California high school class pits evolution against religion



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: ""
Date: 08 Jan 2006 08:31:06 AM
Object: California high school class pits evolution against religion
California high school class pits evolution against religion
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060106-1753-ca-evolutiondebate.html
San Diego Union Tribune - United States
5:53 p.m. January 6, 2006
FRESNO – A rural California high school jumped into the national debate
over teaching an alternative to evolution this week, offering the
religion-based theory of "intelligent design" in a philosophy course.
Less than a month after a federal judge in Pennsylvania ruled against
teaching the theory as science, a divided school board said Frazier
Mountain High School in Lebec could teach the four-week winter session
class after making the curriculum more philosophical and less scientific.
"It's really just a philosophy class," said John Wight, superintendent of
El Tejon Unified School District. "We don't take a position."
But some in the town of 1,285 perched in the Tehachapi mountains dividing
the agricultural Central Valley from Los Angeles, about 75 miles south,
wonder if the "Philosophy of Design" course is a sneaky way to introduce
the theory that livings things are so complex they must have been designed
by a higher being.
The class taught by a minister's wife shocked some school board members
when they learned that three experts on intelligent design were scheduled
to speak while two evolution experts listed as guest speakers were not
coming.
One of the evolution experts disagreed with the class. The other, Nobel
laureate Francis Crick, who co-discovered the double-helix structure of
DNA, died in 2004.
"I had concerns about the credibility of the content, and whether it was
balanced," said board member Kitty Jo Nelson, who was in the minority when
the board voted 3-2 on Sunday in a special session to allow the course. "I
believe in critical thinking, in giving students the opportunity to look at
various options, but I wasn't sure if this was the place to start."
Intelligent design was dealt a significant blow Dec. 20 when U.S. District
Judge John E. Jones III in Pennsylvania said the Dover, Pa., school board
violated the constitutional separation of church and state when the subject
was included in its science curriculum.
Around the country, school officials have been wondering whether to
introduce the theory supported by religious groups without inviting
lawsuits.
In North Dakota, administrators from several districts said students could
not use it as a topic in debate tournaments. The Kansas Board of Education
is reviewing new science standards for its public schools that would
mention the theory.
The California Department of Education wasn't aware of similar courses
being taught in the state, but schools aren't required to notify it about
curriculum, a spokeswoman said.
State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell wasn't familiar
with the class, but has been outspoken against the teaching of intelligent
design as science.
"In a true philosophy class, if it's one of many concepts being discussed,
I have no problem," O'Connell said.
Experts on both sides said the debate is scientific in nature, despite what
the class is called.
"The primary issues are scientific, relating to biology, geology, and so
on," said John Calvert, of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network,
which disseminates material in support of the subject. "As the discussion
occurs, it'll become clear that it needs to move to a science class because
that's where the expertise is."
Intelligent design opponents fear that teaching the subject as philosophy
is a way of introducing it as a scientifically valid point of view on par
with evolution, whether or not it's in an official science class.
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.

User: "ZenIsWhen"

Title: Re: California high school class pits evolution against religion 08 Jan 2006 11:11:20 AM
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:6h82s1pj15nmcq1s2rhr3vlhatrn0gsh4r@4ax.com...


California high school class pits evolution against religion
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060106-1753-ca-evolutiondebate.html
San Diego Union Tribune - United States

5:53 p.m. January 6, 2006

FRESNO - A rural California high school jumped into the national debate
over teaching an alternative to evolution this week, offering the
religion-based theory of "intelligent design" in a philosophy course.

Less than a month after a federal judge in Pennsylvania ruled against
teaching the theory as science, a divided school board said Frazier
Mountain High School in Lebec could teach the four-week winter session
class after making the curriculum more philosophical and less scientific.

"It's really just a philosophy class," said John Wight, superintendent of
El Tejon Unified School District. "We don't take a position."

Including I.D. would make it little more than a "wild speculation" class.


But some in the town of 1,285 perched in the Tehachapi mountains dividing
the agricultural Central Valley from Los Angeles, about 75 miles south,
wonder if the "Philosophy of Design" course is a sneaky way to introduce
the theory that livings things are so complex they must have been designed
by a higher being.

The class taught by a minister's wife shocked some school board members
when they learned that three experts on intelligent design were scheduled
to speak while two evolution experts listed as guest speakers were not
coming.

Since I.D. is nothing more than a religious speculation, there are no such
things as "I.D. experts".
The WHOLE argument is that "things are so complex (complex, itself, being
just an unscientific, opinion word), "goddidit".


One of the evolution experts disagreed with the class. The other, Nobel
laureate Francis Crick, who co-discovered the double-helix structure of
DNA, died in 2004.

"I had concerns about the credibility of the content, and whether it was
balanced," said board member Kitty Jo Nelson, who was in the minority when
the board voted 3-2 on Sunday in a special session to allow the course. "I
believe in critical thinking, in giving students the opportunity to look
at
various options, but I wasn't sure if this was the place to start."

Intelligent design was dealt a significant blow Dec. 20 when U.S. District
Judge John E. Jones III in Pennsylvania said the Dover, Pa., school board
violated the constitutional separation of church and state when the
subject
was included in its science curriculum.

Around the country, school officials have been wondering whether to
introduce the theory supported by religious groups without inviting
lawsuits.

In North Dakota, administrators from several districts said students could
not use it as a topic in debate tournaments. The Kansas Board of Education
is reviewing new science standards for its public schools that would
mention the theory.

The California Department of Education wasn't aware of similar courses
being taught in the state, but schools aren't required to notify it about
curriculum, a spokeswoman said.

State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell wasn't familiar
with the class, but has been outspoken against the teaching of intelligent
design as science.

"In a true philosophy class, if it's one of many concepts being discussed,
I have no problem," O'Connell said.

Experts on both sides said the debate is scientific in nature, despite
what
the class is called.

"The primary issues are scientific, relating to biology, geology, and so
on," said John Calvert, of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network,
which disseminates material in support of the subject. "As the discussion
occurs, it'll become clear that it needs to move to a science class
because
that's where the expertise is."

Intelligent design opponents fear that teaching the subject as philosophy
is a way of introducing it as a scientifically valid point of view on par
with evolution, whether or not it's in an official science class.

**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education

You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why
"a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v.
Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************



.

User: "Bonnie Bitch"

Title: Re: California high school class pits evolution against religion 08 Jan 2006 05:16:57 PM
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 09:31:06 -0500, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of
buckeye-ELO@nospam.net


California high school class pits evolution against religion
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060106-1753-ca-evolutiondebate.html
San Diego Union Tribune - United States

5:53 p.m. January 6, 2006

FRESNO – A rural California high school jumped into the national debate
over teaching an alternative to evolution this week, offering the
religion-based theory of "intelligent design" in a philosophy course.

Less than a month after a federal judge in Pennsylvania ruled against
teaching the theory as science, a divided school board said Frazier
Mountain High School in Lebec could teach the four-week winter session
class after making the curriculum more philosophical and less scientific.

"It's really just a philosophy class," said John Wight, superintendent of
El Tejon Unified School District. "We don't take a position."

But some in the town of 1,285 perched in the Tehachapi mountains dividing
the agricultural Central Valley from Los Angeles, about 75 miles south,
wonder if the "Philosophy of Design" course is a sneaky way to introduce
the theory that livings things are so complex they must have been designed
by a higher being.

The class taught by a minister's wife shocked some school board members
when they learned that three experts on intelligent design were scheduled
to speak while two evolution experts listed as guest speakers were not
coming.

One of the evolution experts disagreed with the class. The other, Nobel
laureate Francis Crick, who co-discovered the double-helix structure of
DNA, died in 2004.

That's kind of amusing, that the christstains invited a dead guy to
come and speak at one of their recruiting seminars. Pathetic, to be
sure, but funny nonetheless.

"I had concerns about the credibility of the content, and whether it was
balanced," said board member Kitty Jo Nelson, who was in the minority when
the board voted 3-2 on Sunday in a special session to allow the course. "I
believe in critical thinking, in giving students the opportunity to look at
various options, but I wasn't sure if this was the place to start."

Intelligent design was dealt a significant blow Dec. 20 when U.S. District
Judge John E. Jones III in Pennsylvania said the Dover, Pa., school board
violated the constitutional separation of church and state when the subject
was included in its science curriculum.

Around the country, school officials have been wondering whether to
introduce the theory supported by religious groups without inviting
lawsuits.

In North Dakota, administrators from several districts said students could
not use it as a topic in debate tournaments. The Kansas Board of Education
is reviewing new science standards for its public schools that would
mention the theory.

The California Department of Education wasn't aware of similar courses
being taught in the state, but schools aren't required to notify it about
curriculum, a spokeswoman said.

State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell wasn't familiar
with the class, but has been outspoken against the teaching of intelligent
design as science.

"In a true philosophy class, if it's one of many concepts being discussed,
I have no problem," O'Connell said.

Experts on both sides said the debate is scientific in nature, despite what
the class is called.

"The primary issues are scientific, relating to biology, geology, and so
on," said John Calvert, of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network,
which disseminates material in support of the subject. "As the discussion
occurs, it'll become clear that it needs to move to a science class because
that's where the expertise is."

Intelligent design opponents fear that teaching the subject as philosophy
is a way of introducing it as a scientifically valid point of view on par
with evolution, whether or not it's in an official science class.

**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education

You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************


.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: California high school class pits evolution against religion 08 Jan 2006 05:54:00 PM


California high school class pits evolution against religion
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060106-1753-ca-evolutiondebate.html
San Diego Union Tribune - United States

<snip>


"It's really just a philosophy class," said John Wight,
superintendent of El Tejon Unified School District. "We don't take a
position."

<snip>

That's kind of amusing, that the christstains invited a dead guy to
come and speak at one of their recruiting seminars. Pathetic, to be
sure, but funny nonetheless.


Right. They don't take sides, but say it will be moved to the science
department and they didn't know the guy was dead.
I do believe they might not have read "It is ironic that several of these
individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions
in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the
real purpose behind the ID Policy. " from the Dover decision.
.
User: "Bonnie Bitch"

Title: Re: California high school class pits evolution against religion 09 Jan 2006 06:44:11 AM
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 23:54:00 GMT, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Mike
Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net>


California high school class pits evolution against religion
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060106-1753-ca-evolutiondebate.html
San Diego Union Tribune - United States

<snip>


"It's really just a philosophy class," said John Wight,
superintendent of El Tejon Unified School District. "We don't take a
position."

<snip>

That's kind of amusing, that the christstains invited a dead guy to
come and speak at one of their recruiting seminars. Pathetic, to be
sure, but funny nonetheless.


Right. They don't take sides, but say it will be moved to the science
department and they didn't know the guy was dead.

Well, he only died 11 years ago. <eye roll>

I do believe they might not have read "It is ironic that several of these
individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions
in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the
real purpose behind the ID Policy. " from the Dover decision.

Did you read the whole decision in Kitzmiller v. Dover SDA?
I highly recommend it. It only takes about 45 minutes, and it is worth
it. Judge John Jones III skewered the lying christstains and handed
their asses back to them on a paper plate.
http://www.sciohost.org/ncse/kvd/kitzmiller_decision_20051220.pdf
.




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