Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans



 Religions > Atheism > Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans

LINK TO THIS PAGE  


rating :  0   |  0


  Page 1 of 6

1

 

2

 

3

 

4

 

5

 

6

 
Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Energoumenos"
Date: 05 Nov 2006 09:36:27 AM
Object: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html
Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans
=B7 Police arrest youth on suspicion of harassment
=B7 Priest distances church from intimidation
Thair Shaikh
Saturday November 4, 2006
The Guardian
In scenes reminiscent of medieval witchhunts, Catholic pilgrims in
Glastonbury have attacked pagans and threatened to "cleanse" them from
the town.
Local pagans were pelted with salt and branded witches who "would burn
in hell" during a procession organised by Youth 2000, a conservative
Catholic lay group. The Magick Box, a pagan shop on the route of the
march, was also singled out and attacked.
Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.
"It was as if we had returned to the dark ages. This is hugely damaging
to Glastonbury ... it is hard enough to trade in Glastonbury as it is,
if you were to take away the pagan element it would be a dead town."
The Somerset town is known for having a large population of resident
and visiting pagans.
The archdruid of Glastonbury, Dreow Bennett, said: "To call the
behaviour of some of their members medieval would be an understatement.
I personally witnessed the owner of of the Magick Box being confronted
by one of their associates and being referred to as a bloody ***** and
being told 'you will burn in hell'."
Father Kevin Knox-Lecky of St Mary's church said that after meeting
representatives of the pagan community he had decided not to invite
Youth 2000 to the town again.
He said: "A family appeared who we don't know, who were very
destructive not only in the town and to the pagan community, but were
also swearing at our parishioners as well."
He said the majority of Catholics taking part in the procession had
been well-behaved and respectful of the pagans.
The retreat was organised last week to mark the 467th anniversary of
the beheading of the last abbot of Glastonbury Abbey, Richard Whiting,
and fellow martyrs.
Youth 2000 describes itself as "an independent, international
initiative that helps young adults aged 16-35 plug back into God at the
heart of the Roman Catholic Church".
It was set up 10 years ago by a disenchanted Catholic barrister who
wanted a return to the traditional teachings of the church for young
people.
Charlie Conner, the managing director of Youth 2000, said: "There were
several incidents that happened that same weekend that were linked to
people who had come to Glastonbury for the retreat. This was in direct
contravention of the general spirit of Youth 2000 and its express
instructions. The young man who was fined was not in fact registered on
the retreat, although he did attempt to attend it.
"Youth 2000 does not condone or encourage this kind of behaviour from
anyone. We fully agree that differences on matters of faith cannot and
should not be resolved by any kind of harassment."
A spokesman for Avon and Somerset police confirmed a youth had been
arrested at Magick Box on suspicion of causing harassment, alarm or
distress.
Two women were also given cautions and warned about their future
conduct.
.

User: "Geoff"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans 05 Nov 2006 10:26:09 AM
"Energoumenos" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1162740986.954688.215120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html

Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.

She turned me into a newt!
.
User: "Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans 06 Nov 2006 07:27:01 PM
"Geoff" <geoff@nospam.com> wrote in
news:gu2dnaYj9YACjdPYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com:

"Energoumenos" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1162740986.954688.215120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html

Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.


She turned me into a newt!


That was drinking too much mead that did that!
Klamon.
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans 07 Nov 2006 11:47:10 AM
"Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns987492FF4CD46Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...

"Geoff" <geoff@nospam.com> wrote in
news:gu2dnaYj9YACjdPYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com:

"Energoumenos" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1162740986.954688.215120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html

Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.


She turned me into a newt!



That was drinking too much mead that did that!

Thank goodness, I get tired of being accused ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans 12 Nov 2006 11:12:08 AM
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:47:10 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism


"Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns987492FF4CD46Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...

"Geoff" <geoff@nospam.com> wrote in
news:gu2dnaYj9YACjdPYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com:

"Energoumenos" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1162740986.954688.215120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html

Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.


She turned me into a newt!



That was drinking too much mead that did that!



Thank goodness, I get tired of being accused ;)

The accused has retired for the evening. :)
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans 12 Nov 2006 07:01:23 PM
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 09:12:08 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <adlel2hukrq0b16dtiepni8ksabvu6st6v@4ax.com>

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:47:10 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism


"Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns987492FF4CD46Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...

"Geoff" <geoff@nospam.com> wrote in
news:gu2dnaYj9YACjdPYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com:

"Energoumenos" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1162740986.954688.215120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html

Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.


She turned me into a newt!



That was drinking too much mead that did that!



Thank goodness, I get tired of being accused ;)


The accused has retired for the evening. :)

Case dismissed.
--
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans 13 Nov 2006 05:46:06 PM
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:31:23 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 09:12:08 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <adlel2hukrq0b16dtiepni8ksabvu6st6v@4ax.com>

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:47:10 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism


"Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns987492FF4CD46Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...

"Geoff" <geoff@nospam.com> wrote in
news:gu2dnaYj9YACjdPYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com:

"Energoumenos" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1162740986.954688.215120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html

Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.


She turned me into a newt!



That was drinking too much mead that did that!



Thank goodness, I get tired of being accused ;)


The accused has retired for the evening. :)


Case dismissed.

Case closed.....
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.





User: "Sergeant Tibbs"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans 05 Nov 2006 09:36:27 PM
Geoff wrote:

"Energoumenos" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1162740986.954688.215120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html

Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.


She turned me into a newt!


I got better...
Sergeant Tibbs
--
I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of this signature.
.


User: "Midwinter"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans 06 Nov 2006 04:35:48 AM
"Energoumenos" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote:

Local pagans were [...] branded witches

Well, that's gotta hurt...(?)

Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.

It worked well, then, didn't it? I take it The Magick Box is still
trading, and the pagans haven't yet left in droves?

"...I personally witnessed the owner of of the Magick Box [...] being
told 'you will burn in hell'."

They can't seem to get it through their heads that no-one's likely to be
afraid of a Hell they don't believe in. If people like this had two brain
cells to rub together they might, possibly, one day, be dangerous. To
butterflies.
Maybe one day they'll think of a threat that's designed to frighten the
person they're threatening, rather than themselves.

Father Kevin Knox-Lecky of St Mary's church said that after meeting
representatives of the pagan community he had decided not to invite
Youth 2000 to the town again.

Very sensible. They don't sound like the sort of idiots I'd want
advertising MY religion. The likelihood is that in one session of
stupidity they've done more damage to the perception of Christianity in
that area than the most fervent anti-religionist could have hoped - and
from the point of view of their own religion they've done Satan a great
service.

He said the majority of Catholics taking part in the procession had
been well-behaved and respectful of the pagans.

I'm sure that's true.
.

User: "Maria"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans 05 Nov 2006 04:35:31 PM
Energoumenos wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html

Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans

=B7 Police arrest youth on suspicion of harassment
=B7 Priest distances church from intimidation

Thair Shaikh
Saturday November 4, 2006
The Guardian

In scenes reminiscent of medieval witchhunts, Catholic pilgrims in
Glastonbury have attacked pagans and threatened to "cleanse" them from
the town.

Local pagans were pelted with salt and branded witches

I read that as 'pelted with sandwiches'. I think it's time I got some
specs.
.

User: "Dave"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 05 Nov 2006 12:36:49 PM
Energoumenos wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1939477,00.html

Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans

=B7 Police arrest youth on suspicion of harassment
=B7 Priest distances church from intimidation

Thair Shaikh
Saturday November 4, 2006
The Guardian

In scenes reminiscent of medieval witchhunts, Catholic pilgrims in
Glastonbury have attacked pagans and threatened to "cleanse" them from
the town.

Local pagans were pelted with salt and branded witches who "would burn
in hell" during a procession organised by Youth 2000, a conservative
Catholic lay group. The Magick Box, a pagan shop on the route of the
march, was also singled out and attacked.

Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments
such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at
our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of
paganism'.

"It was as if we had returned to the dark ages. This is hugely damaging
to Glastonbury ... it is hard enough to trade in Glastonbury as it is,
if you were to take away the pagan element it would be a dead town."
The Somerset town is known for having a large population of resident
and visiting pagans.

The archdruid of Glastonbury, Dreow Bennett, said: "To call the
behaviour of some of their members medieval would be an understatement.
I personally witnessed the owner of of the Magick Box being confronted
by one of their associates and being referred to as a bloody ***** and
being told 'you will burn in hell'."

Father Kevin Knox-Lecky of St Mary's church said that after meeting
representatives of the pagan community he had decided not to invite
Youth 2000 to the town again.

He said: "A family appeared who we don't know, who were very
destructive not only in the town and to the pagan community, but were
also swearing at our parishioners as well."

He said the majority of Catholics taking part in the procession had
been well-behaved and respectful of the pagans.

The retreat was organised last week to mark the 467th anniversary of
the beheading of the last abbot of Glastonbury Abbey, Richard Whiting,
and fellow martyrs.

Youth 2000 describes itself as "an independent, international
initiative that helps young adults aged 16-35 plug back into God at the
heart of the Roman Catholic Church".

It was set up 10 years ago by a disenchanted Catholic barrister who
wanted a return to the traditional teachings of the church for young
people.

Charlie Conner, the managing director of Youth 2000, said: "There were
several incidents that happened that same weekend that were linked to
people who had come to Glastonbury for the retreat. This was in direct
contravention of the general spirit of Youth 2000 and its express
instructions. The young man who was fined was not in fact registered on
the retreat, although he did attempt to attend it.

"Youth 2000 does not condone or encourage this kind of behaviour from
anyone. We fully agree that differences on matters of faith cannot and
should not be resolved by any kind of harassment."

A spokesman for Avon and Somerset police confirmed a youth had been
arrested at Magick Box on suspicion of causing harassment, alarm or
distress.

Two women were also given cautions and warned about their future
conduct.

Well, the gospel today had "You must love your neighbour as yourself."
Is there such a thing as incitement to religious hatred? Perphaps
burning an effigy of the pope fits into this?
.
User: "Midwinter"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 04:43:19 AM
"Dave" <dwickford@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, the gospel today had "You must love your neighbour as yourself."

Is there such a thing as incitement to religious hatred?

Under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, yes there is.

Perphaps burning an effigy of the pope fits into this?

I don't know. You'd have to take it court and see how it finds. I would
tend to think such an act would be considered incitement to hatred, simply
because it's not any form of reasonable criticism of the religion and has
no satirical value - all it is is hate. I'd imagine the argument then
would depend on whether it was considered merely an expression of one
person's hatred, or an attempt by that person to evoke the same feelings in
others.
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 12 Nov 2006 12:03:59 PM
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 04:43:19 -0600, Midwinter
<midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in alt.atheism

"Dave" <dwickford@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, the gospel today had "You must love your neighbour as yourself."

Is there such a thing as incitement to religious hatred?


Under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, yes there is.


Perphaps burning an effigy of the pope fits into this?


I don't know. You'd have to take it court and see how it finds. I would
tend to think such an act would be considered incitement to hatred, simply
because it's not any form of reasonable criticism of the religion and has
no satirical value - all it is is hate.

Oh, I can see a person utilizing it as a form of satire. For instance,
showing the Pope burning in the same Hell for eternity as his
superstition asserts about the others.

I'd imagine the argument then
would depend on whether it was considered merely an expression of one
person's hatred, or an attempt by that person to evoke the same feelings in
others.

--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 14 Nov 2006 07:13:33 AM
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Oh, I can see a person utilizing it as a form of satire. For instance,
showing the Pope burning in the same Hell for eternity as his
superstition asserts about the others.

Well, it's an argument, certainly. As I say, I wouldn't want to presume
what a court might find in such a case.
--
Midwinter
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 16 Nov 2006 11:16:37 AM
On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:13:33 -0600, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote in alt.atheism

stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Oh, I can see a person utilizing it as a form of satire. For instance,
showing the Pope burning in the same Hell for eternity as his
superstition asserts about the others.


Well, it's an argument, certainly. As I say, I wouldn't want to presume
what a court might find in such a case.

Certainly. I was pointing out a possible useage for the situation.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.




User: "Martin"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 05 Nov 2006 04:18:04 PM
Dave wrote:

Energoumenos wrote:

Two women were also given cautions and warned about their future
conduct.

Well, the gospel today had "You must love your neighbour as yourself."

Is there such a thing as incitement to religious hatred? Perphaps
burning an effigy of the pope fits into this?

Funny you should say that. Today is Bonfire Night, all weekend we've
been burning effigies of Guido Fawkes that well known catholic upstart.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_fawkes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night
"Penny f' guy mista?"


.
User: "Midwinter"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 05:01:33 AM
Martin <usenet1@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:

Funny you should say that. Today is Bonfire Night, all weekend we've
been burning effigies of Guido Fawkes that well known catholic upstart.

I read that Tower Hamlets Council in London did away with the civic
bonfire this year, and instead had a festival celebrating a Bengali folk
tale. Their reasoning for disallowing the bonfire was that 'Guy Fawkes
Night' was an affront to Catholics.
Well, that it may be - but that would be down to the perception of
individual Catholics. Guy Fawkes is not remembered in this way because he
is a Catholic, but because he tried to blow up Parliament and kill the
King. That he believed his religion required him to do so is not the
fault of modern-day Catholics, or even most in his own time.
It's also probably more important to mention that Guy Fawkes was not
burned, but hanged. Bonfire Night and the whole Guy-burning routine are a
throwback to traditions far older than the Gunpowder Plot. Fawkes and his
failure merely provided a Church-friendly way for the traditions to
continue in a time when Britain was deeply Christian - just as communities
up and down Britain celebrate Oak Apple Day (a slightly late celebration
of Beltane) by employing an apocryphal story about King Charles II hiding
in an oak tree to escape the Roundheads.
.
User: "Jani"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 07:34:36 AM
"Midwinter" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns987370361DBD6CYPMNDEXHBCJOIU@216.196.109.145...

Martin <usenet1@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:

Funny you should say that. Today is Bonfire Night, all weekend we've
been burning effigies of Guido Fawkes that well known catholic upstart.


I read that Tower Hamlets Council in London did away with the civic
bonfire this year, and instead had a festival celebrating a Bengali folk
tale. Their reasoning for disallowing the bonfire was that 'Guy Fawkes
Night' was an affront to Catholics.

Well, that it may be - but that would be down to the perception of
individual Catholics. Guy Fawkes is not remembered in this way because he
is a Catholic, but because he tried to blow up Parliament and kill the
King. That he believed his religion required him to do so is not the
fault of modern-day Catholics, or even most in his own time.

Except that religion and politics were more closely interlinked in his time,
and having a Protestant monarch was rather a big deal.


It's also probably more important to mention that Guy Fawkes was not
burned, but hanged.

And the rest ...
Bonfire Night and the whole Guy-burning routine are a

throwback to traditions far older than the Gunpowder Plot. Fawkes and his
failure merely provided a Church-friendly way for the traditions to
continue in a time when Britain was deeply Christian - just as communities
up and down Britain celebrate Oak Apple Day (a slightly late celebration
of Beltane) by employing an apocryphal story about King Charles II hiding
in an oak tree to escape the Roundheads.

Which only goes to show that in *some* places (Oak Apple Day is hardly a
major national event, and I've managed to live in half a dozen different
areas of the North and Midlands without encountering it in any of them)
there are spring festivals as well as the rather more well-known autumn one.
Jani
.
User: "Midwinter"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 09:34:55 AM
"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Except that religion and politics were more closely interlinked in his
time, and having a Protestant monarch was rather a big deal.

True. But when we mark bonfire night, we are marking (supposedly) the
failure of this man to blow up Parliament - not the fact that he was a
Catholic.

Which only goes to show that in *some* places (Oak Apple Day is hardly
a major national event, and I've managed to live in half a dozen
different areas of the North and Midlands without encountering it in
any of them) there are spring festivals as well as the rather more
well-known autumn one.

All it goes to show is that banning bonfire night out of a fear of
offending Catholics is somewhat disproportionate.
.
User: "Jani"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 10:05:06 AM
"Midwinter" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns98739E8FDE5F9CYPMNDEXHBCJOIU@216.196.109.145...

"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Except that religion and politics were more closely interlinked in his
time, and having a Protestant monarch was rather a big deal.


True. But when we mark bonfire night, we are marking (supposedly) the
failure of this man to blow up Parliament - not the fact that he was a
Catholic.


Which only goes to show that in *some* places (Oak Apple Day is hardly
a major national event, and I've managed to live in half a dozen
different areas of the North and Midlands without encountering it in
any of them) there are spring festivals as well as the rather more
well-known autumn one.


All it goes to show is that banning bonfire night out of a fear of
offending Catholics is somewhat disproportionate.

And that not every local community festival is a christian takeover of some
ancient pagan rite dating back to the mists of time.
Jani
.
User: "Midwinter"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 11:49:35 AM
"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

And that not every local community festival is a christian takeover of
some ancient pagan rite dating back to the mists of time.

No indeed. In many such cases, the Christian elements were created by
those celebrating the festivals in order that they should be allowed to
continue celebrating them. Our bonfire tradition is, I'm afraid, one of
these.
.
User: "Jani"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 12:44:44 PM
"Midwinter" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns9873B564B2C59CYPMNDEXHBCJOIU@216.196.109.145...

"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

And that not every local community festival is a christian takeover of
some ancient pagan rite dating back to the mists of time.


No indeed. In many such cases, the Christian elements were created by
those celebrating the festivals in order that they should be allowed to
continue celebrating them. Our bonfire tradition is, I'm afraid, one of
these.

Could you be more specific? For instance, is there any historical evidence
that nationwide autumn fire-festivals, clearly identified as pagan,
underwent a wholesale, christian-driven re-naming in the early 1600s?
Jani
.
User: "Midwinter"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 06:43:12 PM
"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Could you be more specific? For instance, is there any historical
evidence that nationwide autumn fire-festivals, clearly identified as
pagan, underwent a wholesale, christian-driven re-naming in the early
1600s?

No. They were known, I believe, as bonfires then, and they still are.
.
User: "Jani"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 07:40:35 PM
"Midwinter" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns98747611C93CYPMNDEXHBCJOIU@216.196.109.145...

"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Could you be more specific? For instance, is there any historical
evidence that nationwide autumn fire-festivals, clearly identified as
pagan, underwent a wholesale, christian-driven re-naming in the early
1600s?


No. They were known, I believe, as bonfires then, and they still are.

Then your point would appear to be moot, at best.
Jani
.
User: "Midwinter"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 07 Nov 2006 05:05:51 AM
"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Then your point would appear to be moot, at best.

The fact remains that Bonfire Night is not in itself an anti-Catholic
event.
.
User: "Jani"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 08 Nov 2006 11:32:00 AM
"Midwinter" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns987470F3057ACCYPMNDEXHBCJOIU@216.196.109.145...

"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Then your point would appear to be moot, at best.


The fact remains that Bonfire Night is not in itself an anti-Catholic
event.

Nor is it an expedient christian reworking of an ancient pagan festival.
Jani
.
User: "Midwinter"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 08 Nov 2006 06:56:47 PM
"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Nor is it an expedient christian reworking of an ancient pagan festival.

Considering my point is moot, you're putting a lot of effort into
challenging it.
I said nothing about it being a 'Christian reworking'. I said that bonfire
festivals had older origins than Guy Fawkes. Unless of course you're
arguing that there were no such festivals prior to his failed attempt to
blow up Parliament - and if that is the case, it raises the question of why
we suddenly decided to commemorate his death, which didn't involve burning
him, by putting him on top of a fire.
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 13 Nov 2006 06:06:21 PM
On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:56:47 -0600, Midwinter
<midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in alt.atheism

"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Nor is it an expedient christian reworking of an ancient pagan festival.


Considering my point is moot, you're putting a lot of effort into
challenging it.

I said nothing about it being a 'Christian reworking'. I said that bonfire
festivals had older origins than Guy Fawkes. Unless of course you're
arguing that there were no such festivals prior to his failed attempt to
blow up Parliament - and if that is the case, it raises the question of why
we suddenly decided to commemorate his death, which didn't involve burning
him, by putting him on top of a fire.

Errrrrr, so the revelers can roast marshmellows and stay warm?
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.








User: "Noinden"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 03:15:50 PM
Jani wrote:

"Midwinter" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns98739E8FDE5F9CYPMNDEXHBCJOIU@216.196.109.145...

All it goes to show is that banning bonfire night out of a fear of
offending Catholics is somewhat disproportionate.


And that not every local community festival is a christian takeover of some
ancient pagan rite dating back to the mists of time.

Jani

HERITIC!!!
;)
.
User: "Jani"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 03:42:51 PM
"Noinden" <noinden@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162847750.173796.185780@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


Jani wrote:

"Midwinter" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns98739E8FDE5F9CYPMNDEXHBCJOIU@216.196.109.145...

All it goes to show is that banning bonfire night out of a fear of
offending Catholics is somewhat disproportionate.


And that not every local community festival is a christian takeover of
some
ancient pagan rite dating back to the mists of time.

Jani


HERITIC!!!
;)

ORC!!! ;)
(was it orc? we happened to be watching LotR1 on TV last night, and I
couldn't remember ...)
Jani
.





User: "Alan Ferris"

Title: Re: Catholic marchers turn on Glastonbury pagans/ Guy burning 06 Nov 2006 11:04:09 AM
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 05:01:33 -0600, Midwinter
<midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Martin <usenet1@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:

Funny you should say that. Today is Bonfire Night, all weekend we've
been burning effigies of Guido Fawkes that well known catholic upstart.


I read that Tower Hamlets Council in London did away with the civic
bonfire this year, and instead had a festival celebrating a Bengali folk
tale. Their reasoning for disallowing the bonfire was that 'Guy Fawkes
Night' was an affront to Catholics.

What the hell are you reading!
Tower Hamlets Celebrates Guy Fawkes Night
Date/s 05/11/2006
Venue/s Victoria Park
London, E3
Telephone 020 7364 7900
LAP area All
http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/templates/events/detail.cfm?frmEventID=771
They hold this every year in Victoria Park.
--
Alan "Ferrit" Ferris
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
.





  Page 1 of 6

1

 

2

 

3

 

4

 

5

 

6

 


Related Articles
Oops, Pedophile Catholic Priests Turn Up in England as Well
Thanks to RCC's Role in Rwandan GENOCIDE, Once Catholic Rwanda Turn to Islam
Catholic Indoctrination Through Sunday School
Catholic church condemns greedy AIDS drugs manufacturers
Judge orders AmeriCorps to stop financing Catholic programs
More Catholic Priest Jokes For duke
Australian Catholic Church Divided Over Priestly Celibacy
Catholic church starts to wise up to the reality of its impending collapse...!
Catholic priests molest boys in the UK too
Those wacky fun loving Catholic teachers :-)
Catholic Church Outlawed Slavery, But Nobody Listened
The Catholic Slide Down the Crapper
Oops, Catholic Elementary Teacher Senetenced For Sex w/Student
Four People Charged With Defrauding NYC Catholic Archdiocese of $2 Million in Food Purchases
J Young Christian of the Day Pt I : Catholic Priest Sentenced for Molesting 14 YO GIRL (as in FEMALE VICTIM!!!!!)
 

NEWER

pg.3585     pg.2749     pg.2106     pg.1612     pg.1232     pg.940     pg.716     pg.544     pg.412     pg.311     pg.234     pg.175     pg.130     pg.96     pg.70     pg.50     pg.35     pg.24     pg.16     pg.10     pg.6     pg.3     pg.1

OLDER