| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill Mechlenburg" |
| Date: |
07 May 2004 07:11:01 PM |
| Object: |
Christian religion |
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
God is claimed to be all powerful and creator of the heavens and the earth
and every thing in it.
Why did God use dozens of errant men to write the Bible hundreds of years
after the death of Jesus?
God is claimed to be all good. Why does he let man suffer from thousands of
painful and debilitating illnesses? Some have said this is punishment for
mans sins. If this true, why does the Pope and Rev. Billy Graham suffer from
painful and debilitating disease? Why are children born with serious and
painful disfigurements and birth defects before they have ever had a chance
to sin?
Why did not God himself tell the whole world directly about his
expectations of man and why did he not do this when man first appeared on
earth instead of waiting 100,000 years? Why did God not tell his story to
the whole world instead of just a small population in the Middle East?
There is no objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of any God.
There is NO objective evidence that "Jesus" was Gods son. In fact there is
NO objective evidence that God exists much less that he has a son.
Why would Jesus have to descend to earth and be cruelly killed on a cross to
atone for man's sins? Why couldn't God just forgive these sins without this
grotesque arrangement of Jesus suffering on a cross?
Why would God wait almost 100,000 years after man was on earth to send his
son down to save man? God supposedly created the universe and man. Why did
God create man to be sinful and now have to save him? And save him from what
God himself created!
If there is a God he must be a cruel brutal barbarian.
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is the
correct one?
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 12:56:28 PM |
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Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
For those of us who have studied the book, the history and historicity
of the book, its preservation, transmissal, and translation, the
evidence is solidly there.
If you wish, you may claim there is no proof or objective evidence the
earth is not flat. And if your approach to that claim is the same as
your approach to this one, you will be just as inaccurate in your
knowledge of truth in that respect too.
God is claimed to be all powerful and creator of the heavens and the earth
and every thing in it.
Why did God use dozens of errant men to write the Bible hundreds of years
after the death of Jesus?
First off, the largest part of the Bible was written BEFORE Jesus was
born of Mary, before He walked the earth, and before He was crucified.
Secondly, we have copies now of New Testament documents that date back
to the year 59 A.D., less than 30 years after the crucifiction.
Perhaps it would be good if you actually EXAMINED THE EVIDENCE and DID
YOUR HOMEWORK before you made such sweeping and ignorance-based
statements that make you look silly?
<snipped the rest of your post>
So what religion are you? And how old are you? Your post makes you
sound like you might be in your young teens, and if you are, these are
indeed things you should be examining for yourself. The issues are
important issues. They will effect your whole life.
In Christ Jesus,
Christian
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 02:41:33 PM |
|
|
Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, a stranger
called by some came forth and told this tale
in alt.atheism
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Actually, I have examined the evidence.
For those of us who have studied the book, the history and historicity
of the book, its preservation, transmissal, and translation, the
evidence is solidly there.
Then you took different religion classes than I did. My class (taught
by a Jesuit of all things) made it clear that there is almost no
evidence to support the claims made in the NT, and only some of the
historical claims in the OT.
If you wish, you may claim there is no proof or objective evidence the
earth is not flat. And if your approach to that claim is the same as
your approach to this one, you will be just as inaccurate in your
knowledge of truth in that respect too.
Actually, I can prove the Earth is in fact a sphere. If you wish to
claim otherwise, show me the evidence.
First off, the largest part of the Bible was written BEFORE Jesus was
born of Mary, before He walked the earth, and before He was crucified.
Yup. And much of it is poor history, and a god who glorfied in
slaughter and animal sacrifices.
Secondly, we have copies now of New Testament documents that date back
to the year 59 A.D., less than 30 years after the crucifiction.
Ah. So would you trust an account of Watergate, say, written this
year with no checkable sources from the actual period?
None of the Gospels were written in Judea, non by the actual people
involved. They are at *best* second or third hand accounts. Shall we
discuss the other gospels? The ones the early church cut?
Perhaps it would be good if you actually EXAMINED THE EVIDENCE and DID
YOUR HOMEWORK before you made such sweeping and ignorance-based
statements that make you look silly?
I was raised a Catholic, and have studied comparitive religions as a
hobby for years. I own several Bibles, a translation of the Koran,
the Book of Mormon, and other holy texts plus commentaries.
So what religion are you? And how old are you? Your post makes you
sound like you might be in your young teens, and if you are, these are
indeed things you should be examining for yourself. The issues are
important issues. They will effect your whole life.
I'm an atheist, 37 years old.
You should accept that Odin and the rest of the Aesir under the same
argument.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian religion |
09 May 2004 09:23:49 AM |
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|
Hello Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, a stranger
called by some came forth and told this tale
in alt.atheism
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Actually, I have examined the evidence.
For those of us who have studied the book, the history and historicity
of the book, its preservation, transmissal, and translation, the
evidence is solidly there.
Then you took different religion classes than I did. My class (taught
by a Jesuit of all things) made it clear that there is almost no
evidence to support the claims made in the NT, and only some of the
historical claims in the OT.
Having a Jesuit lead you in the study of the Bible is just about as
good as having a mormon do so. It is likely that neither has ever
studied the Bible in depth.
If you wish, you may claim there is no proof or objective evidence the
earth is not flat. And if your approach to that claim is the same as
your approach to this one, you will be just as inaccurate in your
knowledge of truth in that respect too.
Actually, I can prove the Earth is in fact a sphere. If you wish to
claim otherwise, show me the evidence.
I can too, but my point is that if you refuse to look at the evidence
and you pretend it doesn't exist, you are free to believe anything you
wish. Truth is not required.
First off, the largest part of the Bible was written BEFORE Jesus was
born of Mary, before He walked the earth, and before He was crucified.
Yup. And much of it is poor history, and a god who glorfied in
slaughter and animal sacrifices.
Actually the history has proven itself quite well, and God was NEVER
glorified in slaughter or animal sacrifices. He ordered both, but
they were not to "glorify" Him.
Secondly, we have copies now of New Testament documents that date back
to the year 59 A.D., less than 30 years after the crucifiction.
Ah. So would you trust an account of Watergate, say, written this
year with no checkable sources from the actual period?
Since the Bible is not a document penned by one single person, but a
document penned by some 39 DIFFERENT persons, I would consider that a
good "witness."
None of the Gospels were written in Judea, non by the actual people
involved. They are at *best* second or third hand accounts. Shall we
discuss the other gospels? The ones the early church cut?
Where do you get this misinformation? And just where do you think the
synoptic Gospels came from?
Perhaps it would be good if you actually EXAMINED THE EVIDENCE and DID
YOUR HOMEWORK before you made such sweeping and ignorance-based
statements that make you look silly?
I was raised a Catholic, and have studied comparitive religions as a
hobby for years. I own several Bibles, a translation of the Koran,
the Book of Mormon, and other holy texts plus commentaries.
Great! I too was a member of the rcc for years, have studied
comparative religion for over 43 years. I have about 40 translations
of the Bible in my home (including Hawaiian and the concordant New
Testament. . .ever heard of either of those?), have read the qur'an
and have one, a Book of mormon and a photocopy of the first printing
of the BofM, and other texts as well. I would not call those other
books, "holy" anything though. Commentaries? One wall, floor to
ceiling, 21 feet long, shelves full. Multiple commentaries on every
book of the Bible, by reputable authors. Another room with shelves of
Biblical Greek references, etc.
So now we have "strutted around like a couple of peacocks," so aren't
we impressed? :-)
So what religion are you? And how old are you? Your post makes you
sound like you might be in your young teens, and if you are, these are
indeed things you should be examining for yourself. The issues are
important issues. They will effect your whole life.
I'm an atheist,
I'm sorry. Are you a TRUE atheist, or just an agnostic?
37 years old.
Just a kid! :-)
You should accept that Odin and the rest of the Aesir under the same
argument.
Naah. You cannot show that they ever actually lived here on the
earth.
in Christ Jesus,
Christian
.
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| User: "Bill Mechlenburg" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian religion |
14 May 2004 02:32:42 PM |
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WHY DON'T YOU STOP SILLY BADGERING OF POSTERS AND INSTEAD SUBMIT ALL THIS
EVIDENCE YOU KEEP CLAIMING TO HAVE.
<> wrote in message
news:01fs901iic5pvusaits7l088s0ck5j2lbr@4ax.com...
Hello Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, a stranger
called by some came forth and told this tale
in alt.atheism
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of
ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Actually, I have examined the evidence.
For those of us who have studied the book, the history and historicity
of the book, its preservation, transmissal, and translation, the
evidence is solidly there.
Then you took different religion classes than I did. My class (taught
by a Jesuit of all things) made it clear that there is almost no
evidence to support the claims made in the NT, and only some of the
historical claims in the OT.
Having a Jesuit lead you in the study of the Bible is just about as
good as having a mormon do so. It is likely that neither has ever
studied the Bible in depth.
If you wish, you may claim there is no proof or objective evidence the
earth is not flat. And if your approach to that claim is the same as
your approach to this one, you will be just as inaccurate in your
knowledge of truth in that respect too.
Actually, I can prove the Earth is in fact a sphere. If you wish to
claim otherwise, show me the evidence.
I can too, but my point is that if you refuse to look at the evidence
and you pretend it doesn't exist, you are free to believe anything you
wish. Truth is not required.
First off, the largest part of the Bible was written BEFORE Jesus was
born of Mary, before He walked the earth, and before He was crucified.
Yup. And much of it is poor history, and a god who glorfied in
slaughter and animal sacrifices.
Actually the history has proven itself quite well, and God was NEVER
glorified in slaughter or animal sacrifices. He ordered both, but
they were not to "glorify" Him.
Secondly, we have copies now of New Testament documents that date back
to the year 59 A.D., less than 30 years after the crucifiction.
Ah. So would you trust an account of Watergate, say, written this
year with no checkable sources from the actual period?
Since the Bible is not a document penned by one single person, but a
document penned by some 39 DIFFERENT persons, I would consider that a
good "witness."
None of the Gospels were written in Judea, non by the actual people
involved. They are at *best* second or third hand accounts. Shall we
discuss the other gospels? The ones the early church cut?
Where do you get this misinformation? And just where do you think the
synoptic Gospels came from?
Perhaps it would be good if you actually EXAMINED THE EVIDENCE and DID
YOUR HOMEWORK before you made such sweeping and ignorance-based
statements that make you look silly?
I was raised a Catholic, and have studied comparitive religions as a
hobby for years. I own several Bibles, a translation of the Koran,
the Book of Mormon, and other holy texts plus commentaries.
Great! I too was a member of the rcc for years, have studied
comparative religion for over 43 years. I have about 40 translations
of the Bible in my home (including Hawaiian and the concordant New
Testament. . .ever heard of either of those?), have read the qur'an
and have one, a Book of mormon and a photocopy of the first printing
of the BofM, and other texts as well. I would not call those other
books, "holy" anything though. Commentaries? One wall, floor to
ceiling, 21 feet long, shelves full. Multiple commentaries on every
book of the Bible, by reputable authors. Another room with shelves of
Biblical Greek references, etc.
So now we have "strutted around like a couple of peacocks," so aren't
we impressed? :-)
So what religion are you? And how old are you? Your post makes you
sound like you might be in your young teens, and if you are, these are
indeed things you should be examining for yourself. The issues are
important issues. They will effect your whole life.
I'm an atheist,
I'm sorry. Are you a TRUE atheist, or just an agnostic?
37 years old.
Just a kid! :-)
You should accept that Odin and the rest of the Aesir under the same
argument.
Naah. You cannot show that they ever actually lived here on the
earth.
in Christ Jesus,
Christian
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 01:40:05 PM |
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On Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, wrote:
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Yet another Christian Liar For God - THERE HAS BEEN NO FUCKING
EVIDENCE. You make it very personal when you lie about "those who
won't examine the evidence". These personal attacks are sheer
nastiness on your part.
And it's not up to us to look for anything as irrelevant as support
for somebody else's religious beliefs.
Either give this alleged evidence, or stop lying.
[snip]
Why are so many Christians so thoughtlessly rude they finish
conversations with atheists, with things like:
In Christ Jesus,
His mouth or his *****?
Christian
A.K.A. hypocrite.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
09 May 2004 09:11:21 AM |
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Hello Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
On Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, wrote:
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Yet another Christian Liar For God - THERE HAS BEEN NO FUCKING
EVIDENCE. You make it very personal when you lie about "those who
won't examine the evidence". These personal attacks are sheer
nastiness on your part.
My statement is simply true and it makes you mad. Do you think that
being profane, nasty, and lying makes your position any more credible?
And it's not up to us to look for anything as irrelevant as support
for somebody else's religious beliefs.
Either give this alleged evidence, or stop lying.
So much evidence has already been given in this Alt.religion.christian
newsgroup that if you don't already see it, you never will acknowledge
it.
[snip]
Why are so many Christians so thoughtlessly rude they finish
conversations with atheists, with things like:
In Christ Jesus,
Because that is who we are, where we are, and again, this is
alt.religion.christian, an appropriate place for us to post. If you
are atheist (a position truly lacking in "proof," BTW) you are posting
in the wrong place if you don't like us signing like that.
And "thoughtlessly rude" seems to be your middle name, as well as your
ranking characteristic.
In Christ Jesus,
Christian
.
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| User: "Bill Mechlenburg" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
14 May 2004 02:27:04 PM |
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Can't supply any real evidence can you???
<> wrote in message
news:0oes909fg02kv132pm96r4bf3hipfpko7i@4ax.com...
Hello Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
On Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, wrote:
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of
ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Yet another Christian Liar For God - THERE HAS BEEN NO FUCKING
EVIDENCE. You make it very personal when you lie about "those who
won't examine the evidence". These personal attacks are sheer
nastiness on your part.
My statement is simply true and it makes you mad. Do you think that
being profane, nasty, and lying makes your position any more credible?
And it's not up to us to look for anything as irrelevant as support
for somebody else's religious beliefs.
Either give this alleged evidence, or stop lying.
So much evidence has already been given in this Alt.religion.christian
newsgroup that if you don't already see it, you never will acknowledge
it.
[snip]
Why are so many Christians so thoughtlessly rude they finish
conversations with atheists, with things like:
In Christ Jesus,
Because that is who we are, where we are, and again, this is
alt.religion.christian, an appropriate place for us to post. If you
are atheist (a position truly lacking in "proof," BTW) you are posting
in the wrong place if you don't like us signing like that.
And "thoughtlessly rude" seems to be your middle name, as well as your
ranking characteristic.
In Christ Jesus,
Christian
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
09 May 2004 05:09:49 PM |
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On Sun, 09 May 2004 08:11:21 -0600, wrote:
Hello Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
On Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, wrote:
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Yet another Christian Liar For God - THERE HAS BEEN NO FUCKING
EVIDENCE. You make it very personal when you lie about "those who
won't examine the evidence". These personal attacks are sheer
nastiness on your part.
My statement is simply true and it makes you mad. Do you think that
being profane, nasty, and lying makes your position any more credible?
The only lies here are yours. YOU lied about "those who won't examine
the evidence". WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE?
And it's not up to us to look for anything as irrelevant as support
for somebody else's religious beliefs.
Either give this alleged evidence, or stop lying.
So much evidence has already been given in this Alt.religion.christian
newsgroup that if you don't already see it, you never will acknowledge
it.
Stop lying.
There has been no evidence to examine. There is no "won't" about it,
liar.
[snip]
Why are so many Christians so thoughtlessly rude they finish
conversations with atheists, with things like:
In Christ Jesus,
Because that is who we are, where we are, and again, this is
alt.religion.christian, an appropriate place for us to post. If you
THIS IS ALSO ALT. ATHEISM. Learn how cross-posting works.
are atheist (a position truly lacking in "proof," BTW) you are posting
in the wrong place if you don't like us signing like that.
Yet another of your lies, liar. WE HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE. We're merely
people who aren't any kind of theist. Your particular theism is just
one of hundreds, no matter how seriously you take it.
And you need to check your headers to see where you are posting to.
And "thoughtlessly rude" seems to be your middle name, as well as your
ranking characteristic.
Yet another of your lies.
In Christ Jesus,
I hope you're wearing a condom because sodomising 2000 year old
corpses isn't good for your health,
Christian
Hypocrite.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
12 May 2004 03:34:01 PM |
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Hello Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
On Sun, 09 May 2004 08:11:21 -0600, wrote:
Hello Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
On Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, wrote:
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Yet another Christian Liar For God - THERE HAS BEEN NO FUCKING
EVIDENCE. You make it very personal when you lie about "those who
won't examine the evidence". These personal attacks are sheer
nastiness on your part.
My statement is simply true and it makes you mad. Do you think that
being profane, nasty, and lying makes your position any more credible?
The only lies here are yours. YOU lied about "those who won't examine
the evidence". WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE?
More profane and nasty? Hmmm. It tells us more about you yet! You
don't want the evidence to be there, so you are nasty and profane.
Your position is pathetic.
And it's not up to us to look for anything as irrelevant as support
for somebody else's religious beliefs.
Either give this alleged evidence, or stop lying.
So much evidence has already been given in this Alt.religion.christian
newsgroup that if you don't already see it, you never will acknowledge
it.
Stop lying.
First I would have to start lying, and I won't do that.
There has been no evidence to examine. There is no "won't" about it,
liar.
[snip]
Why are so many Christians so thoughtlessly rude they finish
conversations with atheists, with things like:
In Christ Jesus,
Because that is who we are, where we are, and again, this is
alt.religion.christian, an appropriate place for us to post. If you
THIS IS ALSO ALT. ATHEISM. Learn how cross-posting works.
If you cross-post to alt.religion.christian, you need to think it out
a bit and expect CHRISTIANS to respond to you without your feelings
automatically being hurt. Otherwise, don't start such a thread, or
don't respond to it.
are atheist (a position truly lacking in "proof," BTW) you are posting
in the wrong place if you don't like us signing like that.
Yet another of your lies, liar. WE HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE. We're merely
people who aren't any kind of theist. Your particular theism is just
one of hundreds, no matter how seriously you take it.
Atheism means literally "no God," and if you are a true atheist, you
are by definition saying that God does NOT EXIST AT ALL. Otherwise
you may be a nontheist, but not an atheist.
And you need to check your headers to see where you are posting to.
I am responding to the posts of others, not originating the thread.
And a true atheist needs to prove that God is not there.
And "thoughtlessly rude" seems to be your middle name, as well as your
ranking characteristic.
Yet another of your lies.
Yah yah. Go ahead, call names like a schoolchild. I teach them.
In Christ Jesus,
I hope you're wearing a condom because sodomising 2000 year old
corpses isn't good for your health,
I wouldn't know. I don't follow your practices.
Christian
.
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| User: "TCS" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
12 May 2004 03:41:35 PM |
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 14:34:01 -0600, <> wrote:
Atheism means literally "no God," and if you are a true atheist, you
are by definition saying that God does NOT EXIST AT ALL. Otherwise
you may be a nontheist, but not an atheist.
quit lying
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
12 May 2004 05:15:03 PM |
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 15:41:35 -0500, TCS
<The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 May 2004 14:34:01 -0600, <> wrote:
Atheism means literally "no God," and if you are a true atheist, you
are by definition saying that God does NOT EXIST AT ALL. Otherwise
you may be a nontheist, but not an atheist.
quit lying
He's a Christian. What do you expect? By their fruits do we know them.
.
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| User: "TCS" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
12 May 2004 05:22:31 PM |
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:15:03 GMT, Christopher A Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 May 2004 15:41:35 -0500, TCS
<The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 May 2004 14:34:01 -0600, <> wrote:
Atheism means literally "no God," and if you are a true atheist, you
are by definition saying that God does NOT EXIST AT ALL. Otherwise
you may be a nontheist, but not an atheist.
quit lying
He's a Christian. What do you expect? By their fruits do we know them.
Yup. He's been lying to himself for so long that he can't tell truth from
a lie. His idea of truth is defined by what is in his stoneage book of
fairy tales and by what his preacher babbles at him.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
12 May 2004 03:56:07 PM |
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 14:34:01 -0600, wrote:
Hello Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
On Sun, 09 May 2004 08:11:21 -0600, wrote:
Hello Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
On Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, wrote:
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Yet another Christian Liar For God - THERE HAS BEEN NO FUCKING
EVIDENCE. You make it very personal when you lie about "those who
won't examine the evidence". These personal attacks are sheer
nastiness on your part.
My statement is simply true and it makes you mad. Do you think that
being profane, nasty, and lying makes your position any more credible?
The only lies here are yours. YOU lied about "those who won't examine
the evidence". WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE?
More profane and nasty? Hmmm. It tells us more about you yet! You
don't want the evidence to be there, so you are nasty and profane.
Your position is pathetic.
It isn't a matter of wanting or not wanting the evidence to be there.
It isn't there. There is no objective evidence for the existence of
any gods, the Christian one or otherwise. If you feel that statement
is in error, then feel free to present any such objective evidence you
may have in your possession.
Please note, however, that the key word is *objective.*
And it's not up to us to look for anything as irrelevant as support
for somebody else's religious beliefs.
Either give this alleged evidence, or stop lying.
So much evidence has already been given in this Alt.religion.christian
newsgroup that if you don't already see it, you never will acknowledge
it.
Stop lying.
First I would have to start lying, and I won't do that.
You lie to yourself every time you pray to your imaginary friend.
There has been no evidence to examine. There is no "won't" about it,
liar.
[snip]
Why are so many Christians so thoughtlessly rude they finish
conversations with atheists, with things like:
In Christ Jesus,
Because that is who we are, where we are, and again, this is
alt.religion.christian, an appropriate place for us to post. If you
THIS IS ALSO ALT. ATHEISM. Learn how cross-posting works.
If you cross-post to alt.religion.christian, you need to think it out
a bit and expect CHRISTIANS to respond to you without your feelings
automatically being hurt. Otherwise, don't start such a thread, or
don't respond to it.
We didn't start it.
are atheist (a position truly lacking in "proof," BTW) you are posting
in the wrong place if you don't like us signing like that.
Yet another of your lies, liar. WE HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE. We're merely
people who aren't any kind of theist. Your particular theism is just
one of hundreds, no matter how seriously you take it.
Atheism means literally "no God," and if you are a true atheist, you
are by definition saying that God does NOT EXIST AT ALL. Otherwise
you may be a nontheist, but not an atheist.
BZZZZTTTT!!! Sorry, wrong answer, but thanks for playing. We don't try
to tell Christians what a Christian is, so don't try to tell atheists
what an atheist is. An atheist is simply a person who has no belief
in gods. Period. Whether that's an active belief that god(s) do not
exist or a passive lack of belief that god(s) do exist makes no
difference.
And you need to check your headers to see where you are posting to.
I am responding to the posts of others, not originating the thread.
And a true atheist needs to prove that God is not there.
BZZZT!!! Another wrong answer. The burden of proof is on the positive
claimant. That's you, Sparky. It's up to you to prove your deity
exists, not up to us to prove he doesn't. Atheists have nothing to
prove because we're not making any claims of our own. We're just
saying we see no logical reason to believe yours.
And "thoughtlessly rude" seems to be your middle name, as well as your
ranking characteristic.
Yet another of your lies.
Yah yah. Go ahead, call names like a schoolchild. I teach them.
Little wonder, then, that our educational system is in shambles.
In Christ Jesus,
I hope you're wearing a condom because sodomising 2000 year old
corpses isn't good for your health,
I wouldn't know. I don't follow your practices.
Perhaps you should. It's a wonderfully satisfying thing to be free
from the chains of superstition. Pity you'll never know.
Christian
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
12 May 2004 05:14:29 PM |
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 14:34:01 -0600, wrote:
Hello Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
On Sun, 09 May 2004 08:11:21 -0600, wrote:
Hello Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
On Sat, 08 May 2004 11:56:28 -0600, wrote:
Hello "Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
For those who won't examine the evidence, it is true that there is no
"objective evidence" of anything.
Yet another Christian Liar For God - THERE HAS BEEN NO FUCKING
EVIDENCE. You make it very personal when you lie about "those who
won't examine the evidence". These personal attacks are sheer
nastiness on your part.
My statement is simply true and it makes you mad. Do you think that
being profane, nasty, and lying makes your position any more credible?
The nastiness was yours, hypocrite - when you lied about "those who
won't examine the evidence".
But it's apparently all right when you hypocrites do it.
The only lies here are yours. YOU lied about "those who won't examine
the evidence". WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE?
More profane and nasty? Hmmm. It tells us more about you yet! You
don't want the evidence to be there, so you are nasty and profane.
Your position is pathetic.
Still lying, liar?
And it's not up to us to look for anything as irrelevant as support
for somebody else's religious beliefs.
Either give this alleged evidence, or stop lying.
So much evidence has already been given in this Alt.religion.christian
newsgroup that if you don't already see it, you never will acknowledge
it.
Which was an outright lie - and you know it, liar.
Stop lying.
First I would have to start lying, and I won't do that.
Another of your lies.
What is it with you sanctimonious, hypocrite, liars?
There has been no evidence to examine. There is no "won't" about it,
liar.
SO EITHER PROVIDE IT, OR SHUT UP. Preferably the latter when you
realise you have none.
[snip]
Why are so many Christians so thoughtlessly rude they finish
conversations with atheists, with things like:
In Christ Jesus,
Because that is who we are, where we are, and again, this is
alt.religion.christian, an appropriate place for us to post. If you
THIS IS ALSO ALT. ATHEISM. Learn how cross-posting works.
If you cross-post to alt.religion.christian, you need to think it out
a bit and expect CHRISTIANS to respond to you without your feelings
automatically being hurt. Otherwise, don't start such a thread, or
don't respond to it.
More sanctimonious hypocrisy. If you hadn't lied about "those who
won't examine the evidence" on alt.atheism, I would not have seen it
and respond.
YOU CROSS-POSTED TO ALT.ATHEISM.
YOU NEED TO THINK IT OUT A BIT, YOURSELF. If you can even think.
are atheist (a position truly lacking in "proof," BTW) you are posting
in the wrong place if you don't like us signing like that.
Yet another of your lies, liar. WE HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE. We're merely
people who aren't any kind of theist. Your particular theism is just
one of hundreds, no matter how seriously you take it.
Atheism means literally "no God," and if you are a true atheist, you
are by definition saying that God does NOT EXIST AT ALL. Otherwise
you may be a nontheist, but not an atheist.
Stop lying, liar. All it means to be atheist, is not to be theist.
The world doesn't revolve around your religion's ridiculous
assertions, nor can we be described around your religion's premises
which don't even apply outside it.
And you need to check your headers to see where you are posting to.
I am responding to the posts of others, not originating the thread.
And a true atheist needs to prove that God is not there.
Are you really this stupid, or just pretending?
Why is it so hard for you to grasp just how irrelevant your
inside-the-religion belief-objects are to people outside it?
And "thoughtlessly rude" seems to be your middle name, as well as your
ranking characteristic.
Yet another of your lies.
Yah yah. Go ahead, call names like a schoolchild. I teach them.
I'm not calling anybody names. Just calling a liar a liar for lying.
As soon as you did that it got very personal. But then you're a
typically sanctimonious hypocrite who imagines he gets to tell
atheists what our position "really" is, and whines when he is treated
equally disrespectfully.
In Christ Jesus,
I hope you're wearing a condom because sodomising 2000 year old
corpses isn't good for your health,
I wouldn't know. I don't follow your practices.
You're the one who said you were in him. He's been dead (if he even
existed) for two millennia. I just took your stupid cliche literally.
If you can't cope with that, don't say such stupid and disrespectful
things yourself.
Christian
Hypocrite.
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
07 May 2004 07:22:17 PM |
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"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
(snip)
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is
the correct one?
That's an easy question to answer. None of them!
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Family Man" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
07 May 2004 08:45:04 PM |
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"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94E2CFC4CC57Dwodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
(snip)
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is
the correct one?
That's an easy question to answer. None of them!
Everyone is an Atheist. Some people just believe in 1 god more than other
people.
.
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| User: "a" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 08:56:13 AM |
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"Family Man" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
Everyone is an Atheist. Some people just believe in 1 god more than other
people.
Everyone is a theist. Some people just believe in 1 god less than
other people.
.
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| User: "Family Man" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 04:17:58 PM |
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"a" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:90qp90dqgu39go623lalrit3fsobbqb4ut@4ax.com...
"Family Man" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
Everyone is an Atheist. Some people just believe in 1 god more than other
people.
Everyone is a theist. Some people just believe in 1 god less than
other people.
Is the glass half empty, or half full?
.
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| User: "Mushinronsha" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 08:17:58 PM |
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Family Man wrote:
"a" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:90qp90dqgu39go623lalrit3fsobbqb4ut@4ax.com...
"Family Man" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
Everyone is an Atheist. Some people just believe in 1 god more than other
people.
Everyone is a theist. Some people just believe in 1 god less than
other people.
Is the glass half empty, or half full?
The glass is too big.
Mushy
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 09:22:41 AM |
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On Sat, 08 May 2004 13:56:13 GMT, a <a@b.com> wrote:
"Family Man" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
Everyone is an Atheist. Some people just believe in 1 god more than other
people.
Everyone is a theist. Some people just believe in 1 god less than
other people.
Don't be so stupid.
You don't believe in several hundred dties. We don't believe in one
more.
YOU believe in a deity. We don't believe in any of them.
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 12:33:30 PM |
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Woden wrote:
"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
(snip)
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is
the correct one?
That's an easy question to answer. None of them!
But really, how closely have you examined the claims of the Easter Bunny?
--
"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun
in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to
Canada. So I chose to better myself and learn to fly airplanes."
- George W. Bush May 1984 to the Houston Chronicle
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Andrew W" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 04:21:32 PM |
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"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
God is claimed to be all good. Why does he let man suffer from thousands
of
painful and debilitating illnesses? Some have said this is punishment for
mans sins. If this true, why does the Pope and Rev. Billy Graham suffer
from
painful and debilitating disease? Why are children born with serious and
painful disfigurements and birth defects before they have ever had a
chance
to sin?
Also, women commit much less crimes and acts of indecency than men and are
more prayerful, and yet they suffer equally if not more than men.
According to christian logic, atheists and sex offenders etc. should be the
only ones suffering, or at least suffering more than christians but they
aren't.
--
Andrew Werner.
The golden rule regarding food: If it smells funny then throw the whole lot
out rather than get sick. This should also be the golden rule regarding the
use of the bible.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 05:43:38 AM |
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"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is the
correct one?
Who gives a ***** ?
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 01:00:25 PM |
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Hello "Jez" <iced_spear@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is the
correct one?
Who gives a ***** ?
You really sound like an idiot. Do you drive a truck with "them nakid
ladies" on the mudflaps too?
Sheesh! Watan idiot!
Christian
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 06:36:11 PM |
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<christian@velocitus.net> wrote in message
news:108q901klis3c1lguoke8cntmak2e3ic99@4ax.com...
Hello "Jez" <iced_spear@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :
"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is
the
correct one?
Who gives a ***** ?
You really sound like an idiot.
Thank you ! I do try.
But this is alt.atheism.
Do you drive a truck with "them nakid
ladies" on the mudflaps too?
Nope. Don't drive.
Sheesh! Watan idiot!
Keep the English lessons going.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 04:50:26 PM |
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"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
Then you cannot believe that ANY writings at all are testimonies of history
or otherwise.
cont
God is claimed to be all powerful and creator of the heavens and the earth
and every thing in it.
Why did God use dozens of errant men to write the Bible hundreds of years
after the death of Jesus?
First of all MOST of the books of the Bible were written BEFORE Christ and
only the NEW testament was written immediately afterwards.
cont
God is claimed to be all good. Why does he let man suffer from thousands
of
painful and debilitating illnesses? Some have said this is punishment for
mans sins.
Because of sin, evil has come into the world, and therefore because MAN
CHOOSES sin and evil, is why afflictions occur.
cont
If this true, why does the Pope and Rev. Billy Graham suffer from
painful and debilitating disease?
The Pope is a BLASPHEMER and Billy Graham is a false teacher, neither of
them truly follow and walk in the ways of God.
cont
Why are children born with serious and
painful disfigurements and birth defects before they have ever had a
chance
to sin?
Because each soul that in placed in a human, has lived another life or
multiple lives on the earth. It is called resurrection or regeneration or as
the eastern religions call it, reincarnation. Thus each soul suffers
affliction from the sins of their previous lives, as well as each still
given opportunity to repent from their sins, believe and OBEY Christ, and
walk in the ways of God, for not only their physical healing, but spiritual
and emotional as well.
cont
Why did not God himself tell the whole world directly about his
expectations of man and why did he not do this when man first appeared on
earth instead of waiting 100,000 years? Why did God not tell his story to
the whole world instead of just a small population in the Middle East?
There is no objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of any God.
God told a few, who told the rest, and then those testimonies were compiled
and written down for you to KNOW in the Bible. Adam KNEW the requirements of
God and passed it down to his sons and subsequent generations thereafter.
And if you would believe in Christ and DO as HE said, then you would receive
the Holy Spirit of truth, and HE would provide for you the evidence in His
manifestation, wisdom, knowledge and power that the Bible contains the Word
of GOD.
cont
There is NO objective evidence that "Jesus" was Gods son. In fact there is
NO objective evidence that God exists much less that he has a son.
ALL that exists is evidence that God exists, and if you require evidence
that Jesus existed, then you must require evidence that Caesar existed,
Cleopatra existed, Plato, Socrates, or anyone in history existed, if you
refuse to believe the historical accounts of Christ life, then you must also
disbelieve the historical accounts of their lives as well.
cont
Why would Jesus have to descend to earth and be cruelly killed on a cross
to
atone for man's sins? Why couldn't God just forgive these sins without
this
grotesque arrangement of Jesus suffering on a cross?
Because, sin caused DEATH to enter the world, then to overcome death and
sins, a LIFE must be given, and what MORE can God give mankind for the
opportunity to be forgiven of sins, then HIS OWN LIFE, which is the ULTIMATE
sacrifice. Thus believing in Christ, who gave His life, to overcome sin and
death, provides you the opportunity to be forgiven of sins, and give you
ETERNAL life.
cont
Why would God wait almost 100,000 years after man was on earth to send his
son down to save man? God supposedly created the universe and man. Why did
God create man to be sinful and now have to save him? And save him from
what
God himself created!
It was 4,000 years, not 100,000. When the earth began and Adam sinned, and
brought death to the earth, then life was required for atonement. Under the
Old covenant, an animal sacrifice was required, as man was to give the life
of the best of their flock, proving to God, their sincerity and devotion to
be forgiven of sins. Then after 4000 years, God sent His own Son, to BE the
ULTIMATE sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, and those who believe on Him,
can be forgiven of sins. God created man, and gave all of His creation, FREE
WILL and choice. It is just easier to choose evil than it is good, because
when sin came to the earth, Satan became ruler over the earth and his
influence and temptation were more easy to give into, then to be good and
righteous, which is more valuable. Mankind tends to follow others, rather
then be unique, and thus when the majority chooses evil and sin, then it is
easier to follow in those footsteps, rather than suffer the persecution,
denial, mockery and contempt of the majority. So if man is sinful, it is
because of his own choice to be so. Through Christ man is saved from eternal
damnation into hell.
cont
If there is a God he must be a cruel brutal barbarian.
No, men WITHOUT God are the cruel ones, for they CHOOSE evil and cause all
of the horrors, sufferings, and afflictions that mankind endures.
cont
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is the
correct one?
There are thousands of beliefs, but ONLY ONE GOD, who created all. The gods
that other religions worship are NOT GOD, but men have made them gods out of
their own imaginations. There is ONLY ONE way to God and that is through
Jesus Christ, who's life, commands, demands and requirements have been given
in the Bible. So to dismiss the Bible, you are dismissing your own chance to
return to God and be with Him in heaven.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
God is claimed to be all powerful and creator of the heavens and the earth
and every thing in it.
Why did God use dozens of errant men to write the Bible hundreds of years
after the death of Jesus?
God is claimed to be all good. Why does he let man suffer from thousands
of
painful and debilitating illnesses? Some have said this is punishment for
mans sins. If this true, why does the Pope and Rev. Billy Graham suffer
from
painful and debilitating disease? Why are children born with serious and
painful disfigurements and birth defects before they have ever had a
chance
to sin?
Why did not God himself tell the whole world directly about his
expectations of man and why did he not do this when man first appeared on
earth instead of waiting 100,000 years? Why did God not tell his story to
the whole world instead of just a small population in the Middle East?
There is no objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of any God.
There is NO objective evidence that "Jesus" was Gods son. In fact there is
NO objective evidence that God exists much less that he has a son.
Why would Jesus have to descend to earth and be cruelly killed on a cross
to
atone for man's sins? Why couldn't God just forgive these sins without
this
grotesque arrangement of Jesus suffering on a cross?
Why would God wait almost 100,000 years after man was on earth to send his
son down to save man? God supposedly created the universe and man. Why did
God create man to be sinful and now have to save him? And save him from
what
God himself created!
If there is a God he must be a cruel brutal barbarian.
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is the
correct one?
.
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| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian religion |
08 May 2004 10:39:07 PM |
|
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"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:CCcnc.35580$wY.3412@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of
ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
Then you cannot believe that ANY writings at all are testimonies of
history
or otherwise.
Exactly.
History is history.
Live in the present and learn from the present.
cont
God is claimed to be all good. Why does he let man suffer from thousands
of
painful and debilitating illnesses? Some have said this is punishment
for
mans sins.
Because of sin, evil has come into the world, and therefore because MAN
CHOOSES sin and evil, is why afflictions occur.
Women commit much less indiscretions than men and yet they suffer the same
if not more than men.
Same goes for the most holy of christians.
cont
If this true, why does the Pope and Rev. Billy Graham suffer from
painful and debilitating disease?
The Pope is a BLASPHEMER and Billy Graham is a false teacher, neither of
them truly follow and walk in the ways of God.
They will probably say the same thing about you.
So it is with nearly all denominations.
They all have different interpretations of God's will because they're all
using conjecture and extrapolation mixed with bias and prejudice to
determine it.
cont
Why are children born with serious and
painful disfigurements and birth defects before they have ever had a
chance
to sin?
Because each soul that in placed in a human, has lived another life or
multiple lives on the earth. It is called resurrection or regeneration or
as
the eastern religions call it, reincarnation. Thus each soul suffers
It's also called karma.
affliction from the sins of their previous lives, as well as each still
given opportunity to repent from their sins, believe and OBEY Christ, and
walk in the ways of God, for not only their physical healing, but
spiritual
and emotional as well.
According to christianity the only way they can do that is by reading the
bible but if someone is not interested in biblical history then giving them
an extra chance is rather futile. Don't you think?
Are you sure there's no other way to get to know Jesus other than by making
the bible publishers rich?
cont
Why did not God himself tell the whole world directly about his
expectations of man and why did he not do this when man first appeared
on
earth instead of waiting 100,000 years? Why did God not tell his story
to
the whole world instead of just a small population in the Middle East?
There is no objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of any God.
God told a few, who told the rest, and then those testimonies were
compiled
and written down for you to KNOW in the Bible. Adam KNEW the requirements
of
God and passed it down to his sons and subsequent generations thereafter.
And if you would believe in Christ and DO as HE said, then you would
receive
the Holy Spirit of truth, and HE would provide for you the evidence in His
manifestation, wisdom, knowledge and power that the Bible contains the
Word
of GOD.
What if our creator has no requirements and it was mostly made up or
embellished to make the bible the biggest selling book in history?
cont
There is NO objective evidence that "Jesus" was Gods son. In fact there
is
NO objective evidence that God exists much less that he has a son.
ALL that exists is evidence that God exists, and if you require evidence
How do you know that the evidence is pointing to a biblical God and not a
group of terraforming ET's?
that Jesus existed, then you must require evidence that Caesar existed,
Cleopatra existed, Plato, Socrates, or anyone in history existed, if you
refuse to believe the historical accounts of Christ life, then you must
also
disbelieve the historical accounts of their lives as well.
We don't need evidence of them because they're not threatening to throw us
in hell if we don't do what they say.
cont
Why would Jesus have to descend to earth and be cruelly killed on a
cross
to
atone for man's sins? Why couldn't God just forgive these sins without
this
grotesque arrangement of Jesus suffering on a cross?
Because, sin caused DEATH to enter the world, then to overcome death and
sins, a LIFE must be given,
Why must a life be given to overcome death?
Why would a creator need to swap death for life when he has the ability to
create life?
This clearly shows that christianity came from pagan blood sacrifice cults.
Volcano gods required virgins to be thrown into volcanos.
Jesus was the perfect virgin because he supposedly had no sins.
The biblical God could only be made happy by Jesus spilling his own blood
and having himself killed but since Jesus was himself God, the sacrifice was
God's sacrifice to himself. It was a self centred act.
and what MORE can God give mankind for the
opportunity to be forgiven of sins, then HIS OWN LIFE, which is the
ULTIMATE
sacrifice. Thus believing in Christ, who gave His life, to overcome sin
and
death, provides you the opportunity to be forgiven of sins, and give you
ETERNAL life.
But it wasn't a sacrifice of his life because he knew very well that he
would have new life. He actually lost nothing but instead gained glory for
himself while we all continued suffering for another 2000 years.
And now we're all indebted to him whether we like it or not, and all for
what - because two people picked one lousy fruit off a tree which God
disingenuously put right in front of their noses.
cont
Why would God wait almost 100,000 years after man was on earth to send
his
son down to save man? God supposedly created the universe and man. Why
did
God create man to be sinful and now have to save him? And save him from
what
God himself created!
It was 4,000 years, not 100,000. When the earth began and Adam sinned, and
brought death to the earth, then life was required for atonement. Under
the
Old covenant, an animal sacrifice was required, as man was to give the
life
of the best of their flock, proving to God, their sincerity and devotion
to
be forgiven of sins.
But it's the animal that suffers, not the man. Therefore it's the animal's
sacrifice, not the mans sacrifice.
And what did the man do then? He ate the animal of course. No loss there.
They had to kill animals to eat anyway so it was just a pagan ritual which
christianity has merely adapted.
Also, if God is all knowing then he knows a mans heart and mind so why does
the man need to kill an animal to prove himself?
Then after 4000 years, God sent His own Son, to BE the
ULTIMATE sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, and those who believe on
Him,
can be forgiven of sins. God created man, and gave all of His creation,
FREE
WILL and choice.
Yep. Man can choose anything he wants as long as it matches God's
predetermined choice. Otherwise it's burn burn burn.
It is just easier to choose evil than it is good, because
when sin came to the earth, Satan became ruler over the earth and his
If Satan became ruler over the earth then the bible could very well be his
book and not God's. That would explain a lot of things.
influence and temptation were more easy to give into, then to be good and
righteous, which is more valuable.
Mankind tends to follow others, rather then be unique,
Everyone following the bible is a good example of mankind following others.
Everyone filing into church is another good example.
The moment you try to be unique the church condemns you.
and thus when the majority chooses evil and sin, then it is
easier to follow in those footsteps, rather than suffer the persecution,
denial, mockery and contempt of the majority. So if man is sinful, it is
because of his own choice to be so. Through Christ man is saved from
eternal
damnation into hell.
cont
If there is a God he must be a cruel brutal barbarian.
No, men WITHOUT God are the cruel ones, for they CHOOSE evil and cause all
of the horrors, sufferings, and afflictions that mankind endures.
God fearing christians did quite a bit of that themselves up until a few
centuries ago.
They might still be doing it even now only in secret.
cont
There are thousands of Gods, religions and religious beliefs. Which is
the
correct one?
There are thousands of beliefs, but ONLY ONE GOD, who created all.
And of course that must be your God.
The gods
that other religions worship are NOT GOD, but men have made them gods out
of
their own imaginations.
Careful they don't hear you say that.
There is ONLY ONE way to God and that is through
Jesus Christ, who's life, commands, demands and requirements have been
given
in the Bible. So to dismiss the Bible, you are dismissing your own chance
to
return to God and be with Him in heaven.
--
Dore
--
Andrew Werner.
Always trust the one who's searching for the truth.
Never trust the one who claims to possess it. ~ anonymous.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Mechlenburg" |
|
| Title: Re: Christian religion |
14 May 2004 02:54:31 PM |
|
|
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:CCcnc.35580$wY.3412@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
"Bill Mechlenburg" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pAVmc.30363$Ut1.870157@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
There is no proof or objective evidence that these collections of
ancient
documents called the Bible are accurate history. As a minimum they are
abstruse and contain many contradictions.
Then you cannot believe that ANY writings at all are testimonies of
history
or otherwise.
This is a nonsensical statement. There are accurat history and science books
but almost all of relatively recent vintage.
Because one does not believe one book does not mean he can't believe ANY
book. Besides, the Bible is not one book but an assembly of dozens written
over a period of many centuries and contain much pure nonsense.
cont
God is claimed to be all powerful and creator of the heavens and the
earth
and every thing in it.
Why did God use dozens of errant men to write the Bible hundreds of
years
after the death of Jesus?
First of all MOST of the books of the Bible were written BEFORE Christ and
only the NEW testament was written immediately afterwards.
cont
God is claimed to be all good. Why does he let man suffer from thousands
of
painful and debilitating illnesses? Some have said this is punishment
for
mans sins.
Because of sin, evil has come into the world, and therefore because MAN
CHOOSES sin and evil, is why afflictions occur.
cont
If this true, why does the Pope and Rev. Billy Graham suffer from
painful and debilitating disease?
The Pope is a BLASPHEMER and Billy Graham is a false teacher, neither of
them truly follow and walk in the ways of God.
cont
Why are children born with serious and
painful disfigurements and birth defects before they have ever had a
chance
to sin?
Because each soul that in placed in a human, has lived another life or
multiple lives on the earth. It is called resurrection or regeneration or
as
the eastern religions call it, reincarnation. Thus each soul suffers
affliction from the sins of their previous lives, as well as each still
given opportunity to repent from their sins, believe and OBEY Christ, and
walk in the ways of God, for not only their physical healing, but
spiritual
and emotional as well.
Complete unsubstantiated nonsense. What objective EVIDENCE do you have to
substantiate this nonsense?
cont
Why did not God himself tell the whole world directly about his
expectations of man and why did he not do this when man first appeared
on
earth instead of waiting 100,000 years? Why did God not tell his story
to
the whole world instead of just a small population in the Middle East?
There is no objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of any God.
God told a few, who told the rest, and then those testimonies were
compiled
and written down for you to KNOW in the Bible. Adam KNEW the requirements
of
God and passed it down to his sons and subsequent generations thereafter.
And if you would believe in Christ and DO as HE said, then you would
receive
the Holy Spirit of truth, and HE would provide for you the evidence in His
manifestation, wisdom, knowledge and power that the Bible contains the
Word
of GOD.
cont
There is NO objective evidence that "Jesus" was Gods son. In fact there
is
NO objective evidence that God exists much less that he has a son.
ALL that exists is evidence that God exists, and if you require evidence
that Jesus existed, then you must require evidence that Caesar existed,
Cleopatra existed, Plato, Socrates, or anyone in history existed, if you
refuse to believe the historical accounts of Christ life, then you must
also
disbelieve the historical accounts of their lives as well.
cont
Why would Jesus have to descend to earth and be cruelly killed on a
cross
to
atone for man's sins? Why couldn't God just forgive these sins without
this
grotesque arrangement of Jesus suffering on a cross?
Because, sin caused DEATH to enter the world, then to overcome death and
sins, a LIFE must be given, and what MORE can God give mankind for the
opportunity to be forgiven of sins, then HIS OWN LIFE, which is the
ULTIMATE
sacrifice. Thus believing in Christ, who gave His life, to overcome sin
and
death, provides you the opportunity to be forgiven of sins, and give you
ETERNAL life.
Again pure nonsesne. According to your own Bible talesJesus rose from the
dead the day after
his crusification. He is supposedly still living in your heaven. He didn't
give up his life! God
supposedly created man. Why did he create him to sin?
God decided what was a sin. Why would he have to have his son live for 30
years as a carpenter
and them suffer on a cross. God supposedly created all of this. Why didn't
he just forgive these
sins without being a SADDISTIC *****??
cont
Why would God wait almost 100,000 years after man was on earth to send
his
son down to save man? God supposedly created the universe and man. Why
did
God create man to be sinful and now have to | | |
