Religions > Atheism > Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
18 Mar 2007 07:19:30 PM |
| Object: |
Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
Vatican Prelate: Catholics will "do everything possible" to prevent
Homosexual Civil Unions
LifeSiteNews ^ | 3/12/07 | Gudrun Schultz
Posted on 03/12/2007 5:22:07 PM PDT by wagglebee
VATICAN CITY, March 12, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Legislation
permitting de facto and same-sex unions would be so damaging to family
life and society that Catholics will do "everything possible" to
ensure the laws do not pass, the head of the Pontifical Academy for
Life said last week.
"Catholics will do everything to shed light on the debate, and will do
everything possible so that these proposals will not pass," said
Bishop Elio Sgreccia, during a press conference at Vatican Radio.
"Everything based on untruths is destined to damage someone, if not
many people."
Zenit News Agency reported March 7 on Bishop Sgreccia comments at the
Rome launch of a book on the issue by Carlo Casini, a European
Parliamentary member representing Italy. Casini's book was titled
"Unioni di fatto, matrimonio, figli: tra ideologia e realt=E0" (De Facto
Unions, Marriage, Children: Between Ideology and Facts), published in
Italian by Societ=E0 Editrice Fiorentina.
Bishop Sgreccia said the Church's objections to de facto unions simply
upheld laws established by international and national legislation,
recognizing the family as the foundation of human society. The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said.
Homosexual unions would go "against a law of nature," he said, since
"in the corporality of man and woman there is written natural and
structural complementarity pertaining to emotional life, sexual life
and the procreation of children."
"Natural law expresses the good sense" of that union between a man and
a woman, Bishop Sgreccia said.
Further, the family is essential for economic health and social
progress.
"If we wish to see an economy that has as its main unit family health,
then we must take into account that the de facto families,
constitutionally precarious, are the source, as well as divorce and
separations, of social and economic instability."
Far from encouraging the establishment of de facto unions, "the state
would do well in helping youth by teaching them the formation of a
true family, with a civic or religious marriage, but stable, and with
an eased access to house and work."
"This is where the money should be spent," said the bishop, "and not
creating marital precariousness."
Permitting legal unions apart from marriage injures young people by
"placing them in a situation that does not give security, that does
not give stability or serenity."
At the same time, legalizing homosexual unions does not address the
real needs of people dealing with same-sex attraction, the bishop
said.
"[G]ay pride certainly does not help them in overcoming their
suffering, which instead must be faced with human understanding, with
medical and psychological sciences, and with promotional attitudes of
all the good qualities that exist in these persons."
See related LifeSiteNews coverage:
Vatican Bishop: Humanity Heading for "Self-Genocide"
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jan/07012607.html
Bishop Sgreccia Named President of Pontifical Academy For Life
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jan/05010308.html
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 08:35:12 PM |
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On Mar 19, 5:22 pm, wrote:
On Mar 19, 12:51 pm, "Mark Sebree" <seb...@infionline.net> wrote:
On Mar 19, 4:26 pm, "John D.Wentzky" <johndwent...@alumni.furman.edu>
wrote:
Innews:1174332579.006609.57910@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
thomas p. <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> typed:
On 19 Mar., 17:40, "John D.Wentzky" <johndwent...@alumni.furman.edu>
wrote:
Innews:1174322257.074547.319270@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
John <dahlgren.j...@gmail.com> typed:
On Mar 18, 11:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net> wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it
states that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit
of society and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
How does Gay Marriage weaken family stability?
Are you saying you are for brothers/cousins, etc entering into
marriage agreements?
Did he even mention brothers/cousins?
He didn't need to.
Nor did you. Nobody ever made the claim that you said was made.
Same-sex marriage is same-sex marriage.
And it is the same things as opposite sex marriages.
No it isn't. Same sex marriages are abnormal by definition.
There is nothing abnormal about same sex marriage.
Unequal privileges are unequal privileges.
And that is what you want, for homosexuals to have less privileges
than heterosexuals. You do not want homosexuals to have equal rights.
it's not necessarily individuals or even religions that mandate that
same-sex marriages are a contradiction in terms.
Yes, it is individuals and religions that mandate this. And they can
be ignored since nobody should be forced to abide by another person's
religious beliefs, and another person cannot force you to live by his
rules.
It is Nature itself
who makes the definitive statement.
And Nature obviously approves of same sex couples since there are on
the order of 1500 species of animals known, including other primates,
that include same sex mating.
Homosexual is not equivalent to heterosexual so it can not be awarded equal
treatment to heterosexual marriage.
This very statements shows clearly that you are proposing that
homosexuals have fewer rights than heterosexuals for no valid reason.
For valid reason.. For the valid reason of their being unable to
create children.
That is not a valid reason. Many, many couples that get married never
produce children. This could be because of age, biological reasons,
previous surgery, or personal choice. However, none of these prevent
these couples from getting married.
Therefore, it is easy to show that your so-called "valid reason" is
invalid and non-existant in reality.
Homosexuals ARE equivalent to heterosexuals because both groups are
groups of human beings.
But humanity is not hermaphroditic... a small oversight on your part.
No oversight on my part. Just your homophobia and bigotry talking.
Homosexuals are equivalent and equal to heterosexuals.
Marriage is the legal joining of two
consenting adults.
Two consenting 'marriageable' adults.
Which means being of legal age, single, consenting to the marriage,
and not be close relatives. There are no other significant valid
criteria needed. The genders of the persons getting married is not an
issue.
In most states 'marriageable' is
defined as man and woman.
And that is what must be changed. That is blatant discrimination
against homosexuals in violation of the 14th Amendment's Equal
Protection clause. Homosexuals do not have the same rights as
heterosexuals for no good and valid reason.
There is no valid reason why two men or two women
cannot get married if they so wish in the same manner and for the same
reasons as a man and a woman.
Go argue with Nature not us.
I do not need to. There are homosexual matings and couples throughout
the Animal Kingdom. You are the one that needs to argue with Nature,
since Nature does not agree with you.
Nature says such 'marriages' are
biological abnormalities.
No, it does not.
Homosexuals should have the same rights
as heterosexuals, and that includes the right to marry the consenting
single person of his or her choice.
Your best bet is to find a socialist society that welcomes the
destruction of the traditional and normal family unit.
Why? That is not what I am proposing. Homosexual marriages will not
affect heterosexual marriages in any way.
Such places are
much more likely to endure biological impossibilities
Which are not being discussed here.
- as they also
seek the destruction of the family unit
Which is not under discussion. The subject is same sex marriages, and
they do not adversely affect families at all.
- by attempting to assume
familial authority and control to their governments.
No idea what you are talking about. The subject is same sex
marriages, not your idle fantasies. Same sex marriages will not
adversely affect families at all.
In your post, you demonstrated that you are indeed a homophobe, and
you support discrimination and denial of equal rights to a segment of
the citizens of the USA for no valid reason.
Mark Sebree
Equal rights is a false flag to attempt to march under.
No, it is not. Everyone is supposed to have the same rights under the
US Constitution. Therefore, Equal Rights is a perfectly valid "flag"
to march under given that is the goal.
There is no law that will ever compel Nature to allow same sex
marriages to produce children.
Marriages are about more than producing children. What's more, you
have no idea what Nature allows. Your post proves this.
'Civil unions' where allowed, should be sufficient for any same-sex
couples anywhere.
No, they should not be. The "separate but equal" doctrine has long
since been shown to not work. There is no logical reason why
homosexuals should not have the same rights as heterosexuals.
Anything less would be a violation of the Equal Protection clause of
the US Constitution.
Just because you are a bigot does not mean that anyone else should be
forced to abide by your irrational ideas and preferences.
For people to try to pretend that they are something - that they are
not - is insanity.
Which is what you are doing. You are pretending that homosexuals are
something that they are not. You are pretending that they are
"subhuman", and thus not entitled to the same rights as
heterosexuals. Thus, by your own admission, your position is
insanity.
Homosexuals are as human, as much people, and much citizens of the USA
are heterosexuals are. Therefore they are entitles to the same rights
and privileges as heterosexuals. Anything less is a violation of
their rights as American citizens.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
20 Mar 2007 05:53:45 AM |
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On Mar 19, 9:35=EF=BF=BDpm, "Mark Sebree" <seb...@infionline.net> wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:22 pm, wrote:
On Mar 19, 12:51 pm, "Mark Sebree" <seb...@infionline.net> wrote:
On Mar 19, 4:26 pm, "John D.Wentzky" <johndwent...@alumni.furman.edu>
wrote:
Innews:1174332579.006609.57910@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
thomas p. <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> typed:
On 19 Mar., 17:40, "John D.Wentzky" <johndwent...@alumni.furman.e=
du>
wrote:
Innews:1174322257.074547.319270@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
John <dahlgren.j...@gmail.com> typed:
On Mar 18, 11:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net> wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it
states that "the family is the natural and fundamental group u=
nit
of society and is entitled to protection by society and the st=
ate."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
How does Gay Marriage weaken family stability?
Are you saying you are for brothers/cousins, etc entering into
marriage agreements?
Did he even mention brothers/cousins?
He didn't need to.
Nor did you. =A0Nobody ever made the claim that you said was made.
Same-sex marriage is same-sex marriage.
And it is the same things as opposite sex marriages.
No it isn't. Same sex marriages are abnormal by definition.
There is nothing abnormal about same sex marriage.
Actually there is. As a practicing Homosexual that services
over 50 men a night at the adult bookstores, I can honestly
say that A.I.D.S is a reality for Gay men.
Unequal privileges are unequal privileges.
And that is what you want, for homosexuals to have less privileges
than heterosexuals. =A0You do not want homosexuals to have equal righ=
ts.
it's not necessarily individuals or even religions that mandate that
same-sex marriages are a contradiction in terms.
Yes, it is individuals and religions that mandate this. =A0And they can
be ignored since nobody should be forced to abide by another person's
religious beliefs, and another person cannot force you to live by his
rules.
It is Nature itself
who makes the definitive statement.
And Nature obviously approves of same sex couples since there are on
the order of 1500 species of animals known, including other primates,
that include same sex mating.
Homosexual is not equivalent to heterosexual so it can not be award=
ed equal
treatment to heterosexual marriage.
This very statements shows clearly that you are proposing that
homosexuals have fewer rights than heterosexuals for no valid reason.
For valid reason.. For the valid reason of their being unable to
create children.
That is not a valid reason. =A0Many, many couples that get married never
produce children. =A0This could be because of age, biological reasons,
previous surgery, or personal choice. =A0However, none of these prevent
these couples from getting married.
Therefore, it is easy to show that your so-called "valid reason" is
invalid and non-existant in reality.
Homosexuals ARE equivalent to heterosexuals because both groups are
groups of human beings. =A0
But humanity is not hermaphroditic... a small oversight on your part.
No oversight on my part. =A0Just your homophobia and bigotry talking.
Homosexuals are equivalent and equal to heterosexuals.
Marriage is the legal joining of two
consenting adults.
Two consenting 'marriageable' adults.
Which means being of legal age, single, consenting to the marriage,
and not be close relatives. =A0There are no other significant valid
criteria needed. =A0The genders of the persons getting married is not an
issue.
In most states 'marriageable' is
defined as man and woman.
And that is what must be changed. =A0That is blatant discrimination
against homosexuals in violation of the 14th Amendment's Equal
Protection clause. =A0Homosexuals do not have the same rights as
heterosexuals for no good and valid reason.
There is no valid reason why two men or two women
cannot get married if they so wish in the same manner and for the same
reasons as a man and a woman. =A0
Go argue with Nature not us.
I do not need to. =A0There are homosexual matings and couples throughout
the Animal Kingdom. =A0You are the one that needs to argue with Nature,
since Nature does not agree with you.
Nature says such 'marriages' are
biological abnormalities.
No, it does not.
Homosexuals should have the same rights
as heterosexuals, and that includes the right to marry the consenting
single person of his or her choice.
Your best bet is to find a socialist society that welcomes the
destruction of the traditional and normal family unit.
Why? =A0That is not what I am proposing. =A0Homosexual marriages will not
affect heterosexual marriages in any way.
Such places are
much more likely to endure biological impossibilities
Which are not being discussed here.
- as they also
seek the destruction of the family unit
Which is not under discussion. =A0The subject is same sex marriages, and
they do not adversely affect families at all.
- by attempting to assume
familial authority and control to their governments.
No idea what you are talking about. =A0The subject is same sex
marriages, not your idle fantasies. =A0Same sex marriages will not
adversely affect families at all.
In your post, you demonstrated that you are indeed a homophobe, and
you support discrimination and denial of equal rights to a segment of
the citizens of the USA for no valid reason.
Mark Sebree
Equal rights is a false flag to attempt to march under.
No, it is not. =A0Everyone is supposed to have the same rights under the
US Constitution. =A0Therefore, Equal Rights is a perfectly valid "flag"
to march under given that is the goal.
There is no law that will ever compel Nature to allow same sex
marriages to produce children.
Marriages are about more than producing children. =A0What's more, you
have no idea what Nature allows. =A0Your post proves this.
'Civil unions' where allowed, should be sufficient for any same-sex
couples anywhere.
No, they should not be. =A0The "separate but equal" doctrine has long
since been shown to not work. =A0There is no logical reason why
homosexuals should not have the same rights as heterosexuals.
Anything less would be a violation of the Equal Protection clause of
the US Constitution.
Just because you are a bigot does not mean that anyone else should be
forced to abide by your irrational ideas and preferences.
For people to try to pretend that they are something - that they are
not - is insanity.
Which is what you are doing. =A0You are pretending that homosexuals are
something that they are not. =A0You are pretending that they are
"subhuman", and thus not entitled to the same rights as
heterosexuals. =A0Thus, by your own admission, your position is
insanity.
Homosexuals are as human, as much people, and much citizens of the USA
are heterosexuals are. =A0Therefore they are entitles to the same rights
and privileges as heterosexuals. =A0Anything less is a violation of
their rights as American citizens.
Mark Sebree- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
20 Mar 2007 03:20:51 PM |
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On Mar 20, 2:53 am, "Andrealphus" <andrealep...@ifrance.com> wrote:
Actually there is. As a practicing Homosexual that services
over 50 men a night at the adult bookstores, I can honestly
say that A.I.D.S is a reality for Gay men.
Eeeew...
And you're not dead yet?
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| User: "Jeff North" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 02:16:48 PM |
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On 19 Mar 2007 09:37:37 -0700, in alt.politics.homosexuality "John"
<dahlgren.john@gmail.com>
<1174322257.074547.319270@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> wrote:
| On Mar 18, 11:38 pm, wrote:
| > On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
| > wrote:
| >
| > >http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
| >
| > "The bishop
| > referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
| > that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
| > and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
| >
| > "If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
| > society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
| >
| > Sounds correct and obvious to me.
|
| How does Gay Marriage weaken family stability?
All those red blooded heterosexual men will turn gay. Just ask Paul
Cameron :-)
http://www.ralliance.org/Cameron.html
Cameron told Rolling Stone magazine in a March 1999 interview that he
feared gay sex would supplant heterosexual sex unless a vigilant
society repressed it. "Marital sex tends toward the boring," he said.
"Generally, it doesn't deliver the kind of sheer sexual pleasure that
homosexual sex does." If all one seeks is an orgasm, he said, "the
evidence is that men do a better job on men, and women on women.
Homosexuality," he said, "seems too powerful to resist."
---------------------------------------------------------------
jnorthau@yourpantsyahoo.com.au : Remove your pants to reply
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| User: "Anlatt the Builder" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
18 Mar 2007 11:58:27 PM |
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On Mar 18, 8:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
Possibly true. But gay marriage does not weaken the stability of
marriage in any way.
.
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| User: "Jeff North" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 01:50:40 AM |
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On 18 Mar 2007 21:58:27 -0700, in alt.politics.homosexuality "Anlatt
the Builder" <tirhuan@aol.com>
<1174280307.549219.241410@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com> wrote:
| On Mar 18, 8:38 pm, wrote:
| > On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
| > wrote:
| >
| > >http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
| >
| > "The bishop
| > referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
| > that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
| > and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
| >
| > "If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
| > society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
| >
| > Sounds correct and obvious to me.
|
| Possibly true. But gay marriage does not weaken the stability of
| marriage in any way.
Should we let them in on the little secret that the Catholic Church
performed same-sex marriages between the 9th and 14th centuries?
Hmmmm maybe not, their tiny heads might explode.
---------------------------------------------------------------
jnorthau@yourpantsyahoo.com.au : Remove your pants to reply
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 06:38:06 AM |
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On Mar 18, 10:50 pm, Jeff North <jnort...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
On 18 Mar 2007 21:58:27 -0700, in alt.politics.homosexuality "Anlatt
the Builder" <tirh...@aol.com>
<1174280307.549219.241...@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com> wrote:
| On Mar 18, 8:38 pm, wrote:
| > On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
| > wrote:
| >
| > >http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
| >
| > "The bishop
| > referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
| > that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
| > and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
| >
| > "If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
| > society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
| >
| > Sounds correct and obvious to me.
|
| Possibly true. But gay marriage does not weaken the stability of
| marriage in any way.
Should we let them in on the little secret that the Catholic Church
performed same-sex marriages between the 9th and 14th centuries?
So little known that maybe it never existed, eh?
.
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| User: "Jeff North" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 02:01:11 PM |
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On 19 Mar 2007 04:38:06 -0700, in alt.politics.homosexuality
lorad474@cs.com
<1174304286.592230.28850@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> wrote:
| On Mar 18, 10:50 pm, Jeff North <jnort...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
| > On 18 Mar 2007 21:58:27 -0700, in alt.politics.homosexuality "Anlatt
| > the Builder" <tirh...@aol.com>
| >
| > <1174280307.549219.241...@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com> wrote:
| > >| On Mar 18, 8:38 pm, wrote:
| > >| > On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
| > >| > wrote:
| > >| >
| > >| > >http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
| > >| >
| > >| > "The bishop
| > >| > referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
| > >| > that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
| > >| > and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
| > >| >
| > >| > "If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
| > >| > society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
| > >| >
| > >| > Sounds correct and obvious to me.
| > >|
| > >| Possibly true. But gay marriage does not weaken the stability of
| > >| marriage in any way.
| >
| > Should we let them in on the little secret that the Catholic Church
| > performed same-sex marriages between the 9th and 14th centuries?
|
| So little known that maybe it never existed, eh?
There has been a lot written about marriage and the church. Just
because you want to keep your head in the sand doesn't mean that such
information doesn't exist.
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jnorthau@yourpantsyahoo.com.au : Remove your pants to reply
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 12:15:22 AM |
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On Mar 18, 8:58 pm, "Anlatt the Builder" <tirh...@aol.com> wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
Possibly true. But gay marriage does not weaken the stability of
marriage in any way.
Yes it does. See Message-ID:
<1174278927.733609.207620@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 12:46:01 AM |
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On Mar 19, 2:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 12:59:23 AM |
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On Mar 18, 9:46 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
On Mar 19, 2:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
Yes, they may be part of families.
But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
Thus they cannot ever have normal families - nor have normal
marriages.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 01:11:41 AM |
|
|
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
"Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
Yes, they may be part of families.
But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
Of course they can.
Unlike all those celibate priests who don't even live by the *****
they preach.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 06:33:25 AM |
|
|
On Mar 18, 10:11 pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
<lorad...@cs.com> wrote:
"Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
Yes, they may be part of families.
But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
Of course they can.
Unlike all those celibate priests who don't even live by the *****
they preach.
--
Ray Fischer
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You concern regarding celebate priests does not intrude upon any
discussion of marriages.
Try to stick to the subject.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 09:31:32 PM |
|
|
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
<lorad...@cs.com> wrote:
"Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
Yes, they may be part of families.
But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
Of course they can.
Unlike all those celibate priests who don't even live by the *****
they preach.
You concern regarding celebate priests does not intrude upon any
discussion of marriages.
Reason the priests give for opposing gay marriage can be used against
them to oppose celibacy.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
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|
|
| User: "Dennis Kemmerer" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 11:31:31 AM |
|
|
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1174283963.653379.168180@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 18, 9:46 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
On Mar 19, 2:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
Yes, they may be part of families.
But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
Thus they cannot ever have normal families - nor have normal
marriages.
So when are we outlawing fertitily treatments, artificial insemination, and
all those things that people in 'normal' marriages do?
Do you actually think before you open your mouth?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jeff North" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 02:02:22 PM |
|
|
On 18 Mar 2007 22:59:23 -0700, in alt.politics.homosexuality
lorad474@cs.com
<1174283963.653379.168180@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> wrote:
| On Mar 18, 9:46 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
| > On Mar 19, 2:38 pm, wrote:
| >
| > > On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
| > > wrote:
| >
| > > >http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
| >
| > > "The bishop
| > > referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
| > > that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
| > > and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
| >
| > > "If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
| > > society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
| >
| > > Sounds correct and obvious to me.
| >
| > And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
| > Mark.
|
| Yes, they may be part of families.
| But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
| Thus they cannot ever have normal families - nor have normal
| marriages.
It's good to see that you despise heterosexual marriages that need to
use IVF.
---------------------------------------------------------------
jnorthau@yourpantsyahoo.com.au : Remove your pants to reply
---------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Anlatt the Builder" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 04:44:32 PM |
|
|
On Mar 18, 10:59 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 9:46 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
On Mar 19, 2:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
Yes, they may be part of families.
But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
Thus they cannot ever have normal families - nor have normal
marriages
This depends entirely on your shifting, unclear definition of
"normal."
There are many heterosexual couples who cannot "create families" (to
use your expression) except through artifical means. Are they also
unable to have normal families or normal marriages?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Radical Hippo" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 02:05:46 AM |
|
|
On Mar 19, 1:59 am, wrote:
On Mar 18, 9:46 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
On Mar 19, 2:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
Yes, they may be part of families.
But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
Thus they cannot ever have normal families - nor have normal
marriages.
Gays can have straight sex in the same way straights can have gay
sex. And why are you so concerned about the ability to bear
children? This world is burgeoning with underfed, underloved
children. You aren't helping the cause by standing in the way gay
marriage, an institutional change that would benefit hundreds of
thousands of people.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 06:57:29 AM |
|
|
On Mar 18, 11:05 pm, "Radical Hippo" <radical_hi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mar 19, 1:59 am, wrote:
On Mar 18, 9:46 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
On Mar 19, 2:38 pm, wrote:
On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
"The bishop
referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
"If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
Sounds correct and obvious to me.
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
Yes, they may be part of families.
But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
Thus they cannot ever have normal families - nor have normal
marriages.
Gays can have straight sex in the same way straights can have gay
sex.
If you say so.
And why are you so concerned about the ability to bear
children?
I am not overly concerned about procreative abilities. I am more
concerned about maintaining proper terminology and order in society -
as exists in the traditional family unit.
This world is burgeoning with underfed, underloved
children.
Due, in large part to a breakdown of that same heterogenous marriage
unit - the family.
The same family unit that you, apparently, wish to even further
disempower - by equating it with less responsible abstract lifestyle
pairings.
You aren't helping the cause by standing in the way gay
marriage, an institutional change that would benefit hundreds of
thousands of people.- Hide quoted text -
That's BS.
'Gay marrige' produces no children.. so 'gay marriage' supporters have
absolutely no 'kids' in the debate anyway.
Societies have usually allowed for odd pairings throughout history;
old bachelors or spinsters living togather.
Today those could be equated to 'civil unions', I suppose.
That should be enough.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dennis Kemmerer" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 11:31:32 AM |
|
|
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1174305449.329154.162020@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 18, 11:05 pm, "Radical Hippo" <radical_hi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mar 19, 1:59 am, wrote:
[snip]
You aren't helping the cause by standing in the way gay
marriage, an institutional change that would benefit hundreds of
thousands of people.- Hide quoted text -
That's BS.
'Gay marrige' produces no children.. so 'gay marriage' supporters have
absolutely no 'kids' in the debate anyway.
There's lots of same-sex couples who have and are rasing normal,
well-adjusted, successful kids. The fact that homophobic assholes like you
don't like it is, well, too fucking bad for you.
[snip]
.
|
|
|
| User: "John D.Wentzky" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 11:41:22 AM |
|
|
In news:EVyLh.7490$JZ3.4983@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net,
Dennis Kemmerer <dk@suespammers.org> typed:
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1174305449.329154.162020@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 18, 11:05 pm, "Radical Hippo" <radical_hi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mar 19, 1:59 am, wrote:
[snip]
You aren't helping the cause by standing in the way gay
marriage, an institutional change that would benefit hundreds of
thousands of people.- Hide quoted text -
That's BS.
'Gay marrige' produces no children.. so 'gay marriage' supporters
have absolutely no 'kids' in the debate anyway.
There's lots of same-sex couples who have and are rasing normal,
well-adjusted, successful kids. The fact that homophobic assholes
like you don't like it is, well, too fucking bad for you.
LOL!
Another idiot gets mad.
.
|
|
|
| User: "thomas p." |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 02:30:28 PM |
|
|
On 19 Mar., 17:41, "John D.Wentzky" <johndwent...@alumni.furman.edu>
wrote:
Innews:EVyLh.7490$JZ3.4983@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net,
Dennis Kemmerer <d...@suespammers.org> typed:
< > wrote in message
news:1174305449.329154.162020@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 18, 11:05 pm, "Radical Hippo" <radical_hi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mar 19, 1:59 am, wrote:
[snip]
You aren't helping the cause by standing in the way gay
marriage, an institutional change that would benefit hundreds of
thousands of people.- Hide quoted text -
That's BS.
'Gay marrige' produces no children.. so 'gay marriage' supporters
have absolutely no 'kids' in the debate anyway.
There's lots of same-sex couples who have and are rasing normal,
well-adjusted, successful kids. The fact that homophobic assholes
like you don't like it is, well, too fucking bad for you.
LOL!
Another idiot gets mad.-
No, another fact is mentioned that you cannot refute.
.
|
|
|
| User: "John D.Wentzky" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 03:24:51 PM |
|
|
In news:1174332628.250240.216540@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
thomas p. <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> typed:
On 19 Mar., 17:41, "John D.Wentzky" <johndwent...@alumni.furman.edu>
wrote:
Innews:EVyLh.7490$JZ3.4983@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net,
Dennis Kemmerer <d...@suespammers.org> typed:
< > wrote in message
news:1174305449.329154.162020@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 18, 11:05 pm, "Radical Hippo" <radical_hi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mar 19, 1:59 am, wrote:
[snip]
You aren't helping the cause by standing in the way gay
marriage, an institutional change that would benefit hundreds of
thousands of people.- Hide quoted text -
That's BS.
'Gay marrige' produces no children.. so 'gay marriage' supporters
have absolutely no 'kids' in the debate anyway.
There's lots of same-sex couples who have and are rasing normal,
well-adjusted, successful kids. The fact that homophobic assholes
like you don't like it is, well, too fucking bad for you.
LOL!
Another idiot gets mad.-
No, another fact is mentioned that you cannot refute.
Settled you down pretty quick, huh?
.
|
|
|
| User: "thomas p." |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
20 Mar 2007 02:56:38 AM |
|
|
On 19 Mar., 21:24, "John D.Wentzky" <johndwent...@alumni.furman.edu>
wrote:
Innews:1174332628.250240.216540@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
thomas p. <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> typed:
On 19 Mar., 17:41, "John D.Wentzky" <johndwent...@alumni.furman.edu>
wrote:
Innews:EVyLh.7490$JZ3.4983@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net,
Dennis Kemmerer <d...@suespammers.org> typed:
< > wrote in message
news:1174305449.329154.162020@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 18, 11:05 pm, "Radical Hippo" <radical_hi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mar 19, 1:59 am, wrote:
[snip]
You aren't helping the cause by standing in the way gay
marriage, an institutional change that would benefit hundreds of
thousands of people.- Hide quoted text -
That's BS.
'Gay marrige' produces no children.. so 'gay marriage' supporters
have absolutely no 'kids' in the debate anyway.
There's lots of same-sex couples who have and are rasing normal,
well-adjusted, successful kids. The fact that homophobic assholes
like you don't like it is, well, too fucking bad for you.
LOL!
Another idiot gets mad.-
No, another fact is mentioned that you cannot refute.
Settled you down pretty quick, huh?- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -
Is the above supposed to mean something? Seriously, I cannot figure
out what you are talking about.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jeff North" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 02:11:51 PM |
|
|
On 19 Mar 2007 04:57:29 -0700, in alt.politics.homosexuality
lorad474@cs.com
<1174305449.329154.162020@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> wrote:
| On Mar 18, 11:05 pm, "Radical Hippo" <radical_hi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| > On Mar 19, 1:59 am, wrote:
| >
| > > On Mar 18, 9:46 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
| >
| > > > On Mar 19, 2:38 pm, wrote:
| >
| > > > > On Mar 18, 4:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
| > > > > wrote:
| >
| > > > > >http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
| >
| > > > > "The bishop
| > > > > referred to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights where it states
| > > > > that "the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society
| > > > > and is entitled to protection by society and the state."
| >
| > > > > "If family stability is weakened, the fundamental group unit of
| > > > > society is also weakened," Bishop Sgreccia said. "
| >
| > > > > Sounds correct and obvious to me.
| >
| > > > And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
| > > > Mark.
| >
| > > Yes, they may be part of families.
| > > But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
| > > Thus they cannot ever have normal families - nor have normal
| > > marriages.
| >
| > Gays can have straight sex in the same way straights can have gay
| > sex.
|
| If you say so.
|
| > And why are you so concerned about the ability to bear
| > children?
|
| I am not overly concerned about procreative abilities. I am more
| concerned about maintaining proper terminology and order in society -
| as exists in the traditional family unit.
Are you sure you don't mean contemporary family unit?
Todays family unit (mum, dad 2.3 kids, house and white picket fence)
only came about since the 1950's. Prior to that it was the extended
family.
| > This world is burgeoning with underfed, underloved
| > children.
|
| Due, in large part to a breakdown of that same heterogenous marriage
| unit - the family.
| The same family unit that you, apparently, wish to even further
| disempower - by equating it with less responsible abstract lifestyle
| pairings.
|
| > You aren't helping the cause by standing in the way gay
| > marriage, an institutional change that would benefit hundreds of
| > thousands of people.- Hide quoted text -
|
| That's BS.
| 'Gay marrige' produces no children.. so 'gay marriage' supporters have
| absolutely no 'kids' in the debate anyway.
|
| Societies have usually allowed for odd pairings throughout history;
| old bachelors or spinsters living togather.
| Today those could be equated to 'civil unions', I suppose.
| That should be enough.
|
|
|
---------------------------------------------------------------
jnorthau@yourpantsyahoo.com.au : Remove your pants to reply
---------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Anlatt the Builder" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 04:41:52 PM |
|
|
On Mar 19, 4:57 am, wrote:
And of course homosexuals have families and are part of families.
Mark.
Yes, they may be part of families.
But they cannot ever create families - other than by artificial means.
Thus they cannot ever have normal families - nor have normal
marriages.
Gays can have straight sex in the same way straights can have gay
sex.
If you say so.
And why are you so concerned about the ability to bear
children?
I am not overly concerned about procreative abilities. I am more
concerned about maintaining proper terminology and order in society -
as exists in the traditional family unit.
This world is burgeoning with underfed, underloved
children.
Due, in large part to a breakdown of that same heterogenous marriage
unit - the family.
The same family unit that you, apparently, wish to even further
disempower - by equating it with less responsible abstract lifestyle
pairings.
Oh, that's brilliant! Blame the multitude of unwanted and uncared-for
children on gays!
Supporters of gay marriage are not attempting to "disempower" any
family unit. Nor is there any evidence that, if gay marriage is
permitted, any family unti would be disempowered.
As for "less responsible": some gay couples are less responsible than
some straight couples. Some gay couples are more responsbile than some
straight couples. It depends on the couples. No general statement can
be made.
Gay marriage is not an "abstract lifestyle pairing," an absurd phrase
whose only purpose is to drain the humanity out of a human activity. A
gay marriage is a union of two people who love each other - at least,
as much as a straight marriage is.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "ScottyFLL" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
19 Mar 2007 10:12:54 AM |
|
|
On Mar 18, 8:19 pm, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1799776/posts
Vatican Prelate: Catholics will "do everything possible" to prevent
Homosexual Civil Unions
Civil unions are not the business of any church.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Andres64" |
|
| Title: Re: Catholics Will Do Everything Possible To Prevent Homosexual Civil Unions |
| |
