| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Eris" |
| Date: |
06 Jan 2005 07:11:12 PM |
| Object: |
Charlie Wilson's War |
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
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| User: "qwerty" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
06 Jan 2005 07:40:16 PM |
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"Eris" <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vt2rt01eetjhegvh21opc1i0lsrtsp9rrq@4ax.com...
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Didn't they get their flight training at Florida schools? When do we attack
Florida & arrest Jeb?
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| User: "Faster Trollercat" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
06 Jan 2005 08:27:47 PM |
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"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:AugDd.7793$yV1.5362@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
"Eris" <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vt2rt01eetjhegvh21opc1i0lsrtsp9rrq@4ax.com...
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Didn't they get their flight training at Florida schools? When do we
attack
Florida & arrest Jeb?
Why arrest him? George would just tell the Pugs that a tsunami hit Floriduh
and send Jebby a couple hundred million $$$ and get the radio & TV liars to
tell America it's true.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
06 Jan 2005 07:55:29 PM |
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:40:16 GMT, "qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com>
wrote:
"Eris" <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vt2rt01eetjhegvh21opc1i0lsrtsp9rrq@4ax.com...
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Didn't they get their flight training at Florida schools? When do we attack
Florida & arrest Jeb?
Filtering through all the information and misinformation, it looks as
though it was an "intelligence" operation that went wrong. The flight
schools in Florida have a strange history.
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| User: "Larry Heath" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
06 Jan 2005 10:41:15 PM |
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"Eris" <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vt2rt01eetjhegvh21opc1i0lsrtsp9rrq@4ax.com...
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Do you think it might be appropriate to provide at least a little bit of
documentation indicating the validity of this statement. While I think
there are many sources for documentation indicating that Saddam Hussein was
not involved in training the terrorists who perpetrated 911, or any
terrorist for that matter, it is highly doubtful that the CIA had any hand
in it. What is it, do you think that the CIA paid for the flight schooling
in Florida?
Documentation, documentation, we need to see some documentation, to even
begin to believe this incredibly bizarre statement to be true.
What is it with the Rush Limbaugh cross post, do you think anybody there
would honestly believe any of the statements.
Later Larry
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
07 Jan 2005 12:22:21 AM |
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On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:41:15 -0500, "Larry Heath" <lgheath@comcast.net>
wrote:
"Eris" <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vt2rt01eetjhegvh21opc1i0lsrtsp9rrq@4ax.com...
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Do you think it might be appropriate to provide at least a little bit of
documentation indicating the validity of this statement.
For alt.atheism,yes of course, for alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, no of course
not.
The point the author is making, and I have only listened to the first
twenty minutes, is that the only common link that the terrorist of
9/11 had was that they were trained in Afghanistan. The people
training the Muslim fundamentalists were of course the American CIA,
who also supplied them with all of the weapons they could possibly
want.
The author goes on to state that after the last Russian left
Afghanistan, the religious fundamentalist praised Allah, not the U.S.
While I think
there are many sources for documentation indicating that Saddam Hussein was
not involved in training the terrorists who perpetrated 911, or any
terrorist for that matter, it is highly doubtful that the CIA had any hand
in it. What is it, do you think that the CIA paid for the flight schooling
in Florida?
Documentation, documentation, we need to see some documentation, to even
begin to believe this incredibly bizarre statement to be true.
Seems logical to me, the Russians obviously didn't train them. That
leaves the CIA
What is it with the Rush Limbaugh cross post, do you think anybody there
would honestly believe any of the statements.
No but it is fun to gore their ox for a while.
Later Larry
Thanks for the post.
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| User: "Larry Heath" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
08 Jan 2005 06:52:58 PM |
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"Eris" <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:r3lrt0d8itafeguk7388jbqiv3p48pqonn@4ax.com...
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:41:15 -0500, "Larry Heath" <lgheath@comcast.net>
wrote:
"Eris" <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vt2rt01eetjhegvh21opc1i0lsrtsp9rrq@4ax.com...
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Do you think it might be appropriate to provide at least a little bit of
documentation indicating the validity of this statement.
For alt.atheism,yes of course, for alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, no of course
not.
The point the author is making, and I have only listened to the first
twenty minutes, is that the only common link that the terrorist of
9/11 had was that they were trained in Afghanistan. The people
training the Muslim fundamentalists were of course the American CIA,
who also supplied them with all of the weapons they could possibly
want.
The author goes on to state that after the last Russian left
Afghanistan, the religious fundamentalist praised Allah, not the U.S.
While I think
there are many sources for documentation indicating that Saddam Hussein
was
not involved in training the terrorists who perpetrated 911, or any
terrorist for that matter, it is highly doubtful that the CIA had any hand
in it. What is it, do you think that the CIA paid for the flight
schooling
in Florida?
Documentation, documentation, we need to see some documentation, to even
begin to believe this incredibly bizarre statement to be true.
Seems logical to me, the Russians obviously didn't train them. That
leaves the CIA
What is it with the Rush Limbaugh cross post, do you think anybody there
would honestly believe any of the statements.
No but it is fun to gore their ox for a while.
Later Larry
Thanks for the post.
While I have no doubt that the CIA trained many people in Afghanistan, I
feel it a bit of a stretch that the hijackers of 911 were actually trained
for their specific mission to take out the twin towers by anybody in the
CIA. At least the original post seems to intimate this. Yes, I think there
may be a tangential relationships between CIA and many of the fighters,
mujahedin, in Afghanistan during the Afghan Russian war, this one trained
that one, that one trained the next one, how many generations are we
talking about here. I think that this same relationship may be found in many
many places throughout the world. I think that if you scratch hard enough at
almost any unsavory situation, anywhere in the world, long enough, you most
likely will find some sort of relationship to the CIA somewhere along the
line. I still feel that the relationship between the CIA and 911 hijackers
is ephemeral at best.
While I don't feel if there is any direct collusion between the US
government and the 911 hijackers, it would not surprise me too greatly to
find that the Bush administration may have had more
than just inklings about the 911 debacle, prior to its happening, and simply
let it transpire as it would. With the documented history of the Christians
Church's doing just about anything to achieve their goals, this does not
seem too far-fetched for the current administration, given their current
fundamentalist Christian nature and obvious Machiavellian cutthroat
political machinations, the mixture of the two is quite terrifying, or at
least should be to most thinking people, in my opinion.
How about a link to this book that you're talking about, I didn't see it in
the first post.
As far as the Rush Limbaugh crew goes, I am of the opinion most of those
people have their heads planted so far up their own butts, most of them can
see their own tonsils, and consequently can't see much of anything else.
It's hardly worth the effort of stirring their pot.
Later Larry
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| User: "Little Me" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
06 Jan 2005 07:16:51 PM |
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I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
LOL
It's okay, Bush attacks everything eventually.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
07 Jan 2005 12:39:08 AM |
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:11:12 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Citations, please.
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
07 Jan 2005 02:17:55 PM |
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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 00:39:08 GMT, raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:11:12 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Citations, please.
Overwhelming number of citations, each with their own bias.
I think the facts are that we armed hundreds of thousands of what the
Russians felt were clearly terrorists and after the Russians departed,
we found out to our dismay that these people were also terrorists to
us.
The arms and training we gave to the muhajeen, have and will continue
to used against us.
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| User: "Andy Weaks" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
07 Jan 2005 05:39:05 PM |
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Eris wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 00:39:08 GMT, raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:11:12 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Citations, please.
Overwhelming number of citations, each with their own bias.
I think the facts are that we armed hundreds of thousands of what the
Russians felt were clearly terrorists and after the Russians departed,
we found out to our dismay that these people were also terrorists to
us.
The arms and training we gave to the muhajeen, have and will continue
to used against us.
Everyone should read Ghost Wars too.
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
07 Jan 2005 03:43:40 PM |
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raven1 wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:11:12 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in
Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Citations, please.
Do a search for "stinger" on this page -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_Afghanistan
Or here -
http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/bustersbattery/militrivia/MILITRIVIA42.html
Or here -
http://afghanland.com/history/ussr.html
here -
http://www.khyber.org/pashtohistory/invasionofussr.shtml
here -
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/108.html
Here is a page detailing CIA involvemnet -
http://hnn.us/articles/1491.html
"However, he never mentions that the "tens of thousands of fanatical
Muslim fundamentalists" the CIA armed are some of the same people who
in 1996 killed 19 American airmen at Dhahran, Saudi Arabia; bombed our
embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998; blew a hole in the side of the
U.S. destroyer Cole in Aden harbor in 2000; and on Sept. 11, 2001, flew
hijacked airliners into New York's World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
Today, the world awaits what is almost certain to happen soon at some
airport -- a terrorist firing a U.S. Stinger low-level surface-to-air
missile (manufactured at one time by General Dynamics in Rancho
Cucamonga) into an American jumbo jet. The CIA supplied thousands of
them to the moujahedeen and trained them to be experts in their use. If
the CIA's activities in Afghanistan are a "success story," then Enron
should be considered a model of corporate behavior."
This one is short and sweet -
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/RSblowback.html
Do I need to go on or can you just search Google yourself? Try
combinations of "afghanistan" "USSR" "stinger" "CIA".
jwk
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Charlie Wilson's War |
07 Jan 2005 03:26:43 PM |
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raven1 wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:11:12 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
I just started listening to this book. It is about Afghanastan,
Fastinating. Apparently the 9/11 hijackers were trained in
Afganistan,
not by Saddam but directly or indirectly by the CIA.
So we should attack the CIA.
Citations, please.
Good reading here -
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/A/AfghanW1ar.asp
But this one seems slightly fuller -
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761588418/Taliban.html
"The Taliban movement emerged out of the chaos and uncertainty of the
Afghan-Soviet War (1979-1989) and subsequent civil war in Afghanistan.
During the 1980s Afghanistan was occupied by the Union of Soviet
Socialist Republics (USSR) and ruled by a Soviet-backed government.
Afghanistan's long war with the USSR was largely fought by mujahideen
(Islamic guerrilla) factions with assistance from the United States;
Pakistan also provided places of refuge, military training, and other
support. After the Soviets completed their withdrawal in 1989, civil
war broke out between the mujahideen factions and the central
government. Afghanistan's central government had long been dominated
by the country's majority ethnic group, the Pashtuns, but after the
Soviet withdrawal a coalition government that included Tajiks, Uzbeks,
Hazaras, and other minority groups came to power. The Taliban emerged
as a faction of mujahideen soldiers who identified themselves as
religious students."
When they say "assistance from the United States" they mean financial
support. We gave them both money and guns. (You may have heard a
newscaster say how some of our own ordinance was being used against us
in Afghanistan. We gave them Stinger shoulder-fired rocket to fight
tanks, for instance. Although I'd be surprised if they had many of
those left.) However it is well know (if you are both old enough and
the type to throughly read good newspapers) that the CIA provided
"military advisors" to help train the mujahideen.
This source -
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/03/15/mondo-ridgeway.php
is a little one-sided maybe, but it also recalls the mukahideen as "US
sponsored".
*This source -
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB57/essay.html
is probably the best. Although it takes a soft-line approach (as
opposed to the hard-line in the previous source) and only hints at some
of the things that I considered common knowledge back then. (Of course
I consider it to be common knowledge that Iraq had nothing to do with
9/11, but I just heard some cow on TV last night blaming them.) It
(this article) particurally details the (publicly acknowledged portion)
of the CIA's involvement.
"The CIA was especially resistant to calls for providing the mujahidin
with U.S.-made weaponry. Traditionally, the Agency purchased foreign,
usually Soviet-styled, weaponry in order to "plausibly deny" U.S.
involvement if the need arose. Throughout the Afghan war, the CIA
purchased Soviet-designed weapons from Egypt, China and elsewhere and
transported them to Pakistan. Cables reveal that Chinese and Egyptian
AK-47 rifles and SA-7 anti-aircraft missiles arrived in Pakistan as
early as 1980. This covert purchasing process not only covered U.S.
tracks, but ensured the availability of weapons that were compatible
with the kind captured by the rebels from their Soviet-supplied
enemies."
Notice the use of qualifying words like "resistant" and
"traditionally"? They endorsed a policy of supplying Soviet made
weapons, but they supplied plenty of US made ones.
jwk
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