|
|
| User: "BernardZ" |
|
| Title: Re: But Muslims did serve in Hitler's SS! |
12 Jun 2006 12:48:51 AM |
|
|
Alex=idiot is full of ***** when he denies it. Muslims did serve in the
Nazi SS. Here are some pictures to prove it.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Muslims+++SS&btnG=Search
--
Self control is what keeps us from being rapist.
Observations of Bernard - No 100
.
|
|
|
| User: "serwad" |
|
| Title: JEWS ARE WAR CRIMINALS |
12 Jun 2006 07:29:50 AM |
|
|
Israelis Fear Spread Of War Crimes Cases
Laws passed in wake of Nuremberg trials now being pressed in Europe against
Israeli generals.
Liel Leibovitz - Staff Writer
On Sept. 10, 2005, Doron Almog, the former commander of the Israel Defense
Forces' Southern Command, was on board an El Al flight to London to raise
money for brain-damaged children. But as the plane landed at Heathrow and
other passengers began to disembark, a flight attendant approached Almog
with a cryptic message.
"The pilot asked that I disembark last," Almog later told Israeli Radio,
repeating the flight attendant's message. "After some time, the chief
steward said that the Israeli military attache was on his way and wanted to
speak to me. I phoned him, and he told me not to get off the plane."
The reason, he soon learned, was an arrest warrant, issued that day by a
senior London magistrate charging Almog, as the army's top commander in the
Gaza Strip, with overseeing the bulldozing of 59 Palestinian homes in the
Rafah refugee camp in January of 2002 - acts that violate the Geneva
Conventions.
Under British law, ordinary citizens are free to file criminal complaints
against individuals suspected of war crimes, even if the accused are not
British citizens and the alleged crimes were not committed on British soil.
The threshold such complaints must meet to justify an arrest warrant are
substantial. But in this case, Senior District Judge Timothy Workman ruled
that the plaintiff - a resident of one the bulldozed homes - had met the
bar.
Almog never got off the plane. He returned to Israel the same day. And with
Almog's departure from his jurisdiction, Workman withdrew his arrest
warrant, as per the requirements of British law.
The problem, however, was far from solved: A few months later, Israel's
military advocate general advised the current Gaza commander, Brig. Gen.
Aviv Kochavi, to decline an official British invitation to spend the summer
at the Royal College of Defense Studies, fearing that he, too, would be
greeted at the airport by police officers.
Neither is the problem confined to Britain. Other European nations, such as
France, Spain, Sweden and Denmark, have similar laws, all guided by the
principle known as universal justice. These statutes allow lawsuits against
alleged perpetrators of war crimes and crimes against humanity to be
prosecuted even if neither the complainant nor the defendant are citizens of
the country in which they are filed, and even if the alleged crime took
place somewhere else.
With cases similar to Almog's already brought against Israeli officials in
Belgium, Israeli diplomats and legal experts fear that the procedures in
England might herald an onslaught of lawsuits against Israeli officers in
courts the world over. Ironically, the laws in question were first put into
place in the wake of the Nuremberg trials of Nazi war criminals to ensure
such crimes could not be perpetrated without prosecution.
Chandra Sriram, professor of human rights at the University of East London
and one of the leading experts in the field, cautioned that universal
justice cases face tough tests.
"The threshold is relatively high," she said. As a practical matter, courts
"are not willing to assert jurisdiction unless they think there is a
reasonable case and a reasonable chance of managing it."
Usually, there must be strong evidence that the individual or individuals in
question were personally responsible for specific gross violations of
international law, such as genocide or torture, explained Sriram. And the
evidence must support clear intent to commit the violations, she said, not
just that they occurred as byproducts of other actions.
Still, on a strictly legal level in Great Britain, a judge technically need
only find that the facts alleged, if proven, would constitute a violation of
international law under the principle of universal justice, said Sriram.
It is hard to know Workman's exact legal reasoning for issuing Almog's
arrest warrant. Alongside the warrant, Workman issued a still-sealed
document explaining his decision.
Kate Maynard, the solicitor who brought the charges against Almog, said the
magistrate stated there was sufficient evidence to open up a case against
Almog, as his responsibility for the house demolitions was in breach of the
Fourth Geneva Convention, a violation criminalized in the UK.
Sriram noted that another common yardstick in such cases was whether the
country whose citizens were being charged had a functioning judicial system
capable of pursuing its own challenges. "You can," she added, "characterize
the Israeli legal system as such."
Yet, Israel's judicial system has been reluctant to address most accusations
concerning the behavior of army officers in the West Bank and Gaza.
According to a 2005 Human Rights Watch report, more than 1,600
Palestinians - including at least 500 children - were killed by Israeli
security forces between Sept. 29, 2000 and Nov. 30, 2004. Thousands more
were seriously injured.
The Israel Defense Forces informed Human Rights Watch that as of May 10,
2004, it had launched criminal investigations of just 74 alleged cases of
unlawful use of lethal force - less than 5 percent of the civilian deaths in
nearly four years of the second intifada.
Maynard, the British solicitor who filed the suit against Almog, stressed it
was the evidence, not the Israeli judicial system's failure to deal with
that case, that most influenced the magistrate's decision to issue an arrest
warrant. Documenting such a failure was not, in any event, a formal
requirement of the British statute in question, she said.
But Maynard added, "In all cases we've put together, we've always sought to
show a chain of impunity in Israel. In all of the cases we've been able to
show that local lawyers have petitioned the courts to try and obtain justice
in Israel, and couldn't."
For all the efforts by some to use the principle of universal justice
against Israeli actions in the occupied territories, Sriram stressed that
the concept remained problematic in legal terms.
"It's murky," she said. "If anyone can assert it anywhere in the world, how
could you resolve competing claims? And how do you establish who has a
legitimate claim?"
As a result of such issues, she said, courts the world over think carefully
before translating principle into action. Courts, she stressed, "are only
going to entertain a case where a case has been made of a clear
international crime. They exercise a pretty significant degree of caution."
Israel Fights Back
Tzipi Livni, Israel's minister of foreign affairs, has denounced the cases
filed against Israel as politically motivated.
"England is turning into an address for lawsuits that do not deal with its
own citizens," she said in a recent statement. "This may undermine its war
on terrorism."
Working behind the scenes, Israeli diplomats are trying to convince other
European countries to amend their legislation. Its negotiators conduct their
talks, for the most part, without publicity.
Belgium is a case in point: In 1993, the country passed an unprecedented law
that allowed citizens to press criminal charges against anyone suspected of
crimes against humanity, with few restrictions. Unlike Britain, for example,
Belgium allowed for arrest warrants to be issued against accused individuals
even if they were outside the country and had never entered into its
jurisdiction.
Using this law, 23 survivors of the 1982 massacre in the Lebanese Sabra and
Shatila refugee camps filed a complaint in 2001 accusing Israel's then-Prime
Minister Ariel Sharon and other Israeli officials, of war crimes and crimes
against humanity. A tense debate ensued, with Israeli and American diplomats
arguing the law's flaws. In 2003, the law was changed, stating that Belgian
courts will only have jurisdiction over international crimes if the accused
or the victim is Belgian or a Belgian resident, or if Belgium is required by
treaty to exercise jurisdiction over the case.
More recently, Livni met last month with British Foreign Office Minister Kim
Howells to discuss the problems British law posed for IDF officers. Howells
acknowledged that the problem burdened both countries, and pledged to try
and resolve the situation rapidly.
But not all countries are revising their laws. Spain's Supreme Court, for
example, last year overturned a 2003 decision that blocked the country from
prosecuting the perpetrators of human rights violations in Guatemala,
affirming the need to bring international criminals to justice, regardless
of their citizenship or where they committed their crimes.
Israeli legal experts agree that the lawsuits are harmful in the long term.
But, in an apparent indication of the issue's sensitivity, no official could
be found in the Foreign Ministry or the army who was willing to comment on
the record.
"While no immediate threat is evident," said an Israeli official who would
speak only on condition of anonymity, "the damage, in the long run,
accumulates. Such lawsuits deeply embarrass us, and they create a false
impression that Israel is a singularly unlawful state."
The irony of this wave of legal challenges, said Israeli officials, is that
they rely on aspects of international law originally devised, in part, as a
response to the Holocaust. During the Nuremberg trials, a concept of
International Jurisdiction began to take shape, according to which states
may claim criminal jurisdiction over persons suspected of crimes against
humanity regardless of the perpetrator's nationality or the location of the
crime itself. One of the most famous international cases invoking this
principle was Israel's prosecution, in 1961, of Nazi criminal Adolf
Eichmann.
The United States does not allow citizens to file such criminal complaints.
But U.S. law does allow for civil suits. A class-action suit was brought
last December in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia by a
group of Lebanese nationals charging Moshe Ya'alon, the Israeli army's
former chief of staff, and Avi Dichter, the former head of the Shin Bet,
with war crimes for their roles in the 1996 bombing of the Lebanese village
Kafar Qana, an incident that caused the death of more than 100 civilians. Ya'alon
is currently serving as a research fellow at the Washington Institute for
Near East Policy.
The plaintiffs sued under the Alien Torts Claims Act of 1789, which grants
jurisdiction to U.S. federal courts over "any civil action by an alien for a
tort only, committed in violation of the law of nations or a treaty of the
United States."
The act has been invoked many times, albeit with scant success, in cases
involving everything from a Holocaust survivor suing the National French
Railroad Company for the deportation of Jews to Nazi death camps to a suit
filed against Texaco for disposing of waste in the Ecuadorian Amazon.
The complaint against Ya'alon, filed on November 4, 2005, accuses the former
head of army intelligence of having "command responsibility" in the 1996
attack.
The case, said Judith Chomsky of the Center for Constitutional Rights, an
organization that helped bring the lawsuit against Ya'alon, stands a good
chance.
"A recent Supreme Court decision has recognized that the statute provides
that an alien can bring a claim if the claim is based on violations of the
law of nations, or customary law, which is universal, obligatory and
specific," she said. "For example, you can't torture people, and no nation
has the right to say, 'I'm staying out of this rule; I'm going to torture
people anyway.'" The complaint, she said, with its meticulous description of
the attack's damage to lives and property, falls within that realm.
Israeli officials declined to comment on the Ya'alon case.
Linki
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "brique" |
|
| Title: Re: But Muslims did serve in Hitler's SS! |
12 Jun 2006 11:51:32 AM |
|
|
BernardZ <DontBother@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ef7ab50e2ba1a89897e8@west.Usenet-News.net...
Alex=idiot is full of ***** when he denies it. Muslims did serve in the
Nazi SS. Here are some pictures to prove it.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Muslims+++SS&btnG=Search
As did americans, irish, english, scots welsh, poles, ukranians, russians,
french, italians, bulgarians, estonians, latvians, finns, danes, norwegians,
czechs, slovaks, serbs, croats, spaniards, and probably a few more.
Which just about covers most varieties of christianity.....
--
Self control is what keeps us from being rapist.
Well, you know yourself best, one supposes.........
Observations of Bernard - No 100
.
|
|
|
| User: "serwad" |
|
| Title: Re: But Muslims did serve in Hitler's SS! |
12 Jun 2006 02:50:22 PM |
|
|
"brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
news:1150131301.68393.0@despina.uk.clara.net...
BernardZ <DontBother@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ef7ab50e2ba1a89897e8@west.Usenet-News.net...
Alex=idiot is full of ***** when he denies it. Muslims did serve in the
Nazi SS. Here are some pictures to prove it.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Muslims+++SS&btnG=Search
As did americans, irish, english, scots welsh, poles, ukranians, russians,
french, italians, bulgarians, estonians, latvians, finns, danes,
norwegians,
czechs, slovaks, serbs, croats, spaniards, and probably a few more.
Which just about covers most varieties of christianity.....
You forgot the Jews!
.
|
|
|
| User: "brique" |
|
| Title: Re: But Muslims did serve in Hitler's SS! |
12 Jun 2006 04:51:47 PM |
|
|
serwad <serwad@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Szjjg.54757$qd2.7677@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
news:1150131301.68393.0@despina.uk.clara.net...
BernardZ <DontBother@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ef7ab50e2ba1a89897e8@west.Usenet-News.net...
Alex=idiot is full of ***** when he denies it. Muslims did serve in the
Nazi SS. Here are some pictures to prove it.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Muslims+++SS&btnG=Search
As did americans, irish, english, scots welsh, poles, ukranians,
russians,
french, italians, bulgarians, estonians, latvians, finns, danes,
norwegians,
czechs, slovaks, serbs, croats, spaniards, and probably a few more.
Which just about covers most varieties of christianity.....
You forgot the Jews!
Are Jews christians?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Emma" |
|
| Title: Re: But Muslims did serve in Hitler's SS! |
12 Jun 2006 06:06:28 PM |
|
|
In article <1150149325.18648.0@demeter.uk.clara.net>, brique says...
BernardZ <DontBother@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ef7ab50e2ba1a89897e8@west.Usenet-News.net...
Alex=idiot is full of ***** when he denies it. Muslims did serve in the
Nazi SS. Here are some pictures to prove it.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Muslims+++SS&btnG=Search
As did americans, irish, english, scots welsh, poles, ukranians,
russians,
french, italians, bulgarians, estonians, latvians, finns, danes,
norwegians,
czechs, slovaks, serbs, croats, spaniards, and probably a few more.
Which just about covers most varieties of christianity.....
I've heard of some of those nationalities in foreign divisions
of the SS, but not all of them.
Was there really an Irish division? English? Scots? Welsh?
--
~*~*~
Emma
http://www.anglicansforisrael.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "brique" |
|
| Title: Re: But Muslims did serve in Hitler's SS! |
12 Jun 2006 11:27:50 PM |
|
|
Emma <emma@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:e6ks1k014bd@drn.newsguy.com...
In article <1150149325.18648.0@demeter.uk.clara.net>, brique says...
BernardZ <DontBother@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ef7ab50e2ba1a89897e8@west.Usenet-News.net...
Alex=idiot is full of ***** when he denies it. Muslims did serve in
the
Nazi SS. Here are some pictures to prove it.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Muslims+++SS&btnG=Search
As did americans, irish, english, scots welsh, poles, ukranians,
russians,
french, italians, bulgarians, estonians, latvians, finns, danes,
norwegians,
czechs, slovaks, serbs, croats, spaniards, and probably a few more.
Which just about covers most varieties of christianity.....
I've heard of some of those nationalities in foreign divisions
of the SS, but not all of them.
Was there really an Irish division? English? Scots? Welsh?
There was a concerted attempt to recruit from POW camps for a unit to serve
in Russia. They were promised, apparrently, that they would never be asked
to fight against British troops. A handful did volunteer but seemingly spent
most of their time drunk.
Quote from publishers blurb for : C. Bishops : "SS HITLER'S FOREIGN
DIVISIONS : Foreign Volunteers in the Waffen SS 1940-1945"
"Despite their non-Germanic background, the Norwegians, Dutch, Danes,
Belgians, Latvians, Estonians, Cossacks, Ukrainians, and other
nationalities-often motivated by an extreme anti-Communist zeal- fought hard
on the Eastern Front for the Nazi cause, even when their position was
hopeless. Often treated badly by their German commanders, the foreign SS
units were not all excellent combat formations, however. some, like the
British and Indian volunteers, were used for propaganda purposes only, while
others, like the notorious Dirlewanger Brigade, who helped brutally suppress
the Warsaw Rising, were nothing more than murderous criminals in uniform.
Other divisions-such as the Russian-recruited 30th Waffen- Grenadier
Division der SS, formed in the final months of the war-never reached a
functional strength, and were disbanded before they saw action.
--
~*~*~
Emma
http://www.anglicansforisrael.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
