| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"David Crofts" |
| Date: |
16 Oct 2005 01:22:54 PM |
| Object: |
Cause and Effect |
Hello Fellow Atheists,
It seems to me when you think about cause and effect, you have to conclude
any particular event either has a cause or it does not. The option it does
not have a cause is very unappealing because this would be like everything
in existence has been destroyed and recreated again different for no good
reason. This scenario is very unattractive and removes any illusion of free
will. This only leaves the conclusion that any particular event has a cause
and hence determinism. The proposition by our religious friends that the
cause may be God performing a miracle is flawed because the same logic
applies even to God. Either God is governed by cause and effect or He is
not. Let me say a God not governed by prayer or at least some kind of
previous set of events is very repulsive. Hence, I say again the only
reasonable belief system is determinism. This does not exclude God but any
reasonable person would conclude the that a determined God is no different
to any one of us. Believing in a determined creator God is just one level
of complication that reasonable people would reject.
Hence I believe in determinism but choose to ignore the fact and act as if I
have free will. This is because my life experience has shown me that
happiness and enhancing pursuits exist just as surely as determinism. With
my so called free will is choose to ignore determinism and be Happy.
For more of "My Inspired Documents" check out
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~crofts/david.htm
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Cause and Effect |
16 Oct 2005 04:07:17 PM |
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I prefer to believe that every event has a cause.
Can you give one example of a non-causal event ?
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Cause and Effect |
16 Oct 2005 04:22:00 PM |
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On 16 Oct 2005 14:07:17 -0700, wrote:
It's nothing to do with atheism.
Why didn't you ask on talk.origins?
I prefer to believe that every event has a cause.
Belief doesn't make it so.
Can you give one example of a non-causal event ?
Appearance of virtual particle pairs.
The radioactive decay of a specific atom.
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
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| Title: Re: Cause and Effect |
16 Oct 2005 11:48:33 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:22:00 -0400, Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>
wrote:
On 16 Oct 2005 14:07:17 -0700, wrote:
It's nothing to do with atheism.
Why didn't you ask on talk.origins?
I prefer to believe that every event has a cause.
Belief doesn't make it so.
Can you give one example of a non-causal event ?
Appearance of virtual particle pairs.
The radioactive decay of a specific atom.
Could "time", itself, be considered a sort of "acausal event"? :-?
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
BAAWA
a.a. #88
UU Minister # "=" - "Grand Equivocator of the Balanced Equal Sign"
~=^*=^=~-=^=-~=^=*^=~=-^=-=~^=*=^~=-=^-=~=^*=^=~-=^=-~=^=*^=~=-^=-=~^=*=^~=
"Surrendering To The Fall" - A blog about - what else? - me:
http://surrenderingtothefall.blogspot.com
(perpetually under construction)
~=^*=^=~-=^=-~=^=*^=~=-^=-=~^=*=^~=-=^-=~=^*=^=~-=^=-~=^=*^=~=-^=-=~^=*=^~=
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Cause and Effect |
17 Oct 2005 04:03:28 AM |
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:48:33 -0400, Uncle Buck
<UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:22:00 -0400, Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>
wrote:
On 16 Oct 2005 14:07:17 -0700, wrote:
It's nothing to do with atheism.
Why didn't you ask on talk.origins?
I prefer to believe that every event has a cause.
Belief doesn't make it so.
Can you give one example of a non-causal event ?
Appearance of virtual particle pairs.
The radioactive decay of a specific atom.
Could "time", itself, be considered a sort of "acausal event"? :-?
Not since "time" is not an event.
Neither formally nor informally.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Cause and Effect |
17 Oct 2005 06:36:38 AM |
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 04:22:54 +1000, "David Crofts"
<dasc1961@netscape.net> wrote:
Hello Fellow Atheists,
Hmm why is my theist detector now buzzing?
It seems to me when you think about cause and effect, you have to conclude
any particular event either has a cause or it does not. The option it does
not have a cause is very unappealing
You should be considering what is, the reality of something, not what
you would like it to be. What you see is what you get whether you like
it or not.
because this would be like everything
in existence has been destroyed and recreated again different for no good
reason. This scenario is very unattractive and removes any illusion of free
will.
Poor reasoning when you think in terms of what you would like things
to be rather than what evidence actually shows. I would like my part
of the world to be warmer but I have to accept what it really is this
time of year. I could of course wish it were warmer and heat the
thermometer and believe the reading but I am not into self-delusion.
(actually it is quite mild for October but heavily overcast, gloomy,
misty and damp)
This only leaves the conclusion that any particular event has a cause
and hence determinism. The proposition by our religious friends that the
cause may be God performing a miracle is flawed because the same logic
applies even to God. Either God is governed by cause and effect or He is
not. Let me say a God not governed by prayer or at least some kind of
previous set of events is very repulsive. Hence, I say again the only
reasonable belief system is determinism. This does not exclude God but any
reasonable person would conclude the that a determined God is no different
to any one of us. Believing in a determined creator God is just one level
of complication that reasonable people would reject.
Hence I believe in determinism
I don't have a clue either way. What theory does the evidence suggest?
Do you have any to offer?
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
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