Religions > Atheism > Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
01 Apr 2007 05:31:41 PM |
| Object: |
Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
http://www.catholic.org/diocese/diocese_story.php?id=23101
Choose God, not MTV, abstinence speaker tells teens
By Cesar J. Baldelomar
2/20/2007
The Florida Catholic (www.thefloridacatholic.org)
MIAMI LAKES, Fla. (The Florida Catholic) - Standing before a church
full of students and their parents, Father James P. Murphy, pastor of
Our Lady of the Lakes Parish, told all present that "premarital sex is
a matter of life and death."
Following up on those words, he introduced Pam Stenzel, whom he called
"a messenger from God who is spreading the Christian message about
sexuality."
Stenzel, a world-renowned abstinence speaker known for her wit and
humor when tackling today's toughest sex-related issues, spoke at the
parish. Her talk was co-sponsored by the archdiocese's Respect Life
Office. She also spoke at St. Agnes Academy in Key Biscayne, Fla.
Stenzel directed her message first to adults, telling them that
although children often disagree with parental rules, parents must
nevertheless continue to teach their children morals and values.
She cited her two main rules for dating: no dating until the teen
turns 16, and no single dating, as opposed to staying in groups, until
the teen has graduated from high school.
"I wasn't called to be my daughter's friend. I was called to be her
parent," Stenzel said.
She then directed her message to the youths, saying that sexual
intercourse is good and holy when done within the context of marriage.
Any sex outside of marriage, however, carries consequences aside from
premarital pregnancy, she said.
"Pregnancy should not be every sexually active girl's main worry,"
said Stenzel. "There are far worse consequences, such as STDs
(sexually transmitted diseases)."
In fact, she said, girls are four times more likely to contract a
sexually transmitted disease than to get pregnant.
"Twenty-six of the 30 STDs physically affect girls more than they do
boys," Stenzel said.
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel, founder and owner of Enlighten Communications,
an organization that strives to promote sexual abstinence through
videos, books and pamphlets. "Making things worse is the fact that
most STD tests, especially HPV tests, are inaccurate and therefore
often give a false sense of hope."
The condom, which according to Stenzel is popular among teens, also
provides a false sense of security.
"Condoms, used properly, provide no protection at all against herpes
and HPV," said Stenzel, whose promotion of abstinence is a direct
result of years spent counseling young women in crisis pregnancies.
She reminded the audience that "the term 'sex' includes any contact
with genitals, meaning that oral sex, which is often downplayed among
teens, is a sexual activity. The belief that oral sex is harmless
because it involves no vaginal penetration is false because scientists
have confirmed that all 30 STDs can be transmitted via oral sex."
"The only safe sex is sex within marriage with a safe partner,"
Stenzel stressed.
Yet the prospect of abstaining from sex until marriage is difficult
for teens, especially when popular culture and the media portray
premarital sex as an expression of freedom and as a utilitarian drive
aimed at satisfying bodily desires.
"Sex involves not just body parts, but also one's heart and soul,"
Stenzel said. "This entails finding the right person who is willing to
make a lifelong promise of love."
She ended her presentation with a reminder for the youths: "Although
there are a plethora of sexually charged messages in the media, it is
your choice to follow either MTV or God. I hope you follow God."
"This is the most incredible speech I have ever heard," said Dayane
Masters, who is a mother of two boys. "Pam, I am sure, has inspired
several teens here today to choose a life of abstinence."
Joanne Martinez, a student at Hialeah High School, said, "Pam's
message is one of truth and love, and I hope that all teens and adults
present here today have learned much from her words of wisdom."
For more information about Pam Stenzel, or to book her for an event,
visit www.pamstenzel.com. To learn more about sexually transmitted
diseases, visit the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention at
www.cdc.gov/std/default.htm.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
08 Apr 2007 12:02:46 AM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> bloodied us up
with this:
On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:17:34 -0800, DanielSan
<daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote:
God revealed, man put pencil to paper.
So, "man" wrote down what the voices in their head told them?
Then he walked out of his tomb.
Tell me, duke, do you ALSO hear voices in your head? Do they tell you
to do things? Bad things?
How come you disappeared immediately after I put you in the big 4?
How come you dodged the question?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack. Plonked by Fester.
Member Duke Spanking Club.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
07 Apr 2007 05:53:02 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:17:34 -0800, DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote:
God revealed, man put pencil to paper.
So, "man" wrote down what the voices in their head told them?
Then he walked out of his tomb.
Who?
Tell me, duke, do you ALSO hear voices in your head? Do they tell you
to do things? Bad things?
How come you disappeared immediately after I put you in the big 4?
I had to concentrate on work. There was an alteration in the way they
did things and that made me work 12-18 hour days for a long time.
But don't worry, duke. There's only one you. :-)
--
******************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*----------------------------------------------------*
* The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of *
* reason: The Morning Daylight appears plainer *
* when you put out your Candle." --Benjamin Franklin *
* Poor Richard's Almanack (1758) *
******************************************************
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
05 Apr 2007 08:13:07 PM |
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in article 8v58139cs6alg9m9k1a8o45859osrnr89m@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 4/4/07 5:29 PM:
On 04 Apr 2007 02:21:39 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
I distinctly said "man poking his pecker were it doesn't belong".
So where *does* it belong?
You don't know??????????? Haahaahaahaahaahaa.
And why do you think your church's opinion
matters in the issue?
It's not my Church that says it's despicable, it's God that says that.
Sex without religion is natural
The sexual act was given to us as a most pleasurable act of love and
procreation.
Why? Shouldn't everything on Earth that's acceptably "Catholic" be a
miserable travail?
Paul
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
06 Apr 2007 07:07:00 AM |
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On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 21:13:07 -0400, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
I distinctly said "man poking his pecker were it doesn't belong".
So where *does* it belong?
You don't know??????????? Haahaahaahaahaahaa.
Sex without religion is natural
The sexual act was given to us as a most pleasurable act of love and
procreation.
Why?
That's the way it is, depends snifferboy.
Shouldn't everything on Earth that's acceptably "Catholic" be a
miserable travail?
Why?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
06 Apr 2007 10:51:26 PM |
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in article eqdc13tp277kam3ms0g0racs7inl4ok44v@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 4/6/07 8:07 AM:
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 21:13:07 -0400, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
I distinctly said "man poking his pecker were it doesn't belong".
So where *does* it belong?
You don't know??????????? Haahaahaahaahaahaa.
Sex without religion is natural
The sexual act was given to us as a most pleasurable act of love and
procreation.
Why?
That's the way it is,
Shouldn't everything on Earth that's acceptably "Catholic" be a
miserable travail?
Why?
The real question is How...as in, How does a never married Catholic
KNOW the sexual act is pleasurable?
Paul
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
07 Apr 2007 08:28:56 AM |
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On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:51:26 -0400, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
Shouldn't everything on Earth that's acceptably "Catholic" be a
miserable travail?
Why?
The real question is How...as in, How does a never married Catholic
KNOW the sexual act is pleasurable?
Why would a depends snifferboy ask such a question? Are you trying to expand
the limits of your exposure?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
07 Apr 2007 11:46:15 AM |
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in article ov6f131kp1rip5vhm65tb8h0kkmvojk24f@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 4/7/07 9:28 AM:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:51:26 -0400, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
Shouldn't everything on Earth that's acceptably "Catholic" be a
miserable travail?
Why?
The real question is How...as in, How does a never married Catholic
KNOW the sexual act is pleasurable?
Why would you ask such a question? Are you trying to expand
the limits of your exposure?
Catholics are only exposed to a single annual act of procreation...
Paul
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
07 Apr 2007 02:48:01 PM |
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On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 12:46:15 -0400, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <C23D4316.1334B%p.duca@comcast.net>
wrote:
in article ov6f131kp1rip5vhm65tb8h0kkmvojk24f@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 4/7/07 9:28 AM:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:51:26 -0400, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
Shouldn't everything on Earth that's acceptably "Catholic" be a
miserable travail?
Why?
The real question is How...as in, How does a never married Catholic
KNOW the sexual act is pleasurable?
Why would you ask such a question? Are you trying to expand
the limits of your exposure?
Catholics are only exposed to a single annual act of procreation...
No, they do two things well. Screw and beg forgiveness.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
07 Apr 2007 01:52:52 PM |
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On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 12:46:15 -0400, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
Shouldn't everything on Earth that's acceptably "Catholic" be a
miserable travail?
Why?
The real question is How...as in, How does a never married Catholic
KNOW the sexual act is pleasurable?
Why would you ask such a question? Are you trying to expand
the limits of your exposure?
Catholics are only exposed to a single annual act of procreation...
You need to quit sniffing the depends, snifferboy.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
07 Apr 2007 09:45:26 PM |
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in article m2qf13532p6vu49ievgiku0cbrljqvmmtc@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 4/7/07 2:52 PM:
On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 12:46:15 -0400, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
Shouldn't everything on Earth that's acceptably "Catholic" be a
miserable travail?
Why?
The real question is How...as in, How does a never married Catholic
KNOW the sexual act is pleasurable?
Why would you ask such a question? Are you trying to expand
the limits of your exposure?
Catholics are only exposed to a single annual act of procreation...
You need to quit sex, just like me.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
07 Apr 2007 12:45:28 AM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> bloodied us
up with this:
The real question is How...as in, How does a never married
Catholic
KNOW the sexual act is pleasurable?
Nudge, nudge.
Wink, wink.
Know what I mean?
Know what I mean?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack. Plonked by Fester.
Member Duke Spanking Club.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
03 Apr 2007 08:51:30 AM |
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On 3 Apr 2007 06:43:24 -0700, "Pinch" <pinch@cheerful.com> wrote:
On Apr 3, 7:02 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On 03 Apr 2007 00:08:48 GMT, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
And the same one who is sinuglarly responsible for the un-checked spread of
AIDS?
Sorry, man poking his pecker where it doesn't belong is the reason for the
spread of aids.
The same can be said for irresponsible heterosexuals whom are largest
HIV facilitators globally.
World wide it's a heterosexual disease. Turned endemic in sub-Saharan
Africa by the Vatican's active campaigning against condoms even for
non-Catholics. It just so happens that the vecdtor by whichit appeared
in the US was the gay community via Haiti.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
02 Apr 2007 09:45:48 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote:
Choose God, not MTV, abstinence speaker tells teens
Choose God, not the pope.
The Pope has no divinity.
Then stop worshipping the pope.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not the Pope |
03 Apr 2007 03:43:52 PM |
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On Apr 1, 9:00 pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net> wrote:
Choose God, not MTV, abstinence speaker tells teens
Choose God, not the pope.
Choose God, not Peewee Herman, either.
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| User: "Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
01 Apr 2007 05:53:09 PM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
03 Apr 2007 04:28:46 PM |
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On Apr 1, 3:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
Has yet to actually be shown to work, which is apparently why Merck
decided to bypass winning over consumers through freedom of choice in
the open market, instead making generous contributions to politician
campaign war chests so that laws could be passed to ensure Merck gets
a steady profit using government edict to force people to take it.
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
Never mind anyone who points out no one has a clue what the long-term
side effects are for taking this vaccine, never mind the company who
made it spent their money to buy politicians rather than advertising,
never mind that even Merck admits it only protects against some
strains of HPV, never mind that Merck has put profits over consumer
health before with the Vioxx scandal...just don't pay attention to any
of that.
Let's just sidestep these serious objections and questions by painting
anyone who brings up these up as religious fanatics and prudes.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
03 Apr 2007 09:47:47 PM |
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David <davecheryll@earthlink.net> wrote:
Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
Has yet to actually be shown to work,
A complete lie. The HPV vaccine has been shown to be safe and highly
effective.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
04 Apr 2007 12:45:51 AM |
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On Apr 3, 7:47 pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
David <davecher...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
Has yet to actually be shown to work,
A complete lie.
Wrong again Ray. As happened last time, you failed to do any research
before challenging me, and you wind up with egg on your face for the
second time.
The HPV vaccine has been shown to be safe and highly
effective.
Notice Ray left out the words: "in a petri dish."
In case you are wondering why Ray did not claim the HPV vaccine has
been shown to be safe and highly effective in young girls, that is
because no study has yet to determine if it is effective in actually
preventing the disease in young girls. See the link in my previoius
post for why.
As for safe, well, everyone can read for themselves what Ray considers
"safe".
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=63586
"There are twice as many children collapsing and four times as many
children experiencing tingling, numbness and loss of sensation after
getting a GARDASIL vaccination compared to those getting a Tdap
(tetanus-diphtheria-acellular pertussis) vaccination. There have been
reports of facial paralysis and Guillain-Barre Syndrome. And doctors
who give GARDASIL in combination with other vaccines are basically
conducting an experiment on their young patients because Merck has not
published any safety data for simultaneous vaccination with any
vaccine except hepatitis B vaccine."
.....
"How many girls are really having short-term health problems
associated with getting this vaccine that could turn into long-term
neurological or immune system disorders? And how many will go on to
develop fertility problems, cancer or damage to their genes, all of
which Merck admits in its product insert that it has not studied at
all?
--
Ray Fischer
So remember everyone, according to Ray Fischer, your young daughter
collapsing, or suffering Guillain-Barre Syndrome is "safe". And you
will just have to take Ray's word that the vaccine is "safe" with
respect to these girls suffering gene damage or fertility health
problems, because Merck itself sure as hell won't promise you anything
in that regard.
Be very careful before you challenge me for a third time Ray.
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/gbs.htm
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| User: "BTR1701" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
03 Apr 2007 06:59:02 PM |
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In article <1175635726.762457.23860@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 1, 3:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
Has yet to actually be shown to work, which is apparently why Merck
decided to bypass winning over consumers through freedom of choice in
the open market, instead making generous contributions to politician
campaign war chests so that laws could be passed to ensure Merck gets
a steady profit using government edict to force people to take it.
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
Never mind anyone who points out no one has a clue what the long-term
side effects are for taking this vaccine, never mind the company who
made it spent their money to buy politicians rather than advertising,
never mind that even Merck admits it only protects against some
strains of HPV, never mind that Merck has put profits over consumer
health before with the Vioxx scandal...just don't pay attention to any
of that.
Let's just sidestep these serious objections and questions by painting
anyone who brings up these up as religious fanatics and prudes.
Well, when the people who object to it give as their reasons the fear
that girls will have sex before marriage and condemn themselves to hell,
it's kinda hard to impute any other motive to their objections.
Not one pastor or reverend that I've heard criticize this vaccine has
brought up any of the things you mentioned. It's all about how vaccines
like this thwart god's will by removing the consequences of wanton
sexual behavior.
I'm sure if they found a cure for AIDS tomorrow, there would be a
significant percentage of the religious loonies out there who would
protest against it because they *like* the idea of people paying the
"wages of their sin and promiscuity" with their lives.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
03 Apr 2007 07:52:01 PM |
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On Apr 3, 4:59 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175635726.762457.23...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecher...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 1, 3:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
Has yet to actually be shown to work, which is apparently why Merck
decided to bypass winning over consumers through freedom of choice in
the open market, instead making generous contributions to politician
campaign war chests so that laws could be passed to ensure Merck gets
a steady profit using government edict to force people to take it.
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
Never mind anyone who points out no one has a clue what the long-term
side effects are for taking this vaccine, never mind the company who
made it spent their money to buy politicians rather than advertising,
never mind that even Merck admits it only protects against some
strains of HPV, never mind that Merck has put profits over consumer
health before with the Vioxx scandal...just don't pay attention to any
of that.
Let's just sidestep these serious objections and questions by painting
anyone who brings up these up as religious fanatics and prudes.
Well, when the people who object to it give as their reasons the fear
that girls will have sex before marriage and condemn themselves to hell,
it's kinda hard to impute any other motive to their objections.
Yes, when the media implies everyone or almost everyone who objects is
doing so for religious reasons, it can be hard to realize there are
other motives.
Not one pastor or reverend that I've heard criticize this vaccine has
brought up any of the things you mentioned.
How many pastors or reverends have you heard? How large is your data
sample?
Have you gone beyond pastors and reverends to see who else is
objecting to this vaccine?
http://www.healthychild.com/gardasil-objections.htm
One obgyn's comments in the link above:
--------------------
Therefore, vaccinating these children against HPV with a vaccine that
is of unknown duration of efficacy will only postpone their exposure
to an age which they are less likely clear the infection on their own
and be subject to more severe disease. This would require an unknown
number of boosters and is a setup for complacency in the older
population that is a recipe for disaster. Furthermore, the likelihood
for regression to a normal pap from CIN II is 40%. This beats
Gardasil's "best" reduction of CIN II-III of only 12%. In this case,
"first do no harm" rules.
Furthermore the vaccine only "protects" against 4 high risk HPV
subtypes. We are currently screening for 13 "high risk" HPV subtypes.
This may lead to an increase in infection with other and possibly more
aggressive subtypes.
The study of the vaccine in children and adolescents is limited to
only measuring the development of antibodies to the HPV subtypes in
the vaccine. There is absolutely no evidence that the vaccine prevents
anything when administered at this young age. Merck expects you to
extrapolate their adult data to the immune response in children. If
they were really interested in vaccine efficacy in children, should it
not be studied properly in children?
Currently, precancerous lesions are readily identifiable and treatable
in the developed world. The only utility of this vaccine may be in
third world countries in which regular screening is not available and
cervical cancer is still a major cause of morbidity and mortality. All
of the data reported and advertised by Merck is based on world wide
morbidity and mortality related to cervical cancer. Nowhere will you
find specific data related to developed nations.
I have personally witnessed the devastation caused by severe vaccine
reaction, including patients, their children, nurses and my own
family. To proceed with mass vaccination against this embellished
"threat" is irresponsible.
------------------
Now, having actually seen other objections, you can evaluate whether
these objections merit consideration or just whether they are just
bunk.
But why haven't you heard these objections before now? If you haven't
heard them, how many have not? Shouldn't people be able to make an
informed decision having heard all possible objections?
It's all about how vaccines
like this thwart god's will by removing the consequences of wanton
sexual behavior.
As I have shown, it isn't all about that. But by pretending it is all
about that, Merck gets to avoid answering some difficult questions,
and politicians don't have to answer why they are pushing a vaccine in
exchange for campaign contributions. And the media get a good guys bad
guys story to sell.
I'm sure if they found a cure for AIDS tomorrow, there would be a
significant percentage of the religious loonies out there who would
protest against it because they *like* the idea of people paying the
"wages of their sin and promiscuity" with their lives.
I would say your claim is about as fair as one stating that if it
turned out HIV infection wasn't a death sentence as implied, a
significant percentage of the AIDS lobby would try to keep that quiet
in order to keep the money flowing in at a brisk pace for more
research grants.
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
03 Apr 2007 09:47:41 PM |
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In article <1175647921.808524.161660@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 3, 4:59 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175635726.762457.23...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecher...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 1, 3:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
Has yet to actually be shown to work, which is apparently why Merck
decided to bypass winning over consumers through freedom of choice in
the open market, instead making generous contributions to politician
campaign war chests so that laws could be passed to ensure Merck gets
a steady profit using government edict to force people to take it.
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
Never mind anyone who points out no one has a clue what the long-term
side effects are for taking this vaccine, never mind the company who
made it spent their money to buy politicians rather than advertising,
never mind that even Merck admits it only protects against some
strains of HPV, never mind that Merck has put profits over consumer
health before with the Vioxx scandal...just don't pay attention to any
of that.
Let's just sidestep these serious objections and questions by painting
anyone who brings up these up as religious fanatics and prudes.
Well, when the people who object to it give as their reasons the fear
that girls will have sex before marriage and condemn themselves to hell,
it's kinda hard to impute any other motive to their objections.
Yes, when the media implies everyone or almost everyone who objects is
doing so for religious reasons, it can be hard to realize there are
other motives.
Not one pastor or reverend that I've heard criticize this vaccine has
brought up any of the things you mentioned.
How many pastors or reverends have you heard? How large is your data
sample?
Half a dozen, give or take.
Have you gone beyond pastors and reverends to see who else is
objecting to this vaccine?
Doesn't really matter because in this thread we're only talking about
those who object for religious reasons.
It's all about how vaccines
like this thwart god's will by removing the consequences of wanton
sexual behavior.
As I have shown, it isn't all about that.
It is for the religious objectors, which is what we were discussing.
Religious attitudes toward sex and all that.
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
04 Apr 2007 05:30:11 PM |
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|
In article <btr1702-625DBD.22474103042007@news.giganews.com>,
BTR1701 <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175647921.808524.161660@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 3, 4:59 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175635726.762457.23...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecher...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 1, 3:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital
contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after
breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
Has yet to actually be shown to work, which is apparently why Merck
decided to bypass winning over consumers through freedom of choice in
the open market, instead making generous contributions to politician
campaign war chests so that laws could be passed to ensure Merck gets
a steady profit using government edict to force people to take it.
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish
girls
who have sex ... errr right
Never mind anyone who points out no one has a clue what the long-term
side effects are for taking this vaccine, never mind the company who
made it spent their money to buy politicians rather than advertising,
never mind that even Merck admits it only protects against some
strains of HPV, never mind that Merck has put profits over consumer
health before with the Vioxx scandal...just don't pay attention to any
of that.
Let's just sidestep these serious objections and questions by painting
anyone who brings up these up as religious fanatics and prudes.
Well, when the people who object to it give as their reasons the fear
that girls will have sex before marriage and condemn themselves to hell,
it's kinda hard to impute any other motive to their objections.
Yes, when the media implies everyone or almost everyone who objects is
doing so for religious reasons, it can be hard to realize there are
other motives.
Not one pastor or reverend that I've heard criticize this vaccine has
brought up any of the things you mentioned.
How many pastors or reverends have you heard? How large is your data
sample?
Half a dozen, give or take.
Have you gone beyond pastors and reverends to see who else is
objecting to this vaccine?
Doesn't really matter because in this thread we're only talking about
those who object for religious reasons.
The unspoken premise was that those were the only ones objecting, I
showed that is not the case.
That wasn't the premise at all, unspoken or otherwise. This entire
thread is about the silly (and sometimes dangerous) attitudes religious
people have toward sex and an example of that was how some RELIGIOUS
people object to this vaccine on moral grounds. All your scientific
objections, while they may be valid, have nothing to do with the topic
at hand nor is there some "unspoken premise" to which they would be
relevant.
It is for the religious objectors, which is what we were discussing.
Religious attitudes toward sex and all that.
So are "we" just going to conveniently ignore all the other objectors,
or are "we" going to lump them in with those who object for
"religious" reasons?
"We" aren't going to address them at all because they have nothing to do
with topic of this discussion.
.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
04 Apr 2007 12:51:13 AM |
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On Apr 3, 7:47 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175647921.808524.161...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecher...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 3, 4:59 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175635726.762457.23...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecher...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 1, 3:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
Has yet to actually be shown to work, which is apparently why Merck
decided to bypass winning over consumers through freedom of choice in
the open market, instead making generous contributions to politician
campaign war chests so that laws could be passed to ensure Merck gets
a steady profit using government edict to force people to take it.
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
Never mind anyone who points out no one has a clue what the long-term
side effects are for taking this vaccine, never mind the company who
made it spent their money to buy politicians rather than advertising,
never mind that even Merck admits it only protects against some
strains of HPV, never mind that Merck has put profits over consumer
health before with the Vioxx scandal...just don't pay attention to any
of that.
Let's just sidestep these serious objections and questions by painting
anyone who brings up these up as religious fanatics and prudes.
Well, when the people who object to it give as their reasons the fear
that girls will have sex before marriage and condemn themselves to hell,
it's kinda hard to impute any other motive to their objections.
Yes, when the media implies everyone or almost everyone who objects is
doing so for religious reasons, it can be hard to realize there are
other motives.
Not one pastor or reverend that I've heard criticize this vaccine has
brought up any of the things you mentioned.
How many pastors or reverends have you heard? How large is your data
sample?
Half a dozen, give or take.
You might want to take a larger sample.
Have you gone beyond pastors and reverends to see who else is
objecting to this vaccine?
Doesn't really matter because in this thread we're only talking about
those who object for religious reasons.
The unspoken premise was that those were the only ones objecting, I
showed that is not the case.
It's all about how vaccines
like this thwart god's will by removing the consequences of wanton
sexual behavior.
As I have shown, it isn't all about that.
It is for the religious objectors, which is what we were discussing.
Religious attitudes toward sex and all that.
So are "we" just going to conveniently ignore all the other objectors,
or are "we" going to lump them in with those who object for
"religious" reasons?
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
|
| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
04 Apr 2007 05:31:15 PM |
|
|
In article <1175665873.712436.103510@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 3, 7:47 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175647921.808524.161...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecher...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 3, 4:59 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175635726.762457.23...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"David" <davecher...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Apr 1, 3:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital
contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after
breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the
cancer
Has yet to actually be shown to work, which is apparently why Merck
decided to bypass winning over consumers through freedom of choice in
the open market, instead making generous contributions to politician
campaign war chests so that laws could be passed to ensure Merck gets
a steady profit using government edict to force people to take it.
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish
girls
who have sex ... errr right
Never mind anyone who points out no one has a clue what the long-term
side effects are for taking this vaccine, never mind the company who
made it spent their money to buy politicians rather than advertising,
never mind that even Merck admits it only protects against some
strains of HPV, never mind that Merck has put profits over consumer
health before with the Vioxx scandal...just don't pay attention to
any
of that.
Let's just sidestep these serious objections and questions by
painting
anyone who brings up these up as religious fanatics and prudes.
Well, when the people who object to it give as their reasons the fear
that girls will have sex before marriage and condemn themselves to
hell,
it's kinda hard to impute any other motive to their objections.
Yes, when the media implies everyone or almost everyone who objects is
doing so for religious reasons, it can be hard to realize there are
other motives.
Not one pastor or reverend that I've heard criticize this vaccine has
brought up any of the things you mentioned.
How many pastors or reverends have you heard? How large is your data
sample?
Half a dozen, give or take.
You might want to take a larger sample.
I don't need to if the only subject under discussion is the attitude of
religious people regarding this vaccine.
Have you gone beyond pastors and reverends to see who else is
objecting to this vaccine?
Doesn't really matter because in this thread we're only talking about
those who object for religious reasons.
The unspoken premise was that those were the only ones objecting, I
showed that is not the case.
That wasn't the premise at all, unspoken or otherwise. This entire
thread is about the silly (and sometimes dangerous) attitudes religious
people have toward sex and an example of that was how some RELIGIOUS
people object to this vaccine on moral grounds. All your scientific
objections, while they may be valid, have nothing to do with the topic
at hand nor is there some "unspoken premise" to which they would be
relevant.
It is for the religious objectors, which is what we were discussing.
Religious attitudes toward sex and all that.
So are "we" just going to conveniently ignore all the other objectors,
or are "we" going to lump them in with those who object for
"religious" reasons?
"We" aren't going to address them at all because they have nothing to do
with this discussion.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
02 Apr 2007 04:19:22 PM |
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|
On Apr 1, 6:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
I was not aware that a cheap vaccination stops imorality that
destroys the quality of life of those who engage in it. There are
worse things than cancer and HPV. Those two only infect a fraction of
the society, but imorality can infect continents and even the whole
world(sparing no one) and the long-term costs are way higher.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
02 Apr 2007 09:45:19 PM |
|
|
<> wrote:
On Apr 1, 6:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
I was not aware that a cheap vaccination stops imorality that
destroys the quality of life of those who engage in it.
Are you referring to your immorality?
There are
worse things than cancer and HPV.
What an appalling hatred for people.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
|
| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
02 Apr 2007 05:05:04 PM |
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|
In article <1175548762.512899.272830@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
"yarrido@aol.com" <yarrido@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 1, 6:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
I was not aware that a cheap vaccination stops imorality that
destroys the quality of life of those who engage in it. There are
worse things than cancer and HPV. Those two only infect a fraction of
the society, but imorality can infect continents and even the whole
world(sparing no one) and the long-term costs are way higher.
It's only immoral to you. Your personal ethics are not the objective
benchmark for all of humanity.
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
02 Apr 2007 06:08:36 PM |
|
|
On Apr 2, 6:05 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175548762.512899.272...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
"yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 1, 6:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
I was not aware that a cheap vaccination stops imorality that
destroys the quality of life of those who engage in it. There are
worse things than cancer and HPV. Those two only infect a fraction of
the society, but imorality can infect continents and even the whole
world(sparing no one) and the long-term costs are way higher.
It's only immoral to you.
Aparently it is not, as the catholic church would seem to agree with
me on this point and that comprises quite a large segment of the world
population. So, your statement is false on the face of it.
Your personal ethics are not the objective
benchmark for all of humanity.-
Simply because I have adopted a particluar set of ethics, does not
make them automatically wrong on the basis of that adoption. Since
that is the only flawed basis you provide for their rejection, I have
no option but to reject your argument as invalid.
Why should I reject someone's ethics simply because they are their
personal ethics? Provide me an answer for that and maybe then we can
see just how valid your argument really is.
However, if we examine the evidence in divorce courts and child
custody cases, we can see just how many lives are destroyed by the
evils of sexual imorality and that is an objective measuring stick,
not just my personal opinion. So, the evidence I offer is easily
obtainable and quantifiable, while your source of evidence for your
view is yet forthcoming. Maybe...
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
|
| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
02 Apr 2007 09:19:07 PM |
|
|
In article <1175555316.062579.297140@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
"yarrido@aol.com" <yarrido@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:05 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175548762.512899.272...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
"yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 1, 6:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
I was not aware that a cheap vaccination stops imorality that
destroys the quality of life of those who engage in it. There are
worse things than cancer and HPV. Those two only infect a fraction of
the society, but imorality can infect continents and even the whole
world(sparing no one) and the long-term costs are way higher.
It's only immoral to you.
Aparently it is not, as the catholic church would seem to agree with
me on this point and that comprises quite a large segment of the world
population.
The Catholic Church doesn't comprise me nor does it comprise the even
greater segment of the world population that isn't Catholic.
Point is, if all that dirty sex is immoral to you, don't do it. You
don't have any right to keep me or anyone else from doing it.
Your personal ethics are not the objective
benchmark for all of humanity.-
Simply because I have adopted a particluar set of ethics, does not
make them automatically wrong on the basis of that adoption.
Nor does it make them automatically right. In fact, they're only right
for *you*.
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Choose God, Not MTV: Premarital Sex Is A Matter Of Life And Death |
02 Apr 2007 09:46:30 PM |
|
|
On Apr 2, 10:19 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175555316.062579.297...@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
"yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:05 pm, BTR1701 <btr1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In article <1175548762.512899.272...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
"yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 1, 6:53 pm, Martin <usen...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One viral infection that harms women more than men is the human
papillomavirus, or HPV, which is transmitted through genital contact,
can cause warts and has been associated with cervical cancer.
"HPV is now the second-leading cause of cancer in women after breast
cancer," said Stenzel
Yet a simple, cheap vaccination that stops the disease and the cancer
has the christians up in arms. It's as though they want to punish girls
who have sex ... errr right
I was not aware that a cheap vaccination stops imorality that
destroys the quality of life of those who engage in it. There are
worse things than cancer and HPV. Those two only infect a fraction of
the society, but imorality can infect continents and even the whole
world(sparing no one) and the long-term costs are way higher.
It's only immoral to you.
Aparently it is not, as the catholic church would seem to agree with
me on this point and that comprises quite a large segment of the world
population.
The Catholic Church doesn't comprise me nor does it comprise the even
greater segment of the world population that isn't Catholic.
So what if you're not a Catholic? That has nothing to do with your
previous statment "It's only immoral to you." Your point in that
statement was that I was alone in my view and you were proven wrong.
Do you understand that?
As to your second allegation...so what? Big fat deal. Islam doesn't
approve of extra-merital sex either...nor does Judaism. So, your whole
point is grounded in nothing. Do you understand that?
Point is, if all that dirty sex is immoral to you, don't do it.
I don't...so what is your point again? Oh yeah....you don't have one.
You
don't have any right to keep me or anyone else from doing it.
I can hardly prevent you from shooting yourself in the head...but
that doesn't mean I won't try to persuade you that it is the wrong
thing to do and it is in your best interest that I do so. So,
again...what is your point here?
Your personal ethics are not the objective
benchmark for all of humanity.-
Simply because I have adopted a particluar set of ethics, does not
make them automatically wrong on the basis of that adoption.
Nor does it make them automatically right. In fact, they're only right
for *you*.
You're back to that again. There is a whole bunch of societies that
are based on the concept that such behavior is morally wrong. So, how
many times must I show you that you are mistaken about me being alone
in that view? Are you so committed to that view that you are incapable
of seeing that it is wrong?
- Show quoted text -
.
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