maff91@yahoo.com (maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0411160128.2fb79c71@posting.google.com>...

Maff, to be clear, are you saying that Golda Meir did not know much
about Eugenio Pacelli, aka Pope Pius XII? Do you know that the people
above were there at the time, witnessing the events in question?

How would they know about Vatican's archives?

Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140296271/

by John Cornwell

Ah, that explains it. Yes, John wrote a very interesting but fictional
account of Pius XII. But he did it the right way. By writing it as a
book, he avoided any counterclaim or feedback in the book itself. The
Left Behind series does the same thing.

The problem is when you post to a newsgroup, as you and Lister did.
This medium allows rebuttals, which gives people like me a way to use
the facts to counter the arguments and claims with no factual basis.

If you are hoping the Vatican archives contains this incriminating
evidence, you will be disappointed. Other archivists currently reading
through the archives report that they exonerate Pius XII from the
current charges and are consistent with what everyone who actually
lived during WW2 said. We should be seeing their books in the years to
come. Cornwell wrote a book to cash in and make some headlines, but
others are finding that he used outright deception.

For example, even the cover is deceptive. You might think Pius XII was
being by greeted by Nazi troops, with the German soldiers in the
picture and the words Hitler's Pope on the cover. But that picture is
actually from Pacelli's days as an emissary, before the Nazis came to
power, and those are just regular German soldiers, not Nazis.

To succeed, a lie must be subtle.

A Calendar of Jewish Persecution
http://www.hearnow.org/caljp.html

Here comes the distortions and misinformation

That's what all criminals say.

Your forgot the other category: people telling the truth. That would
be me.

Vatican was involved in terrorism
against all religionists including fellow Catholics for 1,700 years.

Terrorists? Heh, why not round it off to 2000 years?

Did you think you're going to get away with it?

What are you going to do? Sic Bush on us?

The pope's emissary in Germany, Papal Nuncio Eugenio Pacelli, the
future Pope Pius XII, helped to demolish the young Weimar republic.
After the liberal democratic Catholic leader Erzberger had been
assassinated, the Pope's exertions became directed to the support of
all Right Wing movements in Germany, via the influence of the Catholic
Centre Party. On march 23, 1933, the German Reichstag met, and the
Catholic Party, led by its Catholic leaders, former chancellor Brüning
and prelate Mgr. Kaas, personal friend of Pacelli, voted for Catholic
Hitler.

Was Hitler a Catholic? No.

http://www.geocities.com/chiniquy/Hitler.html

He was certainly was a Catholic. He wasn't even ex-communicated. He
died a Catholic.

If you had read the link, you would have seen that in Hitler's own
writings he considered himself pagan, and did not want any connection
with Catholicism. It is possible for a Catholic to take actions that
excommunicate himself, without a formal pronouncement from the Church.

"Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as
before a Catholic and will always remain so."

Because, of course, a quote from a forged diary trumps quotes of
Hitler which many eyewitnesses attested to at the time. By the way,
its Gerhard, not Gerhart.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/reviews/HaywardonHW.html

but his miserable Mien Kampf never appeared on the Index
of Forbidden Books. "

That is because the Church only forbids books which could endanger the
soul of the reader, not any book which is a piece of crap.

After this, having received, directly from the Vatican, orders
to disband, the Catholic Party dissolved. Preached Pacelli to the
German Catholics:

"...it is all the more necessary that the Catholics, deprived of
diplomatic representation, should find in the diplomatic pacts between
the Holy See and the National Socialist Government guarantees which
can assure them ... the maintenance of their position in the life of
the nation."

Mgr. Kaas, leader of the dissolved Catholic Party, put it even more
bluntly: Catholics must support Hitler, he said. They should not have
any fears about it. For Hitler's ideals were "noble ideals."
Furthermore, "Hitler knows well how to guide the ship." In this way
the first successful democracy on german soil had been destroyed.
[MC250-252]

For the record, Pope Pius XII did not support Kaas in this.

Your words are worthless. Vatican's own archives contradicts you.

Oh, so you have been allowed into the archives to conduct research?
That is fascinating, tell me, what other time periods have you been
reading through?

Why
wasn't he excommunicated in any case?

He did it himself, ipso facto. Again, if you had read my link, you
would have known that.

"We should not forget that in the long run, the pope in Rome is a
greater enemy of National Socialism than Churchill or Roosevelt,"
Reinhard Heydrich

In the long term, we're all dead. But in the meantime, Nazis were in
the bed with the Catholic Party.

So are you saying Reinhard was being deceptive? Please explain why?

New York Times editorial Dec 25, 1941
"The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness
enveloping Europe this Christmas... he is about the only ruler left on
the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all... the
Pope put himself squarely against Hitlerism... he left no doubt that
the Nazi aims are also irreconcilable with his own conception of a
Christian peace."

And a year later
"This Christmas more than ever he is a lonely voice crying out of the
silence of a continent... Pope Pius expresses as passionately as any
leader on our side the war aims of the struggle for freedom when he
says that those who aim at building a new world must fight for free
choice of government and religious order. They must refuse that the
state should make of individuals a herd of whom the state disposes as
if they were lifeless things."

Instead of mindlessly contradicting the above quotes, please explain

Maybe I should have highlighted this part in bold?

why these people were so wrong at the time, or why they would lie.
Quoting websites written by people who have no clue about history
serves no purpose other than to discredit your own arguments.

They certainly would lie because Vatican is a terrorist organization,
State and an Evil Empire to boot. It's going to be dismatled like all
Empires.

Here I concede you are correct, the Vatican is, indeed, a State.

If you're going to sacrifice your life and money for Vatican's fascism
then by all means go for it. It won't be a pretty sight.

THE AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY gives as its primary definition of
fascism "a philosophy or system of government that advocates or
exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the
merging of state and business leadership, together with an ideology of
belligerent nationalism."

So what business leadership does the Vatican use? And do you have
evidence for the Vatican's belligerent nationalism?