Katt wrote:

"D-word" <yank_ees_suck@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6NCdnSyldOP66DXfRVn-vw@

The downside of Darwin's theories here is that while being a Witness is
clearly not a useful adaptation, that alone is n't enough to kill them. We
still need fortuitous circumstance, and not even their own stupidity can
prevent them from spreading their mind-crap to others.

Ummmm, you are being too pessimistic, mon brave.

Re-read the story.

This one *died at 16*: he *didn't reproduce*.

In Darwinist terms, that's called a *RESULT*....!

Katt.

Darwin's theory suggests that adaptations are the result of genetic
mutation.

modality playing out, one where nurture alone can lead to useful on
not-so-useful behavior, independent of genetics. Belief-based,
behavioral Darwinism.

Darwin's theory suggests that adaptations are the result of genetic
mutation. However, what I find interesting here is there is another
modality playing out, one where nurture alone can lead to useful on
not-so-useful behavior, independent of genetics. Belief-based,
behavioral Darwinism.

yeah. frankly i don't get it. they receive daily transfusion of blood in
church (which is not licensed to practise medicine), and refuse it in
hospital (which is licensed).


Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:

Don't they do so in their churches -- in the form
of rotting juice of grapes?

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

In article <TnYpe.7617$oK.4567@okepread02>,
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:

don't kirastanis drink blood of christ every day?


Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:

Does religous belief transcend life?

By Jin Hyun-joo
The Korea Herald
Wednesday, June 8, 2005

A 16-year-old male student, identified only by his family
name Yoon, died of leukemia in April while refusing a
blood transfusion that possibly could have saved his
life.

It's not the first case of its kind nor the last because
Yoon was a member of the Jehovah's Witness faith which
follows strict beliefs that blood should not be misused
or tampered with under any circumstances.

The incident has raised the question in some circles
whether parents have the right to deny their children
blood transfusions that go against their religious
beliefs even when life is at stake. In Korea, children do
not come of age until they reach 20, and parents have
full control until then.

But legal discussions on the issue have been almost
nonexistent since doctors usually go along with the
decision of parents who reject transfusion for a child.

A group of Jehovah's Witnesses hold a service in western
Seoul. [The Korea Herald]

Under existing law, parents who do not provide medical
treatment for their children face up to five years in
prison and 15 million won in fines. However, lawyers and
Jehovah's Witnesses debate whether the law is applicable
since other methods of medical treatment besides blood
transfusions are used.

"I repeatedly suggested transfusions to Yoon and his
parents, but they didn't accept it," his physician, Kim
Jun-hui, at the Inje University Paik Hospital, central
Seoul, said. "I feel sorry because there is a high
possibility that leukemia, when found at an early stage,
can be completely cured with transfusions."

Yoon's leukemia was believed cured in 2003, but it
reoccurred when he was studying in Canada in February.

In many other countries doctors push for treatment which
they think is necessary and the issue has landed before
the courts. For example, a Canadian court last month
ruled doctors could force a 14-year-old Jehovah's Witness
to undergo transfusion despite her protests if they
deemed it medically necessary.

There has been only one related ruling in a Korean court.
In 1980 the mother of a 10-year-old girl was imprisoned
for rejecting blood transfusions for her daughter, who
died from intestinal hemorrhaging.

"Even though she is a mother, she does not have rights to
refuse transfusion which a doctor suggested and to lead
her (daughter) to die without getting necessary medical
treatment," the written judgment said.

There are some 90,000 Jehovah's Witness members in Korea
and hospitals estimate there are about 100 cases of
treatment at bloodless medical treatment facilities per
month.

Lawyer Kang Ji-won said the courts should cut across the
parental rights of Jehovah's Witness members in urgent
cases since children can be misled by their parents.

"At their age, their religious belief is easily hammered
(into them) by their parents. It may not be their real
intention," said Kang, a well-known juvenile advocate.

But believers say it is hard to find the third person who
can take responsibility of the child.

"Who's going to take accountability if the child is dead
even after undergoing a transfusion? A doctor? A judge?"
Choi Yong-muk, a Jehovah's Witness who deals with the
faith's medical affairs here, asked rhetorically.

"It is easy to say that a third party should represent
the endangered child, but there is no alternative," said
Choi, president of a high-profile English home schooling
company.

Adherents also say they have obligations to protect their
children not only physically but also spiritually.

"Parents should lead their children in a good direction
when they have little ability to make a decision," said
Im Jong-in, a lawyer who is a believer.

"Let's suppose our child goes through a transfusion. What
if the child grows up and deeply regrets the experience
which contradicts with his belief?"

But many people outside the faith feel the right to live
transcends religious belief.

"In the United States, even religious freedom of minors
is restricted when their life is endangered," said Kim
Chong-suh, a professor of religious studies at Seoul
National University.

Kim Jong-seo, a 25-year-old university student, said,
"(Jehovah's) Witnesses say human rights and their
conscience are precious and thus reject obeying the
draft, but I can't understand why they neglect the right
to live."

Jehovah's Witnesses refuse this nation's mandatory
military service, citing their religious precept that
forbids taking up weapons. Instead, they choose to stay
in jail for more than one year and face disadvantages in
seeking jobs.

Members say not accepting blood transfusions does not
always mean a child is going to die, noting there are
alternatives to transfusions. There is bloodless medical
treatment which takes aggressive steps to stop bleeding
and uses liquid solutions to replace lost blood.

Choi cited medical journals which demonstrate bloodless
treatments are effective. "People think we're fanatic
because we refuse transfusion. Some even think we lead
our children to die a martyr's death. But in the eyes of
progressive doctors, transfusion is a crazy thing."

About 20 hospitals nationwide have bloodless medical
treatment facilities, with patients who are mainly
Jehovah's Witnesses.

The facilities are increasingly popular with the non-
Witness public which wishes to avoid the use of donor
blood to minimize the risk of blood-borne infections,
hospital officials said.

Choi said he obtained signatures from more than 5,000
doctors from general hospitals saying they can perform
surgery without blood transfusions.

Kim Mun-seol, chief doctor at the bloodless surgery
center at Baik Hospital, said, "I will not let my child
have a transfusion. It is no good having another person's
blood." Kim is not a Jehovah's Witness.

But many medical experts say bloodless medical treatment
cannot fully take the place of a transfusion.

"Bloodless transfusion works in some cases, but people
need to undergo surgery with blood transfusion when
they're bleeding to death and in other cases," said
anatomical pathologist Nam Hae-joo, a Catholic. "They
just say it to rationalize their religious precept."

Nam said, however, that what a doctor can do is very
limited and a broad discussion on the pros and cons is
needed.

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2005/06/09/200506090037.asp

- - - - - - -

Posted on 6/08/2005 10:19:11 PM PDT by Crackingham

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

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The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so

send

peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and

the

daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her

mother in

law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.

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