| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"ernobe" |
| Date: |
29 Nov 2004 05:13:16 PM |
| Object: |
Characterization of Atheism |
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be characteristic of
many different people, of a specific group of people, or of individuals.
Each of these may be characterized as atheist without any other distinction,
as if mens' only existence was that of an animal. There is therefore an absence
of belief, not only in the existence of gods in atheism, but also an absence
of the belief that human beings are social animals. For this reason, all
religions from their inception have been primarily social movements.
--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
29 Nov 2004 10:14:24 PM |
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"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:311oocF36p0k8U2@uni-berlin.de...
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of
gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be characteristic
of
many different people, of a specific group of people, or of individuals.
i can live with this...
Each of these may be characterized as atheist without any other
distinction,
as if mens' only existence was that of an animal.
we *are* animals...social (most of the time)....but animals yes
there is therefore an absence
of belief, not only in the existence of gods in atheism, but also an
absence
of the belief that human beings are social animals.
bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzttttttttttttt !
your logic is flawed here - a lack of belief in a god *does not* preclude
the acceptance of a human society.
im sorry - do not pass go....do not collect $200
For this reason, all
religions from their inception have been primarily social movements.
No .... they have been movements to give power to certain individuals and to
keep the rest of the *sheep* in the flock where there are supposed to be.
Thank you for dropping by and please call in again should you feel the need
steve
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 12:23:48 PM |
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your logic is flawed here - a lack of belief in a god *does not* preclude
the acceptance of a human society.
Any god can supply your lack of belief in him and show himself whether you
believe in him or not. Your god tells others that you have chosen to lack
belief in him, and since gods rule human society, you remove yourself from
it by your disbelief.
--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 04:38:51 PM |
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"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:313s5kF2qghl9U2@uni-berlin.de...
your logic is flawed here - a lack of belief in a god *does not*
preclude
the acceptance of a human society.
Any god can supply your lack of belief in him and show himself whether you
believe in him or not.
So you are saying your god *made* me an athiest....and then is going to
toast me for eternity ? - kinda fucked up dont ya think ? This is the same
all loving god you guys rave on about all the time right ?
Your god tells others that you have chosen to lack
belief in him, and since gods rule human society, you remove yourself from
it by your disbelief.
I have not removed myself from society - according to your twisted logic
your god has removed me. I guess hat blows the free will argument right out
the window and we are all predestined by your god.
--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
You should be careful with twisting yourself outa shape with this contorted
arguments - i think your genitals may be getting a bit too close to your
mouth.
Stee
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 02:54:46 PM |
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"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:313s5kF2qghl9U2@uni-berlin.de...
your logic is flawed here - a lack of belief in a god *does not* preclude
the acceptance of a human society.
Any god can supply your lack of belief in him and show himself whether you
believe in him or not. Your god tells others that you have chosen to lack
belief in him, and since gods rule human society, you remove yourself from
it by your disbelief.
Don't confuse being a member of your particular lunatic fringe group with
being a member of humanity. I have plenty of documented evidence that I am a
member of human society. I am sure any atheist on this NG can provide the
same. I work, I pay taxes, I have a family, I vote, I have lots of friends,
I know lots of people, I volunteer, I play team sports. You must realize
that you have made an absurd statement. In fact, I'd like you to find me one
human who is not a member of human society.
Since I don't believe in any god(s), and I AM part of human society, god(s)
cannot rule human society, according to your atrociously bad logic. Either
there is no god(s) or god(s) are not all-powerful, in which case they would
not be god(s) anyway. I think it is the former.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 09:59:29 PM |
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In our last episode <313s5kF2qghl9U2@uni-berlin.de>, ernobe lept out of
the bushes shouting:
your logic is flawed here - a lack of belief in a god *does not*
preclude the acceptance of a human society.
Any god can supply your lack of belief in him and show himself whether you
believe in him or not. Your god tells others that you have chosen to lack
belief in him, and since gods rule human society, you remove yourself from
it by your disbelief.
There are no gods to rule anything and I'm not going anywhere.
By the way, you're an idiot.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
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| User: "steve" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 12:41:59 PM |
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| Any god can supply your lack of belief in him and show himself whether you
| believe in him or not. Your god tells others that you have chosen to lack
| belief in him, and since gods rule human society, you remove yourself from
| it by your disbelief.
as god remains not in evidence, there is no merit constituting or demanding
one's responsibility in affixing belief to such notions thereof. in other
words, the belief that god exists is valueless until god herself is
substanciated. atheists are not removing themselves from anything. rather,
we are more than reluctant to support any such notion until said notion is
in fact, believable.
there is no evidence for god. what most theists consider evidence in no way
establishes any clear intentions of god toward man...lest we have one
religion or at least many that are non-exclusive and non-conflicting in the
understanding of said entity.
your assumptions of what it is to be atheist are wholly incorrect. simply
stated.
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 05:35:13 PM |
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your assumptions of what it is to be atheist are wholly incorrect. simply
stated.
Atheism is to affirm that there is no evidence of God. Theism is to believe
that evidence of the existence of God is possible, by those who examine such
evidences as have been provided by theists.
--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 10:01:38 PM |
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In our last episode <314edhF36sq6sU2@individual.net>, ernobe lept out of
the bushes shouting:
your assumptions of what it is to be atheist are wholly incorrect.
simply stated.
Atheism is to affirm that there is no evidence of God. Theism is to
believe that evidence of the existence of God is possible, by those who
examine such evidences as have been provided by theists.
Affirm? The only thing I "affirm" is you're at least 50% less bright than
you think you are...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
29 Nov 2004 08:07:35 PM |
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"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:311oocF36p0k8U2@uni-berlin.de...
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of
gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be characteristic
of
many different people, of a specific group of people, or of individuals.
Each of these may be characterized as atheist without any other
distinction,
as if mens' only existence was that of an animal. There is therefore an
absence
of belief, not only in the existence of gods in atheism, but also an
absence
of the belief that human beings are social animals. For this reason, all
religions from their inception have been primarily social movements.
--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
If atheism is so characterized, it doesn't follow that (they) are
characterized without any further distinction. So your argument is
annoyingly asinine.
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
29 Nov 2004 10:58:32 PM |
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"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:311oocF36p0k8U2@uni-berlin.de...
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of
gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
So far, so good.
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be characteristic
of
many different people, of a specific group of people, or of individuals.
Not bad for a newbie. You're two-for-two.
Each of these may be characterized as atheist without any other
distinction,
as if mens' only existence was that of an animal. There is therefore an
absence
of belief, not only in the existence of gods in atheism, but also an
absence
of the belief that human beings are social animals.
What the hell? This is like adding three-plus-three and getting
'applejuice.'
For this reason, all
religions from their inception have been primarily social movements.
You blew it, kid.
Religions have had a number of uses, from pacifying the flock to scaring the
flock to fleecing the flock.
It (as it pertains to most western religions) gives idiots a warm blanket to
help them deal with the chill of their imminent death, and explains all
those things that go bump in the night....at least until some scientist
turned on the damn light for them.
It also gives the bigots some sort of justification to hate in the manner in
which they are so adept.
Yes, it has served useful purposes to some degree or another, and a social
gathering is certainly a good example. But somehow extrapolating out to your
conclusion requires chemicals that are certainly illegal in the US.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 09:58:17 PM |
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In our last episode <311oocF36p0k8U2@uni-berlin.de>, ernobe lept out of
the bushes shouting:
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of
gods." http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be characteristic
of many different people, of a specific group of people, or of
individuals. Each of these may be characterized as atheist without any
other distinction, as if mens' only existence was that of an animal. There
is therefore an absence of belief, not only in the existence of gods in
atheism, but also an absence of the belief that human beings are social
animals. For this reason, all religions from their inception have been
primarily social movements.
Not a word of that made any ***** sense...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 12:06:45 AM |
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On 29 Nov 2004 23:13:16 GMT, ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> said in
alt.atheism:
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be characteristic of
many different people, of a specific group of people, or of individuals.
Each of these may be characterized as atheist without any other distinction,
as if mens' only existence was that of an animal.
Since man isn't so characterized, the analogy isn't.
--
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its
side."
- Celsus On the True Doctrine, translated by R. Joseph Hoffman, Oxford University Press, 1987
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Liberator Veritatis" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
01 Dec 2004 11:00:26 PM |
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On 29 Nov 2004 23:13:16 GMT, ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be characteristic of
many different people, of a specific group of people, or of individuals.
Each of these may be characterized as atheist without any other distinction,
as if mens' only existence was that of an animal. There is therefore an absence
of belief, not only in the existence of gods in atheism, but also an absence
of the belief that human beings are social animals. For this reason, all
religions from their inception have been primarily social movements.
The fact that atheism may be characteristic of many different people
doesn't imply that man's existence was that of an animal. And such a
conclusion still would not imply that atheism is really "all about" or
"driven by" this implication (that man's existence was that of an
animal). And even if it did imply all of this, such a thing would not
indicate some sort of rejection of the social aspect of human
existence (as if the existence social phenomena makes us different
from animals). And this entire train of thought about atheism, really
doesn't imply anything about religions.
Nevertheless, it is true that religions have primarily been social
movements.
--
Liberator Veritatis
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
01 Dec 2004 11:50:07 PM |
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The fact that atheism may be characteristic of many different people
doesn't imply that man's existence was that of an animal.
Of course not. If they were a specific, organized group of people, there
would however be every reason to believe so. At present, they seem to rally
around specific causes ( the anti-Christian movement, or anti-what have you
movement ). However, since man did not actually evolve from animals, they
must sooner or later realize that their movement is nothing but a degenerate
form of Christianity itself.
--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
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| User: "sAnToLiNa" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
02 Dec 2004 10:23:33 PM |
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ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:317oofF37pfk6U1@individual.net...
The fact that atheism may be characteristic of many different people
doesn't imply that man's existence was that of an animal.
However, since man did not actually evolve from animals,
Correct again. Humans did not evolve "from" animals, they ARE animals.
Keep up the good work.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 12:41:15 PM |
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On 29 Nov 2004 23:13:16 GMT, ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be characteristic of
many different people, of a specific group of people, or of individuals.
Each of these may be characterized as atheist without any other distinction,
as if mens' only existence was that of an animal. There is therefore an absence
of belief, not only in the existence of gods in atheism, but also an absence
of the belief that human beings are social animals. For this reason, all
religions from their inception have been primarily social movements.
You are correct, we do not believe man is a social animal, we KNOW
man is a social animal. We are totally dependant on one another.
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 03:05:14 PM |
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On Mon 29 Nov 2004 05:13:16p, ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> kicked back with
a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep, woke up, lit up a joint, then
fell asleep again after thoughtfully blurting out:
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of
gods." http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be
characteristic of many different people, of a specific group of
people, or of individuals. Each of these may be characterized as
atheist without any other distinction, as if mens' only existence was
that of an animal. There is therefore an absence of belief, not only
in the existence of gods in atheism, but also an absence of the belief
that human beings are social animals. For this reason, all religions
from their inception have been primarily social movements.
Special pleading. The same can be said of Christianity, thus if atheism
rejects the idea that humans are social animals, then so does
Christianity. Of course, your logic is flawed and moronic, and neither
atheism nor Christianity disproves the fact that humans are social
animals -- I just wanted to point out that even if your logic is
correct, you're still an idiot :)
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
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| User: "sAnToLiNa" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 10:46:31 PM |
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ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:311oocF36p0k8U2@uni-berlin.de...
as if mens' only existence was that of an animal.
Correct. You're on a roll, keep it up.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
01 Dec 2004 10:28:10 AM |
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In our last episode <3150m4F305gthU1@individual.net>, sAnToLiNa lept out
of the bushes shouting:
ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:311oocF36p0k8U2@uni-berlin.de...
as if mens' only existence was that of an animal.
Correct. You're on a roll, keep it up.
Ernobe's existence, however, appears to be closer to that of a fern...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
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| User: "navi-gater" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
29 Nov 2004 05:45:00 PM |
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ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in news:311oocF36p0k8U2@uni-berlin.de:
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of
gods." http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be
characteristic of many different people, of a specific group of
people, or of individuals. Each of these may be characterized as
atheist without any other distinction, as if mens' only existence was
that of an animal. There is therefore an absence of belief, not only
in the existence of gods in atheism, but also an absence of the belief
that human beings are social animals. For this reason, all religions
from their inception have been primarily social movements.
"Animals" (or better yet, animals other than Humans) have perfectly well
developed social interdependencies - in fact the entire natural environment
is characterised by the intra and inter-dependencies of the species.
However other animals are "better" than Humans in at least one regard -
they haven't invented religion in order to justify spreading misery to
their fellows.
How's about you try again...
gater.
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| User: "Energumen" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 02:52:02 PM |
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"navi-gater" <gater@the-gate.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95B0BEBEB8064thegatenet@65.32.5.122...
ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in news:311oocF36p0k8U2@uni-berlin.de:
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of
gods." http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized, it follows that it may be
characteristic of many different people, of a specific group of
people, or of individuals. Each of these may be characterized as
atheist without any other distinction, as if mens' only existence was
that of an animal. There is therefore an absence of belief, not only
in the existence of gods in atheism, but also an absence of the belief
that human beings are social animals. For this reason, all religions
from their inception have been primarily social movements.
"Animals" (or better yet, animals other than Humans) have perfectly well
developed social interdependencies - in fact the entire natural
environment
is characterised by the intra and inter-dependencies of the species.
However other animals are "better" than Humans in at least one regard -
they haven't invented religion in order to justify spreading misery to
their fellows.
All non-human animals are Taoists.
Prove me wrong.
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| User: "navi-gater" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 03:38:52 PM |
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"Energumen" <ener_gumen@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:41acdd73$0$50879
$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:
All non-human animals are Taoists.
Prove me wrong.
I guess you don't understand how this works.
You made the assertion, it is up to you to prove it.
gater.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 04:57:29 PM |
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ernobe wrote:
"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods."
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
If atheism is so characterized ...
What do you mean if?? Is there any doubt? Atheists are godless. That's
all there is to it.
Agnostics, who are also atheist, go one step further than others who are
atheist to actively deny and repudiate, on principle, religious belief
in the existence of gods:
"That which Agnostics deny and repudiate, as immoral, is the contrary
doctrine, that there are propositions which men ought to believe,
without logically satisfactory evidence." -- Thomas Huxley, who coined
the term 'agnostic', in his excoriation of the Christian belief,
"Agnosticism and Christianity"
http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE5/Agn-X.html
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without
evidence." -- Thomas Huxley, Evolution and Ethics
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Characterization of Atheism |
30 Nov 2004 07:25:38 PM |
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In article <tV6rd.492580$D%.78936@attbi_s51>,
"eggs@nospam.com" <eggs@nospam.com> wrote:
ernobe wrote:
If atheism is so characterized ...
What do you ...
Snip for snip!
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