatever
path you're on.

-Abhijeet.

User: "Jeet"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	30 Sep 2004 09:51:06 AM

[snip]

If you don't
trust the Buddha or his teachings then don't bother with them. Run away
from them! Run as fast as you can!

I can sense mind of Siddharth. I know, what he was thinking, I know
what was his aim. He never told anybody. His aim was to convert
everybody as "monk" so that no one can marry, have children. There
will not be any continuation of human generation. His aim was to wipe
out mankind from earth.
There will not be any human being. So there will not be any suffering.
I know Siddharth better.
-Abhijeet.
==================================
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real. What
if you were unable to wake from that dream. How would you know the
difference between the dream world and the real world?
-The Matrix.
==================================
.

User: "cupcake"
Title: Baghdad Car Bombs Kill 34 Children Receiving Sweets	30 Sep 2004 03:50:43 PM

Baghdad Car Bombs Kill 34 Children Receiving Sweets

September 30, 2004
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Insurgents detonated three car bombs near a U.S.
military convoy in Baghdad on Thursday, killing 41 people, 34 of them
children who were rushing to collect sweets from American troops.
In two other attacks, a suicide bomber blew up his vehicle near a U.S.
checkpoint outside the capital, killing two policemen and a U.S.
soldier, and a car bomb killed four people in the restive northern
Iraq town of Tal Afar.
The Baghdad bombs went off as crowds gathered to celebrate the opening
of a new sewage plant. It was not clear if the event or the U.S.
convoy passing by was the target.
The first explosion was followed by two more that struck those who
rushed to help the initial victims, residents said...
.

User: "possum"
Title: Re: Baghdad Car Bombs Kill 34 Children Receiving Sweets	30 Sep 2004 05:17:40 PM

"cupcake" <t@r.slrup> wrote in message
news:Dk_6d.444$i_4.5293@news.more.net...

Baghdad Car Bombs Kill 34 Children Receiving Sweets

September 30, 2004

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Insurgents detonated three car bombs near a U.S.
military convoy in Baghdad on Thursday, killing 41 people, 34 of them
children who were rushing to collect sweets from American troops.
In two other attacks, a suicide bomber blew up his vehicle near a U.S.
checkpoint outside the capital, killing two policemen and a U.S.
soldier, and a car bomb killed four people in the restive northern
Iraq town of Tal Afar.
The Baghdad bombs went off as crowds gathered to celebrate the opening
of a new sewage plant. It was not clear if the event or the U.S.
convoy passing by was the target.
The first explosion was followed by two more that struck those who
rushed to help the initial victims, residents said...

Meanwhile, at the Labour Party Conference in Brighton, all the stops
were pulled out to spare Tony Blair, whose political vulnerability is well
known and understood by the terrorist group which beheaded the two kidnapped
americans and still holds british hostage ken bigley, embarrassment and
humiliation. a critical vote on early withdrawal from iraq was lost, with
overwhelming support of conference, after 'watering down' deals were struck
with the four biggest trade unions, and an emotional and impassioned speech
of support for blair from a former iraqi exile. what a find she was!
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour2004/story/0,14991,1316281,00.html
another video was released yesterday, the day of the release of the two
kidnapped Italian women, of a chained and orange- jumpsuited Mr. Bigley, in
a cage, pleading to tony blair for his life. it would certainly have
received major news coverage anyway, but there's little doubt the kidnappers
were aiming for maximum exploitation of Blair's precarious hold on the
labour party. the party conference is a major publicity event and headline
news for a week, and this year's conference, with a general election next
year, and questions of iraq and blair's leadership, drew more attention than
ever. in the event, it was deftly handled.
it used to be called 'playing politics with peoples' lives.
now it's 'Marketing a War'. or maybe, just Marketing.
possum
oh another thing. incredibly, nobody burst out laughing when Foreign
Secretary Jack Straw told conference it was wrong to call the occupation of
iraq an occupation. iraq is governed by the iraqi government, and anytime
they want to tell britain or america to leave, they'll leave. i'm not
joking, that's what he said!
.

User: "Trooper"
Title: Re: Baghdad Car Bombs Kill 34 Children Receiving Sweets	30 Sep 2004 09:55:06 PM

"cupcake" <t@r.slrup> wrote in message
news:Dk_6d.444$i_4.5293@news.more.net...

Baghdad Car Bombs Kill 34 Children Receiving Sweets

September 30, 2004

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Insurgents detonated three car bombs near a U.S.
military convoy in Baghdad on Thursday, killing 41 people, 34 of them
children who were rushing to collect sweets from American troops.
In two other attacks, a suicide bomber blew up his vehicle near a U.S.
checkpoint outside the capital, killing two policemen and a U.S.
soldier, and a car bomb killed four people in the restive northern
Iraq town of Tal Afar.
The Baghdad bombs went off as crowds gathered to celebrate the opening
of a new sewage plant. It was not clear if the event or the U.S.
convoy passing by was the target.
The first explosion was followed by two more that struck those who
rushed to help the initial victims, residents said...

We should pull out so they can have a civil war and the wahabbi's can kill
the rest of the children, whose parents dont agree with them. Clearly the
terrorists only value the lives of their own children. We should pull out
so they can have their way.
Troop
.

User: "cupcake"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	30 Sep 2004 10:26:28 AM

Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins

From:

(Jeet)
Reply to: [1]Jeet
Date: 30 Sep 2004 07:51:06 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups:
[2]talk.religion.buddhism,
[3]alt.religion.buddhism,
[4]alt.philosophy.debate,
[5]alt.atheism
Followup to: [6]newsgroups
References:
[7]<8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com>
[8]<Xns9566EADB02D13sonnyf@130.133.1.4>
[9]<8d1edf6d.0409170925.766520cd@posting.google.com>
[10]<Xns956876E19A283sonnyf@130.133.1.4>
[11]<8d1edf6d.0409261049.59cf13b5@posting.google.com>
[12]<Xns9574359DCA61sonnyf@130.133.1.4>
[snip]

If you don't
trust the Buddha or his teachings then don't bother with them. Run away
from them! Run as fast as you can!

yer as bad as Jonathan -- yu two shud team up

-Abhijeet.
==================================

User: "Jeet"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	01 Oct 2004 04:41:10 AM

cupcake <t@r.slrup> wrote in message news:<EAV6d.436$i_4.4804@news.more.net>...

Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins

From:

If you don't
trust the Buddha or his teachings then don't bother with them. Run away
from them! Run as fast as you can!

yer as bad as Jonathan -- yu two shud team up

I have attended vipassana camp in Igatpuri (maharashtra, India) twice.
I noticed following things:
(1) Initially it is told that vipassana meditation does not encourage
people to withdraw from society but to face ups and downs of life in
calm and balanced way.
(2) In vipassana camp, it is also told that those people are not
advancing any religion or trying to convert people in Buddhism.
But in fact things go like this:
(1) Attempt of "magical" atmosphere is created. You can not talk,
communicate to anybody in any manner. Contact with outside world is
snapped completely. Procedure of "brain wash" is started. And those
people talk nothing, absolutely nothing except Buddhism. Why only
Buddhism? All the religions have common foundation.
(2) Slowly those people deliberately provocate to become monk by
telling that mediatators can achive complete "Nirvana" / understand
teaching Buddha better if meditator become monk.
Consequences:
(A) If all the people decide to become monk, no one will marry, have
children. Human beings will be wiped out from face of earth.
(B) If all the people indeed achieve "Nirvana", there will not be any
rebirth in form of any life. Life will be completely wiped out from
face of earth.
Nice way to eradicate sufferings, Siddharth. Your job is not complete
yet.
Better Luck Next Life.
-Abhijeet.
=====================================
I amar prestar aen.
(The world has changed.)
Han mathon ne nen.
(I feel it in the water.)
Han mathon ne chae.
(I feel it in the earth.)
A han nostron ned wilith.
((and?) I smell it in the air.)
Much that once was, is lost
For none now live who remember it.
=======================================
.

User: "Rainer Dickermann"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	01 Nov 2004 04:30:27 AM

Hi, you funny idiot!
You are really giving me good time making me laugh a lot about your
nonsense! ROTFL :>
Are you planning a comedyshow or similar?
Well, maybe you don't know, but it is possible to make children in the first
place and then becoming a monk!
The Buddha himself had made a son before he went into homelessness.
So, what you think you know is just a reflection in your poor mind but not
the mind of the Buddha!
Rainer
"Jeet" <Abhijeet_B_Patil@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8d1edf6d.0409300651.6620ed0a@posting.google.com...

[snip]

If you don't
trust the Buddha or his teachings then don't bother with them. Run away
from them! Run as fast as you can!

I can sense mind of Siddharth. I know, what he was thinking, I know
what was his aim. He never told anybody. His aim was to convert
everybody as "monk" so that no one can marry, have children. There
will not be any continuation of human generation. His aim was to wipe
out mankind from earth.

There will not be any human being. So there will not be any suffering.

I know Siddharth better.

-Abhijeet.
==================================
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real. What
if you were unable to wake from that dream. How would you know the
difference between the dream world and the real world?
-The Matrix.
==================================

User: "Pig"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	18 Sep 2004 01:32:38 PM

(Jeet) wrote in message news:<8d1edf6d.0409150748.2a26053e@posting.google.com>...

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

The way I look at this is that Siddharth was very much a human person
like you or me. There are many heroic interpretations and 'myths'
about his life but maybe he just couldn't cope? Who knows his mind? I
certainly don't.
Some people here pointed out to me that the 'power' of your four
observations is that it can be read allegorically i.e. that he found
peace by giving up everything including his 'duties'. In otherwords
you don't need any 'attachements' to be at peace infact quite the
contrary.
After becoming the Buddha it seems to me that he did not do any
intentional harm...
(Well, that's what the records seems to say...)
Cheers, Stefan
.

User: "Andrew Eatock"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	27 Sep 2004 11:57:15 PM

Siddharta was not enlightened until after these events when he became
the buddha.
The "sins" mentioned have been greatly eclipsed by the amount of
people the buddha has helped in his lifetime and also until now ! (The
wheel of the dharma is still spinning).
He also taught the Dharma to his son and mother who became a monk and
a nun I believe , I would also assume he taught his father and ex-wife
but I do not know about that, that would be a greater gift than
anything he could have given as Siddharta.
Regards,
Andrew :-)
.

User: "Alexander Mulligan"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	15 Sep 2004 11:36:53 AM

In talk.religion.buddhism, Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

I don't believe a word of that. Please post references.
Ones that include all of the circumstances surrounding each of these
alleged actions/inactions and the reasons the Buddha gave for choosing
them.
If you don't, I am killfiling you for the ignoble sin of being Usenet
vermin; a troll.
Here's what the whois database says about your IP address, found in
the NNTP-Posting-Host header:
----------------------------------------
$ whois 61.1.91.32
% [whois.apnic.net node-1]
% Whois data copyright terms http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html
inetnum: 61.0.0.0 - 61.1.255.255
netname: BSNLNET
descr: National Internet Backbone
descr: Bharat Sanchar Nigam Limited
descr: Sanchar Bhawan, 20, Ashoka Road, New Delhi-110001, India
country: IN
admin-c: NC83-AP
tech-c: CDN1-AP
mnt-by: APNIC-HM
mnt-lower: MAINT-IN-DOT
changed:

20010814
status: ALLOCATED PORTABLE
source: APNIC
role: NS Cell
address: Internet Cell
address: Bharat Sanchar Nigam Limited
address: 8th Floor,148-B Statesman House
address: Barakhamba Road, New Delhi - 110 001
country: IN
phone: +91-11-23734057
phone: +91-11-23710183
fax-no: +91-11-23372252
e-mail:

e-mail:

admin-c: CGMD1-AP
tech-c: DT197-AP
nic-hdl: NC83-AP
mnt-by: MAINT-IN-DOT
changed:

20030120
source: APNIC
role: CGM Data Networks
address: Lobby 1 , 4th Floor
address: Mahanagar Doorsanchar Sadan
address: 9 CGO Complex , Lodhi Road , New Delhi
country: IN
phone: +91-11-24326781
phone: +91-11-23737571
fax-no: +91-11-24326783
fax-no: +91-11-23737573
e-mail:

e-mail:

admin-c: CGMD1-AP
tech-c: DT197-AP
tech-c: BH155-AP
nic-hdl: CDN1-AP
mnt-by: MAINT-IN-DOT
changed:

20030120
source: APNIC
----------------------------------------
Your ISP can be found at:
http://www.sancharnet.in/
<+>
--
Bells Ring Under Cerulean Ecstasy
.

User: "Jeet"
Title: Re: Buddha And His Four Noble Sins	16 Sep 2004 01:31:29 AM

Alexander Mulligan <alexander@mail2america.com> wrote in message news:<2qr9d4F136a8fU1@uni-berlin.de>...

In talk.religion.buddhism, Jeet wrote:

(1) He left his wife forcing her to live life of "monk's widow". By
abandoning his wife, he destroyed her happiness.

(2) He could have given love to his son as it was his duty as father.
But he called his son as "obstacle" and left his son.

(3) He also left his old father ignoring his duties as son.

(4) He could have eradicated miseries of people by becoming able king.
But he ignored his duty towards his kingdom.

These are "Four Noble Sins" committed by Siddharth.

-Jeet.

I don't believe a word of that. Please post references.

You got google search. Type keywords like "buddha, life, wife, son,
father etc.."

Ones that include all of the circumstances surrounding each of these
alleged actions/inactions and the reasons the Buddha gave for choosing
them.

Only reason was to "find TRUTH to eradicate miseries of people".

If you don't, I am killfiling you for the ignoble sin of being Usenet
vermin; a troll.

This is your "reaction". In Buddha's words, "Ignorance lead to
reaction".
You do not know about life of Buddha. This ignorance lead you to such
reaction. Buddha was a great personality. This is why I am taking my
time to read about him, thinking about him. I do not waste my time
reading, thinking about stupid people.
He was driven by a noble cause, to find truth to eradicate miseries,
sufferings of people. But in these efforts his wife, son, father,
family had to suffer. In my opinion, this was sin.
What is disturbing that we are being taught that just following the
"Vipassana Meditation", people can become "pure, free from all the
craving, attachments" and they will not have to reborn. If rebirth
really does exist, then this seems to be nice way. Committ crime, sin
and just follow vipassana meditation. You will not take rebirth,
neither you will be punished in next life for your mistakes, sins in
this life.
Buddha was atheist, I repeat he was "ATHEIST". But I believe in God.
If rebirth really does exist, he will be punished for his sins in next
life. And yes, he will also be rewarded for giving his life for boble
cause.

Here's what the whois database says about your IP address, found in
the NNTP-Posting-Host header:

You could have used google search. I do not hide my identity. I got my
whole address posted at many places. Refere sci.physics. For your
information..
Name: Abhijeet Brijalal Patil. Country: India, State: Maharashtra,
District: Nandurbar, City: Shahada, Colony: Vidyavihar Colony, House
No: 2, First Floor. C/o: L R Patil, Phone Number: 91-2565-223794.
Please note. My views might be wrong, extreme. But I do not take troll
in usenet.
-Jeet.
.

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