| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
12 Nov 2004 07:42:07 PM |
| Object: |
Christian Red Sex Education |
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Ellen Goodman - Washington Post Writers Group
11.10.04 - BOSTON -- Here it is just days after the red states gave their
presidential seal of approval to the man from Texas and we've already been
treated to another skirmish in the culture wars. The Texas Board of
Education
has now given its educational seal of approval to what may soon be dubbed
Red
Sex Ed.
The big news is the state's successful demand that textbook publishers
change
the description of marriage between "two people" to marriage between "a man
and
a woman." They also ordered that marriage be defined as "a lifelong union
between a husband and a wife."
Frankly, I found the "lifelong" description charming considering that the
Lone
Star State has one of the highest divorce rates in the country.
Massachusetts,
by the way, has the lowest divorce rate in the country. We are so fond of
marriage that we want everyone to do it.
But never mind all that. The real heart of the textbook controversy is
whether
Texas students should learn about contraception. And the answer is no.
Texas has now officially gone to abstinence-only textbooks. The students
are
learning the ABCs of sex ed without the C. And as Texas, the second-largest
book
buyer in the country, goes, so may go the nation.
Only one of the four approved books even mentions contraceptives. The
altered
lessons teach students how to avoid sexually transmitted diseases in many
ways
-- including "getting plenty of rest" -- but not by using condoms. One
actually
suggests using latex gloves to avoid contact with blood but says nothing
about
using latex... you get the idea.
Ironically, the state curriculum for health education still mandates that
students "analyze the effectiveness and ineffectiveness of barrier
protection
and other contraceptive methods." But the books have expunged the
information
they're required to learn.
In some ways, this Texas story is proof of how the abstinence-only lobby is
flexing its muscle. But Americans are nowhere nearly as polarized over sex
education as it appears in this public wrangling.
Americans have come to some sort of uneasy understanding that sex education
is
not just about health, but also about values. It's not just about biology,
but
also about relationships.
As Samantha Smoot, who heads the Texas Freedom Network that opposes
textbook
censorship, says, "Everyone agrees that abstinence is the best choice for
teenagers. And everyone thinks books should give kids real negotiation
skills
and information that helps them make responsible decisions." Last summer,
some
90 percent of Texans surveyed said they wanted teens to learn about both
abstinence and contraception.
Americans, especially parents, believe that teenagers should delay sex,
even if
we have trouble answering the next question: Until when? Some believe sex
should
be postponed until that mystical age called maturity and others until
marriage.
Everyone seems to hope that their own kids will wait till they're no longer
under our roof.
But it turns out that most parents are pragmatic as well as worried. We
have
rules and fallback positions. We don't want our kids to drink but we want
them
to call us for a ride home if they do. We don't want them to have sex but
we
hope they'll use protection if they do. If that's a mixed message, it's a
safety
message. And it's working.
Over the past decade, teen pregnancy and births are down by about 30
percent. As
a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention scientist showed, just about
half
the decrease in pregnancy comes from abstinence and half from increased
contraceptive use.
Nevertheless in Texas, which has the highest teenage birth rate in the
country,
an ardent minority is pushing abstinence-only information, or lack of
information.
Sarah Brown, who runs the National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, says
that
the public argument is out of step with private reality. "We know that
young
people spend more time engaged in the media than in school, let alone in
Mrs.
Schmidt's health education class," she says.
A lot of the deeper worries, she adds, are really about the popular and
crude
culture. "You don't know what to do about trash TV or stresses on the
family or
the latest story about hooking up or oral sex in middle school," she adds,
"But
you can go down to the school board and say, 'I hate these two pages."'
So this is where we are. We have a shared agreement on the importance of
teaching both abstinence and protection. We have as well a shared
opposition to
the culture that sells sex like doughnuts.
But in politics we see only the most polarized debate in which we're told
that
we have to choose between A for abstinence and C for contraception. In this
class, Texas gets an incomplete.
(c) 2004, Washington Post Writers Group
URL: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=18063
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
14 Nov 2004 10:38:21 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:42:07 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric L. Rice)
pontificated:
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Ellen Goodman - Washington Post Writers Group
11.10.04 - BOSTON -- Here it is just days after the red states gave their
presidential seal of approval to the man from Texas and we've already been
treated to another skirmish in the culture wars. The Texas Board of
Education
has now given its educational seal of approval to what may soon be dubbed
Red
Sex Ed.
The big news is the state's successful demand that textbook publishers
change
the description of marriage between "two people" to marriage between "a man
and
a woman." They also ordered that marriage be defined as "a lifelong union
between a husband and a wife."
Frankly, I found the "lifelong" description charming considering that the
Lone
Star State has one of the highest divorce rates in the country.
Massachusetts,
by the way, has the lowest divorce rate in the country. We are so fond of
marriage that we want everyone to do it.
But never mind all that. The real heart of the textbook controversy is
whether
Texas students should learn about contraception. And the answer is no.
Texas has now officially gone to abstinence-only textbooks. The students
are
learning the ABCs of sex ed without the C. And as Texas, the second-largest
book
buyer in the country, goes, so may go the nation.
Only one of the four approved books even mentions contraceptives. The
altered
lessons teach students how to avoid sexually transmitted diseases in many
ways
-- including "getting plenty of rest" -- but not by using condoms. One
actually
suggests using latex gloves to avoid contact with blood but says nothing
about
using latex... you get the idea.
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "Kermit" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
15 Nov 2004 02:02:25 PM |
|
|
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<eb2fp0pa539mhfie021to61gsb39oh117k@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:42:07 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric L. Rice)
pontificated:
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Ellen Goodman - Washington Post Writers Group
11.10.04 - BOSTON -- Here it is just days after the red states gave their
presidential seal of approval to the man from Texas and we've already been
treated to another skirmish in the culture wars. The Texas Board of
Education
has now given its educational seal of approval to what may soon be dubbed
Red
Sex Ed.
The big news is the state's successful demand that textbook publishers
change
the description of marriage between "two people" to marriage between "a man
and
a woman." They also ordered that marriage be defined as "a lifelong union
between a husband and a wife."
Frankly, I found the "lifelong" description charming considering that the
Lone
Star State has one of the highest divorce rates in the country.
Massachusetts,
by the way, has the lowest divorce rate in the country. We are so fond of
marriage that we want everyone to do it.
But never mind all that. The real heart of the textbook controversy is
whether
Texas students should learn about contraception. And the answer is no.
Texas has now officially gone to abstinence-only textbooks. The students
are
learning the ABCs of sex ed without the C. And as Texas, the second-largest
book
buyer in the country, goes, so may go the nation.
Only one of the four approved books even mentions contraceptives. The
altered
lessons teach students how to avoid sexually transmitted diseases in many
ways
-- including "getting plenty of rest" -- but not by using condoms. One
actually
suggests using latex gloves to avoid contact with blood but says nothing
about
using latex... you get the idea.
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many. And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
Cities, states, or countries taht promote knowledge of birth control
and the sexual process, and have ready access to birth control
materials, have kids who have *less sex; if they have sex the couples
are *less lkely to get pregnant; and if they get pregnant they are
*less likely to have abortions. You have to decide what you want,
"Pastor": punish girls for having sex, or reducing the number of dead
fetuses. You can't do both.
What you can't believe is that people with more knowledge and options
are more likely to act in their own self-interest; and what you can't
stand is that someone, some girl or woman, may have sex and not live
to regret it.
Kermit
.
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| User: "Mike" |
|
| Title: European Atheist Blue Sex Education Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
17 Nov 2004 03:17:25 PM |
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(Kermit) wrote in message news:<2b38d8c5.0411151202.7d1fec3a@posting.google.com>...
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<eb2fp0pa539mhfie021to61gsb39oh117k@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:42:07 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric L. Rice)
pontificated:
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Would you prefer this European pure blue atheist style "sex
education"?
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article778157.ece
More 'russ' ready for porn film
On Tuesday 26 Oslo girls created a fuss by agreeing to and then
withdrawing from participating in a porn film in order to help finance
their 'russebil' - a party bus used by reveling high school graduates
known as 'russ', who traditionally use the weeks leading up to their
final exams in dissipated celebration. Now more girls are linked to
porn financing.
Russ president for Oslo and Akershus, Mie Skard, was shocked and
disappointed by the news that other russ girls were considering porn
appearances to raise funds.
Mie Skard, russ president for Oslo and Akershus county, said that
girls from seven other buses have reportedly agreed to take part in a
porn film in order to help pay for their mobile party bus.
The 26 girls from two Oslo schools had agreed to be extras in a porn
film that would feature scenes shot in their bus, and would also talk
on screen about their sex habits and fantasies.
Newspaper VG reported that two of the girls also agreed to take part
in sex scenes with porn star Thomas Rocco Hansen, but this claim had
not been confirmed.
Skard was relieved when the Oslo girls reconsidered but is now
exasperated to learn that Rocco Hansen was claiming he had contracts
with girls from seven other buses.
"All of the russ I have spoken with are shocked - luckily we have not
gone so far as to think this is OK," Skard said.
Skard admitted that the traditional competition to customize the best
russ vehicle had become an incredibly expensive habit, and that it was
now not unusual for these buses, equipped with enormous sound systems
and rebuilt interiors to cost each participant NOK 25,000 (USD 3,580).
"We can't stop someone from taking part in a porn film, but I hope
these other girls that Rocco talks about think this through one more
time," Skard said.
.
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| User: "Stein R" |
|
| Title: Re: European Atheist Blue Sex Education Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
17 Nov 2004 04:14:45 PM |
|
|
(Mike) wrote in
news:f6abd7f3.0411171317.7b8a7eb2@posting.google.com:
unrestrained_hand@hotmail.com (Kermit) wrote in message
news:<2b38d8c5.0411151202.7d1fec3a@posting.google.com>...
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<eb2fp0pa539mhfie021to61gsb39oh117k@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:42:07 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric L. Rice)
pontificated:
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Would you prefer this European pure blue atheist style "sex
education"?
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article778157.ece
More 'russ' ready for porn film
On Tuesday 26 Oslo girls created a fuss by agreeing to and then
withdrawing from participating in a porn film in order to help finance
their 'russebil' - a party bus used by reveling high school graduates
known as 'russ', who traditionally use the weeks leading up to their
final exams in dissipated celebration. Now more girls are linked to
porn financing.
Russ president for Oslo and Akershus, Mie Skard, was shocked and
disappointed by the news that other russ girls were considering porn
appearances to raise funds.
Mie Skard, russ president for Oslo and Akershus county, said that
girls from seven other buses have reportedly agreed to take part in a
porn film in order to help pay for their mobile party bus.
The 26 girls from two Oslo schools had agreed to be extras in a porn
film that would feature scenes shot in their bus, and would also talk
on screen about their sex habits and fantasies.
Newspaper VG reported that two of the girls also agreed to take part
in sex scenes with porn star Thomas Rocco Hansen, but this claim had
not been confirmed.
Skard was relieved when the Oslo girls reconsidered but is now
exasperated to learn that Rocco Hansen was claiming he had contracts
with girls from seven other buses.
"All of the russ I have spoken with are shocked - luckily we have not
gone so far as to think this is OK," Skard said.
Skard admitted that the traditional competition to customize the best
russ vehicle had become an incredibly expensive habit, and that it was
now not unusual for these buses, equipped with enormous sound systems
and rebuilt interiors to cost each participant NOK 25,000 (USD 3,580).
"We can't stop someone from taking part in a porn film, but I hope
these other girls that Rocco talks about think this through one more
time," Skard said.
An article from April 21st 2004. In the end, it turned out that this
pornographic film maker Thomas "Rocco" Hansen did not get any senior
high school students to take part in his planned pornographic movie,
and probably never had any agreements with anyone in the first place,
Which was not surprising. Guess why the article above made the news
in Norway ? Because it was totally *unexpected* - totally out of the
normal.
But trust VG, which is a Norwegian tabloid rag that loves to put the
three letters "S-E-X" on their front page to come up with claims which
"had not been confirmed" and never were confirmed.
The same newspaper has even reported as a news item the old urban
legend about a US Carrier Task force vs a Newfoundland lighthouse,
both demanding that the other "ship" turn aside. Guess their motto
is "don't waste money on research when predjudices sell good enough".
Grin,
Stein
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
15 Nov 2004 03:13:17 PM |
|
|
On 15 Nov 2004 12:02:25 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Kermit)
pontificated:
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<eb2fp0pa539mhfie021to61gsb39oh117k@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:42:07 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric L. Rice)
pontificated:
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Ellen Goodman - Washington Post Writers Group
11.10.04 - BOSTON -- Here it is just days after the red states gave their
presidential seal of approval to the man from Texas and we've already been
treated to another skirmish in the culture wars. The Texas Board of
Education
has now given its educational seal of approval to what may soon be dubbed
Red
Sex Ed.
The big news is the state's successful demand that textbook publishers
change
the description of marriage between "two people" to marriage between "a man
and
a woman." They also ordered that marriage be defined as "a lifelong union
between a husband and a wife."
Frankly, I found the "lifelong" description charming considering that the
Lone
Star State has one of the highest divorce rates in the country.
Massachusetts,
by the way, has the lowest divorce rate in the country. We are so fond of
marriage that we want everyone to do it.
But never mind all that. The real heart of the textbook controversy is
whether
Texas students should learn about contraception. And the answer is no.
Texas has now officially gone to abstinence-only textbooks. The students
are
learning the ABCs of sex ed without the C. And as Texas, the second-largest
book
buyer in the country, goes, so may go the nation.
Only one of the four approved books even mentions contraceptives. The
altered
lessons teach students how to avoid sexually transmitted diseases in many
ways
-- including "getting plenty of rest" -- but not by using condoms. One
actually
suggests using latex gloves to avoid contact with blood but says nothing
about
using latex... you get the idea.
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many.
I'm sure those dying of AIDS will be glad to know that
you consider their problem only as serious as a cold.
And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But does not prevent it and does nothing for
Hepatitis-C.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
16 Nov 2004 12:41:26 PM |
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|
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:13:17 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On 15 Nov 2004 12:02:25 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Kermit)
pontificated:
snip
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many.
I'm sure those dying of AIDS will be glad to know that
you consider their problem only as serious as a cold.
You just can't help lying can you?
And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But does not prevent it
Of course it prevents it.
and does nothing for
Hepatitis-C.
In other words you were lying when you said condoms do not prevent the
spread of disease. Well, we all knew that.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
17 Nov 2004 10:47:35 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:41:26 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many.
I'm sure those dying of AIDS will be glad to know that
you consider their problem only as serious as a cold.
You just can't help lying can you?
I didn't lie. Your words are quoted above. No one who
took AIDS seriously, would use the idea of a cold for
comparison, nor would they consider one death
acceptable.
And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But does not prevent it
Of course it prevents it.
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
and does nothing for Hepatitis-C.
In other words you were lying when you said condoms do not prevent the
spread of disease. Well, we all knew that.
Notice that the liberal does not deal with the fact
just presented, but rather, tries to divert attention
away from it, with a personal attack.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
17 Nov 2004 02:38:38 PM |
|
|
In article <020np09s87ebjejbauuuf9fdamcvuf5l32@4ax.com> Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:41:26 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many.
I'm sure those dying of AIDS will be glad to know that
you consider their problem only as serious as a cold.
You just can't help lying can you?
I didn't lie. Your words are quoted above. No one who
took AIDS seriously, would use the idea of a cold for
comparison, nor would they consider one death
acceptable.
And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But does not prevent it
Of course it prevents it.
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
Would "agent of disinformation" make you rest easier?
I count three completely unsupportable claims, and two more
highly questionable implications, in the brief course of
three sentences in your paragraph on Hepatitis C.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
17 Nov 2004 11:22:26 AM |
|
|
In article <020np09s87ebjejbauuuf9fdamcvuf5l32@4ax.com> Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:41:26 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many.
I'm sure those dying of AIDS will be glad to know that
you consider their problem only as serious as a cold.
You just can't help lying can you?
I didn't lie. Your words are quoted above. No one who
took AIDS seriously, would use the idea of a cold for
comparison, nor would they consider one death
acceptable.
And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But does not prevent it
Of course it prevents it.
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
If a condom blocks the transmission of HIV in a given instance, then that
condom has prevented the spread of AIDS in that case.
Saying it does not "prevent" AIDS if it does not block transmission
in 100% of all possible cases is equivalent to saying that the
vaccines for smallpox, measles, rabies, and polio do not prevent
disease, because none is 100% effective.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
17 Nov 2004 12:29:59 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:22:26 +0000 (UTC), while scaling
the Mt. Everest, (Cary
Kittrell) pontificated:
In article <020np09s87ebjejbauuuf9fdamcvuf5l32@4ax.com> Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:41:26 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many.
I'm sure those dying of AIDS will be glad to know that
you consider their problem only as serious as a cold.
You just can't help lying can you?
I didn't lie. Your words are quoted above. No one who
took AIDS seriously, would use the idea of a cold for
comparison, nor would they consider one death
acceptable.
And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But does not prevent it
Of course it prevents it.
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
If a condom blocks the transmission of HIV in a given instance, then that
condom has prevented the spread of AIDS in that case.
I see, so there is no case in which AIDS gets
transmitted, when a condom was used?
Saying it does not "prevent" AIDS if it does not block transmission
in 100% of all possible cases is equivalent to saying that the
vaccines for smallpox, measles, rabies, and polio do not prevent
disease, because none is 100% effective.
I didn't use the word "all". I said it doesn't prevent
it and it doesn't.
The problem here, is that kids are taught that it does
and they go out and have more sex, feeling they're
perfectly safe and it gets spread more. But you can't
see the value of teaching them that there is still a
risk, even if it is a reduced risk?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
17 Nov 2004 12:47:54 PM |
|
|
In article <r16np0d8dmhhsi3cg6e49491hdl2u9o3o7@4ax.com> Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:22:26 +0000 (UTC), while scaling
the Mt. Everest, (Cary
Kittrell) pontificated:
In article <020np09s87ebjejbauuuf9fdamcvuf5l32@4ax.com> Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:41:26 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many.
I'm sure those dying of AIDS will be glad to know that
you consider their problem only as serious as a cold.
You just can't help lying can you?
I didn't lie. Your words are quoted above. No one who
took AIDS seriously, would use the idea of a cold for
comparison, nor would they consider one death
acceptable.
And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But does not prevent it
Of course it prevents it.
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
If a condom blocks the transmission of HIV in a given instance, then that
condom has prevented the spread of AIDS in that case.
I see, so there is no case in which AIDS gets
transmitted, when a condom was used?
When you find the person who claimed that, please ask him for me.
Saying it does not "prevent" AIDS if it does not block transmission
in 100% of all possible cases is equivalent to saying that the
vaccines for smallpox, measles, rabies, and polio do not prevent
disease, because none is 100% effective.
I didn't use the word "all". I said it doesn't prevent
it and it doesn't.
Ah. In that case, then abstinence does not prevent AIDS either.
The problem here, is that kids are taught that it does
and they go out and have more sex, feeling they're
perfectly safe and it gets spread more. But you can't
see the value of teaching them that there is still a
risk, even if it is a reduced risk?
Well, under that rubric, we ought to be honest with the
kids and be sure they understand that abstinence, while
reducing the risk of AIDS, certainly does not obviate it.
-- cary
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 07:43:16 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:47:54 +0000 (UTC), while scaling
the Mt. Everest, (Cary
Kittrell) pontificated:
I didn't use the word "all". I said it doesn't prevent
it and it doesn't.
Ah. In that case, then abstinence does not prevent AIDS either.
The problem here, is that kids are taught that it does
and they go out and have more sex, feeling they're
perfectly safe and it gets spread more. But you can't
see the value of teaching them that there is still a
risk, even if it is a reduced risk?
Well, under that rubric, we ought to be honest with the
kids and be sure they understand that abstinence, while
reducing the risk of AIDS, certainly does not obviate it.
You liked playing dodge ball when you were a kid,
didn't you?
We are talking about sexual transmission here.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 12:00:55 PM |
|
|
In article <bm9pp0dggttu9tgmkrr5q6c5c9i3sm3v4t@4ax.com> Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:47:54 +0000 (UTC), while scaling
the Mt. Everest, (Cary
Kittrell) pontificated:
I didn't use the word "all". I said it doesn't prevent
it and it doesn't.
Ah. In that case, then abstinence does not prevent AIDS either.
The problem here, is that kids are taught that it does
and they go out and have more sex, feeling they're
perfectly safe and it gets spread more. But you can't
see the value of teaching them that there is still a
risk, even if it is a reduced risk?
Well, under that rubric, we ought to be honest with the
kids and be sure they understand that abstinence, while
reducing the risk of AIDS, certainly does not obviate it.
You liked playing dodge ball when you were a kid,
didn't you?
We are talking about sexual transmission here.
No, we are talking about honestly giving out all the facts,
and not indulging in misleading phrases and deception
by omission.
-- cary
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 05:26:54 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:00:55 +0000 (UTC), while scaling
the Mt. Everest, (Cary
Kittrell) pontificated:
In article <bm9pp0dggttu9tgmkrr5q6c5c9i3sm3v4t@4ax.com> Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:47:54 +0000 (UTC), while scaling
the Mt. Everest, (Cary
Kittrell) pontificated:
I didn't use the word "all". I said it doesn't prevent
it and it doesn't.
Ah. In that case, then abstinence does not prevent AIDS either.
The problem here, is that kids are taught that it does
and they go out and have more sex, feeling they're
perfectly safe and it gets spread more. But you can't
see the value of teaching them that there is still a
risk, even if it is a reduced risk?
Well, under that rubric, we ought to be honest with the
kids and be sure they understand that abstinence, while
reducing the risk of AIDS, certainly does not obviate it.
You liked playing dodge ball when you were a kid,
didn't you?
We are talking about sexual transmission here.
No, we are talking about honestly giving out all the facts,
and not indulging in misleading phrases and deception
by omission.
Notice folks, now the accusations fly.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 06:09:57 PM |
|
|
In article <btbqp0dssc8o0ihqt8bm1scr415vtcss2u@4ax.com> Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:00:55 +0000 (UTC), while scaling
the Mt. Everest, (Cary
Kittrell) pontificated:
In article <bm9pp0dggttu9tgmkrr5q6c5c9i3sm3v4t@4ax.com> Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> writes:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:47:54 +0000 (UTC), while scaling
the Mt. Everest, (Cary
Kittrell) pontificated:
I didn't use the word "all". I said it doesn't prevent
it and it doesn't.
Ah. In that case, then abstinence does not prevent AIDS either.
The problem here, is that kids are taught that it does
and they go out and have more sex, feeling they're
perfectly safe and it gets spread more. But you can't
see the value of teaching them that there is still a
risk, even if it is a reduced risk?
Well, under that rubric, we ought to be honest with the
kids and be sure they understand that abstinence, while
reducing the risk of AIDS, certainly does not obviate it.
You liked playing dodge ball when you were a kid,
didn't you?
We are talking about sexual transmission here.
No, we are talking about honestly giving out all the facts,
and not indulging in misleading phrases and deception
by omission.
Notice folks, now the accusations fly.
And well earned they are too.
I'll lay you quite good odds that the average person, hearing the
statement "latex condoms do not prevent diseases" will take this to mean
that condoms are worthless, or nearly so, in protecting oneself against AIDS.
But you come across as being knowledgeable in this area, so I'll
ask you: what is a generally-accepted figure for the rate of
failure of condoms, when properly used, to prevent the
transmission?
(incidentally, while we're on this little fact-finding tour,
do your realize that it's generally accepted that the risk
of transmitting Hepatitis-C by sexual contact is low? and
that the CDC pegs the long-term mortality rate due to Hepatitis-C
at 1-5%?)
-- cary
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
17 Nov 2004 02:07:07 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:47:35 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:41:26 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many.
I'm sure those dying of AIDS will be glad to know that
you consider their problem only as serious as a cold.
You just can't help lying can you?
I didn't lie. Your words are quoted above. No one who
took AIDS seriously, would use the idea of a cold for
comparison, nor would they consider one death
acceptable.
Nor was anything like that said. Either you are lying when you claim
it was, or you are insane.
And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But does not prevent it
Of course it prevents it.
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
Yes, I do, and yes condoms do prevent AIDS. It is a well-known fact
confirmed by the health department of your own country and the WHO.
The information is readily available. There are actually married
couples who have sex regularly, even though one of them has AIDS.
They use condoms to make it possible. Condoms are very effective.
and does nothing for Hepatitis-C.
In other words you were lying when you said condoms do not prevent the
spread of disease. Well, we all knew that.
Notice that the liberal does not deal with the fact
just presented, but rather, tries to divert attention
away from it, with a personal attack.
No, you conceded that condoms reduce the spread of AIDS. Before that
you claimed that it was a liberal lie that condoms prevent disease.
You were the one who was lying.
Nobody claims that condoms are 100% effective against any disease or
that they prevent all possible diseases. It is a fact that they are
extremely effective against AIDS and a number of other venereal
diseases. They are also extremely effective in preventing
pregnancies.
Concerning the issue of teenagers and sex, no matter how much good
advice they receive, some of them are going to experiment with sex.
You, by irrationally discouraging the use of a very effective and
inexpensive protection, are exposing them to very serious danger. You
ignored the fact that I agreed with you that it would be better if
they refrained until they were more mature, but I hardly think they
deserve to die of AIDS because they didn't wait. Do you?
.
|
|
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| User: "maf 1029" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 04:34:51 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:07:07 +0100, thomas p
<thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
Yo, TP, how goes?
If it isn't patentl;y obvious by now, it should be getting clearer
that here in Bushistan, we don't have sex education, thanks to the
neo-cons, Religious Reich, and the self-appointed Morality KKKops.
"Just say no" is an abject failure, as evidenced by the musings on
this thread alone, not to mention our escalating teen pregnancy and
STD rates.
Americans on the whole are so genophobic that the mere mention of the
s-e-x letter string sends them into a tizzy.
"Morality!" they cry.
"I don't want my precious, illiterate, uneducated children exposed to
such filth!" they shriek.
All the while, Junior is out with Missy, admiring how nice she looks
with her skirt hiked up above her head in the back seat of a car, no
condoms and no thought of "just saying no" in the vicinity.
<end rant>
Sorry about that. It's one of my pet peeves this week.
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:47:35 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:41:26 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent
diseases. They don't. They are not 100% effective and
they do not protect against Hepatitis-C, which is more
common that AIDS (of course, the pro-abortion, pro-kid
sex liberal organizations don't tell you that) and can
be asymptomatic for up to 15 years, while you spread it
and kill people and then when it does show itself, you
die also. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method
against sexually transmitted diseases. But we know you
prefer that the schools lie to children.
Noone ever claimed that washing hands prevents all colds, either, but
the fact is that it prevents many.
I'm sure those dying of AIDS will be glad to know that
you consider their problem only as serious as a cold.
You just can't help lying can you?
I didn't lie. Your words are quoted above. No one who
took AIDS seriously, would use the idea of a cold for
comparison, nor would they consider one death
acceptable.
Nor was anything like that said. Either you are lying when you claim
it was, or you are insane.
And using condoms reduces the
spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.
But does not prevent it
Of course it prevents it.
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
Yes, I do, and yes condoms do prevent AIDS. It is a well-known fact
confirmed by the health department of your own country and the WHO.
The information is readily available. There are actually married
couples who have sex regularly, even though one of them has AIDS.
They use condoms to make it possible. Condoms are very effective.
and does nothing for Hepatitis-C.
In other words you were lying when you said condoms do not prevent the
spread of disease. Well, we all knew that.
Notice that the liberal does not deal with the fact
just presented, but rather, tries to divert attention
away from it, with a personal attack.
No, you conceded that condoms reduce the spread of AIDS. Before that
you claimed that it was a liberal lie that condoms prevent disease.
You were the one who was lying.
Nobody claims that condoms are 100% effective against any disease or
that they prevent all possible diseases. It is a fact that they are
extremely effective against AIDS and a number of other venereal
diseases. They are also extremely effective in preventing
pregnancies.
Concerning the issue of teenagers and sex, no matter how much good
advice they receive, some of them are going to experiment with sex.
You, by irrationally discouraging the use of a very effective and
inexpensive protection, are exposing them to very serious danger. You
ignored the fact that I agreed with you that it would be better if
they refrained until they were more mature, but I hardly think they
deserve to die of AIDS because they didn't wait. Do you?
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 07:44:24 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:07:07 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
Yes, I do, and yes condoms do prevent AIDS. It is a well-known fact
confirmed by the health department of your own country and the WHO.
Is that why there have been cases of HIV infection,
with the use of a condom?
And what about Hepatitis-C?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
| User: "thomas p" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 05:11:17 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:44:24 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:07:07 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
Yes, I do, and yes condoms do prevent AIDS. It is a well-known fact
confirmed by the health department of your own country and the WHO.
Is that why there have been cases of HIV infection,
with the use of a condom?
Gosh there has? I guess condoms are compeletely useless. Why they
are just as bad as smallpox vaccines. Did you know that there have
been cases of people getting smallpox even though they were
vaccinated? Why it's a wonder those terrible vaccines were allowed.
Things like that need to be stopped.
And what about Hepatitis-C?
What about crawling back under your rock?
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 06:30:53 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:11:17 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:44:24 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:07:07 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
Yes, I do, and yes condoms do prevent AIDS. It is a well-known fact
confirmed by the health department of your own country and the WHO.
Is that why there have been cases of HIV infection,
with the use of a condom?
Gosh there has? I guess condoms are compeletely useless.
This is where they put words in my mouth, folks.
Remember, he claimed that condoms PREVENT HIV
transmission through sexual means.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
| User: "thomas p" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
19 Nov 2004 08:07:25 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:30:53 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:11:17 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:44:24 GMT, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:07:07 +0100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk>
pontificated:
And he calls ME a liar, folks?
Yes, I do, and yes condoms do prevent AIDS. It is a well-known fact
confirmed by the health department of your own country and the WHO.
Is that why there have been cases of HIV infection,
with the use of a condom?
Gosh there has? I guess condoms are compeletely useless.
This is where they put words in my mouth, folks.
Does that mean you don't think condoms are useless? Then why not stop
lying about it?
Remember, he claimed that condoms PREVENT HIV
transmission through sexual means.
And remember, they do prevent the transmission of the infection during
sex. How many times are you going to lie about it? Oh, excuse me for
asking such a silly question; you never stop lying. The only good
thing about your behavior is that it is so transparent and your lies
are so incredibly stupid that few will be fooled by it. Unfortunately
a number of them are very likely to contract the disease and die. How
a person becomes as twisted as you is beyond me. I am finished with
you for now; I need to get away from the stench.
.
|
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| User: "The Sophist" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 04:19:05 PM |
|
|
Pastor Dave wrote:
Is that why there have been cases of HIV infection,
with the use of a condom?
I'm curious as to how it was proven that the HIV was transmitted by a
particular sexual encounter. I'm not saying it's definite this has
never happened, but I'm curious what your evidence is.
As to the effectiveness of condoms, here's one interesting fact.
Prostitutes who are not also members of other risk groups (not IV drug
users or anything) have a lower rate of infection than the general
public. The only plausible theory I've encountered for that is that
it's because prostitutes are a lot more obsessive about condom use than
the general public. If so, then it appears condoms must work really
well at preventing HIV transmission, considering how many sexual
partners a typical prostitute has.
And what about Hepatitis-C?
How this is transmitted is poorly understood, but most experts think
transmission through sexual contact is not frequent, and that condoms
will further reduce the danger. I know you don't like to let facts get
in the way of your moralizing, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.
--
Aaron Boyden
The main division between the so-called Continental and Analytic
traditions has been disputes over whether the task of being unclear
should be carried out in natural language or in a formal system.
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 05:32:05 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:19:05 -0500, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, The Sophist <sophist@brown.edu>
pontificated:
Pastor Dave wrote:
Is that why there have been cases of HIV infection,
with the use of a condom?
I'm curious as to how it was proven that the HIV was transmitted by a
particular sexual encounter. I'm not saying it's definite this has
never happened, but I'm curious what your evidence is.
I'm not going to argue this point. The data is easily
accessible in 30 seconds on Google.
As to the effectiveness of condoms, here's one interesting fact.
Prostitutes who are not also members of other risk groups (not IV drug
users or anything) have a lower rate of infection than the general
public.
Lower, not zero, which demonstrates that condoms do not
prevent HIV transmission. They just lower the risk.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Sophist" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
18 Nov 2004 09:43:33 PM |
|
|
Pastor Dave wrote:
As to the effectiveness of condoms, here's one interesting fact.
Prostitutes who are not also members of other risk groups (not IV drug
users or anything) have a lower rate of infection than the general
public.
Lower, not zero, which demonstrates that condoms do not
prevent HIV transmission. They just lower the risk.
Well, that hardly follows. While prostitutes are generally more
obsessive about safe sex than those who don't have sex professionally,
this is not to say that none of them ever have lapses. Those few who
contract HIV may, as you suspect, be victims of rare failures of
condoms, but they may also be victims of not using condoms quite all the
time. Since there are definitely cases of the latter, it's pretty hard
to prove that there are any cases of the former; the latter may explain
all the infections.
In any event, even if they're not perfect, condoms work pretty well.
And while abstinence may be even better (or it may not be; you've failed
to provide any evidence of actual condom failures), the basic problem is
that telling people to be abstinent is not the same as people being
abstinent, and the evidence is overwhelming that telling people to be
abstinent works extremely badly. Telling people to use condoms has a
considerably better record.
--
Aaron Boyden
The main division between the so-called Continental and Analytic
traditions has been disputes over whether the task of being unclear
should be carried out in natural language or in a formal system.
.
|
|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
19 Nov 2004 08:08:36 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:43:33 -0500, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, The Sophist <sophist@brown.edu>
pontificated:
In any event, even if they're not perfect, condoms work pretty well.
They reduce the risk of certain sexually transmitted
diseases and don't do a thing against the transmission
of others, such as Hepatitis-C, which is a more common
disease than AIDS and can be asymptomatic for up to 15
years, while it is spread by people who have been lied
to, when they were told that condoms prevent sexually
transmitted diseases.
And while abstinence may be even better (or it may not be;
Abstinence is 100% effective against sexually
transmitted diseases and now you're claiming that it
"MAY be even better"? And you people telling me I'm
arguing foolishly and that I'm lying? Please!
you've failed to provide any evidence of actual condom failures)
Please. We both know that there are condom failures
and to even try to imply that it is possible that there
aren't, is to be extremely dishonest.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
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"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
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| User: "The Sophist" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
19 Nov 2004 01:53:05 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:43:33 -0500, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, The Sophist <sophist@brown.edu>
pontificated:
In any event, even if they're not perfect, condoms work pretty well.
They reduce the risk of certain sexually transmitted
diseases and don't do a thing against the transmission
of others, such as Hepatitis-C, which is a more common
disease than AIDS and can be asymptomatic for up to 15
years, while it is spread by people who have been lied
to, when they were told that condoms prevent sexually
transmitted diseases.
Why do you keep repeating this, when you've been repeatedly reminded
that hepatitis-C is believed by most experts to be very difficult to
transmit sexually?
And while abstinence may be even better (or it may not be;
Abstinence is 100% effective against sexually
transmitted diseases and now you're claiming that it
"MAY be even better"? And you people telling me I'm
arguing foolishly and that I'm lying? Please!
Abstinence is not anywhere near 100% effective against transmission of
Hepatitis-C, which is the example you keep bringing up; most experts
think it's mostly transmitted by non-sexual means. People have also
gotten AIDS without having sex, of course. Indeed, I don't know of an
STD which can't be transmitted in other ways.
you've failed to provide any evidence of actual condom failures)
Please. We both know that there are condom failures
and to even try to imply that it is possible that there
aren't, is to be extremely dishonest.
Well, people also get struck by lightning. The vast majority of condom
failures involved in the statistics about condom reliability involve
people's failure to use condoms every time, though, not actual failure
of the condoms to do their job. Failures due to other than user error
are sufficiently rare that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to worry
about them.
--
Aaron Boyden
The main division between the so-called Continental and Analytic
traditions has been disputes over whether the task of being unclear
should be carried out in natural language or in a formal system.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
14 Nov 2004 02:02:24 PM |
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Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:42:07 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric L. Rice)
pontificated:
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Ellen Goodman - Washington Post Writers Group
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent diseases.
<smile> You don't subscribe to Germ Theory either, looks like.
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| User: "The Last Liberal" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
14 Nov 2004 08:51:24 PM |
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:02:24 GMT, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE
(Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:42:07 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric L. Rice)
pontificated:
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Ellen Goodman - Washington Post Writers Group
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent diseases.
"Liberal lie?" Isn't that what George Widowmaker Bush does?
<smile> You don't subscribe to Germ Theory either, looks like.
I'm unaware of anyone who claims condoms prevent diseases: certainly
the proponents of birth control have never made such a claim. Psycho
Dave seems to be confused.
--
"Terrorism" isn't the enemy: George W Bush is!
http://lastliberal.org
Voting Republican makes baby Jesus cry!
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
15 Nov 2004 04:54:00 AM |
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:51:24 GMT, (The Last
Liberal) wrote:
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:02:24 GMT, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE
(Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:42:07 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric L. Rice)
pontificated:
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Ellen Goodman - Washington Post Writers Group
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent diseases.
"Liberal lie?" Isn't that what George Widowmaker Bush does?
<smile> You don't subscribe to Germ Theory either, looks like.
I'm unaware of anyone who claims condoms prevent diseases: certainly
the proponents of birth control have never made such a claim. Psycho
Dave seems to be confused.
There was lie sheet published by and widely circulated by the
religious loonies which talked about the latex having tiny hold of
X-microns and size of viruses, that it only stopped spematozoa not the
exchange of bodily fluids. As far as I can remember it was pretty
soundly debunked.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Red Sex Education |
15 Nov 2004 09:20:46 AM |
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:51:24 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (The Last Liberal)
pontificated:
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:02:24 GMT, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE
(Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:42:07 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, occr42@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric L. Rice)
pontificated:
Red sex ed
Home of nation's highest teen birthrate goes abstinence-only
Ellen Goodman - Washington Post Writers Group
It is the liberal lie that latex condoms prevent diseases.
"Liberal lie?" Isn't that what George Widowmaker Bush does?
<smile> You don't subscribe to Germ Theory either, looks like.
I'm unaware of anyone who claims condoms prevent diseases: certainly
the proponents of birth control have never made such a claim. Psycho
Dave seems to be confused.
Just one example...
"Condoms offer effective protection against most
serious sexually transmitted infections by preventing
the exchange of body fluids (Cates & Stone, 1992; CDC,
1998; Stone et al., 1999)."
Found at:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/condoms/truth.html
BTW, Hepatitis-C is not even mentioned on that page.
As I said, they don't tell you about that, since it
would mean that kids are at risk of infecting many
people and killing them and themselves and that would
not promote the liberal "pro-abortion", "pro-kid sex"
agenda of these organizations and people.
Even latex condoms are 100% effective and they do not
protect against Hepatitis-C (HCV), which is more common
than AIDS and can be asymptomatic for up to 15 years,
while you spread it and kill people and then when it
does show itself, you die also. Abstinence is the only
100% effective method against sexually transmitted
diseases. But we know you prefer that the schools lie
to children. While these organizations rail on
teaching abstinence and claim it is wrong, all they
promote is death, by teaching children that they are
safe, while a major disease (and Hepatitis-C is
considered to be at an epidemic level and is called,
"the silent epidemic") kills them. So tell me, how are
they on the side of children? If you told them that no
condom can protect against Hepatitis-C and that it will
kill them and that it is more common than AIDS, they
would be more likely to abstain. So what possible
reason could there be for not telling them about it?
We know the reason. In fact, you cannot even share a
toothbrush, or any item with even trace amounts of
blood on it and must be very careful with open sores
and the like.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
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"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
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