| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Martin Willett" |
| Date: |
07 Apr 2005 05:15:19 AM |
| Object: |
Catholics kill babies |
What is the problem with the Catholic church saying:
1 ] Sex in marriage is wonderful
2 ] Sex outside marriage is always a sin
3 ] The church requires married couples not to use "artificial" birth
control devices.
4 ] Condoms prevent the spread of AIDS
There is no inconsistency at all in those views. Condoms could be used
by married couples who have AIDS. Condoms could be used by "sinners".
In what possible way is wearing a condom more of a sin than prostitution?
The church knows people are sinners and will sin, do sin. So what is so
wrong in allowing those sinners to sin in (comparative) safety and
without putting other people's lives at risk?
Having condoms available makes "the sin of artificial birth control"
more possible, but having kitchen knives makes murder more possible, it
is a rather flabby bit of reasoning. Driving while drunk is a crime and
a sin but the church does not forbid either alcohol or cars. Surely
condoms could be available to those who cannot avoid the sins of
promiscuity without it forcing good Catholics into "the sin of
artificial birth control".
There is no moral excuse for the Catholic Church's open hostility to
condom use by people who are already flouting the Church's teachings.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
.
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| User: "Alison" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 01:16:35 PM |
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In <425681FF.CAA681D4@20RueJacob.fr> Natalie Clifford Barney wrote:
Liz wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
Alison
One of a number of kids. One of my own and another on the way (4 weeks and
counting ...)
Celibate for .... ooohh .... a few weeks now. Third trimester pregnancy has
that effect. :-)
I will be ending the 12 day celibacy this eve...........
Kesnit is visiting....
W00t!! :-)
Natalie Clifford Barney
Les Soeurs de Lesbianisme Sacré
<hugs>
-- Ali
.
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| User: "Natalie Clifford Barney" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 06:06:03 PM |
|
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Alison wrote:
In <425681FF.CAA681D4@20RueJacob.fr> Natalie Clifford Barney wrote:
Liz wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
Alison
One of a number of kids. One of my own and another on the way (4 weeks and
counting ...)
Celibate for .... ooohh .... a few weeks now. Third trimester pregnancy has
that effect. :-)
I will be ending the 12 day celibacy this eve...........
Kesnit is visiting....
W00t!! :-)
Natalie Clifford Barney
Les Soeurs de Lesbianisme Sacré
<hugs>
-- Ali
Hugs sis......
--
"Her wit inspired laughter, but it could just as easily cut. It was heaven to be the
focus of those startling blue eyes and that energetic mind, but hell when the
attention turned elsewhere."
.
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| User: "Alan Ferris" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 04:37:22 PM |
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:16:35 -0000, Alison <cooties@mac[spam].com>
wrote:
Alison
One of a number of kids. One of my own and another on the way (4 weeks and
counting ...)
Celibate for .... ooohh .... a few weeks now. Third trimester pregnancy has
that effect. :-)
Have you been busy knitting that Matinee coat? I hope NOT!
--
Alan "Ferrit" Ferris
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
.
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| User: "Alison" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 05:34:59 PM |
|
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In <ccud5192qt7529j45srb35822rhcdidnkt@4ax.com> Alan Ferris wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:16:35 -0000, Alison <cooties@mac[spam].com>
wrote:
Alison
One of a number of kids. One of my own and another on the way (4 weeks and
counting ...)
Celibate for .... ooohh .... a few weeks now. Third trimester pregnancy has
that effect. :-)
Have you been busy knitting that Matinee coat? I hope NOT!
Pink or blue? :-)
Aggie does all the knitting around here, BTW. I haven't the patience ... :-)
Alan "Ferrit" Ferris
-- Ali
.
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| User: "Alan Ferris" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 06:00:10 PM |
|
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 22:34:59 -0000, Alison <cooties@mac[spam].com>
wrote:
In <ccud5192qt7529j45srb35822rhcdidnkt@4ax.com> Alan Ferris wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:16:35 -0000, Alison <cooties@mac[spam].com>
wrote:
Alison
One of a number of kids. One of my own and another on the way (4 weeks and
counting ...)
Celibate for .... ooohh .... a few weeks now. Third trimester pregnancy has
that effect. :-)
Have you been busy knitting that Matinee coat? I hope NOT!
Pink or blue? :-)
I don't think the little one will mind.
I mentioned the Matinee coat because I am in the middle of reading The
Light in the Window by June Goulding. The poor girls in the Laundry
were forced to do it.
Aggie does all the knitting around here, BTW. I haven't the patience ... :-)
I only knitted the once, a very long scarf, simply because I had not
learnt how to finish :)
--
Alan "Ferrit" Ferris
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
.
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| User: "Alan Ferris" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 04:38:59 PM |
|
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:16:35 -0000, Alison <cooties@mac[spam].com>
wrote:
In <425681FF.CAA681D4@20RueJacob.fr> Natalie Clifford Barney wrote:
Liz wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
Alison
One of a number of kids. One of my own and another on the way (4 weeks and
counting ...)
One of three children, fathers death prevented more.
Celibate for .... ooohh .... a few weeks now. Third trimester pregnancy has
that effect. :-)
Celibate for oooohhhhh 12 hours :)
--
Alan "Ferrit" Ferris
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
.
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| User: "Darklady" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 03:46:26 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
-- Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org
.
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| User: "Natalie Clifford Barney" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 06:21:13 PM |
|
|
Darklady wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
-- Darklady
My friend;
P,lease feel free to call to chat anytime; as my love lives about 450 moiles
away, I am generally free to shoot the breeze over a cup of coffee....
http://www.darklady.com
http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org
--
"Her wit inspired laughter, but it could just as easily cut. It was heaven to
be the focus of those startling blue eyes and that energetic mind, but hell
when the attention turned elsewhere."
.
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| User: "Darklady" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
09 Apr 2005 01:37:31 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:21:13 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
Darklady wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
-- Darklady
My friend;
P,lease feel free to call to chat anytime; as my love lives about 450 moiles
away, I am generally free to shoot the breeze over a cup of coffee....
I'm positively notorious for not calling people, especially if
I'm feeling blue, so feel free to call me. I had a friend come by
yesterday to pick up a table and some ice chests he'd left here. He
begged me to stop being so "pragmatic and stoical" and to let him know
what he could do for me. I pragmatically and stoically asked him to
keep being my friend.
I'm so high maintenance and demanding. <g>
-- Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org
.
|
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| User: "Natalie Clifford Barney" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
09 Apr 2005 12:43:48 PM |
|
|
Darklady wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:21:13 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
Darklady wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
-- Darklady
My friend;
P,lease feel free to call to chat anytime; as my love lives about 450 moiles
away, I am generally free to shoot the breeze over a cup of coffee....
I'm positively notorious for not calling people, especially if
I'm feeling blue, so feel free to call me. I had a friend come by
yesterday to pick up a table and some ice chests he'd left here. He
begged me to stop being so "pragmatic and stoical" and to let him know
what he could do for me. I pragmatically and stoically asked him to
keep being my friend.
I'm so high maintenance and demanding. <g>
-- Darklady
Dear friend;
I am a Femme Lesbian, and the poster child for high maintanence...
though Kesnit says she knows straights who are worse..
hugs;
Natalie Clifford Barney
Les Soeurs de Lesbianisme Sacré
http://www.darklady.com
http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org
--
"Her wit inspired laughter, but it could just as easily cut. It was heaven to be the
focus of those startling blue eyes and that energetic mind, but hell when the
attention turned elsewhere."
.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 04:49:48 PM |
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:46:26 -0700, Darklady <darklady@darklady.com>
in news message <3brd519m6ur7mvdvn343811dh8ipmvie97@4ax.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
Always remember the ex is the ex for a reason.
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
Funny how that works. Which reminds me, since masturbation neither
offers the chance of unwanted pregnancy nor disease, why in the world
does Christianity consider it a sin? Is it because it is pleasurable?
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
.
|
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| User: "amban" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
09 Apr 2005 11:35:25 AM |
|
|
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:vuud51peu35en7ki3eskajl5tttiif9g6c@4ax.com...
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:46:26 -0700, Darklady <darklady@darklady.com>
in news message <3brd519m6ur7mvdvn343811dh8ipmvie97@4ax.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past
9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
Always remember the ex is the ex for a reason.
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
Funny how that works. Which reminds me, since masturbation neither
offers the chance of unwanted pregnancy nor disease, why in the world
does Christianity consider it a sin? Is it because it is pleasurable?
I think originally it was frowned upon because there were so few people and
children and babies died so young. I think this applies to birth control
too. But as with fish stories it was exaggerated, blown out of proportion
and made a sin. Now it is just brainwashing and shame making that keeps it
a sin. It should be the opposite now like one collects indulgences or
something. :-)
AMBAN
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
.
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| User: "Darklady" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
09 Apr 2005 08:49:34 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:35:25 -0400, "amban"
<yousayrevetahw24@newsguy.com> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:vuud51peu35en7ki3eskajl5tttiif9g6c@4ax.com...
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:46:26 -0700, Darklady <darklady@darklady.com>
in news message <3brd519m6ur7mvdvn343811dh8ipmvie97@4ax.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past
9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
Always remember the ex is the ex for a reason.
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
Funny how that works. Which reminds me, since masturbation neither
offers the chance of unwanted pregnancy nor disease, why in the world
does Christianity consider it a sin? Is it because it is pleasurable?
I think originally it was frowned upon because there were so few people and
children and babies died so young. I think this applies to birth control
too. But as with fish stories it was exaggerated, blown out of proportion
and made a sin. Now it is just brainwashing and shame making that keeps it
a sin. It should be the opposite now like one collects indulgences or
something. :-)
People (meaning especially our ultra religious pals here) keep
forgetting that prior to effective birth control, women were legally
the property of their fathers and their babies were also the property
of other people. By controlling who gets the women pregant, lines of
inheritance were kept orderly.
These things have nothing to do with how human nature works or
what things are emotionally or physically or spiritually best for
anyone. It's all about bookkeeping and social control.
-- Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
10 Apr 2005 12:33:23 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:49:34 -0700, Darklady <darklady@darklady.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:35:25 -0400, "amban"
<yousayrevetahw24@newsguy.com> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:vuud51peu35en7ki3eskajl5tttiif9g6c@4ax.com...
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:46:26 -0700, Darklady <darklady@darklady.com>
in news message <3brd519m6ur7mvdvn343811dh8ipmvie97@4ax.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past
9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
Always remember the ex is the ex for a reason.
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
Funny how that works. Which reminds me, since masturbation neither
offers the chance of unwanted pregnancy nor disease, why in the world
does Christianity consider it a sin? Is it because it is pleasurable?
I think originally it was frowned upon because there were so few people and
children and babies died so young. I think this applies to birth control
too. But as with fish stories it was exaggerated, blown out of proportion
and made a sin. Now it is just brainwashing and shame making that keeps it
a sin. It should be the opposite now like one collects indulgences or
something. :-)
People (meaning especially our ultra religious pals here) keep
forgetting that prior to effective birth control, women were legally
the property of their fathers and their babies were also the property
of other people. By controlling who gets the women pregant, lines of
inheritance were kept orderly.
These things have nothing to do with how human nature works or
what things are emotionally or physically or spiritually best for
anyone. It's all about bookkeeping and social control.
The bookkeeping would be better if the male took the females last
name.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
10 Apr 2005 12:31:13 PM |
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:49:48 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:46:26 -0700, Darklady <darklady@darklady.com>
in news message <3brd519m6ur7mvdvn343811dh8ipmvie97@4ax.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
Always remember the ex is the ex for a reason.
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
Funny how that works. Which reminds me, since masturbation neither
offers the chance of unwanted pregnancy nor disease, why in the world
does Christianity consider it a sin? Is it because it is pleasurable?
Yes.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Darklady" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
09 Apr 2005 01:35:27 AM |
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:49:48 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:46:26 -0700, Darklady <darklady@darklady.com>
in news message <3brd519m6ur7mvdvn343811dh8ipmvie97@4ax.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
Always remember the ex is the ex for a reason.
Yes, that's something I've had to remind myself about. The
Catholic Guilt is still deep in my bones, so I automatically keep
thinking I just wasn't patient or understanding or (fill in the blank)
enough.
But he sure was a fabulous lover. It was like all the
emotional repression that he exercised with his clothes off would melt
away and he would be especially tender, sensitive, strong, and
vulnerable when we made love. Once we were done he was back to being
Mr. Stiff Upper Lip, however. Blah.
Kinda the opposite of what RS keeps claiming, actually.
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
Funny how that works. Which reminds me, since masturbation neither
offers the chance of unwanted pregnancy nor disease, why in the world
does Christianity consider it a sin? Is it because it is pleasurable?
I would guess "yes" on that one. Plus, it doesn't get you
pregnant, so what's it good for in a religion that demands pregnancy?
It might inspire a lustful thought, too, although I've had many a
masturbation experience that was purely a form of pelvic muscular
release. After my recent surgery, it was a huge comfort to be able to
get my pelvic muscles to relax. Of course, had I still been a
Catholic, it would have been a sin. Only suffering appears truly and
unquestionably holy in this sadistic so-called diety's view.
-- Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
10 Apr 2005 12:30:49 PM |
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:46:26 -0700, Darklady <darklady@darklady.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:52:00 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:38:47 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> in news message
<42567B51.B710FE64@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
amban wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d33pmh$rsn$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
<harmonybrenda@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Natalie
One of four children, with 3 of her own, celibate for about 12 days.....
Liz
One of three children by two different fathers, mother of two,
celibate for approximately 36 hours . . .
One of three children (one now dead, the other mentally
retarded).
Childfree by choice.
Celibate for three months and not finding anyone that makes me
want to change that. Nearly called the ex for a booty call last week
but masturbated and started thinking MUCH more clearly. :)
There ya go. :)
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 08:11:50 AM |
|
|
wrote in news:1112870871.414353.227370
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Sex is a beautiful thing, designed for male/female unions to keep life
going.
It is not to be taken lightly. (not just for fun)
Because of it's creative power, in procreating new life, it is very,
very precious and should not be abused, degraded or made "dirty"
"Keep the marriage bed undefiled"
Anal sex is dirty and dangerous. A major cause of HIV/AIDS.
if people are allowed to freely indulge in the "flesh" in however ways,
and with whoever, it is disastrous! Ruins families, produces diseases
and unwanted babies = abortions, etc.
God designed sex for marriage. (between male and female)
No one who stays with their partner contracts AIDS. Only those who
"sleep around" or have sex in an unhealthy way.
Look what has happened since the Sexual Revolution and Free Love!
Children are being born into unstable families, or one-parent
situations and growing up with problems. More kids need medication
these days than ever in the history of mankind! More kids are taking
drugs, experimenting with sex, and getting into crime, than ever
before.
The worst thing is that people are having sex anywhere they like and it
is getting out of control. AIDS is killing millions and it's all
because people have strayed from the usual/normal male/female secure
marriage situation.
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Happy, healthy and free!!!
Wow, I don't know whether to laugh at this as a great parody of people
who believe these religious absurdities or to cry because it's for real
and people really do believe these religious absurdities.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 10:00:26 AM |
|
|
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns96315E429B67Bwodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
harmonybrenda@yahoo.com wrote in news:1112870871.414353.227370
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Sex is a beautiful thing, designed for male/female unions to keep life
going.
It is not to be taken lightly. (not just for fun)
Because of it's creative power, in procreating new life, it is very,
very precious and should not be abused, degraded or made "dirty"
"Keep the marriage bed undefiled"
Anal sex is dirty and dangerous. A major cause of HIV/AIDS.
if people are allowed to freely indulge in the "flesh" in however ways,
and with whoever, it is disastrous! Ruins families, produces diseases
and unwanted babies = abortions, etc.
God designed sex for marriage. (between male and female)
No one who stays with their partner contracts AIDS. Only those who
"sleep around" or have sex in an unhealthy way.
Look what has happened since the Sexual Revolution and Free Love!
Children are being born into unstable families, or one-parent
situations and growing up with problems. More kids need medication
these days than ever in the history of mankind! More kids are taking
drugs, experimenting with sex, and getting into crime, than ever
before.
The worst thing is that people are having sex anywhere they like and it
is getting out of control. AIDS is killing millions and it's all
because people have strayed from the usual/normal male/female secure
marriage situation.
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Happy, healthy and free!!!
Wow, I don't know whether to laugh at this as a great parody of people
who believe these religious absurdities or to cry because it's for real
and people really do believe these religious absurdities.
It's for real. She really believes that crap. On some level she must doubt
it, however.
.
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| User: "John M." |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 10:54:56 AM |
|
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Woden wrote:
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
Amen!
Tony
.
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| User: "Martin Willett" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 08:56:10 AM |
|
|
Woden wrote:
harmonybrenda@yahoo.com wrote in news:1112870871.414353.227370
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Sex is a beautiful thing, designed for male/female unions to keep life
going.
It is not to be taken lightly. (not just for fun)
Because of it's creative power, in procreating new life, it is very,
very precious and should not be abused, degraded or made "dirty"
"Keep the marriage bed undefiled"
Anal sex is dirty and dangerous. A major cause of HIV/AIDS.
if people are allowed to freely indulge in the "flesh" in however ways,
and with whoever, it is disastrous! Ruins families, produces diseases
and unwanted babies = abortions, etc.
God designed sex for marriage. (between male and female)
No one who stays with their partner contracts AIDS. Only those who
"sleep around" or have sex in an unhealthy way.
Look what has happened since the Sexual Revolution and Free Love!
Children are being born into unstable families, or one-parent
situations and growing up with problems. More kids need medication
these days than ever in the history of mankind! More kids are taking
drugs, experimenting with sex, and getting into crime, than ever
before.
The worst thing is that people are having sex anywhere they like and it
is getting out of control. AIDS is killing millions and it's all
because people have strayed from the usual/normal male/female secure
marriage situation.
Keep sex sacred, respectable and holy, I say!!
(or don't have sex!!!)
Its as simple as that!!
in peace and truth,
Brenda
(One of 10 Catholic children, mother of two, and celibate for past 9
years)
Happy, healthy and free!!!
Is that ten children who freely volunteered to be made into Catholics?
Wow, I don't know whether to laugh at this as a great parody of people
who believe these religious absurdities or to cry because it's for real
and people really do believe these religious absurdities.
I can't get over the hypocrisy of hearing about how wonderful sex is
from people who have taken vows of celibacy. How the hell can a celibate
begin to understand sex?
The Catholic Church's attitude to sex is fundamentally screwed up
because they see sex in the context of sin, perversion and reproduction.
They have no clear idea of what sex is really for and what motivates it.
It is a clear case of garbage in, garbage out. With fundamentally
screwed up ideas about what sex is about, why people want it, why they
enjoy it and why they want to do it and when they want to it is
inevitable that all the teachings they base on this faulty theory are
themselves irredeemably faulty.
At least there is one thing to be said for the Catholic Church's theory
of sex, it does bear a closer (if totally accidental) resemblance to
reality than the "if it feels good do it" and liberal free will
"explanation" for sex.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
.
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| User: "RS" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 09:23:46 AM |
|
|
"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3bksgbF6jilvrU1@individual.net...
I can't get over the hypocrisy of hearing about how wonderful sex is from
people who have taken vows of celibacy. How the hell can a celibate begin
to understand sex?
It is not hypocrisy at all. I am Roman Catholic and currently am celibate
because I am not married. I understand sex because I am not a virgin. I
was quite sexually active before my conversion. Afterwards, however, after
I prayed for truth in the Spirit, I realized that the Catholic teachings
aren't of men, but are of God. God teaches us how sex should be approached:
worship.
The Catholic Church's attitude to sex is fundamentally screwed up because
they see sex in the context of sin, perversion and reproduction.
On the contrary, we see sex in the context of purity. 1) Procreation 2)
worship 3) Passion 4) Pleasure (though the last two can be combined). Sex
is a wonderful thing to be shared between a husband and a wife and no one
else.
They have no clear idea of what sex is really for and what motivates it.
It is a clear case of garbage in, garbage out. With fundamentally screwed
up ideas about what sex is about, why people want it, why they enjoy it
and why they want to do it and when they want to it is inevitable that all
the teachings they base on this faulty theory are themselves irredeemably
faulty.
This is the problem "Why people want it, why they enjoy it and why they want
to do it and when they want to do it" is what the Church teaches against.
It is utterly and horribly selfish. To do it when you want to do it
completley removes it from the will and plan of God. Surrender unto His
will and you shall see truth. To do it when you want to reduces it to a sin
of lust. To do it when you are prepared to elevates it to an act of passion
if done with your wife.
-RS
.
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| User: "Martin Willett" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 11:14:37 AM |
|
|
RS wrote:
"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3bksgbF6jilvrU1@individual.net...
I can't get over the hypocrisy of hearing about how wonderful sex is from
people who have taken vows of celibacy. How the hell can a celibate begin
to understand sex?
It is not hypocrisy at all. I am Roman Catholic and currently am celibate
because I am not married. I understand sex because I am not a virgin. I
was quite sexually active before my conversion. Afterwards, however, after
I prayed for truth in the Spirit, I realized that the Catholic teachings
aren't of men, but are of God. God teaches us how sex should be approached:
worship.
Nah. I've retrained my wife. She uses my name when she has an orgasm
now, not His.
I didn't mean taking lessons from you, I don't know you. I mean taking
lessons from priests who have been brought up to be celibate and deny
themselves all forms of sexuality and sexual gratification. What do
celibate virgins know about sex?
When I give my children advice about sex I will expect them to respect
the fact that I know something about the subject.
The Catholic Church's attitude to sex is fundamentally screwed up because
they see sex in the context of sin, perversion and reproduction.
On the contrary, we see sex in the context of purity. 1) Procreation 2)
worship 3) Passion 4) Pleasure (though the last two can be combined). Sex
is a wonderful thing to be shared between a husband and a wife and no one
else.
Why? Explain why it is a wonderful act and part of God's will when done
in a marriage and yet thoroughly selfish, evil, hedonistic sin of the
flesh inspired by the devil when done with a loving partner you have not
married. Give me the full explanation. It isn't at all clear to me why
sex outside a marriage should always be considered something evil. Did
you feel you were being wicked when you had sex? Did you detect the
presence of satanic forces making you do the dirty deed?
They have no clear idea of what sex is really for and what motivates it.
It is a clear case of garbage in, garbage out. With fundamentally screwed
up ideas about what sex is about, why people want it, why they enjoy it
and why they want to do it and when they want to it is inevitable that all
the teachings they base on this faulty theory are themselves irredeemably
faulty.
This is the problem "Why people want it, why they enjoy it and why they want
to do it and when they want to do it" is what the Church teaches against.
It is utterly and horribly selfish. To do it when you want to do it
completley removes it from the will and plan of God. Surrender unto His
will and you shall see truth. To do it when you want to reduces it to a sin
of lust. To do it when you are prepared to elevates it to an act of passion
if done with your wife.
Having sex when you want to (according to your God-given nature?) is a
sin of lust whereas having sex when the Pope's chart says you probably
won't fall pregnant (no money back, no guarantee, don't sue us we're
immune) is a loving act? That needs some explaining, and something
rather better than the usual blather about mysterious ways or us mere
mortals being too stupid to understand.
Is the difference between lust and passion like the difference between
liberty and licence, or between having liberties and taking them?
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
.
|
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| User: "RS" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 03:51:37 PM |
|
|
"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3bl4juF6g6rlsU1@individual.net...
I didn't mean taking lessons from you, I don't know you. I mean taking
lessons from priests who have been brought up to be celibate and deny
themselves all forms of sexuality and sexual gratification. What do
celibate virgins know about sex?
They know what God revealed to them.
Why? Explain why it is a wonderful act and part of God's will when done in
a marriage and yet thoroughly selfish, evil, hedonistic sin of the flesh
inspired by the devil when done with a loving partner you have not
married. Give me the full explanation. It isn't at all clear to me why sex
outside a marriage should always be considered something evil. Did you
feel you were being wicked when you had sex? Did you detect the presence
of satanic forces making you do the dirty deed?
1) If you are not married to a woman, she doesn't have a union with you. A
man who has sexual intercourse with a woman who isn't his wife commits the
sin of adultery. A woman who has sexual intercourse with a man who isn't
her husband commits adultery. Her body belongs to God, not to you. When
you are married and become one body, one flesh, then it is right. Until
then, it is wrong.
2) The funny thing about deception from Satan is that for the most part, it
doesn't feel wrong. Sex feels right if done with someone you love.
Regardless, I made the choice to sin and I confessed those sins. Even if it
feels right, if you are not married and the girl is not your wife or the man
not your husband, it is sinful. All sin is the absence from God. God is
all good and all loving. Anything that exists in the absence of Him is
evil.
Having sex when you want to (according to your God-given nature?) is a sin
of lust whereas having sex when the Pope's chart says you probably won't
fall pregnant (no money back, no guarantee, don't sue us we're immune) is
a loving act? That needs some explaining, and something rather better than
the usual blather about mysterious ways or us mere mortals being too
stupid to understand.
Your ignorance shines. NFP isn't a system developed by the Pope. It is a
system supported by the Catholic Church as a chaste way of approaching
marriage. Sexual intercourse between a man and a wife exists for three
reasons: 1) Procreation 2) worship 3) Passion. Being closed to life removes
it from God and if it is removed from God, it is mere lust rather than
passion.
Is the difference between lust and passion like the difference between
liberty and licence, or between having liberties and taking them?
The difference between lust and passion is that lust occurs when the act is
removed from God. If a man and his wife unite in sexual intercourse for
what it was created for, it will be completely pleasurable and free from
sin. It becomes them expressing their true love for eachother as well as
their love for God for uniting them as one body. To remove it from that is
lust.
-RS
.
|
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 04:12:01 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:51:37 -0400, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3bl4juF6g6rlsU1@individual.net...
I didn't mean taking lessons from you, I don't know you. I mean taking
lessons from priests who have been brought up to be celibate and deny
themselves all forms of sexuality and sexual gratification. What do
celibate virgins know about sex?
They know what God revealed to them.
Don't be so stupid. Figments of your deluded imagination can't reveal
anything.
Why? Explain why it is a wonderful act and part of God's will when done in
a marriage and yet thoroughly selfish, evil, hedonistic sin of the flesh
inspired by the devil when done with a loving partner you have not
married. Give me the full explanation. It isn't at all clear to me why sex
outside a marriage should always be considered something evil. Did you
feel you were being wicked when you had sex? Did you detect the presence
of satanic forces making you do the dirty deed?
1) If you are not married to a woman, she doesn't have a union with you. A
man who has sexual intercourse with a woman who isn't his wife commits the
sin of adultery. A woman who has sexual intercourse with a man who isn't
her husband commits adultery. Her body belongs to God, not to you. When
you are married and become one body, one flesh, then it is right. Until
then, it is wrong.
No, moron, he doesn't commit any sin. You're in the real world now,
where your religion and its prudish doctrines don't even apply.
2) The funny thing about deception from Satan is that for the most part, it
doesn't feel wrong. Sex feels right if done with someone you love.
The funny thing about Satan is that it is a figment of your deluded
imagination.
What kind of moron talks at people outside his religion as though it
were real?
Regardless, I made the choice to sin and I confessed those sins. Even if it
feels right, if you are not married and the girl is not your wife or the man
not your husband, it is sinful. All sin is the absence from God. God is
all good and all loving. Anything that exists in the absence of Him is
evil.
And God is also a figment of your deluded imagination until you
demonstrate otherwise.
Again, what kind of moron talks at people outside his religion as
though it were real?
Having sex when you want to (according to your God-given nature?) is a sin
of lust whereas having sex when the Pope's chart says you probably won't
fall pregnant (no money back, no guarantee, don't sue us we're immune) is
a loving act? That needs some explaining, and something rather better than
the usual blather about mysterious ways or us mere mortals being too
stupid to understand.
Your ignorance shines. NFP isn't a system developed by the Pope. It is a
system supported by the Catholic Church as a chaste way of approaching
marriage. Sexual intercourse between a man and a wife exists for three
reasons: 1) Procreation 2) worship 3) Passion. Being closed to life removes
it from God and if it is removed from God, it is mere lust rather than
passion.
*****, ***** and *****. It is the ultimate expression of love
between two people.
Is the difference between lust and passion like the difference between
liberty and licence, or between having liberties and taking them?
The difference between lust and passion is that lust occurs when the act is
removed from God. If a man and his wife unite in sexual intercourse for
Who gives a ***** about this hypothetical God *****?
You're in the real world now.
what it was created for, it will be completely pleasurable and free from
sin. It becomes them expressing their true love for eachother as well as
their love for God for uniting them as one body. To remove it from that is
lust.
Don't be so fucking stupid.
-RS
.
|
|
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| User: "Steve O" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 04:35:59 PM |
|
|
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:788b515rg667e31i1gu6odec6ilguil36u@4ax.com...
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:51:37 -0400, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
what it was created for, it will be completely pleasurable and free from
sin. It becomes them expressing their true love for eachother as well as
their love for God for uniting them as one body. To remove it from that
is
lust.
Don't be so fucking stupid.
-RS
Are you sure you're not just feeding a troll here, Christopher?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 04:44:11 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:35:59 +0100, "Steve O" <stoboyle@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:788b515rg667e31i1gu6odec6ilguil36u@4ax.com...
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:51:37 -0400, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
what it was created for, it will be completely pleasurable and free from
sin. It becomes them expressing their true love for eachother as well as
their love for God for uniting them as one body. To remove it from that
is
lust.
Don't be so fucking stupid.
-RS
Are you sure you're not just feeding a troll here, Christopher?
I don't know. I've met loonies crazier than him in the real world.
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Apr 2005 12:22:15 AM |
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RS wrote:
"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3bl4juF6g6rlsU1@individual.net...
I didn't mean taking lessons from you, I don't know you. I mean taking
lessons from priests who have been brought up to be celibate and deny
themselves all forms of sexuality and sexual gratification. What do
celibate virgins know about sex?
They know what God revealed to them.
Why? Explain why it is a wonderful act and part of God's will when done in
a marriage and yet thoroughly selfish, evil, hedonistic sin of the flesh
inspired by the devil when done with a loving partner you have not
married. Give me the full explanation. It isn't at all clear to me why sex
outside a marriage should always be considered something evil. Did you
feel you were being wicked when you had sex? Did you detect the presence
of satanic forces making you do the dirty deed?
1) If you are not married to a woman, she doesn't have a union with you. A
man who has sexual intercourse with a woman who isn't his wife commits the
sin of adultery. A woman who has sexual intercourse with a man who isn't
her husband commits adultery. Her body belongs to God, not to you. When
you are married and become one body, one flesh, then it is right. Until
then, it is wrong.
2) The funny thing about deception from Satan is that for the most part, it
doesn't feel wrong. Sex feels right if done with someone you love.
Regardless, I made the choice to sin and I confessed those sins. Even if it
feels right, if you are not married and the girl is not your wife or the man
not your husband, it is sinful. All sin is the absence from God. God is
all good and all loving. Anything that exists in the absence of Him is
evil.
Having sex when you want to (according to your God-given nature?) is a sin
of lust whereas having sex when the Pope's chart says you probably won't
fall pregnant (no money back, no guarantee, don't sue us we're immune) is
a loving act? That needs some explaining, and something rather better than
the usual blather about mysterious ways or us mere mortals being too
stupid to understand.
Your ignorance shines. NFP isn't a system developed by the Pope. It is a
system supported by the Catholic Church as a chaste way of approaching
marriage. Sexual intercourse between a man and a wife exists for three
reasons: 1) Procreation 2) worship 3) Passion. Being closed to life removes
it from God and if it is removed from God, it is mere lust rather than
passion.
Is the difference between lust and passion like the difference between
liberty and licence, or between having liberties and taking them?
The difference between lust and passion is that lust occurs when the act is
removed from God. If a man and his wife unite in sexual intercourse for
what it was created for, it will be completely pleasurable and free from
sin. It becomes them expressing their true love for eachother as well as
their love for God for uniting them as one body. To remove it from that is
lust.
-RS
Amusingly, since there's strictly no evidence for god or gods, your
arguments crumble under the weight of history. Adultery, teenage sex,
sex before marriage, homosexual sex, orgies, pedophilia, incest, etc.,
happened since the dawn of humanity, and will continue to happen every
day, in almost every country.
BTW, read your bible! It describes how incest was the divine engine of
reproduction!
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "Martin Willett" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 05:54:16 AM |
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wrote:
Sex is a beautiful thing, designed for male/female unions to keep life
going.
It is not to be taken lightly. (not just for fun)
Because of it's creative power, in procreating new life, it is very,
very precious and should not be abused, degraded or made "dirty"
"Keep the marriage bed undefiled"
Anal sex is dirty and dangerous. A major cause of HIV/AIDS.
if people are allowed to freely indulge in the "flesh" in however ways,
and with whoever, it is disastrous! Ruins families, produces diseases
and unwanted babies = abortions, etc.
Anal sex does not cause AIDS, that idea is as scientific as the idea
that anal sex is where lawyers come from.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 08:50:21 AM |
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"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3bkhraF6gurpmU1@individual.net...
harmonybrenda@yahoo.com wrote:
Sex is a beautiful thing, designed for male/female unions to keep life
going.
It is not to be taken lightly. (not just for fun)
Because of it's creative power, in procreating new life, it is very,
very precious and should not be abused, degraded or made "dirty"
"Keep the marriage bed undefiled"
Anal sex is dirty and dangerous. A major cause of HIV/AIDS.
if people are allowed to freely indulge in the "flesh" in however ways,
and with whoever, it is disastrous! Ruins families, produces diseases
and unwanted babies = abortions, etc.
Anal sex does not cause AIDS, that idea is as scientific as the idea that
anal sex is where lawyers come from.
Last time I checked, sodomy was one of the most legitimate ways HIV/AIDS was
spread... What dobri should have been more specific about was "It is a
major pathway for the spread of the HIV virus."
The fact of the matter is that when people have promiscuous sex, they take
the risk. If a husband and a wife are married and neither of them have the
virus and both of them are loyal, they cannot get the virus (unless the odd
accident of a blood-to-blood tranfusion in a hospital or in treating someone
who is bleeding). Outside of marriage, the safest way of avoiding
contracting this virus is not to have sexual intercourse. Even the
all-glorified condom can't protect you completely. "Condoms prevent AIDS!
The Church teaches against condoms! The Church is evil!" cries those who are
lost to the world. Fact is condoms break, condoms have holes, condoms fail.
They are 99% effective in preventing pregnancy if they don't break... the
HIV virus is much smaller than a sperm cell. Take a hint. Heck, you buy
the wrong condom and it is 0% effective in preventing the spread of HIV.
Think about it.
The way God tells us to end this disease is simple: Do not have sexual
intercourse with anyone outside of marriage. If you have the virus, do not
have sexual intercourse PERIOD.
Throwing condoms into the mix is like trying to stop a flood with napkins.
Rather, God's plan will cause God to come down here himself and stop the
flood permanently. Those who have the disease will die in peace, knowing
that they didn't risk the life of anyone else. Families will be repaired,
husband and wife will be strong again, divorce rates will drop, STD's in
general (ALL STD's will stop spreading like wildfire). HIV/AIDS will crash
and burn. There will always be the few cases. The few people who can't
listen. For the most part, those who contract this virus aren't bad people.
Most are good people who ran into a bit of bad luck because of their
mistakes. The Church teaches people to watch their actions and avoid
mistakes. If someone dedicates themselves to a chaste life until marriage,
they will have zero risk of infection. That is a fact.
Sodomy is a highway to which the AIDS virus spreads. Intercourse is as
well, as is oral sex (the virus is transmitted, but no known infections have
resulted from oral sex alone). The key to preventing the pandemic that
HIV/AIDS has become is simple: avoid the medium of transfer. It's that
simple. It is like putting out a forest fire. You very well know that the
fire will burn out on its own, destroying the whole forest. Rather, you can
clear the brush a few miles ahead of the fire so it can't spread. When it
reaches the point that you have cleared, there is no medium to burn and the
fire burns itself out, preserving the majority of the forest.
AIDS/HIV is the fire. Humans are the kindling. If we can teach those who
are infected to be celibate and those who aren't to avoid sexual contact
until marriage, the fire cannot reach anyone else.
-RS
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