| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Steven L." |
| Date: |
12 Jan 2005 01:53:04 PM |
| Object: |
Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they
see fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we
have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you
see fit.
"On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from
my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with
the Lord."
Bush has often said that he is a religious man who supports freedom of
religion, but yesterday may be the first time he has so clearly
suggested in his use of words that he harbors the feeling that these two
principles are to some degree in conflict.
You don't use the "other hand" construction for two concepts that
complement each other. And his suggestion that someone is not qualified
to be president unless they are religious is sure to spark some further
discussion.
There's another enigmatic quote from the same interview:
"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say
that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person,"
Bush said. "I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think
that's just the way it is."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/
[
"I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think that's just
the way it is."
For someone who's supposed to be a "moron," that is a beautifully
constructed statement: He won't say it or act on it--but he wants you
to know that's what he believes all the same.
]
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| User: "ronin" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 02:46:25 PM |
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"Steven L." <> wrote in message
news:AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they
see fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we
have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you
see fit.
"On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from
my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with
the Lord."
Bush has often said that he is a religious man who supports freedom of
religion, but yesterday may be the first time he has so clearly
suggested in his use of words that he harbors the feeling that these two
principles are to some degree in conflict.
You don't use the "other hand" construction for two concepts that
complement each other. And his suggestion that someone is not qualified
to be president unless they are religious is sure to spark some further
discussion.
There's another enigmatic quote from the same interview:
"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say
that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person,"
Bush said. "I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think
that's just the way it is."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/
[
"I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think that's just
the way it is."
For someone who's supposed to be a "moron," that is a beautifully
constructed statement: He won't say it or act on it--but he wants you
to know that's what he believes all the same.
]
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Bush - what a moron.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 03:26:48 PM |
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"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how you
can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see
fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we
have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you
see fit.
As long as it's the christian god
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| User: "Steven L." |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 03:49:24 PM |
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kathryn wrote:
"Steven L." < > wrote in message
news:AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how you
can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see
fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we
have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you
see fit.
As long as it's the christian god
He didn't say we have to worship the Christian God. Just some kind of
faith.
"The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion--not freedom from religion"
-- Sen. Joseph Lieberman
Yes I know, the Supreme Court ruled otherwise. But Supreme Court
rulings can change--and often have.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| User: "Gail Futoran" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 05:55:19 PM |
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"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote
[snip]
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
He didn't say we have to worship the Christian God. Just some kind of
faith.
[snip]
And/or six kinds of bs. My "faith" is in nature (to be
kind or kill, help or harm ... but mostly just ignore me
and mine); in my family and friends; in myself. That's
not a religion by any stretch of the imagination on the
part of anyone who has at least 10% of their brain intact.
Oh ... wait ... that IS the problem with the religious
nuts, ain't it?
Warrior Gardener
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 04:45:14 PM |
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"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:EXgFd.4755$KJ2.437@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
kathryn wrote:
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they
see fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we
have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you
see fit.
As long as it's the christian god
He didn't say we have to worship the Christian God. Just some kind of
faith.
He didn't have to, we can read between the lines.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
17 Jan 2005 09:03:21 AM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:49:24 GMT, "Steven L."
<sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
kathryn wrote:
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how you
can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see
fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we
have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you
see fit.
As long as it's the christian god
He didn't say we have to worship the Christian God. Just some kind of
faith.
The specification wasn't needed.
"The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion--not freedom from religion"
-- Sen. Joseph Lieberman
Yes I know, the Supreme Court ruled otherwise. But Supreme Court
rulings can change--and often have.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
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| User: "John Starrett" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 06:57:47 PM |
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Steven L. wrote:
kathryn wrote:
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see
how you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always
be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as
they see fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom
we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the
way you see fit.
As long as it's the christian god
He didn't say we have to worship the Christian God. Just some kind of
faith.
No. He said "the Lord" and you and I *both* know what that means. Not
that his opinions on the matter mean anything, but that is what he said.
John Starrett
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| User: "Northern Storm" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 09:36:09 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:57:47 -0700, John Starrett <jstarret@sdc.org>
wrote:
Steven L. wrote:
kathryn wrote:
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see
how you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always
be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as
they see fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom
we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the
way you see fit.
As long as it's the christian god
He didn't say we have to worship the Christian God. Just some kind of
faith.
No. He said "the Lord" and you and I *both* know what that means. Not
that his opinions on the matter mean anything, but that is what he said.
John Starrett
Still tough to tell what he meant, since the Jesus bush the turd
speaks of has nothing in common with the Jesus in the Holy Bible.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
13 Jan 2005 08:50:33 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:36:09 -0800, Northern Storm
<forgetit@nospam.com> said in alt.atheism:
Still tough to tell what he meant, since the Jesus bush the turd
speaks of has nothing in common with the Jesus in the Holy Bible.
Then again, Jesus and what's currently called Christianity have very
little in common.
--
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Northern Storm" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
14 Jan 2005 03:16:46 AM |
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On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 02:50:33 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:36:09 -0800, Northern Storm
<forgetit@nospam.com> said in alt.atheism:
Still tough to tell what he meant, since the Jesus bush the turd
speaks of has nothing in common with the Jesus in the Holy Bible.
Then again, Jesus and what's currently called Christianity have very
little in common.
Sadly true.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
17 Jan 2005 09:06:12 AM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:36:09 -0800, Northern Storm
<forgetit@nospam.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:57:47 -0700, John Starrett <jstarret@sdc.org>
wrote:
Steven L. wrote:
kathryn wrote:
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see
how you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always
be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as
they see fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom
we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the
way you see fit.
As long as it's the christian god
He didn't say we have to worship the Christian God. Just some kind of
faith.
No. He said "the Lord" and you and I *both* know what that means. Not
that his opinions on the matter mean anything, but that is what he said.
John Starrett
Still tough to tell what he meant, since the Jesus bush the turd
speaks of has nothing in common with the Jesus in the Holy Bible.
Except: lying, hypocracy, ordering theft, Sociopath/Psychopath, Pride,
Ego, lack of compassion, lack of empathy, lack of humanity, lack of
justice, and lack of proportion. Those are the traits I can list
immediately.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
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| User: "David Grossmann" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
21 Jan 2005 11:43:30 AM |
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The phrase "freedom of religion" is not in the constitution. There are
limits to the practice of religion. For example, bigamy is outlawed in
our country and people who believe in it are often "persecuted" by the
state for practicing it. Parents who refuse medical treatment for their
children on religious grounds are sometimes prosecuted for their
actions. In the South, those who wish to handle snakes as a show of
faith are sometimes singled out for harrassment by law enforcement
officials. There is no such thing as a completely unfettered freedom of
religion in this country and there is nothing in the constitution that
even implies there is unfettered freedom of religion. There are those
who believe homosexuals should be killed but the law prohibits them
from acting out on those beliefs. There are some who believe all
Christians should observe the Saturday Sabbath but they are rendered
powerless by the government from imposing that belief on others. Still
others believe heretics should be killed but there are laws that keep
them from carrying these penalties out. In short, there is no such
thing as total unfettered freedom of religion in the constitution and
since the phrase itself doesn't even appear in the constitution any
inference drawn from that particular phrase is invalid.
The phrase itself is an inference, and is in the same category as
freedom of speech or freedom of the press. Freedom of the press and
speech are not unfettered either, as there are laws that prohibit
certain kinds of speech in certain circumstances. Certainly "freedom of
the press" (an inference from the constitution) doesn't mean we are NOT
free from the press, no more than "freedom of speech" means we are NOT
free from speech. We certainly have freedom from speech if we so desire
and are not required to submit to any speech nor to have to listen to
any speech we deem offensive.
Just as freedom of speech has its limits (imagine if no one was
guaranteed freedom ~from~ speech, then atheists would be allowed to
enter churches and speak out during the services without legal
liability) so does any supposed freedom of religion. Since the phrase
is not found in the constitution we must rely on inferences and there
is absolutely nothing in the constitution that demands we MUST have a
religion. Moreover, there is nothing in the constitution that denies
us the freedom FROM religion. True freedom of religion cannot be had if
we must choose a religion, even one that denies our basic beliefs or
principles. Those who infer the principle of freedom of religion from
the constitution are wrong when they claim the principle of freedom of
religon denies us the freedom from religion. Such a belief is
mean-spirited and dangerous and must be opposed. Naturally those who
don't care about the feelings of others will complain if they are
opposed and will call such opposition "persecution" but that is okay.
It has always been a tradition of some Christians to scream
"persecution" at every opportunity. We get used to it.
The principles found in the constitution do not prohibit one from
seeking out the religion of their choice, as long as any laws of the
land are not broken, but the priniple is clear that we all have the
freedom to refuse religion as well. There is no true freedom of
religion when you have no freedom to refuse one. Just as freedom to
choose good includes the freedom to refuse good (free-will is a basic
tenent of Christianity) so the freedom of religion inferred from the
constitution grants us the freedom to choose no religion.
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
21 Jan 2005 12:22:08 PM |
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David Grossmann wrote:
< Some very good stuff >
Very nice. Direct, well thought out, well written.
Only comment I can make on it is this;
Good luck convincing any but none believers of it validity.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 06:34:01 PM |
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"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in news:AefFd.5391
$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
You can be president with no grasp of reality, unencumbered by the thought
process.
--
Enkidu AA# 2165
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Epicurus 341-270 B.C.E.
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| User: "gaffo" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 08:06:18 PM |
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Enkidu wrote:
I'm told there is a passage in the Old Testament (Danial I think) which
states "I am good, yet create evil"
so malevolent seems to be the most apt.
--
Oh! Death to Nancy
What is this taht I can see
Cold icy hands taking hold of me
for Death has come, you all can see.
Hell has open it,s gate to trick me.
Oh! Death, Oh! Death, can't you spare
me, over for another year!
I'll stuff your jaws till you can't talk
I'll blind your leg's till you can't walk
I'll tie your hands till you can't make a
stand.
And finally I'll close your eyes so you
can't see
I'll bring sexual death unto you for me.
B.T.K.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
T’ was perfect plan of deviant pleasure so bold on that Spring nite
My inner felling hot with propension of the new awakening season
Warn, wet with inner fear and rapture, my pleasure of entanglement, like
new vines at night
Oh, Anna, Why Didn’t You Appear
Drop of fear fresh Spring rain would roll down from your nakedness to
scent to lofty fever that burns within,
In that small world of longing, fear, rapture, and desparation, the game
we play, fall on devil ears
Fantasy spring forth, mounts, to storm fury, then winter clam at the end.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
Alone, now in another time span I lay with sweet enrapture garments
across most private thought
Bed of Spring moist grass, clean before the sun, enslaved with control,
warm wind scenting the air, sun light sparkle tears in eyes so deep and
clear.
Alone again I trod in pass memory of mirrors, and ponder why for number
eight was not.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
B.T.K.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
17 Jan 2005 09:08:09 AM |
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On 13 Jan 2005 00:34:01 GMT, Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in news:AefFd.5391
$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
You can be president with no grasp of reality, unencumbered by the thought
process.
As the Shrub demonstrates to the country's ruin.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 02:48:51 PM |
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GW, the only man to enter the office of President with a criminal
record. Admitted cocaine user. Admitted and arrested drunk driver.
Had a felony drunk driving arrest stricken from police records. And we
are worried about athiests?
Bush had his felony drunk driving arrest stricken from police records.
A friend of mine who was busted for having a fake ID when he was 17 and
who refused to rat out the guy who made the fake ID for him was framed
for a felony as punishment by the Police Department in Harwich,
Massachusetts, about 20 years ago. Meanwhile, GW does whatever the
hell he wants.
Aaron Hirshberg
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| User: "gaffo" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 08:03:05 PM |
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wrote:
GW, the only man to enter the office of President with a criminal
record. Admitted cocaine user. Admitted and arrested drunk driver.
Had a felony drunk driving arrest stricken from police records. And we
are worried about athiests?
Bush had his felony drunk driving arrest stricken from police records.
A friend of mine who was busted for having a fake ID when he was 17 and
who refused to rat out the guy who made the fake ID for him was framed
for a felony as punishment by the Police Department in Harwich,
Massachusetts, about 20 years ago.
BS - I made my own fake around the same time. my best friend did also.
We were both "caught" - I by a bartender. Nothing happened except I
didn't get my drink.
My buddy was found out when he got a new license and forget to "unforge"
his old license. He got a "friendly phonecall" from the Department of
Public Safety - and basically that was it.
no felony - especially if the offense is a mistermeanor at most!
Meanwhile, GW does whatever the
hell he wants.
Aaron Hirshberg
--
Oh! Death to Nancy
What is this taht I can see
Cold icy hands taking hold of me
for Death has come, you all can see.
Hell has open it,s gate to trick me.
Oh! Death, Oh! Death, can't you spare
me, over for another year!
I'll stuff your jaws till you can't talk
I'll blind your leg's till you can't walk
I'll tie your hands till you can't make a
stand.
And finally I'll close your eyes so you
can't see
I'll bring sexual death unto you for me.
B.T.K.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
T’ was perfect plan of deviant pleasure so bold on that Spring nite
My inner felling hot with propension of the new awakening season
Warn, wet with inner fear and rapture, my pleasure of entanglement, like
new vines at night
Oh, Anna, Why Didn’t You Appear
Drop of fear fresh Spring rain would roll down from your nakedness to
scent to lofty fever that burns within,
In that small world of longing, fear, rapture, and desparation, the game
we play, fall on devil ears
Fantasy spring forth, mounts, to storm fury, then winter clam at the end.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
Alone, now in another time span I lay with sweet enrapture garments
across most private thought
Bed of Spring moist grass, clean before the sun, enslaved with control,
warm wind scenting the air, sun light sparkle tears in eyes so deep and
clear.
Alone again I trod in pass memory of mirrors, and ponder why for number
eight was not.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
B.T.K.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
13 Jan 2005 08:48:38 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 02:03:05 GMT, gaffo <gaffo@usenet.net> said in
alt.atheism:
aaronhirshberg@yahoo.com wrote:
A friend of mine who was busted for having a fake ID when he was 17 and
who refused to rat out the guy who made the fake ID for him was framed
for a felony as punishment by the Police Department in Harwich,
Massachusetts, about 20 years ago.
BS - I made my own fake around the same time. my best friend did also.
We were both "caught" - I by a bartender. Nothing happened except I
didn't get my drink.
And your experience has what to do with his friend's experience?
--
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
- Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "John Starrett" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
13 Jan 2005 07:20:35 PM |
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gaffo wrote:
aaronhirshberg@yahoo.com wrote:
GW, the only man to enter the office of President with a criminal
record. Admitted cocaine user. Admitted and arrested drunk driver.
Had a felony drunk driving arrest stricken from police records. And we
are worried about athiests?
Bush had his felony drunk driving arrest stricken from police records.
A friend of mine who was busted for having a fake ID when he was 17 and
who refused to rat out the guy who made the fake ID for him was framed
for a felony as punishment by the Police Department in Harwich,
Massachusetts, about 20 years ago.
BS - I made my own fake around the same time. my best friend did also.
We were both "caught" - I by a bartender. Nothing happened except I
didn't get my drink.
My buddy was found out when he got a new license and forget to "unforge"
his old license. He got a "friendly phonecall" from the Department of
Public Safety - and basically that was it.
Yes, your experience is universal. Nothing *ever* can deviate from that
which you have experienced.
John Starrett
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| User: "Julian D." |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 09:13:13 PM |
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On 12 Jan 2005 12:48:51 -0800, wrote:
GW, the only man to enter the office of President with a criminal
record. Admitted cocaine user. Admitted and arrested drunk driver.
Had a felony drunk driving arrest stricken from police records. And we
are worried about athiests?
Bush had his felony drunk driving arrest stricken from police records.
A friend of mine who was busted for having a fake ID when he was 17 and
who refused to rat out the guy who made the fake ID for him was framed
for a felony as punishment by the Police Department in Harwich,
Julian's Maxim #22:
Don't be friends with criminals.
Massachusetts, about 20 years ago. Meanwhile, GW does whatever the
hell he wants.
Aaron Hirshberg
JD
Iraq had as much to do with 9-11 as Germany had with Pearl Harbor.
-Steven L.
"I think the natural instinct for most people in the political world is
that they want people to like them," Bush said. "On the other hand,
I think sometimes I take kind of a delight in who the critics are."
-President George W. Bush
Time's Person Of The Year
2004
"The course of this nation does not depend on the decisions of
others."
-President George W. Bush
SOA
2003
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
13 Jan 2005 04:43:58 AM |
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In article <AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
"On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from
my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with
the Lord."
So I guess he won't be voting for me when I run for presidet in 2012. I
think I can live with that disappointment. {;-)
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Bradley K. Sherman" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 01:54:47 PM |
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In article <AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Steven L. <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
[
"I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think that's just
the way it is."
For someone who's supposed to be a "moron," that is a beautifully
constructed statement: He won't say it or act on it--but he wants you
to know that's what he believes all the same.
But now he *has* said it, so he can never say that again.
--bks
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 08:42:26 PM |
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In article <AefFd.5391$C52.3081@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net says...
"On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from
my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with
the Lord."
Yes, but then bush doesn't see many things, like the fact that there are
not two 'u's in "nuclear" or that pro-wrestling is fake, or that things
have gone to ***** in Iraq, or that every word issuing from his mouth is
slobber-coated with his own personal idiocy.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "El Rayo-X" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 09:19:54 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:53:04 GMT, "Steven L."
<> wrote:
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
I'm quite sure that Bush could fill many fat newpapers with a long
tedious list of things he doesn't "see". I'd be more interested in
seeing a compilation of things that he does understand.
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they
see fit," Bush said.>
That is the biggest load of ***** I've seen in a while. His job has
nothing to do with that.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we
have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you
see fit.
....so long as your religion is on the list of government approved
religions." he continued, "Otherwise, we might have to put you in
jail."
"On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from
my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with
the Lord."
That's exactly right. You would lose all the votes of those who
identify with your stupidity.
Bush has often said that he is a religious man who supports freedom of
religion, but yesterday may be the first time he has so clearly
suggested in his use of words that he harbors the feeling that these two
principles are to some degree in conflict.
You don't use the "other hand" construction for two concepts that
complement each other. And his suggestion that someone is not qualified
to be president unless they are religious is sure to spark some further
discussion.
There's another enigmatic quote from the same interview:
"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say
that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person,"
Bush said.
No, people attack you because you're a hypocritical, delusional,
fascist simpleton.
"I've never said that. I've never acted like that.
Yes you have.
I think
that's just the way it is."
Bingo.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/
[
"I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think that's just
the way it is."
For someone who's supposed to be a "moron," that is a beautifully
constructed statement: He won't say it or act on it--but he wants you
to know that's what he believes all the same.
]
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| User: "sanguinevikings" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
13 Jan 2005 12:58:19 AM |
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El Rayo-X wrote:
I'm quite sure that Bush could fill many fat newpapers with a long
tedious list of things he doesn't "see". I'd be more interested in
seeing a compilation of things that he does understand.
OK, here goes:
Did you find that interesting?
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
13 Jan 2005 08:53:37 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 06:58:19 +0000, sanguinevikings <spam@spam.not>
said in alt.atheism:
El Rayo-X wrote:
I'm quite sure that Bush could fill many fat newpapers with a long
tedious list of things he doesn't "see". I'd be more interested in
seeing a compilation of things that he does understand.
OK, here goes:
Did you find that interesting?
You beat me to it.
--
"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the
type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his
physical death is also beyond my comprehension,...; such notions are for the fears or
absurd egoism of feeble souls."
- Albert Einstein
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
17 Jan 2005 09:14:02 AM |
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 03:19:54 GMT, (El Rayo-X) wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:53:04 GMT, "Steven L."
<sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
I'm quite sure that Bush could fill many fat newpapers with a long
tedious list of things he doesn't "see". I'd be more interested in
seeing a compilation of things that he does understand.
/cue single blank-paged drool splattered book.
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
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| User: "pain." |
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| Title: He's talking to the Moonies about Christianity!!! |
12 Jan 2005 02:30:07 PM |
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Steven L. posted:
President Bush told the REVEREND MOON yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
OH, FOR *****'S SAKE.
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| User: "gaffo" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 07:49:44 PM |
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Steven L. wrote:
"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say
that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person,"
precisely - every major speech leading up to the illegal Iraq invasion
was steeped in the NationalReligousReich melding.
Think of it as Mega-malignant Manifest Destiny - Sort of a demented
blind faith in the USSA as God's chosen Nation.
A modern-day Ziochristian Reich equivalent to the Kings of Old Judea's
beleif that Judea was God's Nation.
Just as then when the Prophet Amos condemned such haughty arrogance,
people of goodwill comdemn and warn against such a mindest of "inate
specialness"
Bush said. "I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think
that's just the way it is."
Humility is the enemy of Bu$h's character.
--
Oh! Death to Nancy
What is this taht I can see
Cold icy hands taking hold of me
for Death has come, you all can see.
Hell has open it,s gate to trick me.
Oh! Death, Oh! Death, can't you spare
me, over for another year!
I'll stuff your jaws till you can't talk
I'll blind your leg's till you can't walk
I'll tie your hands till you can't make a
stand.
And finally I'll close your eyes so you
can't see
I'll bring sexual death unto you for me.
B.T.K.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
T’ was perfect plan of deviant pleasure so bold on that Spring nite
My inner felling hot with propension of the new awakening season
Warn, wet with inner fear and rapture, my pleasure of entanglement, like
new vines at night
Oh, Anna, Why Didn’t You Appear
Drop of fear fresh Spring rain would roll down from your nakedness to
scent to lofty fever that burns within,
In that small world of longing, fear, rapture, and desparation, the game
we play, fall on devil ears
Fantasy spring forth, mounts, to storm fury, then winter clam at the end.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
Alone, now in another time span I lay with sweet enrapture garments
across most private thought
Bed of Spring moist grass, clean before the sun, enslaved with control,
warm wind scenting the air, sun light sparkle tears in eyes so deep and
clear.
Alone again I trod in pass memory of mirrors, and ponder why for number
eight was not.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
B.T.K.
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| User: "gaffo" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 07:49:05 PM |
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Steven L. wrote:
"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say
that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person,"
precisely - every major speech leading up to the illegal Iraq invasion
was steeped in the NationalReligousReich melding.
Think of it as Mega-malignant Manifet Destiny - Sort of a demented blind
faith in the USSA as God' chosen Nation.
A modern-day Ziochristian Reich equivalent to the Kings of Old Judea's
beleife that Judea was God's Nation.
Just as then when the Prophet Amos condemned such haught arrogance,
people of goodwill comdemn and warn against such a mindest of "inate
specialness"
Bush said. "I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think
that's just the way it is."
Humility is the enemy of Bu$h's character.
--
Oh! Death to Nancy
What is this taht I can see
Cold icy hands taking hold of me
for Death has come, you all can see.
Hell has open it,s gate to trick me.
Oh! Death, Oh! Death, can't you spare
me, over for another year!
I'll stuff your jaws till you can't talk
I'll blind your leg's till you can't walk
I'll tie your hands till you can't make a
stand.
And finally I'll close your eyes so you
can't see
I'll bring sexual death unto you for me.
B.T.K.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
T’ was perfect plan of deviant pleasure so bold on that Spring nite
My inner felling hot with propension of the new awakening season
Warn, wet with inner fear and rapture, my pleasure of entanglement, like
new vines at night
Oh, Anna, Why Didn’t You Appear
Drop of fear fresh Spring rain would roll down from your nakedness to
scent to lofty fever that burns within,
In that small world of longing, fear, rapture, and desparation, the game
we play, fall on devil ears
Fantasy spring forth, mounts, to storm fury, then winter clam at the end.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
Alone, now in another time span I lay with sweet enrapture garments
across most private thought
Bed of Spring moist grass, clean before the sun, enslaved with control,
warm wind scenting the air, sun light sparkle tears in eyes so deep and
clear.
Alone again I trod in pass memory of mirrors, and ponder why for number
eight was not.
Oh, Anna Why Didn’t You Appear
B.T.K.
.
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| User: "John Starrett" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 02:28:10 PM |
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Steven L. wrote:
"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say
that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person,"
Bush said. "I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think
that's just the way it is."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/
[
"I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think that's just
the way it is."
For someone who's supposed to be a "moron," that is a beautifully
constructed statement: He won't say it or act on it--but he wants you
to know that's what he believes all the same.
]
He just said it right there:
"I think that's just the way it is" referring to "you're not equally as
patriotic if you're not a religious person".
You give him way too much credit. Had he come right out and stated in a
single sentence, rather than three, that non-Christians weren't
patriotic, then been confronted with the statement, he would have denied
it in the same way.
No, he is not a moron, technically, but he is not the brilliant
politician you want to make him out to be.
John Starrett
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| User: "Salad" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 06:12:33 PM |
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Steven L. wrote:
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they
see fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban.
Looks like bush is heading us that way.
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| User: "Carl Kaufmann" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 07:22:51 PM |
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Steven L. wrote:
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they
see fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we
have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you
see fit.
"On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from
my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with
the Lord."
Bush has often said that he is a religious man who supports freedom of
religion, but yesterday may be the first time he has so clearly
suggested in his use of words that he harbors the feeling that these two
principles are to some degree in conflict.
You don't use the "other hand" construction for two concepts that
complement each other. And his suggestion that someone is not qualified
to be president unless they are religious is sure to spark some further
discussion.
There's another enigmatic quote from the same interview:
"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say
that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person,"
Bush said. "I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think
that's just the way it is."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/
[
"I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think that's just
the way it is."
For someone who's supposed to be a "moron," that is a beautifully
constructed statement: He won't say it or act on it--but he wants you
to know that's what he believes all the same.
]
I can't wait for the Daly Show writers to get a hold of this. :-)
--
EAC Liar, Damned Liar, and Statistician
alt.atheist #1966
"Statistical thinking will one day be as necessary for efficient
citizenship as the ability to read and write." - H.G. Wells
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| User: "free" |
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| Title: Re: Bush Sez Atheists Can't Be President |
12 Jan 2005 02:26:07 PM |
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Steven L. wrote:
Bush and the Lord
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; 12:47 PM
President Bush told the Washington Times yesterday he doesn't "see how
you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be
protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they
see fit," Bush said.
"That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we
have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you
see fit.
"On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from
my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with
the Lord."
Bush has often said that he is a religious man who supports freedom of
religion, but yesterday may be the first time he has so clearly
suggested in his use of words that he harbors the feeling that these two
principles are to some degree in conflict.
You don't use the "other hand" construction for two concepts that
complement each other. And his suggestion that someone is not qualified
to be president unless they are religious is sure to spark some further
discussion.
There's another enigmatic quote from the same interview:
"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say
that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person,"
Bush said. "I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think
that's just the way it is."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/
[
"I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think that's just
the way it is."
For someone who's supposed to be a "moron," that is a beautifully
constructed statement: He won't say it or act on it--but he wants you
to know that's what he believes all the same.
]
No he doesn't. He wants you to believe he believes it all
the same. Bush is an atheist, how else would an atheist
get to be President but by cloaking themselves even more
in appeals to Christianity so as not to bring scrutiny.
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