| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"protestanterrors.com" |
| Date: |
30 Dec 2005 09:24:37 PM |
| Object: |
Challenge for atheists |
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
BH
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| User: "Lörd Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 01:59:17 AM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:pan.2005.12.31.03.24.37.624262@protestanterrors.com:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
"What is most astounding of all is the fact that for each incorrupt body
discovered, after research has been done to determine who the person was,
it has always been determined that the person was an extremely devout
Catholic. This inevitably leads to the question, How can the process of
decay, which has no intelligence, choose which bodies to devour and not to
devour, and why do they happen to be devout Catholics? This phenomena is
simply miraculous"
ASTOUNDING!!! Catholics and murkles!!!! Who woulda thunk it? That link is
overwhelming proof that you're a fucking mental cripple that would grasp at
any fucking straw to mould facts around your precious fiction to make it
seem real to any fucking retard as gullible as you.
***** and get some REAL evidence, dipshit!
--
Lörd Phÿltêr
Alt.Atheism #1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 05:23:08 PM |
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Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
"What is most astounding of all is the fact that for each incorrupt body
discovered, after research has been done to determine who the person was,
it has always been determined that the person was an extremely devout
Catholic. This inevitably leads to the question, How can the process of
decay, which has no intelligence, choose which bodies to devour and not to
devour, and why do they happen to be devout Catholics? This phenomena is
simply miraculous"
ASTOUNDING!!! Catholics and murkles!!!! Who woulda thunk it? That link is
overwhelming proof that you're a fucking mental cripple that would grasp
at any fucking straw to mould facts around your precious fiction to make
it seem real to any fucking retard as gullible as you.
***** and get some REAL evidence, dipshit!
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with
plain facts that you can't explain. I provided locations all over Europe,
they are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let
me guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
BH
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 07:48:20 PM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.31.23.23.07.990985@protestanterrors.com...
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
"What is most astounding of all is the fact that for each incorrupt body
discovered, after research has been done to determine who the person was,
it has always been determined that the person was an extremely devout
Catholic. This inevitably leads to the question, How can the process of
decay, which has no intelligence, choose which bodies to devour and not
to
devour, and why do they happen to be devout Catholics? This phenomena is
simply miraculous"
ASTOUNDING!!! Catholics and murkles!!!! Who woulda thunk it? That link is
overwhelming proof that you're a fucking mental cripple that would grasp
at any fucking straw to mould facts around your precious fiction to make
it seem real to any fucking retard as gullible as you.
***** and get some REAL evidence, dipshit!
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with
plain facts that you can't explain.
Name one fact you've posted.
I provided locations all over Europe,
they are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let
me guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
\
Let me guess - Are you paying for my airfare and hotel?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 09:22:37 PM |
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http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with plain
facts that you can't explain.
Name one fact you've posted.
I've given specific cathedral names in Italy and France, and many others
are available in books on the subject. What else can I tell you other than
exact location?
I provided locations all over Europe,
they are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away.
Let me guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
\
Let me guess - Are you paying for my airfare and hotel?
I'm letting you know they exist and where. Maybe on a future vacation you can
take a tour through Italy to see them. I know many who have, they are
there. Grab a book on it, even non-religious people cannot deny it.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 09:39:10 PM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.01.03.22.37.161154@protestanterrors.com...
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with plain
facts that you can't explain.
Name one fact you've posted.
I've given specific cathedral names in Italy and France, and many others
are available in books on the subject. What else can I tell you other than
exact location?
Post actually evidence.
I provided locations all over Europe,
they are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away.
Let me guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
\
Let me guess - Are you paying for my airfare and hotel?
I'm letting you know they exist and where.
So what? You want me to check it out, you pay for it.
Maybe on a future vacation you can
take a tour through Italy to see them. I know many who have, they are
there. Grab a book on it, even non-religious people cannot deny it.
Prove it.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 09:04:29 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with plain
facts that you can't explain.
Name one fact you've posted.
I've given specific cathedral names in Italy and France, and many others
are available in books on the subject. What else can I tell you other than
exact location?
Your original post was:
"Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:"
Possible answers:
- It could be a deliberate fake.
- It could be natural mumification.
You countered this answers with claims that scientific investigation
showed that this is not the case.
Please correct me if this is not what you claim.
However, if I understand you right then we are awaiting information
regarding this second claim. Please note that "scientific investigation"
has a very high standard, and involves *scientific* methods, from the
start of the investigation till the presentation of the results.
j.m.
#1491
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 10:56:27 PM |
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:23:08 -0500, "protestanterrors.com"
<bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
"What is most astounding of all is the fact that for each incorrupt body
discovered, after research has been done to determine who the person was,
it has always been determined that the person was an extremely devout
Catholic. This inevitably leads to the question, How can the process of
decay, which has no intelligence, choose which bodies to devour and not to
devour, and why do they happen to be devout Catholics? This phenomena is
simply miraculous"
ASTOUNDING!!! Catholics and murkles!!!! Who woulda thunk it? That link is
overwhelming proof that you're a fucking mental cripple that would grasp
at any fucking straw to mould facts around your precious fiction to make
it seem real to any fucking retard as gullible as you.
***** and get some REAL evidence, dipshit!
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with
plain facts that you can't explain. I provided locations all over Europe,
they are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let
me guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
BH
You deserve hostility for lying, time-and-time again, and expecting
others to support your lunatic delusions.
Put up, or shut up.
You asked for this, don't forget.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
01 Jan 2006 03:30:48 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:23:08 -0500, "protestanterrors.com"
<bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote:
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with
plain facts that you can't explain. I provided locations all over Europe,
they are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let
me guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
Dear Mr. *****-for-Brains,
It has nothing to do with hostility of atheists. But everything with
your idiotic idea of debating. You do not debate, you don't even know
what it is. Frankly speaking, if debate and sanity team up and gang
rape you, you wouldn't know what hit you.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 06:21:52 PM |
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:23:08 -0500, "protestanterrors.com"
<bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote:
***** and get some REAL evidence, dipshit!
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with
plain facts that you can't explain. I provided locations all over Europe,
they are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let
me guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
Liar. You didn't challenge anything. You came here as a stupid,
in-your-face moron.
BH
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 09:26:41 PM |
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O>
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with plain
facts that you can't explain. I provided locations all over Europe, they
are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let me
guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
Liar. You didn't challenge anything. You came here as a stupid,
in-your-face moron.
My challenge to you is to go see them first hand with your own eyes. I
gave exact cathedral names in Italy. Books exist too, as does other
documentation.
You are just afraid I might be right....I can save you time right now and
tell you I am.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 09:39:42 PM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.01.03.26.41.385486@protestanterrors.com...
O>
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with plain
facts that you can't explain. I provided locations all over Europe, they
are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let me
guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
Liar. You didn't challenge anything. You came here as a stupid,
in-your-face moron.
My challenge to you is to go see them first hand with your own eyes.
Fine, then pay for it.
I
gave exact cathedral names in Italy. Books exist too, as does other
documentation.
Post it.
You are just afraid I might be right....I can save you time right now and
tell you I am.
Prove it.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 08:54:55 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
O>
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with plain
facts that you can't explain. I provided locations all over Europe, they
are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let me
guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
Liar. You didn't challenge anything. You came here as a stupid,
in-your-face moron.
My challenge to you is to go see them first hand with your own eyes.
OK. Fine. Now, where do I get one of this $200 tickets from Toronto to
Europe?
This is a really important question. The last time I paid more than
$1200 dollar.
I
gave exact cathedral names in Italy. Books exist too, as does other
documentation.
You are just afraid I might be right....I can save you time right now and
tell you I am.
Don't worry. I also got scared in this mummy movies. But then I realized
"it's just a movie".
Just kiding.
Never saw this movies.
j.m.
#1491
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 08:55:37 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
O>
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with plain
facts that you can't explain. I provided locations all over Europe, they
are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let me
guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
Liar. You didn't challenge anything. You came here as a stupid,
in-your-face moron.
My challenge to you is to go see them first hand with your own eyes. I
gave exact cathedral names in Italy. Books exist too, as does other
documentation.
You are just afraid I might be right....I can save you time right now and
tell you I am.
Actually, did YOU ever see one of them?
j.m.
#1491
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
01 Jan 2006 07:14:09 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
O>
I always get such hostility from atheists when you are faced with plain
facts that you can't explain. I provided locations all over Europe, they
are there for the public to see and are a $200 plane ticket away. Let me
guess, will you look the other way for this phenomena too?
Liar. You didn't challenge anything. You came here as a stupid,
in-your-face moron.
My challenge to you is to go see them first hand with your own eyes. I
gave exact cathedral names in Italy. Books exist too, as does other
documentation.
Please present this "other documentation."
You are just afraid I might be right....I can save you time right now and
tell you I am.
Yeah, I know I for one am really afraid that some deity is preserving
corpses for no apparent reason. Golly, think how much more frightening
it would be if they were actually STILL ALIVE.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 07:04:03 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
and are a $200 plane ticket away.
Regardless of anything else, where do you get this $200 dollar plane
tickets? US or Canadian? Canadian would be nice. I'm leaving from YYC.
j.m.
#1491
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 02:24:48 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 07:59:17 GMT, "Lörd Phÿltêr"
<phylter@hsotmail.com> wrote:
"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:pan.2005.12.31.03.24.37.624262@protestanterrors.com:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
"What is most astounding of all is the fact that for each incorrupt body
discovered, after research has been done to determine who the person was,
it has always been determined that the person was an extremely devout
Catholic. This inevitably leads to the question, How can the process of
decay, which has no intelligence, choose which bodies to devour and not to
devour, and why do they happen to be devout Catholics? This phenomena is
simply miraculous"
ASTOUNDING!!! Catholics and murkles!!!! Who woulda thunk it? That link is
overwhelming proof that you're a fucking mental cripple that would grasp at
any fucking straw to mould facts around your precious fiction to make it
seem real to any fucking retard as gullible as you.
On his planet Lenin was a Catholic.
***** and get some REAL evidence, dipshit!
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 04:52:50 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 03:24:48 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 07:59:17 GMT, "Lörd Phÿltêr"
<phylter@hsotmail.com> wrote:
"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:pan.2005.12.31.03.24.37.624262@protestanterrors.com:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
"What is most astounding of all is the fact that for each incorrupt body
discovered, after research has been done to determine who the person was,
it has always been determined that the person was an extremely devout
Catholic. This inevitably leads to the question, How can the process of
decay, which has no intelligence, choose which bodies to devour and not to
devour, and why do they happen to be devout Catholics? This phenomena is
simply miraculous"
ASTOUNDING!!! Catholics and murkles!!!! Who woulda thunk it? That link is
overwhelming proof that you're a fucking mental cripple that would grasp at
any fucking straw to mould facts around your precious fiction to make it
seem real to any fucking retard as gullible as you.
On his planet Lenin was a Catholic.
Really?
Surely *everyone* knows that Lenin was a card carrying Mormon?
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| User: "navi-gater" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
30 Dec 2005 11:06:40 PM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in
news:pan.2005.12.31.03.24.37.624262@protestanterrors.com:
Take a look at this phenomena and let us know how this can be anything
other than supernatural:
http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
BH
Well let's have a look at this shall we ..... ahh a catlick website.....
So
1) Only devout catlicks are incorrupt.
FALSE - there are examples who were not 'lickers e.g. Paramahansa
Yogananda, a Hindu.
2) The majority of catlick saints are preserved
FALSE. In fact very few are so preserved. How do we know? Well for some
reason catlicks enjoy picking over dead folk and making all sorts of
spurious claims about the remains.
3) Saint Soubirous (the most "famous" preserved saint) is perfectly
preserved.
FALSE. This particular "saint" has a nice coat of wax on her and is kept
in an airtight casket... Even I'd look good after death treated to that
make-over.
4) Well these relics are preserved, they're all religous so there must
be something to it.
FALSE. Until you do a bit more grave robbing of jews, muslims and
especially atheists, how can anyone be sure only catlicks are preserved
(in fact we know for a *fact* that catlicks are not the only examples).
5) No one can explain this in any other way
FALSE. Decay is caused by the presence of sufficient air, moisture and
microbes to develop the process. The absence of one or more of these
elements can slow or halt the physical decay process. Since the
environments in the caskets were not measured in any scientific way, who
can say which one(s) of these elements was absent.
So we've got a false argument about religion influencing who is
preserved. Given that argument is false, a derivation to some
supernatural being is by extension false.
Unless of course, you have a *proof* to contrary.
gater.
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 05:51:38 PM |
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http://www.protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm
Well let's have a look at this shall we ..... ahh a catlick website.....
So
1) Only devout catlicks are incorrupt.
FALSE - there are examples who were not 'lickers e.g. Paramahansa
Yogananda, a Hindu.
Please provide proof and I will gladly read it. No one has done so yet.
2) The majority of catlick saints are preserved
FALSE. In fact very few are so preserved. How do we know? Well for some
reason catlicks enjoy picking over dead folk and making all sorts of
spurious claims about the remains.
I never said the majority are preserved. Only some are and I do not claim
to have an answer as to why some are and some are not. But I do claim this
phenomenon exists and you can read about it or look the other way like the
others in the forum.
3) Saint Soubirous (the most "famous" preserved saint) is perfectly
preserved.
FALSE. This particular "saint" has a nice coat of wax on her and is kept
in an airtight casket... Even I'd look good after death treated to that
make-over.
Not all incorruptibles are perfectly incorrupt. they vary. St. Soubirous
has been on display for close to a century now and has become slightly
discolored, while still remaining intact. They added wax to keep her
appearance presentable but that does not take away from the fact that she
was found incorrupt.
4) Well these relics are preserved, they're all religous so there must be
something to it.
FALSE. Until you do a bit more grave robbing of jews, muslims and
especially atheists, how can anyone be sure only catlicks are preserved
(in fact we know for a *fact* that catlicks are not the only examples).
I challenge you or anyone else to find a non-Catholic with the same exact
incorrupt phenomenon. You will not.
5) No one can explain this in any other way
FALSE. Decay is caused by the presence of sufficient air, moisture and
microbes to develop the process. The absence of one or more of these
elements can slow or halt the physical decay process. Since the
environments in the caskets were not measured in any scientific way, who
can say which one(s) of these elements was absent.
You clearly have not read up on this phenomenon. YOu really need to before
you can speak about it.
So we've got a false argument about religion influencing who is
preserved. Given that argument is false, a derivation to some
supernatural being is by extension false.
Unless of course, you have a *proof* to contrary.
Read the documentation from reputable people for the last 20 centuries,
publicly available. And of course the bodies are on display in Europe for
all to see as well
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| User: "Lisbeth Andersson" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
01 Jan 2006 05:36:51 PM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in
news:pan.2005.12.31.23.51.38.33496@protestanterrors.com:
<...>
3) Saint Soubirous (the most "famous" preserved saint) is
perfectly preserved.
FALSE. This particular "saint" has a nice coat of wax on her and
is kept in an airtight casket... Even I'd look good after death
treated to that make-over.
Not all incorruptibles are perfectly incorrupt. they vary. St.
Soubirous has been on display for close to a century now and has
become slightly discolored, while still remaining intact. They
added wax to keep her appearance presentable but that does not
take away from the fact that she was found incorrupt.
Slightly discoloured? She turned black the first time she was removed
from her coffin.
http://www.catholicpilgrims.com/lourdes/bb_bernadette_body.htm
Note that in 1919 they found calcium salt on the body. She might have
been incorrupt at the first exhumation, by now she is mummified and
covered by a vax mask. Or the salt could have already been there when
she was buried the first time, accidentally or not.
She's the only one I've found where it is possible to get any idea of
what is meant by "perfect" and what is being made to make the body
look acceptable today.
Damp conditions, sawdust and charcoal were mentioned on a few
occasions. I might get around to checking the preserving properties of
that someday.
<....>
Read the documentation from reputable people for the last 20
centuries, publicly available. And of course the bodies are on
display in Europe for all to see as well
<...>
Osanna of Manua? It's too bad when people copy pages without checking
the spelling of the essential parts.
http://www.overcomeproblems.com/incorruptables.htm
http://endofdayzprophet.journalspace.com/?b=1114930800&e=1115535600
and possibly: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?p=1521814
although I refuse to log in to check if it't another copy.
Mantua. Anybody who wants to see her has better check that the travel
schedule includes on of June 20, November 1, or the Sunday following
November 11. I don't think it will be possible to see very much on
those occasions.
Or "Saint Withburga - Died in 743 and incorrupt body was discovered 55
years later. Her remains were on display for over 300 more years
thereafter until *destroyed during the Reformation".
And of course: "Saint Agatha - Died in 251 and body was discovered
incorrupt in the eleventh century. *Parts of her incorrupt body are
still in existence today." I'm slightly curious which parts are not
considered essential for an incorrupt body.
Lisbeth.
----
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.
*What we know is not nearly as interesting as *how we know it.
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
01 Jan 2006 11:38:28 PM |
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This is just one instance. Try reading about the incorrupt bodies of St.
Frances Xavier and Pope Pius X via Google. Plenty of descriptions of the
examinations. These are not mummies but incorrupt, which are totally
different things. Non-Catholics do not experience this. If you think they
do, find an example, read into it and you will find it is mummification.
Incorruption and mummification are two different things.
Slightly discoloured? She turned black the first time she was removed from
her coffin.
http://www.catholicpilgrims.com/lourdes/bb_bernadette_body.htm Note that
in 1919 they found calcium salt on the body. She might have been incorrupt
at the first exhumation, by now she is mummified and covered by a vax
mask. Or the salt could have already been there when she was buried the
first time, accidentally or not.
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 12:28:49 AM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.02.05.38.24.967139@protestanterrors.com...
This is just one instance. Try reading about the incorrupt bodies of St.
Frances Xavier and Pope Pius X via Google. Plenty of descriptions of the
examinations. These are not mummies but incorrupt, which are totally
different things. Non-Catholics do not experience this. If you think they
do, find an example, read into it and you will find it is mummification.
Incorruption and mummification are two different things.
Slightly discoloured? She turned black the first time she was removed
from
her coffin.
http://www.catholicpilgrims.com/lourdes/bb_bernadette_body.htm Note that
in 1919 they found calcium salt on the body. She might have been
incorrupt
at the first exhumation, by now she is mummified and covered by a vax
mask. Or the salt could have already been there when she was buried the
first time, accidentally or not.
So she -was- an Incorruptible, but once her corpse was disturbed she became
a mummy? I wonder what transgression she committed (after death, no less!)
to warrant her change in favor with God? And did she suffer a commensurate
change in status with the Catholics after her demotion? Obviously she's out
of favor with God.
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 11:59:44 AM |
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This is just one instance. Try reading about the incorrupt bodies of St.
Frances Xavier and Pope Pius X via Google. Plenty of descriptions of the
examinations. These are not mummies but incorrupt, which are totally
different things. Non-Catholics do not experience this. If you think
they do, find an example, read into it and you will find it is
mummification. Incorruption and mummification are two different things.
So she -was- an Incorruptible, but once her corpse was disturbed she
became a mummy? I wonder what transgression she committed (after death, no
less!) to warrant her change in favor with God? And did she suffer a
commensurate change in status with the Catholics after her demotion?
Obviously she's out of favor with God.
If she WAS an incorruptible, that fact alone begs the question WHY.
Incorrupt means NO embalming and has nothing to do with mummification. It
is illogical to ignore why it happened in the first place, then put up
the smoke screen and focus on what happened after.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 06:50:13 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
If she WAS an incorruptible, that fact alone begs the question WHY.
Actually, I think it raises the question why she isn't anymore. What
changed? Type of storage, or did the god figure stop preserving here? Is
she in hell now?
Incorrupt means NO embalming
Actually it means
"free from corruption" and
"obsolete : not affected with decay "
It doesn't say anything about why it is free of decay.
But you knew this, right?
So the question remains: Why does something incorrupt decay?
and has nothing to do with mummification.
So you say. I'd ask for a cite, but I think it would be pointless.
(Hey, why don't you suprise me?)
It
is illogical to ignore why it happened in the first place,
True. So we can send a team of historians, with proper equipment, to
investigate the remains, right?
Oh, I forgot. You claim this has been done. But you won't tell me for
anything where the results are published. Apart of Google, and a
religious book no historian ever cited.
then put up
the smoke screen and focus on what happened after.
One could say that it is illogical to only concentrate on either event,
don't you think so? If truly a 'god' preserved a body, why did it stop?
If it wasn't, why are you here bothering us?
j.m.
#1491
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 12:31:25 PM |
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protestanterrors.com wrote:
This is just one instance. Try reading about the incorrupt bodies of St.
Frances Xavier and Pope Pius X via Google. Plenty of descriptions of the
examinations. These are not mummies but incorrupt, which are totally
different things. Non-Catholics do not experience this. If you think
they do, find an example, read into it and you will find it is
mummification. Incorruption and mummification are two different things.
So she -was- an Incorruptible, but once her corpse was disturbed she
became a mummy? I wonder what transgression she committed (after death, no
less!) to warrant her change in favor with God? And did she suffer a
commensurate change in status with the Catholics after her demotion?
Obviously she's out of favor with God.
If she WAS an incorruptible, that fact alone begs the question WHY.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html
"Also Known as: Circular Reasoning, Reasoning in a Circle, Petitio
Principii.
"Description of Begging the Question
"Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the
claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume
that the conclusion is true. This sort of "reasoning" typically has the
following form.
"Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the truth
of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).
"Claim C (the conclusion) is true.
"This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that
the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does
not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming
a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim. This is
especially clear in particularly blatant cases: "X is true. The
evidence for this claim is that X is true.""
See, that's what YOU'RE doing; you claim this phenomenon is proved
miraculous because the bodies are on display, and that they're on
display because they're miraculous. You have NOT established that any
of these bodies were actually incorruptible, and there is evidence
slapping you in the face that in fact none of them were. You have NOT
established that this ONLY happens to catholics, and there is evidence
kicking you in the shins that at the very least it's happened to
Buddhists. You have NOT established that there is anything other than
a natural process occurring. You just keep asserting it.
Incorrupt means NO embalming and has nothing to do with mummification.
Incorrupt means they shouldn't have decayed at all; too bad that isn't
actually happening. You haven't proven this has nothing to do with
mummifcation, you just keep claiming it.
It is illogical to ignore why it happened in the first place, then put up
the smoke screen and focus on what happened after.
That's funny, you claiming somthing is illogical. Rational
explanations have been given and evidence refuting you presented, which
you ignore and shout "But they're on display!" Yeah, that proves it.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 06:38:35 PM |
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JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort wrote:
You have NOT
established that this ONLY happens to catholics, and there is evidence
kicking you in the shins that at the very least it's happened to
Buddhists.
Not to mention that the Eastern Orthodox Church calls this bodies
vampires. For all we know, they dig them up daily, just to stake them,
cut their head of and boil it in vinegar or throw poppy seeds in the coffin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire#Slavic_vampires
And, Mr/Ms "protestanterrors.com", you have been pointed in this
direction already, and failed to even comment on it.
j.m.
#1491
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
02 Jan 2006 06:29:36 PM |
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I'd appreciate if you could answer Lisbeth question:
Lisbeth Andersson wrote:
And of course: "Saint Agatha - Died in 251 and body was discovered
incorrupt in the eleventh century. *Parts of her incorrupt body are
still in existence today." I'm slightly curious which parts are not
considered essential for an incorrupt body.
Thanks,
j.m.
#1491
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| User: "navi-gater" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 06:59:46 PM |
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"protestanterrors.com" <bhlincoln@protestanterrors.com> wrote in
news:pan.2005.12.31.23.51.38.33496@protestanterrors.com:
So
1) Only devout catlicks are incorrupt.
FALSE - there are examples who were not 'lickers e.g. Paramahansa
Yogananda, a Hindu.
Please provide proof and I will gladly read it. No one has done so
yet.
Then your research is lacking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy#Natural_mummies
2) The majority of catlick saints are preserved
FALSE. In fact very few are so preserved. How do we know? Well for
some reason catlicks enjoy picking over dead folk and making all
sorts of spurious claims about the remains.
I never said the majority are preserved. Only some are and I do not
claim to have an answer as to why some are and some are not.
Wait a moment - you *do* claim to have the answer. You want to attribute
it to a supwernatural cause like a deity.
We know that is impossible though...
But I do
claim this phenomenon exists and you can read about it or look the
other way like the others in the forum.
I'm not looking the other way. I've pointed out this phenomenon is not
limited to catlicks and in fact can be rather easily explained.
3) Saint Soubirous (the most "famous" preserved saint) is perfectly
preserved.
FALSE. This particular "saint" has a nice coat of wax on her and is
kept in an airtight casket... Even I'd look good after death treated
to that make-over.
Not all incorruptibles are perfectly incorrupt. they vary. St.
Soubirous has been on display for close to a century now and has
become slightly discolored, while still remaining intact. They added
wax to keep her appearance presentable but that does not take away
from the fact that she was found incorrupt.
And? South American bodies have been found perfectly intact after
centuries. Those being Inca bodies btw no catlicking involved. The
soubiros con required waxing to *preserve* the cadaver.
Surely the catlick god can preserve a body where and when it wants, why
the need for wax? Because those who did the grave robbing know that
nature will indeed take it course one way or the other.
4) Well these relics are preserved, they're all religous so there
must be something to it.
FALSE. Until you do a bit more grave robbing of jews, muslims and
especially atheists, how can anyone be sure only catlicks are
preserved (in fact we know for a *fact* that catlicks are not the
only examples).
I challenge you or anyone else to find a non-Catholic with the same
exact incorrupt phenomenon. You will not.
So now it has to be the "same exact" incorruption. Well you're changing
your goal now - orginally it just had to be explained - that's been
done. But the answer irritates you, so you want more...
I answer with 2 points,
1) There *are* examples of bodies preserved without the unnatural aids
the catlicks apply to their saints.
2) The catlick saints themselves are not *exactly* the same, each
displaying various levels of decay...
5) No one can explain this in any other way
FALSE. Decay is caused by the presence of sufficient air, moisture
and microbes to develop the process. The absence of one or more of
these elements can slow or halt the physical decay process. Since the
environments in the caskets were not measured in any scientific way,
who can say which one(s) of these elements was absent.
You clearly have not read up on this phenomenon. YOu really need to
before you can speak about it.
Heh. <Inca>.
So we've got a false argument about religion influencing who is
preserved. Given that argument is false, a derivation to some
supernatural being is by extension false.
Unless of course, you have a *proof* to contrary.
Read the documentation from reputable people for the last 20
centuries, publicly available. And of course the bodies are on display
in Europe for all to see as well
Do you have any *proof*?
Your catlick sources are hardly credible yet you believe them. You are a
sucker - your religion suits you.
gater.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
01 Jan 2006 05:24:40 AM |
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Surely the catlick god can preserve a body where and when it wants, why
the need for wax? Because those who did the grave robbing know that
nature will indeed take it course one way or the other.
it makes it nice and shiny?
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| User: "protestanterrors.com" |
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| Title: Re: Challenge for atheists |
31 Dec 2005 09:58:00 PM |
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Please provide proof and I will gladly read it. No one has done so yet.
Then your research is lacking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy#Natural_mummies
Your link provides information on mummies which I know about. If you read
on the subject you will see mummies are always distorted, foul-smelling
and not life-like. Incorruptibles are just the opposite; lifelike, sweet
smelling, even with flowing blood. The proof is there for you.
But I do
claim this phenomenon exists and you can read about it or look the other
way like the others in the forum.
I'm not looking the other way. I've pointed out this phenomenon is not
limited to catlicks and in fact can be rather easily explained.
You clearly do not know the difference between accidental mummification,
intentional mummification, and incorruptibles. My site explains it and
plenty of documentation exists explaining the differences.
3) Saint Soubirous (the most "famous" preserved saint) is perfectly
preserved.
FALSE. This particular "saint" has a nice coat of wax on her and is
kept in an airtight casket... Even I'd look good after death treated
to that make-over.
Not all incorruptibles are perfectly incorrupt. they vary. St.
Soubirous has been on display for close to a century now and has become
slightly discolored, while still remaining intact. They added wax to
keep her appearance presentable but that does not take away from the
fact that she was found incorrupt.
And? South American bodies have been found perfectly intact after
centuries. Those being Inca bodies btw no catlicking involved. The
soubiros con required waxing to *preserve* the cadaver.
My same comment above applies here; you are clearly not familiar with the
differences. And wax does not preserve a body....go ahead and try and put
wax on a dead person, they will still decay. St. Soubirous, when examined
has NO embalming and is still very lifelike. You can continue to try and
make excuses from your computer chair but it will not change the facts
that exist for all to see in Italy.
I challenge you or anyone else to find a non-Catholic with the same
exact incorrupt phenomenon. You will not.
So now it has to be the "same exact" incorruption. Well you're changing
your goal now - orginally it just had to be explained - that's been
done. But the answer irritates you, so you want more...
I chose poor wording here. Learn about what makes the incorrupt phenomenom
different than mummification, then show me an example of ANY non-Catholic
that falls under the incorrupt category. You will not find one.
I answer with 2 points,
1) There *are* examples of bodies preserved without the unnatural aids
the catlicks apply to their saints.
Examples?
2) The catlick saints themselves are not *exactly* the same, each
displaying various levels of decay...
Read the documentation from reputable people for the last 20 centuries,
publicly available. And of course the bodies are on display in Europe
for all to see as well
Do you have any *proof*?
Your catlick sources are hardly credible yet you believe them. You are a
sucker - your religion suits you.
gater.
Seeing them firsthand and reading documentation from non-religous people
is not enough for you huh?
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