| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Atheist # 1!" |
| Date: |
08 Sep 2005 02:32:48 PM |
| Object: |
Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
.
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 03:27:34 PM |
|
|
"Atheist # 1!" <clubzone@sify.com> wrote in message
news:1126189968.446541.50270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
Sorry, but you'll just have to hepl yourself :P
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "kathryn" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 06:46:08 PM |
|
|
"Atheist # 1!" <clubzone@sify.com> wrote in message
news:1126189968.446541.50270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
the ability to spell
.
|
|
|
| User: "Misleart Chuff" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 07:46:26 PM |
|
|
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dfq0tg$mgg$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
:
: "Atheist # 1!" <clubzone@sify.com> wrote in message
: news:1126189968.446541.50270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
: >O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
: > No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
: > Are you a real ATHEIST ?
: > Won't you like to hepl me ??
:
:
: the ability to spell
Don't forget proper grammar, while you're at it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "kathryn" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
09 Sep 2005 06:20:53 AM |
|
|
"Misleart Chuff" <misleart@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:my0Ue.786$au2.27@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dfq0tg$mgg$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
:
: "Atheist # 1!" <clubzone@sify.com> wrote in message
: news:1126189968.446541.50270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
: >O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
: > No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
: > Are you a real ATHEIST ?
: > Won't you like to hepl me ??
:
:
: the ability to spell
Don't forget proper grammar, while you're at it.
Ah well grammar is another thing entirely. Unless of course it's so poor
that no one can make any sense of what you post.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "WCB" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 08:15:22 PM |
|
|
Atheist # 1! wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
First of all, to be an atheist takes a brain.
You don't make the cut, ***** monkey.
Part 1
IS THERE A GOD?
Strong Atheism's answer.
A BASIC DEFINITION OF GOD.
The general overarching definition of god as per
the major religions of the world is:
A. God is personal, God has will and conciousness.
B. God has free will.
C. God is the creator of all.
D. God is omnipotent.
E. God is omnibenevolent.
F. God is omniscient.
G. God is that which nothing more powerful
can be imagined.
These are the basic attributes that can be claimed for
the god of orthodox Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and
Hinduism.
Omnibenevolence and omniscience are actually logically
derivable from the claimed attribute of omnipotence and
so aren't not truely independent attributes, and may be
considered special aspects of omnipotence.
There are other attributes of god, that he is the only
such god, that he is is immortal and that god has always
existed that are not important for this discussion and for
now, can be ignored. They are secondary arguments and in
no way are foundational or truely necessary, except those
that can be logically derived from the attributes listed
above.
A CLASS OF GODS
It is important to note here that this is a definition
not for a particular god, but an entire class of gods.
Sub-theories about god are not important here. Christianity
claims one may attain salvation only through Jesus, Islam
claims the Christian dogma that Jesus was the son of god is
blasphemous. Ideas like this though, are of little importance
to the overarching and general claims made for a personal,
creator, omni-everything god. I have coined a term,
The Grand God of Grand Theologies for this sort of god.
Grand theologies are those theologies that have adopted this
class of god as their basic attributes concerning the nature
of god. But it is important to remember here that what is
being discussed here is a class of gods, not particular gods.
THE FOUR GREAT THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS
Again, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism hold
to this basic Grand God and are typical Grand Theologies
holding to this basic class of god as their basic
definitions of what god is at god's most basic level.
A big problem with this class of gods is, it collapses
rather easily into internal self contradiction.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
The problem of evil was first written down by Epicurus
in about the third century BCE.
Today's formulation is:
A. God is defined as omnipotent;
B. and as omnibenevolent.
C. Evil exists.
D. God therefore, is not omnipotent as claimed.
E. Or God is not omnibenevolent as claimed.
F. Or god is neither omnipotent or omnibenevolent.
G. Or god is not existant.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE
The free will defense of the problem of evil goes back
to St. Augustine who popularized it. It is still popular,
and is championed most notably today by Alvin Plantinga.
God gave man free will. Man freely chooses to do evil.
Ability to do evil is less evil than lacking free will.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE DEBUNKED.
God has free will.
God is omnibenevolent, he has a good nature incapable
of doing evil.
A. If god can have free will, and a good nature, this good
nature is not allowed to cound againts god's free will.
B. Nor is god's lack of ability to do evil
allowed to count against god's omnipotence.
C. Likewise, man could easily have a god like
free will and a god like good nature.
D. Inabilty then to do evil would no more count against
man's free will than it does for god's free will.
E. If so, it also counts against god's free will and god
does not have free will as claimed.
F. If god does not have absolute and total free will, thus
free will is not a true necessity at all.
F. If god is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, and can give
man a god like free will and a god like good nature
incapable of moral evil, god must do so or god is not
moral, not omnibenevolent.
G. Evil exists because he allows it to.
So free will does not exist, or it does and we can have
a god like free will and a god like good nature.
Either way, free will cannot explain away the existance
of evil. This free will defense then, is a failed argument.
OMNISCIENCE VERSUS CREATORHOOD OF GOD
God is defined as creator of all in most religions.
And god is claimed to be omniscient, all knowing.
A. God created the Universe and all in it.
B. God is omniscient, all knowing, he knows all in
the Universe and he knows the future of the Universe
and its contents.
C. If god creates a Universe, he will know that in 13 billion
years this Universe will have a man named John Smith in it.
D. If John Smith is good and saved, or evil and damned, God
will know that.
E. As he knows that the Universe in its present state will
have a John Smith, god may then contemplate the future state
of Smith and decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
F. If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a specific personal
and will choice made solely by god.
G. If Smith is evil, then evil exists solely because of a choice
made by god. In fact all moral evil done by creations of god
will be evil and do evil only because of personal and willful
creations of god allowing evil acts to be done, by direct
decision of god.
H. If evil exists in a world with an omniscient creator god, it is
solely and only because god allows evil.
I. If evil exists solely because of personal choices of god, god
then is not as defined, omnibenevolent.
J. Man and any other sentient being in such a Universe cannot have
any free will, not even in principle. A Universe with a god
that creates all and knows all precludes free will for all
beings god creates in the strongest possible manner.
The Grand God of Grand
Theology is thus self destroying, it is incoherent
and contradictory as a theory.
THE SITUATION SO FAR.
1. A minimalistic class of gods is defined, this Grand God,
has been defined here with as few terms as possible.
2. The problem of evil dooms such a claimed god.
3. The attempted defence, free will is fatally flawed.
God's good nature and free will doom claims free
will makes evil necessary for man to have free will.
4. Omniscience and creatorhood of god further doom claims of
god's omnibenevolence and man's free will Free will cannot
exist for man. All evil is the direct and knowing creation
of god contradicting claims of omnibenevolence.
5. Since Free will for man is totally impossible, free will
cannot be a good quality, much less neccesary.
Here, the Grand God of Grand Theology has collapsed. As has Grand
Theology. As pointed out, this destroys the claims and viability
of an entire class of possible gods, all secondary and tertiary
claims for such a god of this class also fail, as do dogmas or
secondary claims.
If a these Grand Gods cannot exist as defined, specific gods
cannot, nor can claims such as this or that Grand God sent this
or that relevation to man or some prophet.
***********
--
"Today the official spokesman for the Foxes
agreed an investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed."
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "James" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 05:54:19 PM |
|
|
Atheist # 1! wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
I'd like to hepl you get cancer.
--
James B
aa #944
"A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence."
-David Hume
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 02:36:55 PM |
|
|
Atheist # 1! wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
LMAO! Hey, ATTENTION ATHEISTS: Another demented
kornholer seeks membership!
--
Cliff
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 02:52:03 PM |
|
|
On 8 Sep 2005 07:36:55 -0700, wrote:
Atheist # 1! wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
LMAO! Hey, ATTENTION ATHEISTS: Another demented
kornholer seeks membership!
Has he passed the teetertotter test?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 06:30:51 PM |
|
|
In article <432a4fb0.59607390@news-west.newscene.com>, Kate
said...
LMAO! Hey, ATTENTION ATHEISTS: Another demented
kornholer seeks membership!
Has he passed the teetertotter test?
Nope. He tried to fill it with gasoline, but he couldn't find
the tank.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "chibiabos" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
09 Sep 2005 01:07:31 PM |
|
|
In article <1126189968.446541.50270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Atheist # 1! <clubzone@sify.com> wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
We've already got a #1 atheist.
You'd be something like #2308, but only if you contact #1.
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 10:05:40 PM |
|
|
On 8 Sep 2005 07:32:48 -0700, "Atheist # 1!" <clubzone@sify.com>
wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
No.
<plonk>
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 10:06:58 PM |
|
|
In article <5dd1i1p7fs5omf75gumlibdktb1j701fqh@4ax.com> raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> writes:
On 8 Sep 2005 07:32:48 -0700, "Atheist # 1!" <clubzone@sify.com>
wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
No.
<plonk>
You think he's beyond all hepl?
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
08 Sep 2005 11:26:50 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:06:58 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <5dd1i1p7fs5omf75gumlibdktb1j701fqh@4ax.com> raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> writes:
On 8 Sep 2005 07:32:48 -0700, "Atheist # 1!" <clubzone@sify.com>
wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
No.
<plonk>
You think he's beyond all hepl?
No, he's just trollign.
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
.
|
|
|
| User: "AngryJohn" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
10 Sep 2005 02:44:58 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 19:26:50 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:06:58 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <5dd1i1p7fs5omf75gumlibdktb1j701fqh@4ax.com> raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> writes:
On 8 Sep 2005 07:32:48 -0700, "Atheist # 1!" <clubzone@sify.com>
wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be ..........
Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
No.
<plonk>
You think he's beyond all hepl?
No, he's just trollign.
Trollign with a good bate is the best way to catch hepls.
------------------------------
aa#2106
Remove Belief to reply
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Someone Tell Me What Does It Take Be A Real ATHEIST? |
09 Sep 2005 12:06:15 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:32:48 -0700, Atheist # 1! wrote:
O yes ! I'm the ATHEIST #1!
No way... I'm just trying to be .......... Are you a real ATHEIST ?
Won't you like to hepl me ??
It's very Zen. You can't get it by trying...
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
