CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "loose cannon"
Date: 13 Jun 2005 09:19:55 AM
Object: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5669
CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS
by Pat Buchanan
Leave it to The New York Times. On the eve of Pentecost, the birthday
of the church, this Catholic-baiting newspaper opened its op-ed page to
a venomous anti-Catholic rant by Arthur Hertzberg, "a visiting
professor of the humanities" at New York University.
Hertzberg slandered no fewer than three popes. Not only did the church
of Pius XII remain "silent while Europe's Jews were murdered," he
alleges, the church of John Paul II taught Catholics that the "sin of
letting the Holocaust happen at its doorstep need not haunt the church
...."
As for Benedict XVI, formerly Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, he is guilty
of a mortal sin of omission.
"What Cardinal Ratzinger did not do ... was to question the orthodox
Catholic position that though individual Catholics can err morally, the
church and pope cannot. Until the Vatican reconsiders that outlook, one
of the Holocaust's greatest wounds will continue to fester -- namely,
that the major European institution that stood for morality looked away
from genocide."
Reading this, I exploded -- in laughter, trying to imagine Professor
Hertzberg instructing Cardinal Ratzinger that he must renounce the
dogma of papal infallibility. Yet, this is no jesting matter.
For Hertzberg and the Times are perpetuating a blood libel that is
Hitlerite in dimension. Just as Hitler blamed Bolshevism on the Jewish
people by constantly denouncing "Judeo-Bolshevism," because some Jews
had collaborated in the monstrous crimes of Lenin and Stalin, so
Hertzberg damns the church because some Catholics participated in the
crimes of Hitler.
Beyond a vile slander, this is a moral outrage. For Hertzberg seeks to
lay the crimes of a Nazi regime at the door of a church and pope who
spoke out with greater moral clarity and did more to save the Jews of
Europe than any other institution.
In a brilliant new anthology, "The Pius War," every lie about the
church and libel against Pius XII is addressed. Ronald J. Rychlak,
Rabbi David Dallin and others scatter the jackal pack with the sword of
truth. Here is but a fraction of what they discovered:
-- Of the 44 speeches Cardinal Pacelli, the future Pius XII, gave as
papal nuncio in Germany from 1917 to 1929, 40 condemned some aspect of
Nazi ideology.
-- In March 1935, as Vatican secretary of state, Pacelli wrote an open
letter to the bishop of Cologne calling the Nazis "false prophets with
the pride of Lucifer."
-- Though slandered as "Hitler's Pope" today, in the German press of
the 1930s, Pacelli was called the "Jew-loving" cardinal because of 55
protests he sent to Germany as Vatican secretary of state.
-- In 1939 and 1940, Pius XII acted as the secret intermediary between
the German plotters against Hitler and the British.
-- In 1940, the Pope granted an audience to Joachim von Ribbentrop, who
chastised him for siding with the Allies -- at which Pius XII began to
read to Hitler's foreign minister a list of Nazi atrocities. Wrote a
newspaper of record: "In the burning words he spoke to Herr Ribbentrop,
(Pius) came to the defense of Jews in Germany and Poland." That
newspaper was The New York Times.
-- After hearing the Pope's Christmas address of 1941, the Times wrote:
"The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness
enveloping Europe this Christmas. ... In calling for a 'real new order'
based on 'liberty, justice and love' ... the pope put himself squarely
against Hitlerism."
-- In October 1944, after the liberation of Rome, The New York Times
wrote, "Under the Pope's direction, the Holy See did an exemplary job
of sheltering and championing the victims of the Nazi-Fascist regime."
Pius XII's sterling record stands for all time. All that has changed is
the moral character and commitment to truth of The New York Times.
Consider:
-- In 1943, Chaim Weizmann, later the first president of Israel, wrote,
"The Holy See is lending its powerful help wherever it can, to mitigate
the fate of my persecuted co-religionists."
-- In 1944, Rabbi Isaac Herzog, chief rabbi of Israel, declared, "The
people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness ... (is) doing for
our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our
history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world."
At war's end, Moshe Sharett, who would become the second prime minister
of Israel, met with Pius XII and "told him that my first duty was to
thank him and through him the Catholic Church on behalf of the Jewish
public for all they have done in the various countries to rescue the
Jews."
On Pius' death in 1958, he was eulogized by Golda Meir.
Is it likely Jewish leaders of the war generation would dissemble about
a matter like Hitler's pogrom? No. They spoke the truth -- and
Hertzberg's falsehoods are exceeded in baseness only by his
ingratitude.
Pope Benedict XVI should proceed with the canonization of Pius XII, and
terminate "dialogues" with men who look on dialogue only as a
methodology of moral shakedown.
.

User: "Sanders Kaufman"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 04:25:13 PM
"loose cannon" <looseaint@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1118672395.212314.268860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5669
CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS
by Pat Buchanan

Leave it to The New York Times. On the eve of Pentecost, the birthday
of the church, this Catholic-baiting newspaper opened its op-ed page to
a venomous anti-Catholic rant by Arthur Hertzberg, "a visiting
professor of the humanities" at New York University.

I notice he didn't use the words "untrutful" or "false".
He's not mad about the *accuracy* of the guy's opinion.
He's mad about the timing.
That's what comes from decades of Catholics absolving themselves of so much
horror.
Maybe, someday, when they stop raping kids and harboring those who do, they
won't have to read so much about it.
.

User: "Bill"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 10:44:03 AM
I see you can't stand it if someone disagrees with you.
Arthur Hertzberg is merely telling the truth instead of participating in
church
propaganda.
There is no evidence for the fairly recent concept and claims that Popes are
infallible.
"loose cannon" <looseaint@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1118672395.212314.268860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5669

CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS
by Pat Buchanan


Leave it to The New York Times. On the eve of Pentecost, the birthday
of the church, this Catholic-baiting newspaper opened its op-ed page to
a venomous anti-Catholic rant by Arthur Hertzberg, "a visiting
professor of the humanities" at New York University.

Hertzberg slandered no fewer than three popes. Not only did the church
of Pius XII remain "silent while Europe's Jews were murdered," he
alleges, the church of John Paul II taught Catholics that the "sin of
letting the Holocaust happen at its doorstep need not haunt the church
..."

As for Benedict XVI, formerly Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, he is guilty
of a mortal sin of omission.

"What Cardinal Ratzinger did not do ... was to question the orthodox
Catholic position that though individual Catholics can err morally, the
church and pope cannot. Until the Vatican reconsiders that outlook, one
of the Holocaust's greatest wounds will continue to fester -- namely,
that the major European institution that stood for morality looked away
from genocide."

Reading this, I exploded -- in laughter, trying to imagine Professor
Hertzberg instructing Cardinal Ratzinger that he must renounce the
dogma of papal infallibility. Yet, this is no jesting matter.

For Hertzberg and the Times are perpetuating a blood libel that is
Hitlerite in dimension. Just as Hitler blamed Bolshevism on the Jewish
people by constantly denouncing "Judeo-Bolshevism," because some Jews
had collaborated in the monstrous crimes of Lenin and Stalin, so
Hertzberg damns the church because some Catholics participated in the
crimes of Hitler.

Beyond a vile slander, this is a moral outrage. For Hertzberg seeks to
lay the crimes of a Nazi regime at the door of a church and pope who
spoke out with greater moral clarity and did more to save the Jews of
Europe than any other institution.

In a brilliant new anthology, "The Pius War," every lie about the
church and libel against Pius XII is addressed. Ronald J. Rychlak,
Rabbi David Dallin and others scatter the jackal pack with the sword of
truth. Here is but a fraction of what they discovered:

-- Of the 44 speeches Cardinal Pacelli, the future Pius XII, gave as
papal nuncio in Germany from 1917 to 1929, 40 condemned some aspect of
Nazi ideology.

-- In March 1935, as Vatican secretary of state, Pacelli wrote an open
letter to the bishop of Cologne calling the Nazis "false prophets with
the pride of Lucifer."

-- Though slandered as "Hitler's Pope" today, in the German press of
the 1930s, Pacelli was called the "Jew-loving" cardinal because of 55
protests he sent to Germany as Vatican secretary of state.

-- In 1939 and 1940, Pius XII acted as the secret intermediary between
the German plotters against Hitler and the British.

-- In 1940, the Pope granted an audience to Joachim von Ribbentrop, who
chastised him for siding with the Allies -- at which Pius XII began to
read to Hitler's foreign minister a list of Nazi atrocities. Wrote a
newspaper of record: "In the burning words he spoke to Herr Ribbentrop,
(Pius) came to the defense of Jews in Germany and Poland." That
newspaper was The New York Times.

-- After hearing the Pope's Christmas address of 1941, the Times wrote:
"The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness
enveloping Europe this Christmas. ... In calling for a 'real new order'
based on 'liberty, justice and love' ... the pope put himself squarely
against Hitlerism."

-- In October 1944, after the liberation of Rome, The New York Times
wrote, "Under the Pope's direction, the Holy See did an exemplary job
of sheltering and championing the victims of the Nazi-Fascist regime."

Pius XII's sterling record stands for all time. All that has changed is
the moral character and commitment to truth of The New York Times.
Consider:

-- In 1943, Chaim Weizmann, later the first president of Israel, wrote,
"The Holy See is lending its powerful help wherever it can, to mitigate
the fate of my persecuted co-religionists."

-- In 1944, Rabbi Isaac Herzog, chief rabbi of Israel, declared, "The
people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness ... (is) doing for
our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our
history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world."

At war's end, Moshe Sharett, who would become the second prime minister
of Israel, met with Pius XII and "told him that my first duty was to
thank him and through him the Catholic Church on behalf of the Jewish
public for all they have done in the various countries to rescue the
Jews."

On Pius' death in 1958, he was eulogized by Golda Meir.

Is it likely Jewish leaders of the war generation would dissemble about
a matter like Hitler's pogrom? No. They spoke the truth -- and
Hertzberg's falsehoods are exceeded in baseness only by his
ingratitude.

Pope Benedict XVI should proceed with the canonization of Pius XII, and
terminate "dialogues" with men who look on dialogue only as a
methodology of moral shakedown.

.
User: "bam"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 01:44:01 PM
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:ZNhre.118600$J25.113935@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

I see you can't stand it if someone disagrees with you.

Arthur Hertzberg is merely telling the truth instead of participating in
church
propaganda.

There is no evidence for the fairly recent concept and claims that Popes
are
infallible.

Jackass # 1
BAM
.

User: "David"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 08:13:39 PM
Bill wrote:

I see you can't stand it if someone disagrees with you.

Arthur Hertzberg is merely telling the truth instead of participating in
church
propaganda.

That is fascinating Bill, considering what Albert Einstein said.
"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on
liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but
today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the
courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."
So are you calling Albert Einstein a liar Bill? Care to say that to
his face?

There is no evidence for the fairly recent concept and claims that Popes are
infallible.

?? What does that have to do with whether Popes support Nazis?
Infallible when it comes to Popes is a very narrow claim. It has
nothing to do with their own guilt or innocence.
.
User: "Dave Lister"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 08:33:56 PM
"David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:1118711619.067157.297300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

That is fascinating Bill, considering what Albert Einstein said.

"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on
liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but
today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had
the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."

So are you calling Albert Einstein a liar Bill? Care to say that to
his face?

Why is it that loons like you think Einstein had anything interesting to
say outside of physics?
--
Republican Health Plan: Don't Get Sick
Guantanamo: The Gulag of Our Time
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 09:27:10 PM
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 01:33:56 GMT, Dave Lister
<retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote:

"David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:1118711619.067157.297300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

That is fascinating Bill, considering what Albert Einstein said.

"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on
liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but
today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had
the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."

So are you calling Albert Einstein a liar Bill? Care to say that to
his face?


Why is it that loons like you think Einstein had anything interesting to
say outside of physics?

He had a lot to say about peace.
However the above quote does not sound like something he might have
said.
.
User: "Katt"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 10:14:37 PM
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:


However the above quote does not sound like something he might have
said.

I'm a little uneasy about it as well. The quote is all over the web -- but
the only place I can see a source identified is in
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.religion.christian/browse_frm/thread/6779194830962fbd/630d6f9918c689d1?q=%22feel+a+great+admiration+for+the+Church,+which+alone+has+had+the+courage%22&rnum=1&hl=en#630d6f9918c689d1
where we see it apparently copied from Pinchas E. Lapide, "Three Popes and
the Jews" (1967):
" Albert Einstein must have had some of these appeals in mind
when, late in 1940, he said: "Only the Catholic Church
protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till
then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel
a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the
courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."
So it looks like someone will have to dig the book out and see if a
believable footnote explains where it's supposed to come from...!
Katt.

.



User: "Sanders Kaufman"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 10:17:48 PM
"David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1118711619.067157.297300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Bill wrote:
That is fascinating Bill, considering what Albert Einstein said.

"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on
liberty. "

Of course, what he didn't know then, but we've all learned since - the
Catholic Church in Naziland was in on the Holocaust.
THANK GOD Pope John got there and apologized, admitting the church's
complicity.

So are you calling Albert Einstein a liar Bill?

Are you calling the POPE a liar, David?
Funny way to defend The Church.
.

User: "Richo"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 10:20:46 PM
David wrote:

Bill wrote:

I see you can't stand it if someone disagrees with you.

Arthur Hertzberg is merely telling the truth instead of participating in
church
propaganda.


That is fascinating Bill, considering what Albert Einstein said.

"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on
liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but
today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the
courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."

What is the source for this quote?
It doesnt sound like something Albert would say.

So are you calling Albert Einstein a liar Bill?

Lets find out if you are telling the truth first before we even have to
consider that.
Mark.
.

User: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 11:34:58 PM
If the quote is true -- It is not FACT, it was one man's opinion, and
shows he was not such a genius after-all.
"David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1118711619.067157.297300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
:
: Bill wrote:
: > I see you can't stand it if someone disagrees with you.
: >
: > Arthur Hertzberg is merely telling the truth instead of
participating in
: > church
: > propaganda.
: >
:
: That is fascinating Bill, considering what Albert Einstein said.
:
: "Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on
: liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but
: today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had
the
: courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."
:
: So are you calling Albert Einstein a liar Bill? Care to say that to
: his face?
:
: > There is no evidence for the fairly recent concept and claims that
Popes are
: > infallible.
: >
:
: ?? What does that have to do with whether Popes support Nazis?
: Infallible when it comes to Popes is a very narrow claim. It has
: nothing to do with their own guilt or innocence.
:
.
User: ""

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 11:58:13 PM
Genius does not imply perfect. Einstien failed at
relationships and marriage, but he still was a
genius.
Larry
.
User: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 14 Jun 2005 12:45:29 AM
And I was not being serious.
<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in message
news:1118725093.600064.254990@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: Genius does not imply perfect. Einstien failed at
: relationships and marriage, but he still was a
: genius.
:
: Larry
:
.





User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 11:31:58 AM
On 13 Jun 2005 07:19:55 -0700, "loose cannon" <looseaint@aol.com>
wrote:

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5669

CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS
by Pat Buchanan


Leave it to The New York Times. On the eve of Pentecost, the birthday
of the church, this Catholic-baiting newspaper opened its op-ed page to
a venomous anti-Catholic rant by Arthur Hertzberg, "a visiting
professor of the humanities" at New York University.

Is it worth reading any more of this after the opening paranoid lie?
Oh. It's Pat Buchanan. That explains it.
.
User: "bam"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 01:44:20 PM
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote

Is it worth reading any more of this after the opening paranoid lie?

Oh. It's Pat Buchanan. That explains it.

Jackass #2
BAM
.
User: "Mickey"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 02:51:59 PM
bam wrote:

"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote

Is it worth reading any more of this after the opening paranoid lie?

Oh. It's Pat Buchanan. That explains it.


Jackass #2

Jackass Prime
.



User: ""

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 14 Jun 2005 12:46:58 AM
This is the same Buchanan who smeared W. Mark Felt,
saying that exposing the presidents illegal activities was
illegal. The truth is that there was no national security at
risk, only Nixons. The only thing Nixon had to fear was
the truth and it brought him down. If P. Buchanan can
spin W. Felt as a bad man, then reasonable men will
not take him seriously.
Larrt
.
User: "Sanders Kaufman"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 14 Jun 2005 12:51:52 AM
<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in message
news:1118728018.246826.89340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

This is the same Buchanan who smeared W. Mark Felt,
saying that exposing the presidents illegal activities was
illegal.

Yeah - the one that quit the Republican party to run for President as an
independent.
He said the Republicans were turning their backs on "The Right".
.


User: "Paul Duca"

Title: Re: CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS 13 Jun 2005 08:48:22 PM
in article 1118672395.212314.268860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, loose
cannon at
wrote on 6/13/05 10:19 AM:

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5669

CATHOLIC-BASHERS AND PIUS' DEFENDERS
by Pat Buchanan

Oh, yeah...Pat the happy Catholic attending church every Sunday,
then coming home to the dinner prepared by the family maid--the darkie who
slept in a curtained off area of the family's basement rumpus room.
Paul
.


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