Religions > Atheism > Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
| Date: |
14 Apr 2005 05:52:01 PM |
| Object: |
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Forwarded message from
[ Subject: Christian evangelicals are plotting to remake
America in their own image www.rollingstone.com
[ From:
[ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005
-From Imagin8r
-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005
Courtesy -
This does not make the headlines in India's ELM, but
"Hindooo fundamentalists" do. Murli
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7235393?rnd=1113062695995&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.857
The Crusaders
Christian evangelicals are plotting to remake America in
their own image
By BOB MOSER
It's February, and 900 of America's staunchest Christian
fundamentalists have gathered in Fort Lauderdale to look
back on what they accomplished in last year's election --
and to plan what's next. As they assemble in the vast
sanctuary of Coral Ridge Presbyterian, with all fifty
state flags dangling from the rafters, three stadium-size
video screens flash the name of the conference:
reclaiming america for christ. These are the evangelical
activists behind the nation's most effective political
machine -- one that brought more than 4 million new
Christian voters to the polls last November, sending
George W. Bush back to the White House and thirty-two new
pro-lifers to Congress. But despite their unprecedented
power, fundamentalists still see themselves as a
persecuted minority, waging a holy war against the
godless forces of secularism. To rouse themselves, they
kick off the festivities with "Soldiers of the Cross,
Arise," the bloodthirstiest tune in all of Christendom:
"Seize your armor, gird it on/Now the battle will be
won/Soon, your enemies all slain/Crowns of glory you
shall gain."
Meet the Dominionists -- biblical literalists who believe
God has called them to take over the U.S. government. As
the far-right wing of the evangelical movement,
Dominionists are pressing an agenda that makes Newt
Gingrich's Contract With America look like the Communist
Manifesto. They want to rewrite schoolbooks to reflect a
Christian version of American history, pack the nation's
courts with judges who follow Old Testament law, post the
Ten Commandments in every courthouse and make it a felony
for gay men to have sex and women to have abortions. In
Florida, when the courts ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding
tube removed, it was the Dominionists who organized
round-the-clock protests and issued a fiery call for Gov.
Jeb Bush to defy the law and take Schiavo into state
custody. Their ultimate goal is to plant the seeds of a
"faith-based" government that will endure far longer than
Bush's presidency -- all the way until Jesus comes back.
"Most people hear them talk about a 'Christian nation'
and think, 'Well, that sounds like a good, moral thing,'
says the Rev. Mel White, who ghostwrote Jerry Falwell's
autobiography before breaking with the evangelical
movement. "What they don't know -- what even most
conservative Christians who voted for Bush don't know --
is that 'Christian nation' means something else entirely
to these Dominionist leaders. This movement is no more
about following the example of Christ than Bush's Clean
Water Act is about clean water."
The godfather of the Dominionists is D. James Kennedy,
the most influential evangelical you've never heard of. A
former Arthur Murray dance instructor, he launched his
Florida ministry in 1959, when most evangelicals still
followed Billy Graham's gospel of nonpartisan soul-
saving. Kennedy built Coral Ridge Ministries into a $37-
million-a-year empire, with a TV-and-radio audience of 3
million, by preaching that it was time to save America --
not soul by soul but election by election. After helping
found the Moral Majority in 1979, Kennedy became a five-
star general in the Christian army. Bush sought his
blessing before running for president -- and continues to
consult top Dominionists on matters of federal policy.
"Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the
cost," Kennedy says. "As the vice regents of God, we are
to exercise godly dominion and influence over our
neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our
literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment
media, our news media, our scientific endeavors -- in
short, over every aspect and institution of human
society."
At Reclaiming America, most of the conference is taken up
by grassroots training sessions that supply ministers,
retirees and devout churchgoers with "The Facts of Stem-
Cell Research" or "Practical Steps to Impact Your
Community with America's Historical Judeo-Christian
Heritage." "We're going to turn you into an army of one,"
Gary Cass, executive director of Reclaiming America,
promises activists at one workshop held in Evangalism
Explosion Hall. The Dominionists also attend speeches by
supporters like Rep. Katherine Harris of Florida, who
urges them to "win back America for God." In their spare
time, conference-goers buy books about a God-devised
health program called the Maker's Diet or meet with a
financial adviser who offers a "biblically sound
investment plan."
To implement their sweeping agenda, the Dominionists are
working to remake the federal courts in God's image. In
their view, the Founding Fathers never intended to erect
a barrier between politics and religion. "The First
Amendment does not say there should be a separation of
church and state," declares Alan Sears, president and CEO
of the Alliance Defense Fund, a team of 750 attorneys
trained by the Dominionists to fight abortion and gay
marriage. Sears argues that the constitutional guarantee
against state-sponsored religion is actually designed to
"shield" the church from federal interference -- allowing
Christians to take their rightful place at the head of
the government. "We have a right, indeed an obligation,
to govern," says David Limbaugh, brother of Rush and
author of Persecution: How Liberals Are Waging War
Against Christianity. Nothing gets the Dominionists to
their feet faster than ringing condemnations of judicial
tyranny. "Activist judges have systematically
deconstructed the Constitution," roars Rick Scarborough,
author of Mixing Church and State. "A God-free society is
their goal!"
Activist judges, of course, are precisely what the
Dominionists want. Their model is Roy Moore, the former
Alabama chief justice who installed a 5,300-pound granite
memorial to the Ten Commandments, complete with an open
Bible carved in its top, in the state judicial building.
At Reclaiming America, Roy's Rock sits out front, fresh
off a tour of twenty-one states, perched on the flag-
festooned flatbed of a diesel truck, a potent symbol of
the "faith-based" justice the Dominionists are bent on
imposing. Activists at the conference pose for
photographs beside the rock and have circulated a
petition urging President Bush to appoint Moore -- who
once penned an opinion calling for the state to execute
"practicing homosexuals" -- to the U.S. Supreme Court.
"The other side knows we've got strongholds in the
executive and legislative branches," Cass tells the
troops. "If we start winning the judiciary, their power
base is going to be eroded."
To pack the courts with fundamentalists like Moore,
Dominionist leaders are planning a massive media blitz.
They're also pressuring Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
-- an ally who's courting support for his presidential
bid -- to halt the long-standing use of filibusters to
hold up judicial nominations. An anti-filibuster petition
circulating at the conference blasts Democrats for their
"outrageous stonewalling of appointments" --even though
Congress has approved more nominees of Bush than of any
president since Jimmy Carter.
It helps that Dominionists have a direct line to the
White House: The Rev. Richard Land, top lobbyist for the
16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention, enjoys a
weekly conference call with top Bush advisers including
Karl Rove. "We've got the Holy Spirit's wind at our
backs!" Land declares in an arm-waving, red-faced speech.
He takes particular aim at the threat posed by John
Lennon, denouncing "Imagine" as a "secular anthem" that
envisions a future of "clone plantations, child
sacrifice, legalized polygamy and hard-core porn."
The Dominionists are also stepping up efforts to turn
public schools into forums for evangelism. In a landmark
case, the Alliance Defense Fund is suing a California
school district that threatened to dismiss a born-again
teacher who was evangelizing fifth-graders. In the
conference's opening ceremony, the Dominionists recite an
oath they dream of hearing in every classroom: "I pledge
allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the Savior for
whose kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen and
coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe."
Cass urges conference-goers to stack school boards with
Dominionists. "The most humble Christian is more
qualified for office than the best-educated pagan," says
Cass, an anti-abortion activist who led a takeover of his
school district's board in San Diego. "We built quite a
little grass-roots machine out there. Now it's my burden
to multiply that success all across America."
Cass points to the Rev. Gary Beeler, a Baptist minister
from Tennessee who got permission for thousands of
students to skip class and attend weeklong events that he
calls "old-time revivals, with preaching and singing and
soul-saving and the whole nine yards." Now, with support
from Kennedy, Beeler is selling his house and buying a
mobile home to spread his crusade nationwide. "It's not
exactly what I planned to do with my retirement," he
says. "But it's what God told me to do."
Cass also presents another small-town activist, Kevin
McCoy, with a Salt and Light Award for leading a
successful campaign to shut down an anti-bullying program
in West Virginia schools. McCoy, a soft-spoken,
prematurely gray postal worker, fought to end the program
because it taught tolerance for gay people -- and thus,
in his view, constituted a "thinly disguised effort to
promote the homosexual agenda." "What America needs,"
Cass tells the faithful, "is more Kevin McCoys."
While the dominionists rely on grass-roots activists to
fight their battles, they are backed by some of America's
richest entrepreneurs. Amway founder Rich DeVos, a
Kennedy ally who's the leading Republican contender for
governor of Michigan, has tossed more than $5 million
into the collection plate. Jean Case, wife of former AOL
chief Steve Case -- whose fortune was made largely on
sex-chat rooms -- has donated $8 million. And Tom
Monaghan, founder of Domino's Pizza, is a major source of
cash for Focus on the Family, a megaministry working with
Kennedy to eliminate all public schools.
The one-two punch of militant activists and big money has
helped make the Dominionists a force in Washington, where
a growing number of congressmen owe their elections to
the machine. Kennedy has also created the Center for
Christian Statesmanship, which trains elected officials
to "more effectively share their faith in the public
arena." Speaking to the group, House Majority Whip Tom
DeLay -- a winner of Kennedy's Distinguished Christian
Statesman Award -- called Bush's faith-based initiatives
"a great opportunity to bring God back into the public
institutions of our country."
The most vivid proof of the Christianizing of Capitol
Hill comes at the final session of Reclaiming America.
Rep. Walter Jones, a lanky congressman from North
Carolina, gives a fire-and-brimstone speech that would
have gotten him laughed out of Washington thirty years
ago. In today's climate, however, he's got a chance of
passing his pet project, the Houses of Worship Free
Speech Restoration Act, which would permit ministers to
endorse political candidates from their pulpits,
effectively converting their tax-exempt churches into
Republican campaign headquarters.
"America is under assault!" Jones thunders as his aides
dash around the sanctuary snapping PR photos. "Everyone
in America has the right to speak freely, except for
those standing in the pulpits of our churches!" The amen
chorus reaches a fever pitch. Hands fly heavenward. It's
one thing to hear such words from Dominionist leaders --
but to this crowd, there's nothing more thrilling than
getting the gospel from a U.S. congressman. "You cannot
have a strong nation that does not follow God," Jones
preaches, working up to a climactic, passionate plea for
a biblical republic. "God, please -- God, please -- God,
please -- save America!"
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http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
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The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
14 Apr 2005 07:47:38 PM |
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Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
14 Apr 2005 08:26:21 PM |
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In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two ot three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world).
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
14 Apr 2005 10:39:27 PM |
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Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two ot three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world).
What's it going to take? Once they have the courts and the
government in their pocket, they'll decide that elections
are unchristian - there's not a word about democracy in the
bible after all. The only way to get them out then will be
a civil war!
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
15 Apr 2005 08:22:12 AM |
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"For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but
against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against
those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wicked
spirits in the heavenly realms. Use every piece of God's armor to
resist the enemy in the time of evil, so that after the battle you will
still be standing firm. Stand your ground, putting on the sturdy belt
of truth and the body armor of God's righteousness. For shoes, put on
the peace that comes from the Good News, so that you will be fully
prepared." NLT Eph 6:12-15
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
15 Apr 2005 08:22:25 AM |
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"For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but
against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against
those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wicked
spirits in the heavenly realms. Use every piece of God's armor to
resist the enemy in the time of evil, so that after the battle you will
still be standing firm. Stand your ground, putting on the sturdy belt
of truth and the body armor of God's righteousness. For shoes, put on
the peace that comes from the Good News, so that you will be fully
prepared." NLT Eph 6:12-15
.
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
14 Apr 2005 10:49:17 PM |
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In article <ziC7e.44375$mV1.40253@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two or three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world).
What's it going to take? Once they have the courts and the
government in their pocket, they'll decide that elections
are unchristian - there's not a word about democracy in the
bible after all. The only way to get them out then will be
a civil war!
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
15 Apr 2005 08:24:25 AM |
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"In every battle you will need faith as your shield to stop the fiery
arrows aimed at you by Satan. Put on salvation as your helmet, and take
the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Pray at all times
and on every occasion in the power of the Holy Spirit. Stay alert and
be persistent in your prayers for all Christians everywhere." NLT Eph
6:16-18
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| User: "rj" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
15 Apr 2005 11:48:17 AM |
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"cteasd5941@gmail.com" <cteasd5941@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1113553465.263559.132990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
"In every battle you will need faith as your shield to stop the fiery
arrows aimed at you by Satan. Put on salvation as your helmet, and take
the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Pray at all times
and on every occasion in the power of the Holy Spirit. Stay alert and
be persistent in your prayers for all Christians everywhere." NLT Eph
6:16-18
plonk! another assshole bites the dust.
rj
--
"I'm an atheist, thank God." - Dave Allen
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
15 Apr 2005 06:56:11 AM |
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Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <ziC7e.44375$mV1.40253@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two or three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world).
What's it going to take? Once they have the courts and the
government in their pocket, they'll decide that elections
are unchristian - there's not a word about democracy in the
bible after all. The only way to get them out then will be
a civil war!
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
You can't educate people who don't want to learn.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
.
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| User: "circlehat" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
15 Apr 2005 11:47:40 AM |
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Graham Kennedy wrote:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <ziC7e.44375$mV1.40253@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two or three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world).
What's it going to take? Once they have the courts and the
government in their pocket, they'll decide that elections
are unchristian - there's not a word about democracy in the
bible after all. The only way to get them out then will be
a civil war!
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
You can't educate people who don't want to learn.
You also can't educate people who have already
made their mindup religiously. If religious people
were honest they would put their point of view
and leave the debate to those open to consideration.
Instead the religious quote scripture implying
their reading of it is god given and undebateable.
In disrespecting discourse, and disrespecting
non-religious points of view, they filtered scripture
through their own personal prejudice as definitive.
They don't seem to get that both the reading and
what is read out of the bible is totally debateable
when non-Christians are being asked to accept
conclusions based on the bible as laws of the land.
They also seem oblivious to the consequences of
having to debate a two thousand year old text
and it's relevancy to the 21st century. That
Jesus was neither a very good predictor of the
future, or pointer to solutions. In fact Christianity
seems very good at keeping people poor, indebted
to preists who historically have been less than
preistly, whether it be child molesters, or
uncovering child molestors, the holocaust, etc, etc.
Christians, if they are being evil, they are
bungingup communications with irrelevent nonsense.
Like we've never heard of the bible and haven't
already rejected it.
.
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| User: "WillieJ" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
16 Apr 2005 03:02:48 AM |
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Circlehat, you are falling into the trap of painting everyone with a
broad brush. I am a Christian and don't push my views on others. As far
as Christianity being "very good at keeping people poor", that is a bit
of an outlandish statement. Many Christian organizations work very hard
to help the poor.
I am totally against putting that rock of the 10 commandments in the
courthouse. If we do, any religion could demand equal time. That, my
friend with the circle hat, is the scary thing.
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| User: "circlehat" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
16 Apr 2005 05:20:20 AM |
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WillieJ wrote:
Circlehat, you are falling into the trap of painting everyone with a
broad brush. I am a Christian and don't push my views on others. As far
as Christianity being "very good at keeping people poor", that is a bit
of an outlandish statement. Many Christian organizations work very hard
to help the poor.
I am totally against putting that rock of the 10 commandments in the
courthouse. If we do, any religion could demand equal time. That, my
friend with the circle hat, is the scary thing.
I have no problem with the ten commandments on the
wall of the Supreme court of the USA, as long
as it's not a shrine used to deliberate cases.
America has been successful preciselyh because
it kept religion from civil life. As a great
American inventor put it, "Religion is bunk".
Edison was spot on.
When you have any insititution that fears
criticism like religion then you are liable
to find immoral works held up as 'good'.
One such is the way in which Christians
as a community destroy people holding them
to be inferior and destitute is through
charity. If I wanted to create an underclass
I would legistlate onerous laws that removed
the ability of my fellow citizens to make
choices for themselves and find remedies
to wrong done to them, whilst of course
create a social grouping that supports
members thus removing the burden to oneself
of said onerous laws.Then just to add
insult to injury I would setup a charitable
trust to help the now poverty striken who
now are unable in the 21st century find food,
housing, health care unless they joinup
to one of our Christian societies for mututal
advantage. You goto work, you feed the organ
grinder then you declare that your better
because you do good works, works that wouldn't
be needed if your society hadn't disadvantaged
people to start with. Whether it be lawyers
attack schools to get them to add religious
classes, whether schools, courtrooms, science
textbooks, abortion clinics, all that bad
blood makes it harder for non-christians
to get by, to have children or abort them,
to get a fair trial because all the best
lawyers are defending the constitution against
the wrath of Jesus freaks. There is no
middle ground you either a anti-progessive
Jesus freak or you despise eevrything about them
and openly reject their beliefs. Why? because
their your communities freaks! Christian, deal with them.
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
15 Apr 2005 12:48:01 PM |
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circlehat wrote:
Graham Kennedy wrote:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <ziC7e.44375$mV1.40253@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two or three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world).
What's it going to take? Once they have the courts and the
government in their pocket, they'll decide that elections
are unchristian - there's not a word about democracy in the
bible after all. The only way to get them out then will be
a civil war!
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
You can't educate people who don't want to learn.
You also can't educate people who have already
made their mindup religiously. If religious people
were honest they would put their point of view
and leave the debate to those open to consideration.
Instead the religious quote scripture implying
their reading of it is god given and undebateable.
Fanatical theists approach debate from the exact
opposite direction that reasonable people do.
Where you or I might consider the facts and see what
conclusion they lead to, for the fanatic this is
completely wrongheaded. They are not trying to arrive
at an honest conclusion - they don't think they need
to, they think they already have a true and perfect
answer to any question. And since their conclusion is
true, then the facts *must* support it.
The upshot being that anything which contradicts their
beliefs must be incorrect. Quoting statistics or logic
or evidence to them is useless, because they simply
will not believe in any of those things if they
contradict their beliefs. So it is utterly impossible
to argue with the fanatic, and it is utterly impossible
to educate them.
One can only agree to disagree - or fight.
In disrespecting discourse, and disrespecting
non-religious points of view, they filtered scripture
through their own personal prejudice as definitive.
They don't seem to get that both the reading and
what is read out of the bible is totally debateable
when non-Christians are being asked to accept
conclusions based on the bible as laws of the land.
It's not that they don't get that, it's just that
they will not believe it. As far as they are concerned
their interpretation is the only possible interpretation;
everybody who interprets it differently is simply being
dishonest.
This is one way christians in particular paint themselves
as a minority. Yes they are in the overwhelming majority
but that's not really true, because most christians aren't
"true" christians.
Catholics for instance. Where I grew up, catholics are
regarded as being the real, original christians.
Protestants are also christian, but they're a fairly
lukewarm, Johnny-come-lately version.
Such differences are largely lost on an atheist like me,
but I could get that catholics are the biggest christian
group and so if anybody could claim to be the "real"
christians, they could. I was staggered when I first
encountered US fundy-type christians who casually
dismiss 90%+ of the world's christians as being not
real christians.
They also seem oblivious to the consequences of
having to debate a two thousand year old text
and it's relevancy to the 21st century. That
Jesus was neither a very good predictor of the
future, or pointer to solutions.
Ah, but to them Jesus was a literally perfect predictor
of the future who is perfectly relevant.
It's the same as any other argument with them; following
the bible rules is good by definition - if the bible said
murder little babies then in their mind, murdering little
babies would be a good and completely moral thing to do.
If modern society says otherwise then it is modern society
that is sick and wrong because it's trying to turn people
away from the moral way to behave.
In fact Christianity
seems very good at keeping people poor, indebted
to preists who historically have been less than
preistly, whether it be child molesters, or
uncovering child molestors, the holocaust, etc, etc.
Christians, if they are being evil, they are
bungingup communications with irrelevent nonsense.
Like we've never heard of the bible and haven't
already rejected it.
Nice quote on this :
You find as you look around the world that every single bit of
progress of humane feeling, every improvement in the criminal
law, every step toward the diminution of war, every step
toward better treatment of the colored races, or every
mitigation of slavery, every moral progress that there has
been in the world, has been consistently opposed by the
organized churches of the world. I say quite deliberately
that the Christian religion, as organized in its churches,
has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress
in the world.
Bertrand Russell.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
.
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| User: "circlehat" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
15 Apr 2005 01:27:23 PM |
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Graham Kennedy wrote:
circlehat wrote:
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
You can't educate people who don't want to learn.
You also can't educate people who have already
made their mindup religiously. If religious people
were honest they would put their point of view
and leave the debate to those open to consideration.
Instead the religious quote scripture implying
their reading of it is god given and undebateable.
Fanatical theists approach debate from the exact
opposite direction that reasonable people do.
Where you or I might consider the facts and see what
conclusion they lead to, for the fanatic this is
completely wrongheaded. They are not trying to arrive
at an honest conclusion - they don't think they need
to, they think they already have a true and perfect
answer to any question. And since their conclusion is
true, then the facts *must* support it.
The upshot being that anything which contradicts their
beliefs must be incorrect. Quoting statistics or logic
or evidence to them is useless, because they simply
will not believe in any of those things if they
contradict their beliefs. So it is utterly impossible
to argue with the fanatic, and it is utterly impossible
to educate them.
One can only agree to disagree - or fight.
You can't educate them but you can show them
the consequences of their decisions. If
they agree with say the death penulty,
ask them if a corrupt police force fitted
them up for a crime how they would get out
of it. IF they say God would see them right,
suggest it was the devils work. Eventually
even the most harded believer can be
convinced that liberalism is good for them,
for they had to be convinced that it wasn't
at some point.
In disrespecting discourse, and disrespecting
non-religious points of view, they filtered scripture
through their own personal prejudice as definitive.
They don't seem to get that both the reading and
what is read out of the bible is totally debateable
when non-Christians are being asked to accept
conclusions based on the bible as laws of the land.
It's not that they don't get that, it's just that
they will not believe it. As far as they are concerned
their interpretation is the only possible interpretation;
everybody who interprets it differently is simply being
dishonest.
This is one way christians in particular paint themselves
as a minority. Yes they are in the overwhelming majority
but that's not really true, because most christians aren't
"true" christians.
Christian love to be victims, I hear you.
Catholics for instance. Where I grew up, catholics are
regarded as being the real, original christians.
Protestants are also christian, but they're a fairly
lukewarm, Johnny-come-lately version.
Such differences are largely lost on an atheist like me,
but I could get that catholics are the biggest christian
group and so if anybody could claim to be the "real"
christians, they could. I was staggered when I first
encountered US fundy-type christians who casually
dismiss 90%+ of the world's christians as being not
real christians.
They also seem oblivious to the consequences of
having to debate a two thousand year old text
and it's relevancy to the 21st century. That
Jesus was neither a very good predictor of the
future, or pointer to solutions.
Ah, but to them Jesus was a literally perfect predictor
of the future who is perfectly relevant.
Yeah, it took Jesus a few minutes to heal the
blind, yet he forgot to tell anyone how and
science has only cured billions of eye
problems in a matter of 5 decades many
of them Christians freakoids. Goes to
show who I put my faith in. Science or
hypocrites.
It's the same as any other argument with them; following
the bible rules is good by definition - if the bible said
murder little babies then in their mind, murdering little
babies would be a good and completely moral thing to do.
If modern society says otherwise then it is modern society
that is sick and wrong because it's trying to turn people
away from the moral way to behave.
In fact Christianity
seems very good at keeping people poor, indebted
to preists who historically have been less than
preistly, whether it be child molesters, or
uncovering child molestors, the holocaust, etc, etc.
Christians, if they are being evil, they are
bungingup communications with irrelevent nonsense.
Like we've never heard of the bible and haven't
already rejected it.
Nice quote on this :
You find as you look around the world that every single bit of
progress of humane feeling, every improvement in the criminal
law, every step toward the diminution of war, every step
toward better treatment of the colored races, or every
mitigation of slavery, every moral progress that there has
been in the world, has been consistently opposed by the
organized churches of the world. I say quite deliberately
that the Christian religion, as organized in its churches,
has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress
in the world.
Bertrand Russell.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
.
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
15 Apr 2005 09:11:00 PM |
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circlehat wrote:
The upshot being that anything which contradicts their
beliefs must be incorrect. Quoting statistics or logic
or evidence to them is useless, because they simply
will not believe in any of those things if they
contradict their beliefs. So it is utterly impossible
to argue with the fanatic, and it is utterly impossible
to educate them.
One can only agree to disagree - or fight.
You can't educate them but you can show them
the consequences of their decisions. If
they agree with say the death penulty,
ask them if a corrupt police force fitted
them up for a crime how they would get out
of it. IF they say God would see them right,
suggest it was the devils work. Eventually
even the most harded believer can be
convinced that liberalism is good for them,
for they had to be convinced that it wasn't
at some point.
But that still presumes that you can show them
that their beliefs lead to bad things happening.
This is *impossible*.
For instance, assuming that you could convince
a fanatic that his religion dictates the death
penalty should be used, and that maybe one day
he might be wrongly convicted and killed because
of this. He would simply say that this was a
result of the evil secular corrupt police and
activist judges, not the good and holy system of
execution.
If pushed he'd even say that yes, if necessary
his own death would be a good thing. The fanatic
doesn't fear death. The fanatic doesn't fear
anything, and there is nothing that can convince
him.
Ah, but to them Jesus was a literally perfect predictor
of the future who is perfectly relevant.
Yeah, it took Jesus a few minutes to heal the
blind, yet he forgot to tell anyone how and
science has only cured billions of eye
problems in a matter of 5 decades many
of them Christians freakoids. Goes to
show who I put my faith in. Science or
hypocrites.
All part of god's great plan...
(Two guys see God walking along the road, alternately
skipping, hopping, and doing handstands. "What's that?"
"Oh, that's just the lord moving in a mysterious way.")
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
.
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| User: "circlehat" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
16 Apr 2005 01:40:16 AM |
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Graham Kennedy wrote:
circlehat wrote:
The upshot being that anything which contradicts their
beliefs must be incorrect. Quoting statistics or logic
or evidence to them is useless, because they simply
will not believe in any of those things if they
contradict their beliefs. So it is utterly impossible
to argue with the fanatic, and it is utterly impossible
to educate them.
One can only agree to disagree - or fight.
You can't educate them but you can show them
the consequences of their decisions. If
they agree with say the death penulty,
ask them if a corrupt police force fitted
them up for a crime how they would get out
of it. IF they say God would see them right,
suggest it was the devils work. Eventually
even the most harded believer can be
convinced that liberalism is good for them,
for they had to be convinced that it wasn't
at some point.
But that still presumes that you can show them
that their beliefs lead to bad things happening.
This is *impossible*.
Unless you are assuming religious belief isn't
learnt and cannot be unlearnt. People when
confronted with realities, like their kid
dying from cancer have and will continue to
accept science where once their stated beliefs
wouldn't of.
For instance, assuming that you could convince
a fanatic that his religion dictates the death
penalty should be used, and that maybe one day
he might be wrongly convicted and killed because
of this. He would simply say that this was a
result of the evil secular corrupt police and
activist judges, not the good and holy system of
execution.
If he found his daughter in Bali on charges
of importing drugs and a possible death sentance
he may well start doubting his beliefs. You
see you have to observe the numbskulls, and
as you do you will see that they change their
beliefs as to what God wants to suit their own
desires and status within their own communities.
It is because they are human that they are open
to being changed.
If pushed he'd even say that yes, if necessary
his own death would be a good thing. The fanatic
doesn't fear death. The fanatic doesn't fear
anything, and there is nothing that can convince
him.
Yes, but not every Christian is a fanatic.
If you change the church opinions of the
mass of Christians the fanatic has no pillar
to stand on. If the new Pope accepts abortion
or contraceptives like the last one accepted
evolution and said sorry for Papal mistakes
throughout history, then you being to see
that fanatics have a foundation. It's just
as matter of tkaing that scaffolding down.
Ah, but to them Jesus was a literally perfect predictor
of the future who is perfectly relevant.
Yeah, it took Jesus a few minutes to heal the
blind, yet he forgot to tell anyone how and
science has only cured billions of eye
problems in a matter of 5 decades many
of them Christians freakoids. Goes to
show who I put my faith in. Science or
hypocrites.
All part of god's great plan...
(Two guys see God walking along the road, alternately
skipping, hopping, and doing handstands. "What's that?"
"Oh, that's just the lord moving in a mysterious way.")
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
.
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
16 Apr 2005 10:22:49 AM |
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circlehat wrote:
But that still presumes that you can show them
that their beliefs lead to bad things happening.
This is *impossible*.
Unless you are assuming religious belief isn't
learnt and cannot be unlearnt.
I'm saying that Fanatical religious belief is learned,
and cannot be unlearned.
People when
confronted with realities, like their kid
dying from cancer have and will continue to
accept science where once their stated beliefs
wouldn't of.
Many will, yes - not all believers are fanatical. But
some are, and those cannot be argued out of it by
any means. That's what it means to be a fanatic.
If pushed he'd even say that yes, if necessary
his own death would be a good thing. The fanatic
doesn't fear death. The fanatic doesn't fear
anything, and there is nothing that can convince
him.
Yes, but not every Christian is a fanatic.
True, and because of this I do think it's important
to keep trying to convert those you can. But fanaticism
seems to be one the increase these days.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
.
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| User: "circlehat" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
16 Apr 2005 11:36:30 PM |
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Graham Kennedy wrote:
circlehat wrote:
But that still presumes that you can show them
that their beliefs lead to bad things happening.
This is *impossible*.
Unless you are assuming religious belief isn't
learnt and cannot be unlearnt.
I'm saying that Fanatical religious belief is learned,
and cannot be unlearned.
I disagree, they die don't they. Therefore if
they get Alzheimer's or something their beliefs
will change, even revert back to before they
became terminally stupid. So if given that
physical changes can occur then why would you
say mental changes could never. Hey, they
could almost get killed and decide that
really they aren't getting enough sex being
a pious prig that they searching for cheap *****.
Your viewing their beliefs as absolute when
there are no absolutes.
People when
confronted with realities, like their kid
dying from cancer have and will continue to
accept science where once their stated beliefs
wouldn't of.
Many will, yes - not all believers are fanatical. But
some are, and those cannot be argued out of it by
any means. That's what it means to be a fanatic.
I disagree. They got into the mess by believe it
was in their best interests to believe, they can
be shown that their best interests aren't being served.
If pushed he'd even say that yes, if necessary
his own death would be a good thing. The fanatic
doesn't fear death. The fanatic doesn't fear
anything, and there is nothing that can convince
him.
Yes, but not every Christian is a fanatic.
True, and because of this I do think it's important
to keep trying to convert those you can. But fanaticism
seems to be one the increase these days.
It looks that way, but actually fanatics look
more fanatical and most people see that, so
it's more too do with the media hyping these
idiots than an actual ground swell. Then of
course there are the huge industrial churches
in the US that provide a refuge against the
increase crime, hopelessness, etc but their
not real fanatics per se they are influenced
because their is a free gym.
I'm just against defeatism, I don't know
everything so I will not assume that something
I don't know everything about, i.e. the mind,
universe, or anything, is restricted by a God
or by someone saying it's impossible to change
peoples minds (because thats how they got to
their fanaticism by changing their minds).
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
17 Apr 2005 01:00:09 AM |
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circlehat wrote:
Graham Kennedy wrote:
circlehat wrote:
But that still presumes that you can show them
that their beliefs lead to bad things happening.
This is *impossible*.
Unless you are assuming religious belief isn't
learnt and cannot be unlearnt.
I'm saying that Fanatical religious belief is learned,
and cannot be unlearned.
I disagree, they die don't they.
That they do.
Therefore if
they get Alzheimer's or something their beliefs
will change, even revert back to before they
became terminally stupid.
I think - I hope - that most Christians are not fanatical
about their beliefs, and are indeed open to reason. By
all means we should work on reaching those people, and
that could be enough by itself.
But the number of fanatics seems to be growing, and this
is worrying because once you are a true fanatic there is
no sensible way to deconvert them.
Just look at the "deprogramming" used on cult members.
That kind of ultra-intense, direct one-to-one intervention
*still* isn't successful in many cases. To suggest that we
are going to be able to argue large numbers of fanatics out
of their belief by any sensible means is wrongheaded, IMHO.
The best thing to do is work on preventing people from
becoming fanatics in the first place. That's what the whole
education battle is about now - the fanatics are absolutely
determined to get their claws into kids in every way possible
throughout their childhoods.
So if given that
physical changes can occur then why would you
say mental changes could never. Hey, they
could almost get killed and decide that
really they aren't getting enough sex being
a pious prig that they searching for cheap *****.
Your viewing their beliefs as absolute when
there are no absolutes.
I think pinning our hopes on the idea that millions of
fanatical Christians might have a near death experience and
become convinced that their beliefs are not so certain after
all might not be the best way to go...
True, and because of this I do think it's important
to keep trying to convert those you can. But fanaticism
seems to be one the increase these days.
It looks that way, but actually fanatics look
more fanatical and most people see that, so
it's more too do with the media hyping these
idiots than an actual ground swell. Then of
course there are the huge industrial churches
in the US that provide a refuge against the
increase crime, hopelessness, etc but their
not real fanatics per se they are influenced
because their is a free gym.
I very much hope you are right. I very much hope that
there is a line drawn in most people's minds where
they will say "this is going too far". Maybe when
they start outlawing other religions outright.
But I'm very much afraid that by the time this comes,
the government and courts will have been subverted to
such an extent that there's no legal way back. By the
time people wake up to what's going on, it might be
time for the Second American Civil War.
Hopefully it won't come to pass. Maybe twenty years
from now it'll all have blown over and we'll be
wondering what the fuss was about.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
.
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| User: "circlehat" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
17 Apr 2005 02:26:50 AM |
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Graham Kennedy wrote:
circlehat wrote:
Graham Kennedy wrote:
circlehat wrote:
But that still presumes that you can show them
that their beliefs lead to bad things happening.
This is *impossible*.
Unless you are assuming religious belief isn't
learnt and cannot be unlearnt.
I'm saying that Fanatical religious belief is learned,
and cannot be unlearned.
I disagree, they die don't they.
That they do.
Therefore if
they get Alzheimer's or something their beliefs
will change, even revert back to before they
became terminally stupid.
I think - I hope - that most Christians are not fanatical
about their beliefs, and are indeed open to reason. By
all means we should work on reaching those people, and
that could be enough by itself.
But the number of fanatics seems to be growing, and this
is worrying because once you are a true fanatic there is
no sensible way to deconvert them.
Just look at the "deprogramming" used on cult members.
That kind of ultra-intense, direct one-to-one intervention
*still* isn't successful in many cases. To suggest that we
are going to be able to argue large numbers of fanatics out
of their belief by any sensible means is wrongheaded, IMHO.
I've only said it can be done. Not that it should be
attempted, nor even achieveable on mass.
The best thing to do is work on preventing people from
becoming fanatics in the first place. That's what the whole
education battle is about now - the fanatics are absolutely
determined to get their claws into kids in every way possible
throughout their childhoods.
I disagree, if people are stupid enough to give their
kids a crappy education then so be it. Why shouldn't
others profit.
So if given that
physical changes can occur then why would you
say mental changes could never. Hey, they
could almost get killed and decide that
really they aren't getting enough sex being
a pious prig that they searching for cheap *****.
Your viewing their beliefs as absolute when
there are no absolutes.
I think pinning our hopes on the idea that millions of
fanatical Christians might have a near death experience and
become convinced that their beliefs are not so certain after
all might not be the best way to go...
Look, it's obvious to me that politicians and the
media are using the religious right to make money
for themselves and their families. It's their
turn, once they talked up unionists, then they
talkup the racists, then the hippies, it's timeless
and every generation has their golden goose.
True, and because of this I do think it's important
to keep trying to convert those you can. But fanaticism
seems to be one the increase these days.
It looks that way, but actually fanatics look
more fanatical and most people see that, so
it's more too do with the media hyping these
idiots than an actual ground swell. Then of
course there are the huge industrial churches
in the US that provide a refuge against the
increase crime, hopelessness, etc but their
not real fanatics per se they are influenced
because their is a free gym.
I very much hope you are right. I very much hope that
there is a line drawn in most people's minds where
they will say "this is going too far". Maybe when
they start outlawing other religions outright.
But I'm very much afraid that by the time this comes,
the government and courts will have been subverted to
such an extent that there's no legal way back. By the
time people wake up to what's going on, it might be
time for the Second American Civil War.
Hopefully it won't come to pass. Maybe twenty years
from now it'll all have blown over and we'll be
wondering what the fuss was about.
I agree that it may get out of control and
suck like Germany under Hitler, but look on
the bright side for fifty years after the
war the world was a very nice place to live for
progessives like us. Every generation has
to exercise their demons, it's like taking a
dead virus and getting innoculated. That's
why I believe honestly Bush is an atheist.
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
15 Apr 2005 07:41:36 AM |
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In article <fAJ7e.46879$mV1.27688@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <ziC7e.44375$mV1.40253@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two or three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world). - Jai Maharaj
What's it going to take? Once they have the courts and the
government in their pocket, they'll decide that elections
are unchristian - there's not a word about democracy in the
bible after all. The only way to get them out then will be
a civil war!
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
- Jai Maharaj
You can't educate people who don't want to learn.
Everyone wants to learn *something*. An effective
educator uses that as the vehicle to deliver additional
information.
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
15 Apr 2005 08:35:30 AM |
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And pray for me, too. Ask God to give me the right words as I boldly
explain God's secret plan that the Good News is for the Gentiles, too.
NLT Eph 6:19
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
16 Apr 2005 12:06:53 AM |
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Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <fAJ7e.46879$mV1.27688@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <ziC7e.44375$mV1.40253@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two or three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world). - Jai Maharaj
What's it going to take? Once they have the courts and the
government in their pocket, they'll decide that elections
are unchristian - there's not a word about democracy in the
bible after all. The only way to get them out then will be
a civil war!
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
- Jai Maharaj
You can't educate people who don't want to learn.
Everyone wants to learn *something*. An effective
educator uses that as the vehicle to deliver additional
information.
It seems to me that there is a significant percentage of the
population who actively dislike learning, distrust intelligence,
refuse to even look at any fact that might possibly be
uncomfortable, and outright reject any conclusion that they
do not like.
It seems to me that the ranks of such people are growing,
rapidly. And nobody seems inclined to do a thing about it,
which is a shame because by the time these people are ready
to really get in your face about it, it will be too late.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
16 Apr 2005 01:03:18 AM |
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In article <xGY7e.52852$mV1.12966@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <fAJ7e.46879$mV1.27688@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <ziC7e.44375$mV1.40253@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two or three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world). - Jai Maharaj
What's it going to take? Once they have the courts and the
government in their pocket, they'll decide that elections
are unchristian - there's not a word about democracy in the
bible after all. The only way to get them out then will be
a civil war!
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
- Jai Maharaj
You can't educate people who don't want to learn.
Everyone wants to learn *something*. An effective
educator uses that as the vehicle to deliver additional
information. - Jai Maharaj
It seems to me that there is a significant percentage of the
population who actively dislike learning, distrust intelligence,
refuse to even look at any fact that might possibly be
uncomfortable, and outright reject any conclusion that they
do not like.
It seems to me that the ranks of such people are growing,
rapidly. And nobody seems inclined to do a thing about it,
which is a shame because by the time these people are ready
to really get in your face about it, it will be too late.
Did you read the following news item today?
Latest from MIT: Artificial Stupidity
By Jay Fitzgerald
The Boston Herald
Thursday, April 14, 2005 - Updated: 08:59 AM EST
Welcome to wack-ademia.
Fed up with invitations to submit papers for
science conferences, three MIT students devised a
software program that deliberately churned out
nonsensical scientific gibberish.
Now one of their computer-generated ''papers'' has
been accepted by a Florida conference.
Their fake report - ''Rooter: A Methodology for the
Typical Unification of Access Points and Redundancy'' -
is intended to show that many so-called academic
conferences have few or no minimum standards. The
gatherings' purpose: simply to make money.
''We decided to test the limits,'' said Jeremy
Stribling, a graduate student at MIT's Computer Science
and Artificial Intelligence Lab in Cambridge.
Stribling, 25, along with fellow Massachusetts
Institute of Technology grad students Daniel Aguayo, 25,
and Maxwell Krohn, 27, worked on their ''context-free
grammar'' software program for weeks.
The program randomly selects and assembles
sentences, then drops in fancy-sounding verbs and nouns
while also producing exquisitely inane charts and
graphics.
More at:
http://business.bostonherald.com/technologyNews/view.bg?articleid=78365
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
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| User: "circlehat" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image |
16 Apr 2005 02:47:06 AM |
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"Dr. Jai Maharaj" wrote:
In article <xGY7e.52852$mV1.12966@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <fAJ7e.46879$mV1.27688@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <ziC7e.44375$mV1.40253@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
In article <uNz7e.67531$C12.50996@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their own image
Scary stuff - makes me glad to be across the pond
in merry old England.
Why does nobody in America seem to be opposing this?
Apathy and lack of available time. Most American families
are too busy holding down two or three jobs to pay bills and
taxes (a large portion of which is needed for bombs and missiles
to enforce peace in the world). - Jai Maharaj
What's it going to take? Once they have the courts and the
government in their pocket, they'll decide that elections
are unchristian - there's not a word about democracy in the
bible after all. The only way to get them out then will be
a civil war!
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
- Jai Maharaj
You can't educate people who don't want to learn.
Everyone wants to learn *something*. An effective
educator uses that as the vehicle to deliver additional
information. - Jai Maharaj
It seems to me that there is a significant percentage of the
population who actively dislike learning, distrust intelligence,
refuse to even look at any fact that might possibly be
uncomfortable, and outright reject any conclusion that they
do not like.
It seems to me that the ranks of such people are growing,
rapidly. And nobody seems inclined to do a thing about it,
which is a shame because by the time these people are ready
to really get in your face about it, it will be too late.
Did you read the following news item today?
Latest from MIT: Artificial Stupidity
People naturally are lazy, give them a reason
to get off their backsides and they won't be.
Whether a religious person or a science panel
review articles, its all the same, the human condition.
Laziness. As the world changes, more rapidly
than at any time for the last sixty years,
you would expect increase exposer of inertia
as media companies uncover obvious laziness
despite the growing army of facts. Americans
look more out of touch than ever before, this
isn't a bad thing, this is merely the symptoms
of changing realities. It is now the job
of 'us' to exducate them and expose why their
they should get off their lazy backsides.
Shouting to the high rafters that their lazy,
the world is going to hell, is of course the
first set, but if that's all your position
is then YOUR being lazy. Only when you expose
why spending billions on Iraq is hurting
the neoliths of middle America will they
awaken and throw off their religious crapology.
You don't win by declaring it's impossible
to move these numbskulls forward.
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| User: "Dr. Homilete" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
02 May 2005 12:10:39 AM |
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Johnny Judas Jay "the jumpin' jackass" Maharaj wrote:
There is at least one peaceful
alternative to civil war: education
of the masses. In general, Americans
are hopelessly ill-informed about
many of the important things.
And who is going to educate Indians about the devious plans you have for
the saffronization of India, Johnny boya?
http://www.sacw.net/i_aii/hate.html
http://www.proxsa.org/politics/hindutva/nridollar.html
http://www.stopfundinghate.org/sacw/part1.html
Dr. Homilete
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| User: "Dr. Homilete" |
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| Title: Re: Christian evangelicals plotting to remake America in their ownimage |
02 May 2005 12:05:12 AM |
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Hindutva and the saffron dollar:
http://www.proxsa.org/politics/hindutva/nridollar.html
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