| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"The Arch Atheist" |
| Date: |
02 Apr 2005 05:29:53 AM |
| Object: |
China: School trips to watch death sentences |
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 04:19:35 PM |
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The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
The U.S. already has audiences for executions, AFAIK.
~Iain
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 05:50:27 PM |
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"Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1112458775.724855.193860
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
The U.S. already has audiences for executions, AFAIK.
Press and legal witnesses, so as to ensure that the process is done
according to the law.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 05:44:01 AM |
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The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
Bob Dog
-----
Divine retribution is an idol threat.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 01:46:15 PM |
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wrote in news:1112420641.385324.149800
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
When was the last one?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 01:53:54 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:46:15 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in news:1112420641.385324.149800
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
When was the last one?
Aug. 14, 1936. Rainey Bethea. Convicted of the murder of 70-year-old
widow in Owensboro, Ky.
Still, I suppose if you're going to have the death penalty there a
very strong case for making sure it's as public as possible.
.
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| User: "The Arch Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 02:05:25 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 14:53:54 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Aug. 14, 1936. Rainey Bethea. Convicted of the murder of 70-year-old
widow in Owensboro, Ky.
Still, I suppose if you're going to have the death penalty there a
very strong case for making sure it's as public as possible.
I think you're likely to make more mentally disturbed killers than
you'd discourage...
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 02:22:46 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 16:05:25 +0200 in alt.atheism, The Arch Atheist
(The Arch Atheist <popeundercover@holysee.va>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 14:53:54 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Aug. 14, 1936. Rainey Bethea. Convicted of the murder of 70-year-old
widow in Owensboro, Ky.
Still, I suppose if you're going to have the death penalty there a
very strong case for making sure it's as public as possible.
I think you're likely to make more mentally disturbed killers than
you'd discourage...
Why?
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 05:50:11 PM |
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Therion Ware wrote:
When was the last one?
Aug. 14, 1936. Rainey Bethea. Convicted of the murder of 70-year-old
widow in Owensboro, Ky.
Still, I suppose if you're going to have the death penalty there a
very strong case for making sure it's as public as possible.
You are more likely to kill your spouse after one drink on a Friday night
than to be assaulted in the worst neighborhood at the worst time you can
imagine.
For several years Oakland California had a murder each Christmas involving
an old man and an old woman who had been married for many years. They would
get into an argument over the Christmas tree and one would kill the other.
These are the most common types of murder and watching an education on TV
does not stop them.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 06:42:37 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:nXA3e.11752$zl.1112@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
Therion Ware wrote:
When was the last one?
Aug. 14, 1936. Rainey Bethea. Convicted of the murder of 70-year-old
widow in Owensboro, Ky.
Still, I suppose if you're going to have the death penalty there a
very strong case for making sure it's as public as possible.
You are more likely to kill your spouse after one drink on a Friday
night than to be assaulted in the worst neighborhood at the worst time
you can imagine.
For several years Oakland California had a murder each Christmas
involving an old man and an old woman who had been married for many
years. They would get into an argument over the Christmas tree and one
would kill the other.
These are the most common types of murder and watching an education
on TV does not stop them.
Those are not generally the sort that get the death penalty either.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 11:05:04 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in news:1112420641.385324.149800
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
When was the last one?
LAST US PUBLIC EXECUTION
The last public execution in America was the hanging of a 22-year-old black
man named Rainey Bethea at Owensboro, KY, in 1936. Bethea had been
convicted of the slaying of a 70-year-old white woman. By five o'clock the
morning of the execution, 20,000 people were in the field, including over
200 sheriffs and deputies from various parts of the U.S. For complete
details, see: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/6275.
--
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 11:55:33 AM |
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wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
Now they just have public, 'Starve to death', routines.
Ho hum.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 04:00:30 PM |
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wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren
were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I
bet
the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
It's a rare country indeed that never had public executions.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 05:51:48 PM |
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wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren
were taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I
bet the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
It's a rare country indeed that never had public executions.
And it's a rare industrialized country today that continues to kill it's
people for murder.
If the US says they are bad guys, chances are they still execute.
.
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 11:01:41 PM |
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wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing
rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
Bob Dog
-----
Divine retribution is an idol threat.
Google lynching and auto-de-fe.
--
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 06:54:28 AM |
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wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren were
taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I bet
the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
I've heaard people say they'd like to push the button.
It is a logical extension of the stupid idea that the penalty is effective.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 01:34:34 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Ekr3e.11653$zl.5870@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren
were taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I
bet the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
I've heaard people say they'd like to push the button.
It is a logical extension of the stupid idea that the penalty is
effective.
Oh, but it is effective. Every murderer who is executed will never
commit another murder.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 01:48:47 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:34:34 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Ekr3e.11653$zl.5870@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren
were taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I
bet the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
I've heaard people say they'd like to push the button.
It is a logical extension of the stupid idea that the penalty is
effective.
Oh, but it is effective. Every murderer who is executed will never
commit another murder.
True. But I think the problem is that the innocent who end up getting
executed won't have the opportunity in the first place, which I
suppose might constitute a really enthusiastic form of crime
prevention.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 02:16:41 PM |
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Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
news:gf8t415ptvniu00ktg97tgs27c560hnis9@4ax.com:
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:34:34 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Ekr3e.11653$zl.5870@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-
CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren
were taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I
bet the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
I've heaard people say they'd like to push the button.
It is a logical extension of the stupid idea that the penalty is
effective.
Oh, but it is effective. Every murderer who is executed will never
commit another murder.
True. But I think the problem is that the innocent who end up getting
executed won't have the opportunity in the first place, which I
suppose might constitute a really enthusiastic form of crime
prevention.
That calls for more attention to due process, not a declaration that the
death penalty is ineffective.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 02:28:40 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 14:16:41 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
news:gf8t415ptvniu00ktg97tgs27c560hnis9@4ax.com:
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:34:34 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Ekr3e.11653$zl.5870@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?open&of=ENG-
CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren
were taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh. I
bet the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
I've heaard people say they'd like to push the button.
It is a logical extension of the stupid idea that the penalty is
effective.
Oh, but it is effective. Every murderer who is executed will never
commit another murder.
True. But I think the problem is that the innocent who end up getting
executed won't have the opportunity in the first place, which I
suppose might constitute a really enthusiastic form of crime
prevention.
That calls for more attention to due process, not a declaration that the
death penalty is ineffective.
What do you think is an acceptable mistake rate where the death
penalty is concerned?
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
02 Apr 2005 04:54:56 PM |
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Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
news:fnat41psrqnjvi186ja6e7rlnulfdask4f@4ax.com:
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 14:16:41 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
news:gf8t415ptvniu00ktg97tgs27c560hnis9@4ax.com:
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:34:34 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Ekr3e.11653$zl.5870@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?
open&of=ENG-
CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren
were taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh.
I bet the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
I've heaard people say they'd like to push the button.
It is a logical extension of the stupid idea that the penalty is
effective.
Oh, but it is effective. Every murderer who is executed will never
commit another murder.
True. But I think the problem is that the innocent who end up
getting executed won't have the opportunity in the first place,
which I suppose might constitute a really enthusiastic form of crime
prevention.
That calls for more attention to due process, not a declaration that
the death penalty is ineffective.
What do you think is an acceptable mistake rate where the death
penalty is concerned?
Zero. But I would not cease all executions or grant all condemned
murderers clemency for fear of making a mistake, any more than I would
release all prisoners from jail for fear of a wrongful conviction.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
03 Apr 2005 05:44:16 AM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
news:fnat41psrqnjvi186ja6e7rlnulfdask4f@4ax.com:
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 14:16:41 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
news:gf8t415ptvniu00ktg97tgs27c560hnis9@4ax.com:
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:34:34 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Ekr3e.11653$zl.5870@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?
open&of=ENG-
CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred schoolchildren
were taken to watch six men being sentenced to death at a public
sentencing rally, according to a Chinese internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh.
I bet the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
I've heaard people say they'd like to push the button.
It is a logical extension of the stupid idea that the penalty is
effective.
Oh, but it is effective. Every murderer who is executed will never
commit another murder.
True. But I think the problem is that the innocent who end up
getting executed won't have the opportunity in the first place,
which I suppose might constitute a really enthusiastic form of crime
prevention.
That calls for more attention to due process, not a declaration that
the death penalty is ineffective.
What do you think is an acceptable mistake rate where the death
penalty is concerned?
Zero. But I would not cease all executions or grant all condemned
murderers clemency for fear of making a mistake, any more than I would
release all prisoners from jail for fear of a wrongful conviction.
Bunch of strawmen. Who's asking for clemency or the release of all
prisoners?
You can't revive an innocent person that was executed, but you can
release them when they are proven innocent.
The death penalty is beneath a civilized country.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
05 Apr 2005 07:20:46 PM |
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In article <RoL3e.82932$tO5.2039079@wagner.videotron.net>,
Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote:
<snip>
Bunch of strawmen. Who's asking for clemency or the release of all
prisoners?
You can't revive an innocent person that was executed, but you can
release them when they are proven innocent.
The death penalty is beneath a civilized country.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
Yes, but America is not a civilized country.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
03 Apr 2005 01:15:26 PM |
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Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in
news:RoL3e.82932$tO5.2039079@wagner.videotron.net:
Fred Stone wrote:
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
news:fnat41psrqnjvi186ja6e7rlnulfdask4f@4ax.com:
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 14:16:41 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
news:gf8t415ptvniu00ktg97tgs27c560hnis9@4ax.com:
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:34:34 GMT in alt.atheism, Fred Stone (Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Ekr3e.11653$zl.5870@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote:
The Arch Atheist wrote:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170492004?
open&of=ENG-
CHN
"In a bizarre holiday celebration several hundred
schoolchildren were taken to watch six men being sentenced to
death at a public sentencing rally, according to a Chinese
internet report."
I wonder if their parents had to sign a permission slip... heh.
I bet the US isn't far behind.
Whaddaya mean, "far behind"? The US once had public hangings.
I've heaard people say they'd like to push the button.
It is a logical extension of the stupid idea that the penalty is
effective.
Oh, but it is effective. Every murderer who is executed will never
commit another murder.
True. But I think the problem is that the innocent who end up
getting executed won't have the opportunity in the first place,
which I suppose might constitute a really enthusiastic form of
crime prevention.
That calls for more attention to due process, not a declaration that
the death penalty is ineffective.
What do you think is an acceptable mistake rate where the death
penalty is concerned?
Zero. But I would not cease all executions or grant all condemned
murderers clemency for fear of making a mistake, any more than I
would release all prisoners from jail for fear of a wrongful
conviction.
Bunch of strawmen. Who's asking for clemency or the release of all
prisoners?
No straw, just a very telling analogy.
You can't revive an innocent person that was executed, but you can
release them when they are proven innocent.
You can't revive the victims of a serial killer either.
The death penalty is beneath a civilized country.
Explain to me in detail why this guy should live, assuming that he's
convicted. Be specific. Explain how the details of the crime that he
comitted contribute to, and support, your arguments.
http://www.newcriminologist.co.uk/news.asp?id=1014257241
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
03 Apr 2005 06:17:14 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
Explain to me in detail why this guy should live, assuming that he's
convicted. Be specific. Explain how the details of the crime that he
comitted contribute to, and support, your arguments.
Fred again admits he wants to watch.
Note that guilt or innocence does not enter into the picture, just a
conviction.
The death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment by definition.
Unusual because it is rarely imposed, especially on white men and cruel by
it's very nature. If killing is not cruel, why prosecute and say it is?
It serves no purpose other than satisfying biblical injunctions.
It has never been shown to be a deterrent.
It is far, far more expensive than keeping the man alive in prison, even if
you use the calculations given by it's proponents, dividing the total cost
of prisons by the number of inmates x/(n+1) < x/n.
Adding a few more people to the general prison population does not cost any
more than then having an extra person show up at a large party. Less food is
thrown out is about the only consequence.
The man is clearly insane by most standards. I am not talking about legal
insanity which is a matter of law but the standards of our society.
But Fred wants to watch.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
03 Apr 2005 06:51:28 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:KqW3e.14907$zl.5646@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
Explain to me in detail why this guy should live, assuming that he's
convicted. Be specific. Explain how the details of the crime that he
comitted contribute to, and support, your arguments.
Fred again admits he wants to watch.
Note that guilt or innocence does not enter into the picture, just a
conviction.
I see you're not able to explain in terms of the details of the case.
The death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment by definition.
Unusual because it is rarely imposed, especially on white men and
cruel by it's very nature. If killing is not cruel, why prosecute and
say it is? It serves no purpose other than satisfying biblical
injunctions. It has never been shown to be a deterrent.
It is far, far more expensive than keeping the man alive in prison,
even if you use the calculations given by it's proponents, dividing
the total cost of prisons by the number of inmates x/(n+1) < x/n.
Adding a few more people to the general prison population does not
cost any more than then having an extra person show up at a large
party. Less food is thrown out is about the only consequence.
The man is clearly insane by most standards. I am not talking about
legal insanity which is a matter of law but the standards of our
society.
But Fred wants to watch.
And so since you can't make your case in the face of the facts about a
heinous crime, you babble on about generalities.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
03 Apr 2005 07:37:48 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:KqW3e.14907$zl.5646@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
Explain to me in detail why this guy should live, assuming that he's
convicted. Be specific. Explain how the details of the crime that he
comitted contribute to, and support, your arguments.
Fred again admits he wants to watch.
Note that guilt or innocence does not enter into the picture, just a
conviction.
I see you're not able to explain in terms of the details of the case.
I was commenting on your statement that you want them to die.
The death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment by definition.
Unusual because it is rarely imposed, especially on white men and
cruel by it's very nature. If killing is not cruel, why prosecute and
say it is? It serves no purpose other than satisfying biblical
injunctions. It has never been shown to be a deterrent.
It is far, far more expensive than keeping the man alive in prison,
even if you use the calculations given by it's proponents, dividing
the total cost of prisons by the number of inmates x/(n+1) < x/n.
Adding a few more people to the general prison population does not
cost any more than then having an extra person show up at a large
party. Less food is thrown out is about the only consequence.
The man is clearly insane by most standards. I am not talking about
legal insanity which is a matter of law but the standards of our
society.
But Fred wants to watch.
And so since you can't make your case in the face of the facts about a
heinous crime, you babble on about generalities.
That's what the law is about and why it is in place. In most countries it
has moved past your tribal idea about killing being justice. The exceptions
are the countries you condemn in other places.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
03 Apr 2005 08:21:03 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:gCX3e.14932$zl.5038@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:KqW3e.14907$zl.5646@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
Explain to me in detail why this guy should live, assuming that
he's convicted. Be specific. Explain how the details of the crime
that he comitted contribute to, and support, your arguments.
Fred again admits he wants to watch.
Note that guilt or innocence does not enter into the picture, just a
conviction.
I see you're not able to explain in terms of the details of the case.
I was commenting on your statement that you want them to die.
I see that you're *still* not able to explain in terms of the details of
the case.
The death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment by definition.
Unusual because it is rarely imposed, especially on white men and
cruel by it's very nature. If killing is not cruel, why prosecute
and say it is? It serves no purpose other than satisfying biblical
injunctions. It has never been shown to be a deterrent.
It is far, far more expensive than keeping the man alive in prison,
even if you use the calculations given by it's proponents, dividing
the total cost of prisons by the number of inmates x/(n+1) < x/n.
Adding a few more people to the general prison population does not
cost any more than then having an extra person show up at a large
party. Less food is thrown out is about the only consequence.
The man is clearly insane by most standards. I am not talking about
legal insanity which is a matter of law but the standards of our
society.
But Fred wants to watch.
And so since you can't make your case in the face of the facts about
a heinous crime, you babble on about generalities.
That's what the law is about and why it is in place. In most countries
it has moved past your tribal idea about killing being justice. The
exceptions are the countries you condemn in other places.
So? I'm not so simpleminded as to think that condemning them for other
violations means that we must condemn everything that they do.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
05 Apr 2005 08:22:33 PM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
It [the death penalty] has never been shown to be a deterrent.
Um, as much as I hate to admit being on Fred's side in a political
discussion, I gotta say that the death penalty kept me from murdering
someone, once. The jerk was a head case who bought the small tri-plex
behind my mother's property, and who interpreted the easement allowing
him to drive through my parents' property onto his parking lot as being
de facto *ownership* of that strip of land. Over a series of months he
terrorized my mother to the point where she was afraid for her life.
He made me so mad, so foaming-at-the-mouth angry, that if Arizona
didn't have the death penalty, I'd have grabbed my dad's old
thirty-aught-six and shot the motherf****r. Numerous times. Life
without possibility would have been worth it, just to see him get what
he deserved; but death, no.
Never believed the death penalty was a deterrent until that happened.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
05 Apr 2005 08:42:37 PM |
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skyeyes wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
It [the death penalty] has never been shown to be a deterrent.
Um, as much as I hate to admit being on Fred's side in a political
discussion, I gotta say that the death penalty kept me from murdering
someone, once. The jerk was a head case who bought the small tri-plex
behind my mother's property, and who interpreted the easement allowing
him to drive through my parents' property onto his parking lot as
being de facto *ownership* of that strip of land. Over a series of
months he terrorized my mother to the point where she was afraid for
her life. He made me so mad, so foaming-at-the-mouth angry, that if
Arizona didn't have the death penalty, I'd have grabbed my dad's old
thirty-aught-six and shot the motherf****r. Numerous times. Life
without possibility would have been worth it, just to see him get what
he deserved; but death, no.
Never believed the death penalty was a deterrent until that happened.
There will always be exceptions but can you honestly say that you *would*
have killed him had it just been life. If so, the solution was simple and
the probability of jail would have been minimum had you just reported the
terrorism to the authorities frequently and that you were also afraid for
your life. Then wait for him to come over.
You could have also done the opposite of what a lot of potential suicides
do, kidnap and transport to a non death penalty state, then kill him.
There are a significant number of people that do this and the doc at UC
Davis who noticed this believes they want the state to kill them.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: China: School trips to watch death sentences |
05 Apr 2005 08:56:12 PM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
There will always be exceptions but can you honestly say that you
*would* have killed him had it just been life.
Yup, I can.
If so, the solution was simple and the probability of jail would have
been minimum had you just reported the terrorism to the authorities
frequently >and that you were also afraid for your life.
We had the cops out there 20 times - count 'em, 20. There was nothing
they could do, except talk to him. The dude wasn't giving up, but he
stayed *just* inside the margin of the law. The more often the cops
came, the more despicable his behavior was. We engaged a lawyer, until
the money ran out. Nothing worked.
And I didn't fear for my life, my 81-year-old mother feared for *hers*.
Then wait for him to come over. You could have also done the
opposite of what a lot of potential suicides do, kidnap and
transport to a non death penalty state, then kill him.
Well, I didn't think of that. And I'm not sure how I would have pulled
it off, being a middle-aged woman with Fibromyalgia.
Not to mention the fact that I don't think very clearly when I am that
*****. All those berzerker genes I inherited from my nordic
ancestors, I believe. ;->
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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