| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Martin Willett" |
| Date: |
07 Apr 2005 10:15:19 AM |
| Object: |
Catholics kill babies |
What is the problem with the Catholic church saying:
1 ] Sex in marriage is wonderful
2 ] Sex outside marriage is always a sin
3 ] The church requires married couples not to use "artificial" birth
control devices.
4 ] Condoms prevent the spread of AIDS
There is no inconsistency at all in those views. Condoms could be used
by married couples who have AIDS. Condoms could be used by "sinners".
In what possible way is wearing a condom more of a sin than prostitution?
The church knows people are sinners and will sin, do sin. So what is so
wrong in allowing those sinners to sin in (comparative) safety and
without putting other people's lives at risk?
Having condoms available makes "the sin of artificial birth control"
more possible, but having kitchen knives makes murder more possible, it
is a rather flabby bit of reasoning. Driving while drunk is a crime and
a sin but the church does not forbid either alcohol or cars. Surely
condoms could be available to those who cannot avoid the sins of
promiscuity without it forcing good Catholics into "the sin of
artificial birth control".
There is no moral excuse for the Catholic Church's open hostility to
condom use by people who are already flouting the Church's teachings.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
11 Apr 2005 08:11:21 AM |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:15:19 +0100 in alt.atheism, Martin Willett
(Martin Willett <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
What is the problem with the Catholic church saying:
1 ] Sex in marriage is wonderful
2 ] Sex outside marriage is always a sin
3 ] The church requires married couples not to use "artificial" birth
control devices.
4 ] Condoms prevent the spread of AIDS
There is no inconsistency at all in those views. Condoms could be used
by married couples who have AIDS. Condoms could be used by "sinners".
Yes, you'd have thought that from an RCC perspective the principle of
double effect would come into play here, particularly with respect to
married couples but, alas, apparently not.
For those that don't know "double effect" is the idea that your
intention to a large or at least to some degree, determines whether
what you do is sinful, or not.
But this is a very complex area of RCC theology/ethics, and perhaps
someone more skilled and knowledgeable that I can post something about
this from an informed RCC perspective.
For myself, I would have thought that if I have AIDS (say from a
contaminated blood transfusion) and wear a condom with the primary
intention of protecting my "legitimate" sexual partner from AIDS and
the secondary effect is to prevent the transmission of new life then
that's acceptable. Or should be.
Or suppose I'm a woman whose husband had sex with infected people, got
AIDS, infected me, and I remarry following his death. Could my new
husband legitimately use a condom from an RCC perspective? Indeed,
could I legitimately marry given that to consummate the marriage and
continue to make love in the terms the RCC sees as "legitimate" would
effectively be giving my husband a death sentence?
In what possible way is wearing a condom more of a sin than prostitution?
Ah well, one imagines that some people think that sin must have its
price, even if they have to arrange it themselves.
The church knows people are sinners and will sin, do sin. So what is so
wrong in allowing those sinners to sin in (comparative) safety and
without putting other people's lives at risk?
But the argument would presumably be that this wouldn't be so much
acknowledging that people sin, but encouraging sin.
Having condoms available makes "the sin of artificial birth control"
more possible, but having kitchen knives makes murder more possible, it
is a rather flabby bit of reasoning. Driving while drunk is a crime and
a sin but the church does not forbid either alcohol or cars. Surely
condoms could be available to those who cannot avoid the sins of
promiscuity without it forcing good Catholics into "the sin of
artificial birth control".
There is no moral excuse for the Catholic Church's open hostility to
condom use by people who are already flouting the Church's teachings.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
11 Apr 2005 10:10:18 PM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:11:21 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:15:19 +0100 in alt.atheism, Martin Willett
(Martin Willett <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
What is the problem with the Catholic church saying:
1 ] Sex in marriage is wonderful
2 ] Sex outside marriage is always a sin
3 ] The church requires married couples not to use "artificial" birth
control devices.
4 ] Condoms prevent the spread of AIDS
There is no inconsistency at all in those views. Condoms could be used
by married couples who have AIDS. Condoms could be used by "sinners".
Yes, you'd have thought that from an RCC perspective the principle of
double effect would come into play here, particularly with respect to
married couples but, alas, apparently not.
For those that don't know "double effect" is the idea that your
intention to a large or at least to some degree, determines whether
what you do is sinful, or not.
But this is a very complex area of RCC theology/ethics,
Ethics? Objective supporting evidence they've got the faintest clue
as to what ethics are?
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Rodney Kelp" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 09:52:35 PM |
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"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3bkfi9F6gu754U1@individual.net...
What is the problem with the Catholic church saying:
1 ] Sex in marriage is wonderful
2 ] Sex outside marriage is also wonderful
3 ] The church requires married couples not to use "artificial" birth
control devices. So use "real mand made" birth control.
4 ] Condoms prevent the spread of AIDS
You can't get aids from your partner if they don't have it.
doms could be used
by married couples who have AIDS. Condoms could be used by "sinners".
In what possible way is wearing a condom more of a sin than prostitution?
The church knows people are sinners and will sin, do sin. So what is so
wrong in allowing those sinners to sin in (comparative) safety and without
putting other people's lives at risk?
Having condoms available makes "the sin of artificial birth control" more
possible, but having kitchen knives makes murder more possible, it is a
rather flabby bit of reasoning. Driving while drunk is a crime and a sin
but the church does not forbid either alcohol or cars. Surely condoms
could be available to those who cannot avoid the sins of promiscuity
without it forcing good Catholics into "the sin of artificial birth
control".
There is no moral excuse for the Catholic Church's open hostility to
condom use by people who are already flouting the Church's teachings.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
.
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 01:37:40 PM |
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"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3bkfi9F6gu754U1@individual.net...
What is the problem with the Catholic church saying:
1 ] Sex in marriage is wonderful
2 ] Sex outside marriage is always a sin
3 ] The church requires married couples not to use "artificial" birth
control devices.
4 ] Condoms prevent the spread of AIDS
There is no inconsistency at all in those views. Condoms could be used by
married couples who have AIDS. Condoms could be used by "sinners".
In what possible way is wearing a condom more of a sin than prostitution?
The church knows people are sinners and will sin, do sin. So what is so
wrong in allowing those sinners to sin in (comparative) safety and without
putting other people's lives at risk?
Having condoms available makes "the sin of artificial birth control" more
possible, but having kitchen knives makes murder more possible, it is a
rather flabby bit of reasoning. Driving while drunk is a crime and a sin
but the church does not forbid either alcohol or cars. Surely condoms
could be available to those who cannot avoid the sins of promiscuity
without it forcing good Catholics into "the sin of artificial birth
control".
There is no moral excuse for the Catholic Church's open hostility to
condom use by people who are already flouting the Church's teachings.
What is immoral is the world's take against Catholic creed. If you don't
agree with it, don't take it up with the Church, take it up with God. God
offered us a plan to end disease, end divorce, end meaningless sexual lust.
Only have sex with your husband or wife. Do not use artificial
contraception, it is a disgrace to the gift of life. Married couples that
involve one spouse having AIDS should not engage in sexual intercourse. If
the spouse who is infected would risk the health of his wife or her husband,
then that spouse is being selfish and lust-driven. Passion involves keeping
free from harm the person you love. The responsibility of the husband,
also, is to ensure the spiritual welfare of his wife. Lust-sin on part of
the husband is the worst way to destroy that responsibility.
Wearing a condom is being closed to the gift of life.
Prostitution is adultery. They are two different sins. Though the world
says prostitution is worse, both are a disgrace and bring sadness to God.
If a person is going to sleep with a prostitute, they are already doing
something wrong so they might as well wear a condom. They would have two
things to confess to God. "I committed adultery... but I was safe while
doing so..." There is no such thing as "smart sin". There is only sin. It
is stupid, it is immoral... it is against the greater glory of God.
The Catholic Church teaches against the over-indulgence of alcohol.
Drinking alcohol and getting drunk are two different things. Getting drunk
is a sin of gluttony. Driving while drunk is a mortal sin, risking the
welfare of yourself and others.
The only moral excuse we need is that God, the source of all morality, gave
us this truth. Take it up with Him. If a person is flouting the Catholic
Church's teachings against artificial contraception, then that person is
against the truth of God and mocking God. The Church doesn't speak to those
people. The Church speaks to those who have an open mind and heart. Don't
be quick, either, to reduce it to just an issue of condoms. The Church
teaches against artificial contraception: the pill, the path, the shot,
condoms, diaphrams, caps, spermicides, surguries rendering a man or a woman
infertile, etc. etc. All of these are sin, some more permanent than others.
Be open to life. Sleep only with your spouse and no one else. It isn't
that complicated. If the world listened to this truth from God, families
would be stronger, this society wouldn't be nearly as corrupt as it is, and
sexual disease would vanish.
If you have an uncurable sexual disease, do not sleep with anyone for the
duration of your life. A vow of celibacy is a respectable way of assuring
that you do not risk the life of someone you care for. To openly take that
risk is selfish and utterly evil... to put one moment of insignificant
pleasure over the welfare of a person you care about (or don't care about)
is wrong and you know it. Selfish and evil. "I want to have an orgasm, I
am going to risk infecting this person with a deadly disease so I can have
one..." In what society is that moral? Not God's society. In the kingdom
of God that doesn't stand. Only of the world, only of the plains of demons
is that acceptable. To God it is destructive and violent, meant to distract
from the glory of His creation.
-RS
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 05:59:52 PM |
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"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:d33d3s$gj4$1@news3.bu.edu...
snip
What is immoral is the world's take against Catholic creed. If you don't
agree with it, don't take it up with the Church, take it up with God.
Or ignore it completely as you don't happen to believe in god(s).
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Alison" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 02:24:58 PM |
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In <d33d3s$gj4$1@news3.bu.edu> RS wrote:
Married couples that
involve one spouse having AIDS should not engage in sexual intercourse. If
the spouse who is infected would risk the health of his wife or her husband,
then that spouse is being selfish and lust-driven. Passion involves keeping
free from harm the person you love. The responsibility of the husband,
also, is to ensure the spiritual welfare of his wife. Lust-sin on part of
the husband is the worst way to destroy that responsibility.
Well, yes, but this is a very real problem for women in Africa right now.
Hubby strays away from home, has sex with another woman. Hubby then proceeds
to infect his wife with HIV. Now, what exactly is she supposed to do? Say,
"you're responsible for my spiritual welfare", as he demands sex? Hm?
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Urgent_Action/apic-081703.html
http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/develop/africa/2002/1229kofi.htm
Wearing a condom is being closed to the gift of life.
Not wearing a condom can bring death to innocent women. Is this what 'God'
wants?
[other weirdness snipped]
-- Ali
PS - to the original poster; nice troll. You chose a good cross-section of
opposing groups, put your viewpoint out there & hooked a number of suckers ...
including me! :-)
.
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 02:43:01 PM |
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"Alison" <cooties@mac[spam].com> wrote in message
news:20050407152456385+0100@news.supernews.com...
In <d33d3s$gj4$1@news3.bu.edu> RS wrote:
Married couples that
involve one spouse having AIDS should not engage in sexual intercourse.
If
the spouse who is infected would risk the health of his wife or her
husband,
then that spouse is being selfish and lust-driven. Passion involves
keeping
free from harm the person you love. The responsibility of the husband,
also, is to ensure the spiritual welfare of his wife. Lust-sin on part
of
the husband is the worst way to destroy that responsibility.
Well, yes, but this is a very real problem for women in Africa right now.
Hubby strays away from home, has sex with another woman. Hubby then
proceeds
to infect his wife with HIV. Now, what exactly is she supposed to do? Say,
"you're responsible for my spiritual welfare", as he demands sex? Hm?
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Urgent_Action/apic-081703.html
http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/develop/africa/2002/1229kofi.htm
Wearing a condom is being closed to the gift of life.
Not wearing a condom can bring death to innocent women. Is this what 'God'
wants?
[other weirdness snipped]
-- Ali
Alison, here's what you are failing to see: This plan that God offers is all
or none. It is either all useful or open to death. God's will is one-sided
and that side is life.
It is unforunate that women are innocently infected because of this fact,
but the sin is the culprit (not God). I am speaking, however, to the
western world. An army can't be tackled head on. Rather, take it out where
it is weakest and you weaken the whole force. The sexual revolution is the
enemy and the Catholic Church is the army of God. Attack this disease in
the first-world countries and through a process of education and prevention,
tackle it in third world countries. The worst thing is that the majority of
those in these countries cannot afford testing. What is worse is that a
husband would be as selfish and evil to cheat on his wife and then bring
this disease home.
Throwing condoms at them, however, isn't the solution. God's solution is
the solution. We just have to implement it according to His will.
-RS
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| User: "Alison" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 07:10:32 PM |
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In <d33guc$75a$1@news3.bu.edu> RS wrote:
"Alison" <cooties@mac[spam].com> wrote in message
news:20050407152456385+0100@news.supernews.com...
In <d33d3s$gj4$1@news3.bu.edu> RS wrote:
Married couples that
involve one spouse having AIDS should not engage in sexual intercourse.
If
the spouse who is infected would risk the health of his wife or her
husband,
then that spouse is being selfish and lust-driven. Passion involves
keeping
free from harm the person you love. The responsibility of the husband,
also, is to ensure the spiritual welfare of his wife. Lust-sin on part
of
the husband is the worst way to destroy that responsibility.
Well, yes, but this is a very real problem for women in Africa right now.
Hubby strays away from home, has sex with another woman. Hubby then
proceeds
to infect his wife with HIV. Now, what exactly is she supposed to do? Say,
"you're responsible for my spiritual welfare", as he demands sex? Hm?
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Urgent_Action/apic-081703.html
http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/develop/africa/2002/1229kofi.htm
Wearing a condom is being closed to the gift of life.
Not wearing a condom can bring death to innocent women. Is this what 'God'
wants?
[other weirdness snipped]
-- Ali
Alison, here's what you are failing to see: This plan that God offers is all
or none. It is either all useful or open to death. God's will is one-sided
and that side is life.
Then your god is a monster. QED.
It is unforunate that women are innocently infected because of this fact,
but the sin is the culprit (not God).
Complete nonsense. HIV, their wayward husbands and silly Catholic propaganda
are the culprits. Tell your church to quit lying & then we can deal with
protecting these women in whatever way we can.
[God-soaked foolishness snipped]
Throwing condoms at them, however, isn't the solution. God's solution is
the solution. We just have to implement it according to His will.
Condoms may stop them dying & that's good enough for me.
-RS
-- Ali
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| User: "Martin Willett" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 02:42:55 PM |
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Alison wrote:
PS - to the original poster; nice troll. You chose a good cross-section of
opposing groups, put your viewpoint out there & hooked a number of suckers ...
including me! :-)
Thank you. It is always good to have one's efforts appreciated.
http://www.mwillett.org/troll.htm
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
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| User: "Alison" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 07:13:36 PM |
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In <3bkv80F6jjf3cU1@individual.net> Martin Willett wrote:
Alison wrote:
PS - to the original poster; nice troll. You chose a good cross-section of
opposing groups, put your viewpoint out there & hooked a number of suckers ...
including me! :-)
Thank you. It is always good to have one's efforts appreciated.
http://www.mwillett.org/troll.htm
You're welcome, Martin. It's been an interesting thread with somewhat
predictable results, and an interesting treatise on trolling. :-)
-- Ali
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| User: "Martin Willett" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 07:48:58 PM |
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Alison wrote:
In <3bkv80F6jjf3cU1@individual.net> Martin Willett wrote:
Alison wrote:
PS - to the original poster; nice troll. You chose a good cross-section of
opposing groups, put your viewpoint out there & hooked a number of suckers ...
including me! :-)
Thank you. It is always good to have one's efforts appreciated.
http://www.mwillett.org/troll.htm
You're welcome, Martin. It's been an interesting thread with somewhat
predictable results, and an interesting treatise on trolling. :-)
-- Ali
Trolling is almost as much fun as masturbation and probably just as
misunderstood.
I can't make a case for it preventing prostate cancer though but I'm
pretty sure it has never sent anybody blind, stunted their growth,
impaired their performance at football or caused hair to grow on the
palms of their hands.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
07 Apr 2005 08:00:54 PM |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:48:58 +0100 in alt.atheism, Martin Willett
(Martin Willett <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
Alison wrote:
In <3bkv80F6jjf3cU1@individual.net> Martin Willett wrote:
Alison wrote:
PS - to the original poster; nice troll. You chose a good cross-section of
opposing groups, put your viewpoint out there & hooked a number of suckers ...
including me! :-)
Thank you. It is always good to have one's efforts appreciated.
http://www.mwillett.org/troll.htm
You're welcome, Martin. It's been an interesting thread with somewhat
predictable results, and an interesting treatise on trolling. :-)
-- Ali
Trolling is almost as much fun as masturbation and probably just as
misunderstood.
I can't make a case for it preventing prostate cancer though but I'm
pretty sure it has never sent anybody blind, stunted their growth,
impaired their performance at football or caused hair to grow on the
palms of their hands.
Heh. What about high blood pressure?
.
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 12:36:01 AM |
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In article <d33d3s$gj4$1@news3.bu.edu>, RS said...
Wearing a condom is being closed to the gift of life.
How amazing that the almighty master of the cosmos can be foiled
in his gift-giving by a few microns of latex. :)
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 12:56:37 AM |
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"Brian E. Clark" <reply@newsgroup.only.please> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d096ff9f975c992989aaa@news.comcast.giganews.com...
In article <d33d3s$gj4$1@news3.bu.edu>, RS said...
Wearing a condom is being closed to the gift of life.
How amazing that the almighty master of the cosmos can be foiled
in his gift-giving by a few microns of latex. :)
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church! I stress I am not making
anything up when I say that I heard a 'distinguished' Catholic theologian on
TV, about 20 years ago, passionately insisting that 'medical contraception
was wrong' whereas 'natural contraception, in the form of the so-called
rthtythytmm method' was right. When he was challenged by the programme's
presenter to explain *why* a 'deliberate attempt to prevent conception by
the use of a drug to greatly extend the non-fertile period' was *wrong* when
the 'deliberate, exclusive use, without drugs, of the naturally non-fertile
period' was *right*, his explanation was as follows: he said that the
'rhtytyhyhthythm method' was okay because it *wasn't* actually 'use of the
non-fertile period' -- it was, he said, simply 'non-use of the fertile
period' ... and *what could be wrong with that*...? How could simply 'not
having sex' part of the time, ever be *wrong*...?
I learned something about priestly mendacity that day, I can tell you!!
Katt.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 07:13:34 AM |
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On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:56:37 GMT in
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Katt ("Katt"
<seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
"Brian E. Clark" <reply@newsgroup.only.please> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d096ff9f975c992989aaa@news.comcast.giganews.com...
In article <d33d3s$gj4$1@news3.bu.edu>, RS said...
Wearing a condom is being closed to the gift of life.
How amazing that the almighty master of the cosmos can be foiled
in his gift-giving by a few microns of latex. :)
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church! I stress I am not making
anything up when I say that I heard a 'distinguished' Catholic theologian on
TV, about 20 years ago, passionately insisting that 'medical contraception
was wrong' whereas 'natural contraception, in the form of the so-called
rthtythytmm method' was right. When he was challenged by the programme's
presenter to explain *why* a 'deliberate attempt to prevent conception by
the use of a drug to greatly extend the non-fertile period' was *wrong* when
the 'deliberate, exclusive use, without drugs, of the naturally non-fertile
period' was *right*, his explanation was as follows: he said that the
'rhtytyhyhthythm method' was okay because it *wasn't* actually 'use of the
non-fertile period' -- it was, he said, simply 'non-use of the fertile
period' ... and *what could be wrong with that*...? How could simply 'not
having sex' part of the time, ever be *wrong*...?
I learned something about priestly mendacity that day, I can tell you!!
I understand the rhythm method is ok because it doesn't work.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 01:05:48 AM |
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"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is merely
abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
BAM
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 07:15:13 AM |
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On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:05:48 -0400 in
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, bam ("bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is merely
abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
Depends on the circumstances? Unilateral abstinence within marriage
would be wrong, for instance, I presume.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 02:00:42 PM |
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In article <lp00a19gm778c6lgkeu4q2scmuh837erla@4ax.com>,
autodelete@city-of-dis.com says...
On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:05:48 -0400 in
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, bam ("bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is merely
abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
Depends on the circumstances? Unilateral abstinence within marriage
would be wrong, for instance, I presume.
Yes, actually the church only created more problems for themselves by
saying that sex has both a "unitive" and "procreative" aspect in
marriage. Now that means that if one party decides to abstain that it
could be interpreted as threatening the "unity" of marriage. So during
the "fertile time" that couples abstain from sex to use the "rhythm
method", they are undermining their marriage with he church's blessing.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 01:31:57 AM |
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"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart enough
to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church' likes the so-called
'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they can't get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then *they're
finished* -- and *they know it*...!
Katt.
.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 12:48:57 PM |
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"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote in message
news:hqOne.4990$hT6.3339@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart
enough to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church' likes the
so-called 'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they can't get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're finished* -- and *they know it*...!
The Devil applauds his little colostomy bag.
BAM
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 01:01:30 PM |
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"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:ijYne.51617$6k7.13079@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote in message
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they can't
get their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're finished* -- and *they know it*...!
The Devil applauds his little colostomy bag.
You see what these people are really like? Such love! Such *kindness*!! You
can all tell, can't you, just how much they *yearn* to go back to the time
when they could just *kill* anyone they couldn't convert...??
Well, *yesterday's religion* can't do nuttin' like that no mo'...!!
Katt.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
06 Jun 2005 03:26:15 AM |
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On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 13:01:30 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:ijYne.51617$6k7.13079@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote in message
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they can't
get their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're finished* -- and *they know it*...!
The Devil applauds his little colostomy bag.
You see what these people are really like?
Fundies are scum of the earth.
Sch love! Such *kindness*!! You
can all tell, can't you, just how much they *yearn* to go back to the time
when they could just *kill* anyone they couldn't convert...??
If the fundies want to slaughter each other-bust a nut. There isn't a
self-described Christian on the planet that would escape execution for
biblical violations.
Well, *yesterday's religion* can't do nuttin' like that no mo'...!!
Yes, but the American Taliban are working on that.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "• R. L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 05:20:37 PM |
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In article <ijYne.51617$6k7.13079@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote in message
news:hqOne.4990$hT6.3339@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart
enough to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church' likes the
so-called 'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they can't get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're finished* -- and *they know it*...!
The Devil applauds his little colostomy bag.
** Congrats on pissing her off, Katt.
--
Rich. 805.386.3734
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
06 Jun 2005 03:26:50 AM |
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On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:20:37 -0700, (• R. L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <ijYne.51617$6k7.13079@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote in message
news:hqOne.4990$hT6.3339@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart
enough to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church' likes the
so-called 'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they can't get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're finished* -- and *they know it*...!
The Devil applauds his little colostomy bag.
** Congrats on pissing her off, Katt.
Her?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "• R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
06 Jun 2005 02:44:53 PM |
|
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In article <jjg7a1djooh4kj95t3kjvvh3cdpoh0lmn6@4ax.com>, stoney
<stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:20:37 -0700, (• R. L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <ijYne.51617$6k7.13079@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote in message
news:hqOne.4990$hT6.3339@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the
so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart
enough to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church'
likes the
so-called 'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they
can't get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're finished* -- and *they know it*...!
The Devil applauds his little colostomy bag.
** Congrats on pissing her off, Katt.
Her?
• HIM?
--
Rich. 805.386.3734
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
06 Jun 2005 02:50:28 PM |
|
|
• R. L. Measures wrote:
In article <jjg7a1djooh4kj95t3kjvvh3cdpoh0lmn6@4ax.com>, stoney
<stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:20:37 -0700, (• R. L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <ijYne.51617$6k7.13079@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote in message
news:hqOne.4990$hT6.3339@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the
so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart
enough to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church'
likes the
so-called 'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they
can't get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're finished* -- and *they know it*...!
The Devil applauds his little colostomy bag.
** Congrats on pissing her off, Katt.
Her?
• HIM?
I thought Gozer was a man...
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
08 Jun 2005 12:48:18 AM |
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On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:50:28 GMT, DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com>
wrote:
• R. L. Measures wrote:
In article <jjg7a1djooh4kj95t3kjvvh3cdpoh0lmn6@4ax.com>, stoney
<stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:20:37 -0700, (• R. L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <ijYne.51617$6k7.13079@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote in message
news:hqOne.4990$hT6.3339@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the
so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart
enough to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church'
likes the
so-called 'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they
can't get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're finished* -- and *they know it*...!
The Devil applauds his little colostomy bag.
** Congrats on pissing her off, Katt.
Her?
• HIM?
I thought Gozer was a man...
Nope. It's an unspanked toddler.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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|
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| User: "• R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
03 Jun 2005 10:27:06 AM |
|
|
In article <hqOne.4990$hT6.3339@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, "Katt"
<seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote:
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart enough
to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church' likes the so-called
'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they can't get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then *they're
finished* -- and *they know it*...!
** ... and the education the young are getting on the ***** Internet is
their worst nemesis. For example, what Internet-savvy 11 yr old
heterosexual boy would seek to become an altar-boy?
cheerz, Katt.
--
Rich. 805.386.3734
.
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| User: "Behold Clayton...The Anti-Jeebus!!" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
04 Jun 2005 12:49:04 AM |
|
|
". R. L. Measures" <_r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:_r-0306050327060001@66-52-38-229.lsan.dock.net...
In article <hqOne.4990$hT6.3339@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, "Katt"
<seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote:
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the
so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart
enough
to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church' likes the
so-called
'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they can't
get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're
finished* -- and *they know it*...!
** ... and the education the young are getting on the ***** Internet is
their worst nemesis. For example, what Internet-savvy 11 yr old
heterosexual boy would seek to become an altar-boy?
I don't think the homosexual ones would want to become one either! They
wouldn't want to be abused by an old priest either!
.
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| User: "• R. L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics kill babies |
04 Jun 2005 12:25:15 PM |
|
|
In article <42a0fa42$0$16857$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Behold
Clayton...The Anti-Jeebus!!" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote:
". R. L. Measures" <_r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:_r-0306050327060001@66-52-38-229.lsan.dock.net...
In article <hqOne.4990$hT6.3339@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, "Katt"
<seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote:
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:KWNne.53411$CR5.35255@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote
Even more amazing is the way 'He' appears to be fooled by the
so-called
'rhtythym method' beloved by the Catholic Church!
Of course being a textbook Jackass you wouldn't see that "rhythm" is
merely abstinence and there's nothing wrong with abstinence.
A textbook jackass? Well, maybe so: I might be reading all the wrong
textbooks. But somehow I'm *still* smart enough not to be fooled by the
*dishonest little word games* you sad people play -- and *also* smart
enough
to see that the *real* reason your fascist scum 'church' likes the
so-called
'rhythm method' is simply this: *it doesn't fucking work*...!
Ladies and gentlemen: I give you *yesterday's religion*! If they can't
get
their filthy hands on the young, the uneducated, and the mad, then
*they're
finished* -- and *they know it*...!
** ... and the education the young are getting on the ***** Internet is
their worst nemesis. For example, what Internet-savvy 11 yr old
heterosexual boy would seek to become an altar-boy?
I don't think the homosexual ones would want to become one either! They
wouldn't want to be abused by an old priest either!
** What if the priest is say in his mid-20s and the boy already realizes
that he is not attracted to girls?
--
Rich. 805.386.3734
.
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