| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"protestanterrors.com" |
| Date: |
30 Dec 2005 09:24:37 PM |
| Object: |
Challenge for atheists |
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
BH
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| User: "L.Roberts." |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 02:37:39 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
O
Look, dude, I cannot see that there is any evidence that this phenomena,
as you described it, is a reality (and if it were, methinks that, at my
age, there is no way I would not have heard of it before now, meaning, if
there was a much to it as you suggested) if it was, and if it was, I would
be absolutely amazed and would seek to find out everything that is known
about it, but I would never hasten to call it a manisfestation of
something 'supernatural' without first seeking out more rational and
natural causes.
I am not afraid of the unknown since such is likely useless anyhow. I have
long sought, and still seek for, answers to the mysteries of life, but, I
am'n't anywhere near ready to settle for the easier, so-called answers,
one can find in fairytales, like, you know, the Bible: and if I, in my
lifetime, never find them, I will, as likely as not, never know it.
L.Roberts.
The book, "The Incorruptibles" by Cruz is a head start. Only a few bucks
for this book.
Ah, so now we find you out, you're a book salesperson!
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 12:32:57 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
O
Look, dude, I cannot see that there is any evidence that this phenomena,
as you described it, is a reality (and if it were, methinks that, at my
age, there is no way I would not have heard of it before now, meaning, if
there was a much to it as you suggested) if it was, and if it was, I would
be absolutely amazed and would seek to find out everything that is known
about it, but I would never hasten to call it a manisfestation of
something 'supernatural' without first seeking out more rational and
natural causes.
I am not afraid of the unknown since such is likely useless anyhow. I have
long sought, and still seek for, answers to the mysteries of life, but, I
am'n't anywhere near ready to settle for the easier, so-called answers,
one can find in fairytales, like, you know, the Bible: and if I, in my
lifetime, never find them, I will, as likely as not, never know it.
L.Roberts.
The book, "The Incorruptibles" by Cruz is a head start. Only a few bucks
for this book.
I'm sure you could find something in the National Enquirer, too.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
30 Dec 2005 10:12:58 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
An argument from incredulity. How impressive.
Incidentally, have these been verified by the scientific/medical
community, or is this information provided by the Catholic church?
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 05:54:55 PM |
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:12:58 -0800, Chris Johnson wrote:
protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
An argument from incredulity. How impressive.
Incidentally, have these been verified by the scientific/medical
community, or is this information provided by the Catholic church?
This is verified by non-Christian scientists. Go read the publicly
available documentation on any of them.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 06:28:18 PM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.31.23.54.55.641143@protestanterrors.com...
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:12:58 -0800, Chris Johnson wrote:
protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
An argument from incredulity. How impressive.
Incidentally, have these been verified by the scientific/medical
community, or is this information provided by the Catholic church?
This is verified by non-Christian scientists. Go read the publicly
available documentation on any of them.
Sure, right after you post it.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 01:44:48 AM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
Two words which answer it all: Pious frauds.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
Why I am not a christian:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus/nojebus
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 04:50:40 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:44:48 +0100, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote:
protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
Two words which answer it all: Pious frauds.
Spot the redundant word.
Clue: it begins with "P".
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 05:25:57 PM |
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:44:48 +0100, Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian wrote:
protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
Two words which answer it all: Pious frauds.
Ask the non-religious examiners who examine them, and read their
documentation they have compiled on them. These people cannot deny the
phenomena and they have the same goals as you, to try and claim they are
frauds, but they cannot.
They are on display to the public as well, go see them.
BH
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 11:33:24 PM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.31.23.25.57.837921@protestanterrors.com...
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:44:48 +0100, Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian wrote:
protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
Two words which answer it all: Pious frauds.
Ask the non-religious examiners who examine them, and read their
documentation they have compiled on them. These people cannot deny the
phenomena and they have the same goals as you, to try and claim they are
frauds, but they cannot.
Golly...why don't we ask the -religious- examiners instead? They ought to
bolster your position. Here's a sniff for you:
"At the Vatican's request, Italian pathologists, chemists, and radiologists
have been poring over the bodies of the ancient men and women interred in
church reliquaries. Charged with gleaning new information about the lives of
the saints and assisting in the conservation of sacred remains, they have
also brought science to the altars of Europe's cathedrals. Already, they
have examined more than two dozen saints and beati, shedding light on the
mystery of their preservation. While some saints were clearly mummified by
their devout followers, others were protected from decay by environmental
conditions, raising new questions about incorruptibility."
The rest of the article, and fine reading it is, too, can be found at:
http://www.nhne.com/misc/incorruptibles.html
Not that I want any part of this pissing match, because I don't...I just
happened to be passing through after a long hiatus, and I see that (of
course) nothing's changed. My apologies to everyone if this link has already
been posted or discussed; I just don't have the strength to go back through
the entire thread to check. My mind is still trying to recover from all of
the crap that I encountered the last time I visited this corner of Usenet.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
01 Jan 2006 02:42:53 AM |
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On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 05:33:24 GMT, "Honus"
<honus1@earthlink.net.is.invalid> wrote:
"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.31.23.25.57.837921@protestanterrors.com...
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:44:48 +0100, Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian wrote:
protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
Two words which answer it all: Pious frauds.
Ask the non-religious examiners who examine them, and read their
documentation they have compiled on them. These people cannot deny the
phenomena and they have the same goals as you, to try and claim they are
frauds, but they cannot.
Golly...why don't we ask the -religious- examiners instead? They ought to
bolster your position. Here's a sniff for you:
"At the Vatican's request, Italian pathologists, chemists, and radiologists
have been poring over the bodies of the ancient men and women interred in
church reliquaries. Charged with gleaning new information about the lives of
the saints and assisting in the conservation of sacred remains, they have
also brought science to the altars of Europe's cathedrals. Already, they
have examined more than two dozen saints and beati, shedding light on the
mystery of their preservation. While some saints were clearly mummified by
their devout followers, others were protected from decay by environmental
conditions, raising new questions about incorruptibility."
The rest of the article, and fine reading it is, too, can be found at:
http://www.nhne.com/misc/incorruptibles.html
Not that I want any part of this pissing match, because I don't...I just
happened to be passing through after a long hiatus, and I see that (of
course) nothing's changed. My apologies to everyone if this link has already
been posted or discussed; I just don't have the strength to go back through
the entire thread to check. My mind is still trying to recover from all of
the crap that I encountered the last time I visited this corner of Usenet.
And the best bit ia at the end:
"In the face of science, the roman Catholic Church has now virtually
abandoned the notion of incorruptibility."
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
01 Jan 2006 11:07:12 PM |
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Golly...why don't we ask the -religious- examiners instead? They ought to
bolster your position. Here's a sniff for you:
"At the Vatican's request, Italian pathologists, chemists, and
radiologists have been poring over the bodies of the ancient men and
women interred in church reliquaries. Charged with gleaning new
information about the lives of the saints and assisting in the
conservation of sacred remains, they have also brought science to the
altars of Europe's cathedrals. Already, they have examined more than two
dozen saints and beati, shedding light on the mystery of their
preservation. While some saints were clearly mummified by their devout
followers, others were protected from decay by environmental conditions,
raising new questions about incorruptibility."
The rest of the article, and fine reading it is, too, can be found at:
http://www.nhne.com/misc/incorruptibles.html
And the best bit ia at the end:
"In the face of science, the roman Catholic Church has now virtually
abandoned the notion of incorruptibility."
Interesting, you find an article from someone who does not believe in this
phenomenom and now all of a sudden it is automatically fact to you. I
assume you won't be asking the writer to "prove it" because it is right
along with what you believe. This one silly article does not change the
facts of 2000 years of this phenomenom. It simple shows the writer didn't
do her homework. Read some actual cases and you'll see this has zero to do
with environment....it happens in ANY environment. One article with
someone's opinion means nothing.
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 12:24:49 AM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.02.05.07.11.447422@protestanterrors.com...
Golly...why don't we ask the -religious- examiners instead? They ought
to
bolster your position. Here's a sniff for you:
"At the Vatican's request, Italian pathologists, chemists, and
radiologists have been poring over the bodies of the ancient men and
women interred in church reliquaries. Charged with gleaning new
information about the lives of the saints and assisting in the
conservation of sacred remains, they have also brought science to the
altars of Europe's cathedrals. Already, they have examined more than two
dozen saints and beati, shedding light on the mystery of their
preservation. While some saints were clearly mummified by their devout
followers, others were protected from decay by environmental conditions,
raising new questions about incorruptibility."
The rest of the article, and fine reading it is, too, can be found at:
http://www.nhne.com/misc/incorruptibles.html
And the best bit ia at the end:
"In the face of science, the roman Catholic Church has now virtually
abandoned the notion of incorruptibility."
Interesting, you find an article from someone who does not believe in this
phenomenom and now all of a sudden it is automatically fact to you. I
Interesting, you put words into my mouth. No, wait...the word is
"predictable". You're the one irresponsibly throwing about the word "fact",
not I.
assume you won't be asking the writer to "prove it" because it is right
along with what you believe. This one silly article does not change the
facts of 2000 years of this phenomenom. It simple shows the writer didn't
do her homework. Read some actual cases and you'll see this has zero to do
with environment....it happens in ANY environment. One article with
someone's opinion means nothing.
By actual cases, I assume that you mean first hand accounts of exhumations.
For every one that you provide, I'll provide, say, five others that have
either nothing to do with Catholics or were members of faiths diametrically
opposed to yours. Martin Luther can say that he saw the devil, and scared
him away with a fart; it means -nothing- to me.
You missed the main reason that I brought that particular article forth for
everyone's perusal. Namely, that it details the findings made by a team of
scientists at the official request of the Vatican. It's not the writer's
"opinion". The writer doesn't need to prove anything if she's relating the
findings of the Vatican's team of scientists; they're the ones that need to
be asked to "prove" what they found. (Oh, wait...they did that already,
didn't they?) I even went to the trouble of coming right out and saying "why
don't we ask the -religious- examiners". And I'll give you damned near any
odds you'd like that they were predominately Catholic if not Catholic to a
man and either specifically chosen for this task by the Vatican or at least
approved of by it. I rather doubt that the Mother Church is going to let a
sinful apostate like myself peek under Bernadette's dress. (Not that I'd
want to, even if she were alive. Unlike all of my buddies, I just never had
that much luck with Catholic girls.)
As I'm sure has been pointed out to you, you're making the extraordinary
claim...you get to trot out the extraordinary evidence. Instead, all I see
from you are reminders of why I left a.a and quit arguing with zealots in
general in the first place. You place words in people's mouths, you ignore
what's given to you in black and white, you obfuscate, you claim fables as
fact, etc. ad nauseum.
While we're at it, why don't you address this quote and the question that it
begs?
"The 20th-century Catholic Church had not hesitated in calling on science
for help in preserving a future saint."
I can see that you're being intentionally obtuse, but try to answer it
anyway.
By the way, you're right; two thousand years of facts aren't changed by the
article. You're just not correct in the way that you think you are. I'll bet
you venerate the Shroud of Turin, as well.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
03 Jan 2006 09:22:19 PM |
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In <pan.2006.01.02.05.07.11.447422@protestanterrors.com>,
"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote:
Golly...why don't we ask the -religious- examiners instead? They ought
to bolster your position. Here's a sniff for you:
"At the Vatican's request, Italian pathologists, chemists, and
radiologists have been poring over the bodies of the ancient men and
women interred in church reliquaries. Charged with gleaning new
information about the lives of the saints and assisting in the
conservation of sacred remains, they have also brought science to the
altars of Europe's cathedrals. Already, they have examined more than two
dozen saints and beati, shedding light on the mystery of their
preservation. While some saints were clearly mummified by their devout
followers, others were protected from decay by environmental conditions,
raising new questions about incorruptibility."
The rest of the article, and fine reading it is, too, can be found at:
http://www.nhne.com/misc/incorruptibles.html
And the best bit ia at the end:
"In the face of science, the roman Catholic Church has now virtually
abandoned the notion of incorruptibility."
Interesting, you find an article from someone who does not believe in this
phenomenom and now all of a sudden it is automatically fact to you. I
assume you won't be asking the writer to "prove it" because it is right
along with what you believe. This one silly article does not change the
facts of 2000 years of this phenomenom. It simple shows the writer didn't
do her homework. Read some actual cases and you'll see this has zero to do
with environment....it happens in ANY environment. One article with
someone's opinion means nothing.
Funny, the article is about the investigation conducted for and by the
Catholic church itself. So you're saying the Catholic church is wrong?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
So much for that "storm of the century" excuse
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A3992495C
NO held hostage by oil corporations,
ANWR demanded as ransom
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J5C92195C
White House balks at spending on US citizens,
needs more billions for Iraq!
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D93595C
(Tell me again how much we spent bailing out the S&Ls?)
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 12:08:02 AM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:07:12 -0500, "protestanterrors.com"
<bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote:
Golly...why don't we ask the -religious- examiners instead? They ought to
bolster your position. Here's a sniff for you:
"At the Vatican's request, Italian pathologists, chemists, and
radiologists have been poring over the bodies of the ancient men and
women interred in church reliquaries. Charged with gleaning new
information about the lives of the saints and assisting in the
conservation of sacred remains, they have also brought science to the
altars of Europe's cathedrals. Already, they have examined more than two
dozen saints and beati, shedding light on the mystery of their
preservation. While some saints were clearly mummified by their devout
followers, others were protected from decay by environmental conditions,
raising new questions about incorruptibility."
The rest of the article, and fine reading it is, too, can be found at:
http://www.nhne.com/misc/incorruptibles.html
And the best bit ia at the end:
"In the face of science, the roman Catholic Church has now virtually
abandoned the notion of incorruptibility."
Interesting, you find an article from someone who does not believe in this
phenomenom and now all of a sudden it is automatically fact to you. I
assume you won't be asking the writer to "prove it" because it is right
along with what you believe. This one silly article does not change the
facts of 2000 years of this phenomenom. It simple shows the writer didn't
do her homework. Read some actual cases and you'll see this has zero to do
with environment....it happens in ANY environment. One article with
someone's opinion means nothing.
Listen, you made the claim.
It's not up to me to provide the evidence to support your claim.
Peer researched scientific papers would be a good START to addressing
the issue.
Where are they?
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 09:00:43 AM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
Golly...why don't we ask the -religious- examiners instead? They ought to
bolster your position. Here's a sniff for you:
"At the Vatican's request, Italian pathologists, chemists, and
radiologists have been poring over the bodies of the ancient men and
women interred in church reliquaries. Charged with gleaning new
information about the lives of the saints and assisting in the
conservation of sacred remains, they have also brought science to the
altars of Europe's cathedrals. Already, they have examined more than two
dozen saints and beati, shedding light on the mystery of their
preservation. While some saints were clearly mummified by their devout
followers, others were protected from decay by environmental conditions,
raising new questions about incorruptibility."
The rest of the article, and fine reading it is, too, can be found at:
http://www.nhne.com/misc/incorruptibles.html
And the best bit ia at the end:
"In the face of science, the roman Catholic Church has now virtually
abandoned the notion of incorruptibility."
Interesting, you find an article from someone who does not believe in this
phenomenom and now all of a sudden it is automatically fact to you. I
assume you won't be asking the writer to "prove it" because it is right
along with what you believe. This one silly article does not change the
facts of 2000 years of this phenomenom. It simple shows the writer didn't
do her homework. Read some actual cases and you'll see this has zero to do
with environment....it happens in ANY environment. One article with
someone's opinion means nothing.
Did you miss the parts about "At the Vatican's request" and "In the
face of science, the roman Catholic Church has now virtually abandoned
the notion of incorruptibility"?
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 07:49:41 PM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.31.23.25.57.837921@protestanterrors.com...
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:44:48 +0100, Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian wrote:
protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
Two words which answer it all: Pious frauds.
Ask the non-religious examiners who examine them, and read their
documentation they have compiled on them. These people cannot deny the
phenomena and they have the same goals as you, to try and claim they are
frauds, but they cannot.
They are on display to the public as well, go see them.
Sure, as soon as you send me the money.
I like to fly out of Kennedy airport or Newark.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 06:22:37 PM |
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:25:57 -0500, "protestanterrors.com"
<bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:44:48 +0100, Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian wrote:
protestanterrors.com wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
Two words which answer it all: Pious frauds.
Ask the non-religious examiners who examine them, and read their
documentation they have compiled on them. These people cannot deny the
phenomena and they have the same goals as you, to try and claim they are
frauds, but they cannot.
They are on display to the public as well, go see them.
You still haven't answered the question, moron:
WAS LENIN A CATHOLIC ON YOUR PLANET?
BH
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